I'm not comparing 1.1 to the NGE. I am comparing the player reaction on the forums. Lots of crying, whining, calls for rollbacks, unsubs... etc. In my guild, only 8 of us are level 50 (and therefore affected by the Ilum thing) the other 100 members are all enjoying themselves in more balanced warzones.

I didnt say that at all. I said the forum posts are very very similar... I'm sure you can agree.

I was kinda hoping to play this game for a few years, but then I made the mistake of reading the forums... This is what the SWG forums looked like around the time of the NGE... SCARY!

The reason you get Huttball all the time is because there are huge amounts of Sith players and small amounts of Republic players. If you go to the Republic fleet, there's usually about 50-100 Republic players there... now how many Imps are at the Imp fleet? I rest my case. Perhaps all you Darth Maul wannabes should role a Republic toon and fight a real battle from the underdog's perspective.

How about bioware just ADMITS they screwed up? That would be a good first step. Then a public apology. I'm not sure a rollback will help... unless we rollback to pre-launch and have more players roll Republic.

uh huh, a TEAM GAME he says... this is why I have been petitioning since beta for 8 man premades. Coordination may be the ONLY weapon we have against 8 geared out Sith players.

You have no respect for guys who want to play together? We arent PvPers? Mass PvP requires alot more strategy than one on one pvp. Personally if you cannot function in a group atmosphere then YOU are not a 'real' pvper. MMORPG = Massivly MULTIPLAYER online rpg. If you want to fly solo, go play Legend of Zelda.

As the OP, I am not opposed to making premades only fight premades... so lets get that clear. I just want to be able to use a full group of my guys to play together in BG's. When we first read about Huttball, for example, I was discussing with our rival guild how we were going to set up two 8 man teams and face each other... well, you cant exactly do that. Personally, I'd rather NOT play against pugs. I have always been more for organized PvP... its more fun and challanging and you can really develop some good rivalries.

*EDIT* I see where this is going, so let me be very specific, I would like to see the implimentation of 8 man PvP groups on PVP SERVERS. I can see why PvE and RP servers would not want this. However, on PvP servers, we signed up for non-stop PvP with the company of our guildmates. *EDIT*

and I'd like to take a shot at them with an 8 man group of my under lvl 50, not so fully geared guys... and have fun doing it. nuff said.

Even though you are not 'elite' and not 'already geared' and share a completely different opinion than most of the members of my guild, I would be happy to have you with us... assuming, of course, that you are Republic. You will find we are pretty far from being 'P-bottles'

I'm assuming this must be a WoW thing... Its amazing how concerned people are about PuGs. Perhaps they should just give people who prefer PuGs their own server. Most of the time, in battlegrounds on my server, its 2 guilded groups of 4 vs. 2 guilded groups of 4. Which is cool, but I'd ratther have all 8 be my guys. The people who took the time to make a guild and set allies and adversaries before launch AND chose a PvP server, should have the ability to have 8 man groups.

why? I'm not level 50 and most of my guild is not level 50. So basically, you are saying I have to wait until I myself and 7 of my guildmates reach level 50 before I can even THINK about playing in an 8 man group with them??? I'm sorry, I'm on a PvP server... I want to PvP NOW and I want to do it with my friends. Silly... just silly. I am assuming the negative, PuGs-loving carebears posting here are from RP servers, not PvP servers.

As the OP, I feel I must explain my situation: First of all, I am a level 43 (NOT 50) Trooper (Republic, of course, NOT SITH) My guild only has 4 level 50 toons. (One of which does not PvP often) When we que in PvP, we que with our own players ranging from level 14 - 50. The problem is, we have to leave people out sometimes and its not fair to them. Our time in Battlegrounds has generated mixed results. Sometimes we can go all night without a victory, which is fine, because its still FUN and we still generate the various rewards, just not as many of them. The point is, we are the class of player who gets 'steamrolled by 8 level 50 sith' sometimes. Guess what? I have absolutly NO PROBLEM WITH THAT! As a matter of fact, I would fight against 12 level 50 fully geared out Sith if you let me bring 8 of my own guys (of various levels) into the fight. Frankly, my guild enjoys being the underdogs. We just prefer to be the underdogs TOGETHER. As for that argument AGAINST where 'I want an 8 man group just to steamroll pugs' well... I would PREFER if I WASNT playing against pugs. As a matter of fact, I would love the ability to contact the guild leaders of my adversary guilds, in game and coordinate Guild vs Guild battlegrounds and Huttball matches. I cant see others from PvP servers being against 8 man groups, so I will excuse the people from the PvE and RP servers where PvP is probably more casual and relies heavily on PuGs. In that case, I agree, keep the system the way it is. Now, if you are from a PvP server and are arguing against 8 man groups... what the hell are you doing on a PvP server in the first place!?!?!?!? You guys don't have a legitimate argument. I am on a PvP server with my Guild. I want to PvP with my Guild... period. Do you guys cry in open world PvP too? I've gotten killed by 4 man gank squads on Hoth, they made it a point to guard my quest objective so I couldnt complete my mission. Personally, I thought that was the coolest part about being on a PvP server. I didnt 'cry' it just forced me to rethink my strategy.

you're kidding right? The game hasnt even been out a month yet and you're crying that its taking too long to get your epic endgame gear?... give me a break. Obviously this is someone who has not played any other MMO.

Then give me the power, as a guild leader, to coordinate with other (even sith) guild leaders to do ORGANZIED PvP. I disagree with you, though. So far my guild is only rolling with 4 level 50's, two of which dont even pvp much. Our hardcore pvp group is in the 35-40 range. I have no problem going up against an entire group of 50's as long as I can pvp with my guys.

we are in the same boat. Its annoying to constantly have to move everyone to different channels.

seriously, what is a PUG?

every other MMO i've played in allowed for AT LEAST an 8 man group.

I created my guild on the TOR site the day they allowed it. We entered the game with 40+ people and are up to 75. We chose a PvP server, so we may PvP together. Then we discover we really cant play together, unless we roll with tiny groups of 4. I'm only asking for 8... heck, I REALLY would like groups of 12, 16 or 20!! People who disagree, should not be playing an MMO, they should be playing *Insert Single Player game Name Here*

what are pugs? little dogs with funny faces?

*EDIT* I see where this is going, so let me be very specific, I would like to see the implimentation of 8 man PvP groups on PVP SERVERS. I can see why PvE and RP servers would not want this. However, on PvP servers, we signed up for non-stop PvP with the company of our guildmates. *EDIT* The point of an MMO is to be able to play with other people. The point of a guild is to be able to play with other people you actually WANT to play with. The Guild Creation system is wonderful, so far. We can gather together everyone, give them ranks and such and speak to them in guild chat... but if we want to play with them, we have to leave people out. I have a guild of 75 people, who would love to PvP together in battlegrounds... but its very very difficult to do so. Yes, we can make 4 man groups for the battlegrounds... but then we get stuck with 4 level 14 noobs going against a full group of 50's... needless to say, the 'bolster' system leaves alot to be desired. Now, we were able to get a full group of 8 into a battleground a few times, usually late at night, queing at the same exact time and adding a whole lot of luck... AND ITS BEEN FANTASTIC!!! I can understand why we have 4 man groups for questing... but we NEED to have 8 man groups for pvp! I want to play with MY GUYS!! I'm sure others have posted about this before and I'm sorry if its repetitive, but I couldn't find a particular post to reply to. Do you agree with this assesment?

why is it when people suck at something, they want it removed from the game? I'm a terrible Huttball player, but I'm getting better and I definately have fun with it when I have my own guys with me. I've even scored a couple of times. I certainly would not remove it. However, It would be cool if we could have a separate spot for it so we can play Huttball any time we want. Its hard to practice (being Republic) when I only get into a Huttball match once every few days lol. And PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE allow for 8 man pvp Battleground groups. This four man crap isnt cutting it. Its an MMO, we are supposed to be encouraged to play TOGETHER with guildmates.

Exactly! If you run through JUST the class quests (spacebarring through all the conversations) you can pretty much power-level a toon in a few days with round the clock playing. But... you miss ALOT. I love the fact that I don't have to stand in the middle of a static spawn of *insert random creature name here* for 6 months to level a toon. Leveling in this game is FUN, its rewarding, there are many different ways to do it based on your preferences and it keeps you interested. If you like a game where you have to grind to level, go play City of Heroes. Grinding sucks and its so 5 years ago. In addition, Bioware made it possible to do most of the content at any level. Its nice to start pvping at lvl 10 instead of having to wait until your lvl 50 to be a viable PvP threat. Plus you get real XP for pvp too, so if thats your game, you dont even have to do the story line. I love the way Bioware is catering to all different play styles (and combos of play styles) with the XP system. Personally, I'm traditionally a very slow leveler in MMOS, unless I get into a power level group. With this system, i can ENJOY THE GAME and level at my own pace. I can PvP, PvE, do space, craft or just jerk around and kill stuff and still get XP towards my end-game. In addition, I have the option to make as many toons as I want and play them any way I want. To the OP: Stop crying about things like this that make this game BETTER. Its people like you who brought about the CU and the NGE in SWG.

Terentaktek server is home 7 SWG guilds from the Shadowfire server. In addition, we have met some other players from other SWG servers.