That would be one way to curb it, haven't thought of that before. I believe that's how they balanced this spec in 1.1 by nerfing surge rating returns on critical multipliers.

I certainly hope that is not the case. I was under the impression that in lieu of having Q & A sessions they would be monitoring the forums more reguarly to provide feedback. I honestly am not demanding a change here, although it's obvious I'd like to see one, but what I'm asking for is an explanation to the player base why they are changing certain mechanics of certain classes and how that is accomplishing their vision of balance. I don't think that's unreasonable, but they haven't shown much evidence to assuage our protests about these things before except the explanation of stealth, knockback, and resolve changes. Why not more of that?

I do think that there is an element of lag involved, but it probably can't explain all cases. As a reference for this argument, on my sentinel I've died several times trying to spam Guarded by the Force in a near death situation only to have Guarded activate after I am killed so that I can't use it for another 45s-1.5m. This has been a performance issue with the game for a long while now, but it's been made a bit worse in 1.4, which is probably why it's more pronounced now.

@LightandShade I would believe you except my burns are all resisted when used on an assassin/shadow with an active force shroud/resilience, meaning that they are a force attack. If they were truly a weapon attack, they'd still hit. Go test it and get back to me with an explanation. For clarity's sake, I'm not talking about the DoTs being cleansed when they activate their resistance ability, either; I'm talking landing a cauterize/rupture on an active one and watching up to 5 of the 6 ticks get resisted until the cooldown wears off.

You are being rebutted because you show a lack of decency in your answer. Spouting names doesn't win yourself any fans and defending your actions only worsens your standing. Just because you can post anonymously in this information age shouldn't give you license to shun interpersonal decorum.

I like this thread! It's fun to get away from the whining in the PvP forum once in a while. First off, an idea that stood out to me was that of having a pet class. Sure there are already companions, but it would create another dynamic to have an additional pet running around with a player + companion. Second, things that I would like to see include more weapon choices based on the spec you run. So lets say, for instance, you create a droid class with just 1 AC, for simplicity. It consists of a tank tree, damage tree, and healing tree. In the tank tree, you use any non-lightsaber based melee-ranged weapon; in the damage tree, any 30m range weapon; and in the healing tree, a new group of mainhand short range weapons (10m) like scatterguns or some such. Maybe for the other AC you could mix up the distribution of these weapons, but have the three role trees covered similarly. As a caveat to this discussion, it sure is fun to wish what could be done to this game, but I'm just hoping that it lives to fight another day. Hopefully if they make an expansion with new classes and such, they'll be innovative, allow for customization, and stay true to the story-driven style of play that has kept us around until now.

I really hope you're wrong, but it's true that most of their changes have been made with reasons stowed inside a black box. However, in a 1.4 preview they at least took the time/energy/effort to explained about their upcoming changes to Sages/Sorcs and resolve. It seems logical that they finish explaining what they started and touch on this issue as well.

I am calling for an explanation from the developers who handle class balance to discuss why there was a buff to Focus/Rage trees in the recent patch as well as explaining why the damage from Force Sweep/Smash applies before the animation even begins now rather than after the animation occurs like it did pre-1.4. My concern is that there cannot be any preparation against a move like that with it's current timing mechanism as opposed to the past when there was time to activate available defensive cooldowns like Force Shroud/Resilience or Force Camouflage to counter it. However now, these moves that can potentially do 7000 damage to multiple targets, cost no resource, and be activated more frequently than an already low 15s cooldown used to restrict cannot be prepared for except by guessing when the players will use them. The closest analog to this damage timing mechanism is Death Field/Force in Balance which can only hit 3 targets instead of 5 and does not have a damage ceiling near that of Smash/Force Sweep. I want an explanation of what the developers were thinking because there is no clearly justifiable reason for these changes. Thank you.

Are you sure they don't share a cooldown? That's a BIG bug if they don't.

Hold the line doesn't prevent stuns, but I guess you have a point there with knockbacks. I usually assume it's not going to tick all 4 times, but still getting two people for two ticks is around 8k in one GCD, which is quite respectable. I usually try to save HTL for when I get force slowed or a marauder slow to kite them. So, basically, I use it defensively, rather than offensively. As to the OP's question, I respecced to tactics the day before 1.4 seeing that it was going to get a buff. I don't see myself going back to assault except for fun and a change of pace. The playing field is just more evened out than it used to be and tactics is a lot of fun to play.

Don't get too bogged down in the semantics: they mean at the vendor, not in the inventories of players.

It's like you read my mind, Mr J. I love the cone knockback but I was complaining to guildies last night about how nonsensical the animation is. I was thinking they could make it like a huge roar, that would make a lot more sense. Make it look different than force scream and we're in business. Also, I think that the devs are starting to come through the casualty lines a little stronger, now. I gain a little hope when they release a patch like this where I enjoy the whole gambit of changes. I, for one, will hang around to see if this game can realize its potential because I think they're getting on the right track.

I think that's a great idea, actually. Also, for what it's worth, I played against an 11k merc the other evening meaning he had less than recruit gear on. He was regularly getting hit for 5k by classes that don't normally hit for 5k. So, buck up! You aren't the lowest of the low.

Can we get a commando/merc healer in here to complain about their changes so we can have a complaint about every change made for 1.4 in this thread, please?

I liked chapter 1, the next two weren't incredibly interesting to me. The others I've seen all the way through are the knight and inquisitor. I'm through chapter 2 on the smuggler, currently. The overall best story I would give to knight. The overall best ending I give to inquisitor. The overall best chapter could be trooper or smuggler, chapter 1. Looking forward to seeing the rest!

I'm one who can sense that I've become more cynical in the warzones as I've played them more and more. I usually just rant about how "stupid" or "worthless" the perpetrators are on vent and don't type anything, except for the special individuals who I really can't stand. That being said, I fully support what the OP has said and am working on divorcing myself from being angry at, really what? A game? Not worth it. I think the lowering of the daily requirement by 1 win (2 participations) will actually help difuse some aggression. Part of it is just the thought that you're wasting time fighting in a losing warzone. The less time commitment that it takes to finish that daily can only help mitigate this all the more.

I'm not positive on vital shot, but if the mainhand shot misses on leg shot, you won't root them, even if the off-hand hits. I've seen this first hand on my GS. I'm inclined to believe that's the case for vital shot, too.

Well it seems that the difference between the people who have trouble with force vs the ones who don't is play style and rotation. Let's see some rotations with explanations of priorities from those who don't have issues to help out the community at large.

I think you have to consider the spec, as the OP mentions. Here's my two cents: Annihilation: Crit is very important here because critical bleeds not only heal, but gain bonus surge damage from bleedout. This is a case where you'd want the 30% unbuffed crit so your force critical chance is around 40% buffed. The primary source of damage (bleeds) is amplified greatly by crit for this spec. Carnage: Crit is still important as ever. The better crit chance, then the more devastating a ravage will be after using a gore. You can easily (not really easily, of course) eclipse a 6k hit from the 3rd strike of ravage if it crits. Every ataru hit and off-hand strike has a chance to do extra damage as well from Massacre. The auto-crit attack is not the primary source of damage in this (force scream), whereas everything else benefits tremendously. Rage: I almost want to say that crit doesn't matter at all, but that's an overstatement. Smash is the focal point of this spec, but the next best things are crush and vicious slash. Both would benefit from crit, but much less than smash benefits from power. This is one spec where crit should be there, but I think around 30% force crit chance when buffed is plenty. Power is very important here. That's my take, feel free to disagree.

That's a good point on spec optimization. My hope is to not have to sacrifice AP to get the hit in the interest of timed burst; however, it may not reach it. I'll work on finishing the gear and then try some of your power optimization ideas. In the short term, I suppose I can try the respec and see where I stand. Thanks for the tips!

That's a great point. I'm sure with bloodthirst (inspiration for repubs) and/or the red damage boost candy it wouldn't be so far a stretch. I can't speak for certain on this but I think my best hit with just the red candy was north of 4.8k, so I think I'm fairly close with the bonus 15% from either of those temp buffs. I'm still curious if there's a chance to hit this without outside help in the form of temporary buffs, thoughts on that?

Care to expound a little here? If you've hit 5k, I would love to hear the breakdown of the circumstances. If not, then I'm afraid that not targetting a tank is high on the list of obvious advice.

Heya PTs, this is a general shout out to get some advice to get a vanity 5k hit medal in warzones. I'm a vanguard and posted a similar thread on that forum, but wanted to get your input. Here's the background: My current character is this (should be able to see gear, spec, stats, etc): http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/7ea80818-84d6-4387-9d66-984099d91ace My current range for HiB crits is 3.8-4.4k, on the norm. If I'm taunted, I'll hit a little less, if I get the red buff candy I'll hit for more, but that's obvious. The point here is that I'm still rather shy of the 5k hits yet I do see an occassional PT/VG I play in rateds hit that number. I'm not complaining that I'm not doing good damage, because I still put out good numbers overall. I just want to know what people who are hitting 5k are doing to get it. I ask because I'm close to maxing gear out so there's got to be something more specific than that. Here are my thoughts, I can stand to lose some surge (~80) and, even more so, crit because of the set bonus from the eliminator making up for it. In its place, I'd put power, since that doesn't hard cap. Suggesting that I switch to power augments instead of aim isn't a good boost either as bonus damage would only go up 6 points, and I'd lose about 1.0% crit. In practice, this means swapping out the crit/surge relic with the WH power one. I'll augment the WH pieces when I get them with Advanced Reflex Augment 22. So, any help y'all can offer? Thanks!

Heya VGs, this is a general shout out to get some advice to get a vanity 5k hit medal in warzones. Here's the background: My current character is this (should be able to see gear, spec, stats, etc): http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/7ea80818-84d6-4387-9d66-984099d91ace My current range for HiB crits is 3.8-4.4k, on the norm. If I'm taunted, I'll hit a little less, if I get the red buff candy I'll hit for more, but that's obvious. The point here is that I'm still rather shy of the 5k hits yet I do see some pyros I play in rateds hit that number (don't play other VGs very often). I'm not complaining that I'm not doing good damage, because I still put out good numbers overall. I just want to know what people who are hitting 5k are doing to get it. I ask because I'm close to maxing gear out so there's got to be something more specific than that. Here are my thoughts, I can stand to lose some surge (~80) and, even more so, crit because of the set bonus from the eliminator making up for it. In its place, I'd put power, since that doesn't hard cap. Suggesting that I switch to power augments instead of aim isn't a good boost either as bonus damage would only go up 6 points, and I'd lose about 1.5% crit. In practice, this means swapping out the crit/surge relic with the WH power one. I'll augment the WH pieces when I get them with Advanced Reflex Augment 22. So, any help y'all can offer? Thanks!

You can read some more exhaustive analyses but here are the basic premises of the three trees: Watchman: DoT based. Main moves: Cauterize, Overload Saber, Merciless Slash. Two of the three main moves from this tree would be available to you at level 20, which gives you good opportunity to put out good burn damage from DoTs as well as getting some self-heals from the critical burns. Juyo form greatly synergizes the force-based damage that you'll do (burns) with empowered melee-based damage (merciless slash, master strike, slash, etc.) Combat: weapon damage based. Main moves: Blade Rush, Blade Storm, Precision Slash. You get Ataru form at level 20, but this saber form doesn't see full utility until you can spec additional points beyond level 20. The next two abilities are at levels 30 and 40, so you have to wait to maximize Combat's effectiveness. The strength of this spec is in burst damage that bypasses armor (precision slash), continuous damage from Ataru strikes, and the best mobility specs of the Sentinel trees (including maneuverability and rooting). Focus: force damage based. Main moves: Force exhaustion, Force Sweep, Slash. This spec revolves around developing Singularity stacks and then using automatically criting Force Sweeps. This is a shared tree with Guardians (so also your Juggernaut's Rage tree). This is a great AoE spec in PvE because it does devastating damage from sweep and slash, which while in Zen hits a second target for the same amount of damage and buids focus (if specced to do so). Singularity does not become available until level 25 and is maximized at level 28, but rather hindered until you get force exhuastion at level 40. That's a very brief summary of the specs. So with regard to your level and predicament, I'd recommend switching to Watchman. Once you gain a few more levels, you can see more fully what the two other trees can offer you. But, again, you have greatest access to Watchman at this point.