yep, that is what is so annoying about this entire thing. Not taking how a balance decision effects the class in both areas of the game. With no combat logs to prove the viability of the class. People will just view it as the "nerfed" melee class, and regret or just flat out refuse to bring the class into operations as dps.

Your right, not sure why it linked to there lol. copy and pasted the link right out of the thread. We don't have constructive game design at this point in terms of balancing. Our abilities are being balanced based on a score system, and he said they'll look at it later if it effects Pve. Sounds like pretty "constructive and thought out" game design /sarcasm off

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=237425 Figure I'd just link this thread for my fellow stealth buddies, worth a good laugh.

According to Gabe Amantangelo and his ****ed up "score" system, it must be pretty damn amazing or it'd be buffed. Cause I mean its such a great measurement of abilities after all.

self removing this post

show me the video after 1.1 of a naked op critting for 7k. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be There a pretty geared op critting on a naked jugg. Sure looks like 7k to me alright..... "Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active." And please learn some math. 50x.4=20 Leaving the end result being 30%. Or a 40% nerf to the ability. *edit* and personally I don't give a **** about pvp or what they nerf with it. Just don't be effecting Pve with the damn nerfs when its going to destroy my viability for operations. If he had come out and said "Ops are doing to much damage in pve as well" I wouldn't be ************. He didn't say that, he basically said "F-you pve, we'll worry about it later" And he can get away with it cause no in game metrics, which is why this game didn't launch with combat logs. Because they can't handle balancing the classes in any sort of meaningful way right now. Using some screwed up scoring system based on setups and ease of use, rather then how abilities are used together over long periods of time. Ensuring a more balanced end game when it comes to Pve across all dps specs.

Your right I have no idea how a 40% nerf on my end tree talent will effect my performance in pve....none at all...just go back to the damn corner please. He even *********** said "oh we'll look back at it if it effects pve to much" Can basically boil that down to, we haven't tested pve effects. It was scoring to high on this "pvp scoreing" and thus was nerfed down. This 100% confirms these devs have no idea what the hell they are doing. Some "scoring" system for balancing, G.G.

That has to be the biggest load of crap I have ever heard.

Cause these people are complete idiots who think this. Game hasn't even been out long enough for anyone talking about endgame, to be a fotm reroll.

**** Can't have fotm when the damn game has just been out for a month. idiots And having the dps of the class destroyed for pve, and people leaving the class makes them fotm as well? lol

Annnnnnd again http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be If your being 3 shot by a smuggler or agent. Please start wearing some armor while you pvp

No, its not Removing hidden strike completely off from the talent is all thats needed. For the life of me I can't understand how all you people thinking nerfing our out of stealth damage is some GREAT idea. Which will destroy it for Pve, and most likely kill any sort of pressure you can produce outside of stealth for pvp. You want to nerf the out of stealth damage with the crit bonus change. Then EVERYTHING needs to have its base damage increased. Or its 100% dead for operations

Ah ok you want an accuracy debuff on the target. The way I was understanding you, was you wanted the user of the hidden strike to get an accuracy buff. Which is what was confusing me lol. Was like what good is an accuracy buff for myself going to do

Can I ask what an Accuracy buff for 10 seconds would achieve? I'll agree something needs to be done with the knockdown. Untied and a separate cooldown, removed and something added. Anything Hidden strike shouldn't be the all and one skill it is when specced for the knockdown.

They have already taken a step in earning my respect to a degree. They didn't push 1.1.1 right out the door like most were expecting today. Doesn't mean I agree with the changes they want to do, and doesn't mean I agree with everything this guys post says. Hell the only thing I'll agree on is crit bonus damage being an issue with Hidden strike ONLY from M.K.B. Where he wants to just gut M.K.B. out right with no thought on how it effects Pve.

His idea of just gutting the crit damage bonus for ALL the attacks would castrate the class far far more then biowares proposed changes. Just because someone writes up a 10 page essay doesn’t mean his ideas are great ones.

well I guess were both coming across the wrong way to each other. Good ol mixed internet messages.

I came across as upset? I'm simple saying you have a cloak of shadows type skill to use for cloaking screen. So please don't complain about NOT having the option to have a clean cloaking screen when you have the ability to ensure it happens. How you use evasion is up to you and your play style. But the option is there along with our cleanse for certain dots.

*cough* evasion will remove a lot of effects (refer to "advanced training" skill, gained at level 24)

First lets look at this logically You want to nerf MKB into the ground, without buffing base damage of the abilities. What does this accomplish? You’ll certainly nerf the burst damage, goal achieved. But you’ll also gut the out of stealth damage and be applying no pressure. Can tell you right now healers would just laugh at you, and that’s what you care about is pvp right? Cause every healer I talk to that’s even half way decent agrees, if you survive the opening burst, the Op will never kill me unless he gets back in stealth to reopen. Not to mention you'd destroy the spec even worse then the proposed 20% armor pen loss in Pve that bioware wants to put in. It’s called finesse, you should learn about it. We can agree that MKB is an issue with the crit damage bonus. But how about using said finesse, and nerfing the ability that’s currently on MKB that is the real issue. Without destroying pve viability by blanket nerfing all of MKB’s affected skills. Anyways have fun at school, was an interesting read, don't get me wrong. I just don't agree with you and your logic behind the ideas.

I think your blanket nerf approach to MKB is worse then biowares planned nerfs for pve, which is saying something...lol... Here I'll just copy and paste from the Main thread on this issue "They don't give a crap If they really cared about achieving some sort of balance. They would untie the knockdown from hidden strike so its not an all in one ability. Turn it into an on use ability or something so its more skill based. Hidden strike shouldn't be the one trick pony it currently is. Removing hidden strike off from "Meticulously Kept Blades" and raising hidden strikes base damage. (Meaning the ability will be more controlled in its scaling and hitting consistently. Rather then the out of control damage it can receive from the Crit damage bonus from MKB+surge rating+warzone buff etc) "edit-and I use "out of control damage" lightly as it can no longer truely achieve the levels it was able to pre 1.1" And then not touching acid blades armor pen buff so not killing our out of stealth damage. Maybe even raise all damaging abilities base damage that requires no stealth. To make up for the lower opening damage, allowing the more prolonged fights they desire." But you see I'm coming at this from wanting to keep this spec in tacked for Pve, where you said yourself you don't care how it does in Pve. (Lethality is currently garbage for pve, I'm sorry if you think its a decent spec) Anyways just throwing out ideas other then blanket nerfing just to appease the masses

Lethality is complete garbage for pve, you have no idea what you are talking about.

You know how many people I've seen over the years quit wow because of this method of doing things? To many to count As no matter how much information is presented to them it doesn't change anything. Its nerf to the ground baby, and then years before anything will be addressed if something is under performing. I won't be sticking around for years to finally be able to do true end game in Tor on my op as dps, when we are barely even a month into the game.

Add to that the huge mistake of blanket nerfing for pvp with no regard to how it effects pve.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRtEeMg2YJ4&feature=youtu.be (naked jugg vs concealment op with 403 expertise) Why am I getting nerfed again for pve due to pvp? gg bioware