Just going to second what Kunitsukami said. I'm also going to change it a bit to support some of my arguments. Is 33 people in the Republic Fleet, during prime time, a healthy MMO server? Of those 33 people 11 are level 50. Knowing 33 are in the fleet imagine how many are spread out across the various quest worlds. Do you think you can do any flashpoints? Do you think you can do any of the heroic + side quests? Do you think you could field any sort of weekly or daily raid? How long do you think a warzone would take to start? Once the warzone starts do you actually think you will field a full group of 8 or do you think it will start with uneven teams and turn into a loss? Low populated servers ARE damaging the game. It doesn't matter if the server you play on is happening or not. A majority of the remaining servers are under utilized as it relates to hardware capacity and subscribers both of which cost BioWare money. It costs them money when people leave faster than those joining and it costs them money in the HVAC / data center space with under utilized hardware. You do the math.

Thread split again. That should tell you something right there. This is what I posted on Friday which I'll continue again here because people still tie the two together. The subscribers posting in this thread asking for server merges to happen sooner rather than later ARE NOT saying the game is dead... We are saying that there are "TOO" many servers with only a handful being at, or near, full capacity. And while we admit those servers are seeing a population influx or gain it is because new people see the full servers and move there first. Or that they are growing because word got around that they are happening servers. Both of which "appear" to be a growing environment. Those of us left behind on the other servers which are low or lower have a 180 degree different opinion of how the game is being enjoyed. To be perfectly Frank, the game isn't enjoyable at all which leaves us with a few options. Reroll to a higher populated server and start over, or stop playing. Most agree waiting isn't a option because the longer you wait the quicker you find something else to fill the void. Again, the reason for the importance of priority for merging. 1. OP's thread title is "Server population is dropping..." 2. We know there is a "Faction" imbalance which favors Imperial side but that really isn't something BioWare can easily fix, even if they should anyway 3. There are too many servers or so it would appear 4. There are servers that are impacted more than others both in population and faction 5. Lower populated servers impact economy, market items, groups, raids, and PvP/WZ's 6. Some people chose to move on their own 7. Some people can't due to time or character investment (or stubborn) 8. The Fatman seems to be the go-forward peoples choice (10 minute queue last night for me) 9. LFG tool won't address 1 - 9 but it will help with raiding and instances - we know this 10. Some argue server merge higher priority than patch 1.2 11. Some servers show a population bump or bounce but not sure tied to people moving or new subscribers 12. We don't know if population is growing faster than people stopping from playing on deserted servers Note: No points above say anything on a bad game or that it is dead. But after 70 some odd pages that is what I take out of it. So people do care and they want BioWare to fix it sooner rather than later before they just say to heck with it and lose the addiction to the friction...if you catch my drift. This was last week. Throughout the entire weekend Fatman had over 200 people regardless of what zone or time of day it was. Over 200. In fact at one point the Imperial fleet was 300 strong. How can you not understand that impacts the overall feel of the game??? 300 in the fleet. Standing around the class trainer or daily warzone quest hub and see nothing but subscriber and guild tag names is utterly amazing. Something I've not seen since pre-launch. The Fatman(currently flagged as standard) 59 people, Korriban @ 0713 PST Dragon Trail(currently flagged as light - when isn't it) 6 people, Republic Fleet @ 0714 PST

No True, of course. We have been beating the dead horse for a while now. But we can only hope someone pays attention...

Couple issues with the LFG tool. First - there has to be someone or something to look for Sadly this won't help a majority of the servers unless they go cross-server for both PvE and PvP. Secondly - it won't help with side quests or some of the datacrons. Thirdly - it won't help with the main thing we play MMO's for - the social aspect of it. Leveling zones, planets in general, or even the fleets need people to make the game feel real. It is difficult enough with the shard system they put in play, don't make it worse. Lastly - you need a economy. The lower populated servers "ALONG" with the faction imbalance make it damn near impossible to find crafting materials or items to purchase. So here it is in a nutshell. No one to talk to other than Elvis. Things you see are the same old scripted NPC's and what not. Warzones take forever. If they do start chances are it is a instant loss for the side who doesn't fill. Can't do any form of raiding. Crafting or purchasable items on the trading posts are far and few between. No one to hear you scream or ask for help. Furthermore there is no conflict Two factions, ghost town of a server, no reason to do much of anything. Thus people moving to the fuller servers who have time left or willing to leave things behind. Face it. BioWare messed up in placing the patch 1.2 ahead of server merging. It was a boneheaded move. No one wants to hear someone say their baby is ugly. But I'm pretty sure in this case we are correct. The baby is ugly.

Fatman on 4/6/2012 9:46 PM PST (East Coast Server) Imperial Fleet: 233 Dragon Tear on 4/6/2012 9:47 PM PST (West Coast Server) Republic Fleet: 22 Houston.....we have a problem!!!!

It is pretty funny though now that I'm playing on a East coast server, The Fatman, with tons more people than my main's (Dragon Trail), people on Fatman think we are crazy. Honestly while leveling this morning server merge discussion came up several times and they are all like yeah, BioWare will make tons of cash, etc. You bring up it should be free and they are like, HUH???? Why... Got to say though that I love 110+ people in the freaking starting zone... On my Smuggler on a PvP server I didn't see an Imperial / opposing faction until I was on Alderaan @ level 28. Bet this time it is different.

It is Friday. For arguments sake why don't we see if we can at least agree on something. 1. OP's thread title is "Server population is dropping..." 2. We know there is a "Faction" imbalance which favors Imperial side but that really isn't something BioWare can easily fix, even if they should anyway 3. There are too many servers or so it would appear 4. There are servers that are impacted more than others both in population and faction 5. Lower populated servers impact economy, market items, groups, raids, and PvP/WZ's 6. Some people chose to move on their own 7. Some people can't due to time or character investment (or stubborn) 8. The Fatman seems to be the go-forward peoples choice (10 minute queue last night for me) 9. LFG tool won't address 1 - 9 but it will help with raiding and instances - we know this 10. Some argue server merge higher priority than patch 1.2 11. Some servers show a population bump or bounce but not sure tied to people moving or new subscribers 12. We don't know if population is growing faster than people stopping from playing on deserted servers Note: No points above say anything on a bad game or that it is dead. But after 70 some odd pages that is what I take out of it. So people do care and they want BioWare to fix it sooner rather than later before they just say to heck with it and lose the addiction to the friction...if you catch my drift. The Fatman(currently flagged as standard) 59 people, Korriban @ 0713 PST Dragon Trail(currently flagged as light - when isn't it) 6 people, Republic Fleet @ 0714 PST

First, and I don't think you are lumping me in the group, but I didn't say I hate the game. I actually enjoy it but there are a few key elements that are breaking the game for me, even a casual player. To my point though I'm talking about those who are visiting the forums while their time runs out hoping for some form of feedback about their concerns. This thread is growing not so much because we are arguing back and forth but because of points both sides are debating. This is really the only way, if forums are policed for any value that is, to express ones concern and/or priority. There are die hard players who can pick up and move and there are those who won't. Neither of us know how many of either camp there are and each have their reasons. I for one don't because I don't want to lose whatever history my lvl 50 has on the server he was created on. Yet with 30 people on the republic fleet and warzones taking forever to start and even longer to win, it gets frustrating. Rerolling when it took me about a month and a half to hit 50 at my pace isn't something I'm too keen on repeating. So mergers to me are more important. Then again I'm one of the many I'm guessing who rerolled on Fatman just to see what is like. I'll have to say it is pretty Epic. The /general chatter is a lot more fun and makes it a bit more social than what I've seen even through out the head start and later days. So I guess I can agree with you that there are those who only see the negative side of this. However, there are people here who don't want to pick up and move on their own to start over. We would like BioWare to just make it happen and happen tomorrow. Maybe my "motivation" button is broken. Maybe I'm stubborn. I think it is honestly that I don't want to have to level to 50 again and I'm a one character type of guy. I'm not a alt person so really that is it for me. Thus me wanting merging to happen yesterday

We have already said several times over but it is a couple reasons. First, and probably foremost, it is because we/they are waiting for their subscription "time" to run its course. Some people used game cards, some did multi month, etc. So if you have it why not use it? It isn't hurting anyone and no one so far has been rude. Who says they don't care? It is what it is but we can hope, yeah? After all, wasn't that a theme of one of the first trailers to come out??? Or is this the Deception one

Will call you out because many posts indicate just the opposite of what you feel or believe. Call it an opinion, call it a fact, call it whatever you want but if the people posting in the thread and say their server has X amount of people at X time, it is what it is. Most people are not even arguing that the game is or is not growing. What they are stating again and again is that the need for server merging is higher than patch 1.2. Why? Because you can't play much of a game when no one is on. Warzones don't start or if they do it is a instant loss due to having too few people or aborting. Can't field a group for a flashpoint, heroic side quest, or even building a datacron inside the fleet. Market doesn't have materials or items on it. People that are just starting today or yesterday can choose a higher populated server (of the two there anyway). Those of us who have 1 or more 50's can't because of the time we already have invested. It has been beat to death already. Yes, it is a choice, a subscriber choice. But it isn't our problem to fix. It is BioWare's. Maybe you are ok with the population of the server you roll on. Maybe you are one of the few who moved to address it on your own. Maybe you already play on a higher populated server and don't have our problems. Maybe you play Imperial and don't see it because of the faction imbalance. Or, maybe you do and I'm wrong. But let us just call a spade a spade. Dragon Trail (West Coast PvP server): Republic Fleet - 12 1132 AM PST / 1432 PM EST Corrected for server timezone Fatman (East Coast PvP server): Ord Mantell - 51 1134 AM PST / 1434 PM EST Corrected for server timezone Not even close now is it??? Starting planet has more than a Republic Fleet I'm glad I can't get to Fatman's fleet - I'd probably stop playing all together. I bet that place is booming.

Sadly that is about how it is for a lot of people. Stop paying and use remaining time to play on Fatman hoping something turns around.

I believe they "want" to fix it. But I've come to the conclusion that they can't. Honestly, the client performance cannot handle more 16 people near one another. I'm afraid this is a pretty big blunder on their part. Maybe loss of subscriptions will make them wake up because while new subs are happening the cancels are at a faster rate. The key then becomes can you win said subscribers back... My money is no, you can't. Why? Because D3 is around the corner as is GW2. Not saying they are better but starting fresh in one game vs. another is easier especially if you have a bad taste in your mouth. Furthermore, while some don't many people who play these types of games try the new games anyway. So damned if you do, damned if you don't. Again, server merges should have been done before 1.2 patch. The game already had enough content compared to anything else in regards to "RETAIL" content.

People keep saying to move if the server you play on is low. Repeat after me: "Why should the subscriber HAVE to do this???" There are many reasons why subscribers do not want start over and you guys/gals suggesting that need to get over it. They won't. They already have TIME invested into their character. They have TIME invested into their alts used to craft. They have legacy. They have valor rank. They have, what is left, is a persona of that Avatar on that server. To those whom starting over elsewhere is an option have probably already moved on so this isn't a issue. Heck, they are probably already level and valor capped. However, not everyone plays like. Thus the issue. This wasn't caused by the subscribers. This also isn't going to be solved from dropping in a LFG tool. The server(s) have to be merged in order to give it the look and feel of a social game. Hate to say it but one of the reasons play MMO's is to socialize. To talk, to play together, to have fun, to have choices. Those aspects of the game no LFG tool can address. "Everything" is impacted on low populated servers, more so with faction imbalance. Beginners asking for help, quests getting completed, time for warzones, warzone win/loss due to starting with less people than the other side, flashpoints, heroic side quests, crafters, and trading, market to name a few. While we don't know the overall population we do know how it feels on the servers we are playing on. Let me just say this. Merging of servers should have been a higher priority than patch 1.2x. That is all I'm going to say on it because without it more people will leave than new subscribers join. Word gets around.

I've previously posted Dragon Trail stats during West Coast prime time. On a whim today I figured I'd roll a alt on the more populated server aka Fatman. Sadly it made me sick to my stomach Dragon Trail: Republic Fleet @ 16:24 4/4/2012 Republic Faction 30 people The Fatman: Ord Mantell @ 16:26 4/4/2012 Republic Faction Starting smuggler zone 78 people Now you have to ask....who is having more fun. If fun is subjective then just consider this. 78 people in a starting zone vs. 30 in the republic fleet: 1. How much more /general chat is there? 2. Odds of actually completing flashpoints and Heroic side quests 3. Starting warzones with equal numbers of each faction Everything is subjective I know but come on. 78 people in the bloody starting zone. Let me level this experiment to 10 and see how the fleet is going. I'm willing to wager a easy 200+ are raging.

Let me put this into perspective for you. Especially since you also play Imperial... Dragon Trail: Republic Fleet @ 16:24 4/4/2012 Republic Faction 30 people The Fatman: Ord Mantell @ 16:26 4/4/2012 Republic Faction Starting smuggler zone 78 people Now you have to ask....who is having more fun. If fun is subjective then just consider this. 78 people in a starting zone vs. 30 in the republic fleet: 1. How much more /general chat is there? 2. Odds of actually completing flashpoints and Heroic side quests 3. Starting warzones with equal numbers of each faction Servers need to be kicked and kicked rather quickly before we all leave. Not everyone is going to reroll on their own leaving behind millions of credits and crafting alts. This is just getting silly to say the least.

I guess my point is simply this. Servers are empty for a reason. And those of us left playing on empty servers are not having as much fun as those of you who are playing on populated. Furthermore, the solution to the problem IS NOT FOR THE SUBSCRIBER to fix, but that of the developer. I said you can't have it both ways by saying you play on low and high populated servers. If you do then you know what the difference is. 32 people in the republic fleet as I noted of which 11 are level 50. Really can't field a 16 man instance now could you? Many reasons not withstanding there are not 16 on. Then factor in the experience differences and gear you see how ugly it gets rather quickly. That was at what, I said 8:00 PM PST? So the issue people are having is the term "significantly less". Empty is empty. Simple math says 1.7 million / 200 servers equates to what, 8500 or so subscribers per server in a perfect and balanced world? Be that as it may, and it isn't perfect nor are we wearing rose colored glasses, we have Dragon Trail with a whopping 32 people during prime time on Sunday night.... The debate is over verbiage I guess because empty is empty in my opinion and neither you or I know the actual numbers. We agree there is a issue maybe not the importance I guess. Hope you have a good evening and a pleasant tomorrow.

You can't have it both ways. If you play on both then you would know it isn't the same. Let us both be fair here. I mean would you say right now is considered prime time? 8:00 PM PST? Game of Thrones isn't on yet right now on the republic side there are 32 people in the fleet. 32 people. You are correct in that we can't say exactly how many are leaving or taking breaks. No one can but the publisher. But it is also correct to say that there is a issue both in server populations AND faction balance. Both of which impact the subscriber, people who play, enjoyment factor. I mean how many servers are there? Over 100 easy and the only one I see that is "FULL" is fatman. Now - would a quick fix be as simple as removing or disabling the shard / personal instance feature? Would that even help? Or could we just take a look for the next week as to who logs in, when they log in, for how long they are in for, and server capacity and merge some bloody servers. I don't know about you but as I've said, and why I've said it, relocating isn't a option. BioWare should be the ones managing this problem and it should have been done before 1.2 goes live in "my" opinion. 28 people now in the republic side of which 11 are lvl 50. You tell me how you would do anything worth while like a instance let alone do the +10 stat datacron. We can disagree on the finer points but the bottom line remains the same. There is a issue with servers and it is removing the fun from some subscribers. You may not feel it because your server has a better population but that doesn't remove the fact it is happening.

Here are my reasons in which case I also followed up via a email for feedback. 1. Server populations 2. Shard / instance while leveling - it made the game play like a single player game 3. Faction imbalance - playing republic is tough, low population server is difficult 4. PvP vs. PvE servers - doesn't seem to be any difference - tied to #1 above 5. Did I say single player feel - I didn't see opposing faction until lvl 28 on Alderaan 6. Ilum patch - Imperials valor farmed, no roll-back 7. Ilum client performance and now defunct zone 8. No reason to engage in PvP / Valor rank means nothing currently 9. Valor rank grind now defunct with recent patch, still no incentives 10. War Hero armor only delta color or such with 1.2 - could have coined something else 11. Lack of web portal for valor, rank, weekly, monthly stats 12. Warzones are boring and if started with less than equal numbers generally a loss 13. No penalty for leaving a warzone which increases the chances of a loss to # 12 above 14. Limited space combat - would have been nice to tie in PvP 15. Fleet to ship, to orbital station to another ship to ground ping pong is silly 16. Too many Imperial Sorcs but I'll just say class balance issues are starting to show 17. No feel or sense of any conflict between factions. and lastly.... 18. No draw to log back in. Let me sum it up this way because this could be a "just me" issue. But back in the day things along the lines of player maps in Unreal would always give me a reason to login. Or something simple as the developers releasing a shadow patch for the hottest graphics card at the time. It was new, cool, and exciting. Playing in low gravity or a map that looked like a bathroom. Point is there was a reason. Then say Diablo and marching through the catacombs for the first time. It was exciting to not know what was around the next corner and/or wall. Further along someone joins the game, asks for that teleport scroll to meet you and you flip hostile....and PK them. With DaOC you hit level 21 and think it is cool to head outside the frontier gate for the best EXP and Coin rewards....only to get a lvl 50 inf unstealth and 1 shot you. Yet you rez up, find your grave, and pray only to go another round... SWTOR just doesn't have that draw anymore after you level up a character. There isn't a sense of war between the republics and imperial forces. Darth Vader isn't a thread. There isn't any large scale battles. Everyone is a Jedi or Sith and there really isn't anything to work on if you will. Honestly - it is sort of anti-climatic now that I think about it. Yeah, great looking game. Great job on voice overs, graphics, and sound. But they really missed the boat when you step back and look at it. Nothing compels you to log back in. We need more cow-bell

Sure. Accounts are not closed. I agree with you. Breaks are good regardless of what game we are all playing. Just leveling a Jedi Shadow for a bit as time allows while my Gunslinger is in the bar boozing his credits away...

I don't remember the server to subscriber issue but seem to recall it happening when I tried AoC and also Rift. I remember lots of queue times in WoW. DaOC I don't remember anything like this at all but I always hold the right to be incorrect. With that being said I see your side of the argument. But at the end of the day it is actually easier for me to move on rather than picking up and starting over on another server. Maybe it is just my time or lack of. Maybe I'm stubborn. Yet I sit here and think to myself it has to be different on a higher populated server. Oh well, it is what it is..

There is no reason to go there after that quest. I believe it was mentioned in the guild summit that they are thinking about making it a PvP sandbox if you will. The idea is to try a little of this, little bit of that, and see what happens. However, it is dead more often than not. Server population will dictate a lot of it as will the actual reason to go there. Right now there isn't any reason. World pvp, which this could be considered, has no reason or incentive. You gain no valor. Only the thrill of the kill for a few minutes which is often not short lived. So one must ask why? We do not get valor. We do not get put on any naughty list. We don't get bounties placed for killing x number of people let alone someone x levels below us. It takes more time and effort setting up a group only to watch them all disband as you start to get outnumbered or out played Then factor in if you play on the lower populated faction and/or server and, well, you see how much fun that would be....and all of the republic side already has a bad taste in their mouth after the Ilum debacle... SWTOR is a great game for PvE....it isn't so good at PvP.

Wait much longer and it will be too late. Legacy is already in the game and most of us "knew" and also "know" it will be addressed later. Server population actually ruins the feel of the game and prevents it from being played regardless of your view. We all know what one of the 'M's stand for in MMO, right? Repeat after me.... M U L T I P L A Y E R

So you agree that there are servers that are in trouble or that have low population? Forget trouble, but then low population? So if you agree with that then I'd say I can see your point about people reporting some servers gaining in population. The problem though is this. Which of the two are actually happening faster? Before you say anything else yes, it is speculation because I only play on one server. But if I'm to take what I see within other /general forum posts and those I read in /pvp I'm going to say there are a higher number of lower populated servers than there are of those gaining. So you also agree that faction imbalance is bad. I agree, hard for developers to do anything about. But that is why the OP and others, including me, would rather see something happen in regards to server mergers before 1.2 goes live. Yes, we can do something about it. I can do something about it. I guess I can stop playing my current level 50 and my various alts, crafting characters, and leave behind 10 or so million credits and restart. I can also leave behind my mains character reputation among those still playing who I played with since retail. Those countless hours forming 8 man groups out in Ilum to try and play the way it was designed. To not trade kills but to actual play, roam, fight, take, control, or otherwise do things to gain valor and complete dailies. To throw away War Hero effort pre-giveaway- patch release. Starting over isn't a option and I think it is wrong that that is the only one being talking about today. You are right - the subscribers can do something about it. But what I'm going to ask you is this. Why should we have to? Let me also say this. This is actually the first MMO that I've ever seen this happen. I'm not sure which publisher started the trend but there is a major problem when games go live and they create massive amounts of servers but neglect the fact of what "could" happen if the game isn't as popular as they though. Thus leaving us with 1/2 of our current problem today....too many servers with not enough population to support a proper community. Therein lies half the problem and it isn't something that LFG will solve. LFG doesn't help me when I'm on Alderaan and wanting to chat it up with the local population

I agree with you 100%. Dragon Trail. Republic. But I did note that the general forums have many posts similar to this one.

Yes, my assessment is logical. Not necessarily factual? Incorrect. I'm currently logged into the game, server is Dragon Trail, and there are a total of 21 people showing in the republic fleet. Oh, wait. It just went to 26 since I've been typing this. Oh, bummer, back to 23... So maybe you don't see it has factual because you don't play on the same server or you play on the Imperial side which has more people. There are others who have posted in this thread stating similar facts based on the time they play or just randomly logging in. So it isn't an opinion regarding the state of the game across many servers. You want to know what is funny about our discussion? I actually downloaded the GW1 client last night just out of curiosity and the starting area had more people in it than what is currently being displayed in the republic fleet(currently showing 27 people). Another fact - not fiction. 1.2 patch drop does not contain any information regarding server mergers or addressing the imperial vs. republic faction imbalance.