Am I ahead or behind you on that same list?

I fixed it for you. (GeneralChat) Average _Raid_Leader : Need 10k + dps for raid!!!!!! You do anything less you suck , dont even bother !! (GeneralChat) Average_player : I will go but I do not know my gearscore or dps!!! (GeneralChat) Average _Leader : Shutup and go away newbie (GeneralChat)Average_Leader : Need 10k + dps for raid!!!!!! You do anything less you suck , dont even bother !! And of course this will not include the nightmare mode raid guilds. this of course just refers to PUGS...which is the source of the real issue(mixed abilities, expectations, loot rules, playstyles, min/max..etc).

LOL, as you put it this "latent animosity" will be released. Has no bearing on combt logs AT ALL. It could just as likely be pruple flowers on tython as opposed to yellow. If the community is just waiting to lash out and become evil, it will do so. Combat log has no impact on it as you describe it.

It is already there, they are just not giving it to the players yet. I suspect this is due to huge class imbalances. They are simply stalling until they can direct attention to class balance patches...in my opinion of course.

I in fact have faced exactly what u fear. As have many many players. Enrage timers have caused stress in HM flashpoints.

Like EVERY game it will have these tools. This game already has/will have the game I want..its 3 difficulty modes in operations. You don't sound harsh to me, its ok, I understand you do not get enjoyment from getting better at playing games. I am sure you completely understand that I myself love trying to improve at the things I do, I enjoy using tools to do so. Combat log or no combat log the epeen you fear will be here...it is a game with different levels of mastery. You simply have to choose to play with like minded players and you will have no problem.

Yeah, especially since the lead combat designer is a min/maxer.

Good thing SWTOR is a game...just like all the others.

NO more so than in any other game.

Lucky for you using a combat log is 100% optional.

Thats fine, nothing wrong with it. BUT, when you do so you are inviting the kind of "issues" that are in this thread. You now have to take the good AND bad that comes with those issues if you want to mix abilityies, expectations. loot rules, min/max,...etc. You don't exclude others from using combat logs. Staying confined to your own playstyle IS the best if you are having a miserable experience with things like combat logs and meters...etc. If you have no issues then by all means play with others who have differnent playstyles, abilities,...etc. Play with who you want, when you want....but there is a different set of issues that comes with that. If you cannot except those issues, then playing with like minded players is in fact the best solution. Edit: this is no more a social game than any other game with a group of players.

Yes it does in fact stay confined if people play with like minded players. Don't confuse min/maxing with playing at the highest level(or even being good). I don't call them wannabees at all...in fact I am one of them. I just choose to play with other min/max wanabees at my level, with whom i enjoy playing. However, your right, nothing works perfectly....nothing.

No you missed the point..they are in EVERY GAME. This is in NO WAY different.

Its only really enhanced when you start mixing different levels of play and playstyles. Combat logs will have virtually no negative effect on social aspect of the hardcore min/max crowd that would be found in nightmare modes. The huge impact(socially) comes from mixed playstyles and abilities trying to play together, and the friction that ensues due to knowledge, ability, gaps.

You can apply this to ANY game, so should we take tools away from all other games as well?

Nope I have no other line of argument. Find like minded players and most of these types of issues dissappear. I am glad you can enjoy the game on your terms with a combat log, as you control wther you use it or not. If more people would play(as you do) with like minded players they would enjoy the game so so mcuh more.

You said, you are able to enjoy the game on your terms with a combat log. All I hear now is I dont want other to have it. You had the nerve to call others closed minded...lol. Sounds like you are just arguing to be right now. Makes no sense that you admit you can play and enjoy the game on your terms with out a combat log, yet want to keep it out....just because.

Ok, so what ur saying is is that you can in fact enjoy the game on your terms WITH a combat log and are doing exaclty what the other poster claims...simpy want to keep it out at the expense of others.

My point is what you just described, you have COMPLETE control over. You are under NO circumstances to use a combat log....NONE. You and like minded players are able to enjoy the game 100% on your terms, with like minded players.

I was asking you to elaboraate, since earlier you in fact said playing with others would in fact solve some of it. I was asking you to elaborate on the "most" you responed to later. But yes, I do believe that if you actually group with like minded players and actually play and enjoy the game...it will solve most of your problems. However, I know that most players that play for "fun" as it is put, WANT to play at a certain level(reap the rewards) without actually PLAYING at that level. They want to play at a level that requires certain "things" while they jsut want to play however, whenever, whatever and still be included.

Can you elaborate a bit?

Ahh, ok. So you were just playing devils advocate.

Can you link to where they say a combat log is planned in patch 1.2?

Which part? The part you already agreed with? Or the part where the players just playing for fun want toplay at the highest level without actually playing at that level?

But you and me both know, if you are playing with like minded players most of these problems go away. Problem is most of these players that are opposed to logs and such, WANT to play at a certain level, that requires a different playstyle.