as ive said plenty of times. i dont play a 20/21 build. i play a 13/28 high output dps build so i know what im on about when it comes to damage. the 31 point builds do not come close to the hybrid for dps output. changing the trees round will do nothing but weaken them further (for damage output.. important part) if those talents where not down ther in the current state the specs would be 100% broken. Lightning would be forced to play cc only and madness would be massivly damage gimped and super static by having a 3second fl channel constntley. moving cc talents up the lightning tree so madness hybrids cant reach them would mean that madness would need a buff to survivability as it would have very little, and lightning would need a boost to damage as it would also be lacking. also at present sorcs do already have to chose if they want cc or burst/dps as to get bindings and backlash requires a shift of 7 points between specs already.

bold part = fix resolve then. dont start messing with a class because resolve is crap/not working properly and they are horrible. high end 31point talents are weak for sorcs and for madness its pathetic. "surplus of great talents" again your looking at cc. try looking at flat out damage output instead. if you force ppl into 31 point builds the output drops aswell as the survival making the whole AC weaker. they are also subpar compared to all other 31point dps specs in game. there is a reason why near all dps sorcs raid pve in hybrid builds. (a basic 3 point shift into lightning from madness) also doesnt help that alacrity doesnt work properly atm.

healing already has a 30% debuff being applied in WZ and possibly a higher one coming too. i dont have issues with healers in wz, but then i dont solo them i normaly yell "KILL THAT MOFO <NAME> ITS A HEALER" and watch half the team insta switch and gib said healer in seconds. If your trying to solo a healer your doing it wrong unfortunatly. if two of you cant kill a healer and its not a smugler/ia healer then your definatly doing something wrong

yet that "one specific type of spec" doesnt do that much damage and when pressured has to become mobile to stay alive. its built solely around surviving. Yes it can be anoying BUT it CAN easily be locked out of the game as ive just done to a guildy of mine. i also dont get you 4.5seconds cd idea here or are you referring to spam bubbling other players? in which case your damage output is heavily dropped due to playing utility mode and in itself can cause heavy issues if not done correctly due to resolve filling up very fast. At this point in the gaame things that should be higher priority to change are issues with resolve being a fail and the fact roots don't work with it. The big thing and the very big thing people also forget here. is these two talents (bindings and backlash) are pretty important for sorc leveling. Survivability of the class i low and when leveling its not always an option to turn your *** and run with many mobs about. Changing tier of talent of such could just completely destroy any sort of moderatly ok leveling experience of a sorc as it is already heavily dependant on keeping companions geared as it is. Personally i couldnt care for the cc spec. i dont use it as its not my role. my role is to get attention and force ppl to atack me or die so my team mates can get objectives. Criplling the main utility based play of the spec just breaks it, especially for lightning which is already weak as it is and would require a damage buff to compensate. oh you can also have backlash not stunning when force charge doesn't root AND interupt casts and you dont just **** off and vanish with 1k hp left to re open into another cc

then buff the 31point specs which are horrible. Thats the issue. hybrids are the only good builds for dps sorcs. As has been said in the thread a million times backlash is only effective against certain classes. Mainly warriors and OPs which is why the op is crying so hard and i guess your an OP too. Taking a full cc spec does not necessarily make a good build for warzones for a multitude of already mentioned reasons in the thread. Most other Classes ACs have good or relativley good 31point builds. Sorcs dont. the fact a hybrid spec is better than said 31point builds even in a flat out pve dps situation says it all. Moving certain survival talents into higher tiers not only destroys every viable pvp spec but also makes the class very weak unless they play a specific build. Which shouldnt be the case. All that will happen in that situation is that specific build will be damage buffed heavily to compensate for the loss resulting in more qq from people like the OP. The damage of a full cc spect sorc is not that good. is subpar at best and relies on the sorc being able to run away fast and heal or dps from a large gap. mechanisms that are easily prevented in many ways. BUT as always the OP is STILL arguing that sorcs should be nerfed rather than roots being put onto the resolve bar.. but wait. then that would affect hum aswell with his multiple *********** force charges so he wont want that. a lot of ACs have knockbacks which emcompase either a root or a slow. warriors themself have force push which has a knockdown animation. Backlash which is his main qq point because it affects HIS class in pvp already tier 4 and for a sorc to reach it they drop a lot of damage modification talents so your losing 8-10% damage output from dots. the one thing a madness build sorc needs to kill. It might not look a lot but an 8% damage drop can makea huge difference when you have ppl bashing on your head and your trying to kill someone. oh fyi.. my other guilds premade with the cc build sorc in.. my group just destoyed them. you know why? we locked the sorc out of the game. not exactly hard to do.

the reason i cant take it serious is this "balanced with other ACs" one possible hybrid build being cc heavy isnt a reason to nerf a whole AC and every constructive post made seems to get argued against. i could make a list of many abilities that are ridiculusly OP in game atm but its two months old and the devs are the ones with the figures. not us. i could go in depth into the newly updated first post but it will likely just be ignored like all other posts which work into whats been posted

The big issue and the reason why the whole topic is flawed is that there is NO standard "must use" hybrid build. I personaly use a high dps build. my role in premade is to cause havok and hurt people. This requires very good safe positioning as im a 100% glass cannon. another premade in my guild uses the super cc spec and his job is to die to keep the ball carrier moving or to tag an objective. the role the sorc plays is intrumental to spec so you cant just go blanket nerfing without considering the major impact. every class can be hugely gamebreaking in one way or another.. oh and OP./ .your claiming a sorc locking down 6 players in a blind is unbalanced. maraurders can do just that aswell, execpt their version of said cc lasts 8 seconds. Or maybee we should talk chain forrce charges which interupt and root you? there are plenty of such broken mechanisms in the game and a sorc dropping a lot of damage and effectivly playing suicide sorc for the sake of dps only really works in a well coordinated premade. and against other premades they should know how to deal with such instances anyway (apoligies on spellnig. tired and cba correcting mistakes)

meanwhile on my server our guild keeps on growing with more and more new players. and the republic side keeps getting stronger and stronger..

so you would rather have wow pvp where ppl get globaled and droped in seconds?

would be impressive considering we only have 600 force 1 bubble and game over for the sorc.. as always the intelligence of suggestions is astounding

again read my next post after that. the ~"small balancing tweaks" that 90% of the player base propose WILL break the class or result in them being buffed elsewhere

at low level you will destroy **** as a lot of classes dont get their usefull talents till much later and sorcs have good baseline dmg. on the other hand if ppl are allowing you to do that damage thats not you being op thats them being bad. its very easy to limit sorc damage by knowing how to play and how they work. If your kiting lvl40-49s then they really are bad. Force slow may be baseline but it does only have a 50% uptime. the rest you need to cast fl to keep them slowed and considering most classes have enough interupts and gap closers/stealth vanishes to avoid it there is no real reason for them to complain. wait till you face some good platers in 50 pvp and watch how fast they tunnel you down. then watch how you die in a stun whislt you cant do anything about it.

the problem is. the adjustments it needs vs the adjustments the qqers on the forum call for are very different things.

your logic is 100% wrong. basicly your calling for a nerf to one class in replace of BioWare developers doing their job. what about jedi roots, sith warrior roots, sniper roots.. i can go on forever. a "small balancing tweak" wont balance anything with sorcs. it will break them completely. also.. they havnt even hinted at a sorc nef either.. your point is mute

thats too simple.. we should all shout qq for nerf instead

currently being camped by about 50 reps on ilum atm. Therefore by your logic Reps ruin pvp. and considering you guys only play when your winning i think you have no right to make stupid comments

if you cant 1v1 a sorc you must be bad. there are few classes that cant

they are only op in 2 situations 1) in groups of them 2) vs bads im guessing 99% of the qq comes from the second group

i generally dont even look at armour values considering for sorcs its pathetic. either way the ops maths is horrendous. so much "over a whole game" being added in when a tank needs cds in the SHORT term which they have and not "over a a superlong period of time" i could probably make the same stupid calculations about any class spec in any mmo on those lines. OP is doing nothing more than trying to justify jumping on the bandwagon calling for a nerf.

actually it is. a full lightning 31pointer still has acess to insta cl + the hard hitting free crit. madness maybe not so much sorcs strength is utilising medeocre damage with good survival and you have to sacrifice one for the other. AND NO! SORCS SPAMMING AOE TO DO HIGH DMG IN WARZONES DOES NOT = HIGH DAMAGE OUTPUT!

Erm. sorcs have no such damage reduction. Your clearly combining 2 AC into one. stop making excuses to qq

ive said this about 4billion times in this thread and the OP ignores it every time and has dragged it out over 100 pages.

gearing being based on "merit" like in wow will be a major disaster as i see it and cause nothing but the same pvp imbalances that wow has. Time invested should = reward. which atm it doesn't they could make something like a mini item that needs 4 mini items to make 1 bm token and then have aflat spawn of 1mini item per bag. at least that way every 4 bags you know you will get 1 token. instead of now where its completly random

you mean those duels where a sorc cant even go to max range without the duel cancelling from range.. yeh ok. Also if youd "done enough pvp" you would know that sorc cc and damage doesn't blow anyone up. YES several sorcs together blow **** to the sky. one on their own, not so much. Also. classes are not balanced round 1v1 so dueling gives no reliable data. as has been said before sorc burst is lacking unless your runing a high surge lightning 31 pointer. sustained dmg on the other hand is good. IF you allow a madness sorc to get several wrath procs then its a l2p issue. lock out force lightning and wrath is gone. then CL is gone leaving only dots. in the spec shown by the OP they will be weakewr than average and you should have no issue beating them as the cc will fill resolve and you have cc yourself. in a wz if im left alone i hurt people. and i hurt bad. what generally happens is i face people who are not bad and who tunnel the crap out of me at first sight removing any issue from the immediate combat. BUT as said above. i only get that high damage through being able to spam FL. lock that down and i dont get CL out. leaving me with a dot spread + death field every 15seconds.

they don't have EVERYTHING at all. not even close. They also dont have the best escape mechanisms. They have 1 escape mechanism that's easily stopped by anyone with a brain not to mention that vanish, force cloak are by far better escapes. but as you clearly are not prepared to listen to what people say and just argue with random ppl you think you can win against i thin im just going to give up on you and report you for endless trolling