I gave my opinions on why I found anni mara to still be fun and ppl hardly if any at all gave theirs was attacked because I found the thread silly and saw ppl giving up on a class they loved so much because of something as basic as a proc change which seems to be the biggest issue among all those disappointing. So that's why i care a large portion gave up on the class with the majority hardly giving feedback on why they did so. I'm pretty sure what got solo upset was the fact that I called it a silly thread which I still find it to be. Agree to disagree

Actually didn't see the second post my bad if gunnery were to trade its 70 % slow per tick for 3 secs for a ranged root on a 15 ish sec cd that would actually be a nerf imo and I wouldn't go for that. As for a baseline ranged root for mandos in general ehhh it would be helpful all around prob push arsenals set up nuke power over the top though, medics would love it and IQ could use it especially since the slow they apply is really pretty weak but long duration. Smoke screen as base would def help all tress in the kiting department especially in yolo que I would personally go for this more so than a root especially if it meant giving up the slows. An alternative idea could be to also replace the rocket punch portion of the afterburners utility and place the root on maybe something like missile blast and give the root an icd of 10-15 seconds?

The majority here aren't saying that or expressing feels about what they miss the majority are saying they quit or went to vengeance juggernauts without even giving reasons as to why thats crying for the sake of crying.

No one appointed me the judge of anything a silly thread is a silly thread its ppl crying over nothing at least have a decent reason is all I'm saying. I did read the posts and you 3 fanned the flames being "promieneint" sent figures in the sent/mara forums that sent others into a frenzy and when it got out of hand 3 of u quickly tried to "calm" everyone down. So yes your'e in that corner you can have a shiny medal to go with it. My attitude is not arrogant ppl give weak points on why the class is not fun they can't even defend their point properly let alone even bother to give any. If anything the majority of your posts are intiating my first post in here by saying I don't play a sent You also already took multiple sneak jabs at me saying I clearly never played a sent which is false and that I'm unable to read the thread. All thought from what i can see it seems like you haven't read my posts and just snip out bits to satisfy your "tear drowning" needs (that's a sneak jab btw) I already stated that the majority not all sents in this thread were crying about nothing But its obvious that you're so emotionally invested about the play style being crushed and blown into oblivion that you can't read my posts correctly which again is pathetic. The post you quoted makes even less sense in the defense of watchmen sucking in the fun factor now as its exactly the same in terms of switching up the rotation thx to improved focus in that regard its even better then it was before because if a proc failed you would lose damage potential and have to press random buttons which can still happen if someone pushes to hard or screws up rotation if that's what you miss just that it's not forced like it was in the past with rng, There literally was no synergy between an rng proc that decided if you could have a dot on a new target/ target or not. The fact that watchmen can alternate between using slash or bladestorm as a filler in its current form is proof of that play style still being in tact just far more efficient . The rng was put on slash and dispatch after mercy slash to increase its damage if u still want some form of rng on important damaging abilities. From what I understand reading that post it seems that the real issue is really with force melt and the fact that the dot doesn't line up with the cd and not actually the proc reset of mercy slash with cauterize which was rng anyway. Your reply about guardians old rng makes no as they have had a significantly worse history with rng compared to sents sense:confused: This is a game and I'm entitled to enter a thread from a bunch of whiners where the majority aren't even being constructive and tell them it's silly. Remember your the one that quoted my post that was calling the reasons given for less fun being silly. With that said I would have headache too trying to defend something that makes no sense and holds no base seeing as your done now though have a nice day whining about the elegance, beauty, and dekucacy of 2.X watchmen. li On an end note if I recall correctly could be wrong here but didn't a vanguard dps kwerty i think it was have to explain to a bunch of watchmen sents how to play their own spec before freaking out something to do with master strike/ravage?

This^

Please re read what I wrote I'm not talking about merc mando utility that all 3 specs have the option to take I'm talking about gunnery specifically as a discipline is fine in the utility department. On that note though merc /mando utility are great in the sense of most of them being viable options. What we suffer from the most compared to other classes is that we don't have enough points to take stuff that are crucial to our general survival and mobility with and without its like night and day. It's not so much the actual gap closers these days that are making melee strong it's the immunity they have. Sins fury maras, power techs, vengeance juggs and concealment all have great utility mostly attached to gap closer that allow them to stick on a target. That is where the main engagement is imo and usually ends up with who has what up last the and the most Also wasn't aware you were correlating this with rocket out as it wasn't stated in the first post.

Ya i was just curious about the triple bombs going out on a person while everyone is still alive wasn't sure if it was intended or not ty for the replies.

It's a root which is very strong in its self and that does a hefty amount of damage rocket punch root is mainly used for defensive purposes not to be broken by damage but to move away or heal up. Obviously a ranged root would be better but gunnery with its tremendous slowing power doesn't need it would simply be overkill especially if any changes were to come in the future (lol) for the entire AC.

Merely stated this is a silly thread because the reasons ppl are giving are so weak and aren't even worth whining over especially in consideration of how well the spec is in all aspects, in fact the whole advanced class. The reason I really find this thread so sad is that this is the class and spec that had extreme dev insight and blew it for anyone else when it came to dev interaction and class feedback time when they had a massive temper tantrum. Now we end up with a thread where there are multiple silly posts about how the class isn't "fun". Please do elaborate on what was so elegant and beautiful about an rng proc. Go ask vigilance guardians about rng procs they can tell u what that was really like and it sure wasn't elegant On that note no person should go around calling them self a veteran sent when they stop playing a certain spec let alone the class the spec because the spec isn't fun cause they took away mah rng proc o noes that looks incredibly pathetic.

Operative heals sucked big time before the first ranked season started. Sorcs heals had the highest hps potential before first ranked season starts but were squishy as fudge. Merc heals had amazing surviability and easy as fudge energy management with insane off dps before ranked started. All this changed when ranked before and when first ranked started. Ops were overbuffed Mercs were nerfed Sorcs had armor rating, utility changes, and energy improvements didn't help much. Even around late 2.X ish when mercs had proper healing power and sorcs had proper healing power/utility energy consuming hpw as still clunky and stupid tho. the clear winning during that time frame was operatives because they did what sorcs are doing now. Operatives were doing far better in an area where they shouldn't excel such as single target healing and burst healing. On that note tho to the OP if you're willing I would change roles entirely if u have a dps class or tank class u enjoy and spend time with that.

Stay in your misguided sorrow then when nothings wrong with the spec play style wise or actual dps;)

It is a thread mostly about whining and QQing though the majority of its how anni maras gave up and went to juggernaut vengeance or combat maras only a few ppl are actually reminiscing. Please do explain what exactly is different with the feel of cauterize other then the time it lasts, was it because it could reset from using another move with rng attached??? So having it be useable all the time at any time is a bad feeling and messes with the smoothness? Literally the title of the thread is how many 2.X watchmen/Anni players are still at it that means playing the spec. What exactly do ppl want back the proc from cauterize??? On that note tough I agree melt looks blah, out of all the new moves classes/specs got its prob the crappiest looking. No range leap will be missed for the feels but outside of that I srsly don't understand what ppl miss about proc cauterize "feels" wise and its brought up as the main reason for the ppl that are actuall reminiscing compared tot he ppl that just go I quit anni mara without giving an actual reason. It's over exaggerated is all as if they butchered the spec fun wise and yep its perfectly fine reminiscing about things in the past I do for my medic and bodyguard or slinger all the time but this is not reminiscing:( Things that I personally miss that impacted my happy and feels factor for this spec are 2% hp back with zen Bloodward being apart of the actual tree The no range leap The interaction of this spec with the on damage proc relics that dealt internal/bleed damage more so a relic issue tho. Abusing the juggernaut pvp set bonus to get 10% damage after leaping lol overload saber being so stupidly high up in the tree if u ever decide to lv another sent Overall though the pros beat the cons in what has changed for watchmen/annihilation over the years. If ppl are leaving mara or watchmen because of no more rng cauterize, fugly force melt, and no range leap (r.i.p) then that's just down right silly especially when the majority don't even give details on what they don't like it just looks like a bandwagon parade.

Does anyone else know what the logic is behind getting 3 bombs on 1 person while everyone is alive is this just bad rng?

Gunnery is perfectly fine bad idea to play medic or IQ for ranked more so medic. Mandos and mercs in general have fundamental iffy dcds and they have to many utility skills that they can't take which are vital to their survival and mobility even energy management .

No it would be op already have a root on rocket punch if specced even if ppl think its useless which it isn't. Boltstorm is devastating as is with the slow on top of the fact how often it can be used. Gunnery is honestly 100% fine as a spec in terms of damage and utility mandos and mercs in general just have fundamental flaws when it comes to dcds.

One of the tanks I raid with ended up using this move in a pretty amazing situation in HM 16m MB. Since we aren't using a shadow for ion cutter one of our VG tanks used transpose to swap places with a sage/sent when they had bomb to make it incredibly easy to get in to take ion cutter.

Yeah I agree should nerf ops:p

Sorry, should have made it more clear I'm not talking about the players overlooking barrier interaction with control points I meant bioware overlooking it even with feedback from players on the pts thought that was understood. I'm well aware of the numerous issues sorcs have been causing for pvp I was the first person to oppose the sorc heal changes in the 3.3 pts feedback thread so my head is not in the sand.

Are you guys sure a merc didn't net u or used lol the rocket out with smokescreen utility? I wouldn't be shocked if it was a new feature though juggernaut and mara leaps have been buggy in huttballs from beta. ITS A FEATURE!

The Juggernaut one is 100% fine they blew all their dcds to make a dive for it real issue there is ppl blowing ccs and int for no reason while they have full hp and filling resolve when its not needed, also most likely not using trauma which fudges over a juggernaut pretty bad. The sorc one however is bad game design and should drop the battle mod like it were a huttball not sure how this was even overlooked

why do ppl keep saying madness dps isn't great exactly? its dps is above average and very easy to get off and its hardly hampered by dcds or line of sight, high sustained and insane cleave with great control over there burst cycles. So it's not just the off healing and utility the way they deal damage plays a very big part. Sorcs were always a class that had a high skill ceiling imo but at the same time it was easy to play and user friendly with the necessary moves to accomplish near anything , they had an extremely obvious weakness of being squishy in the past still kinda are, in the past it was at the point it was far to much they added barrier buffed it multiple times but in typical bio ware fashion they over tuned their baseline healing in 3.3 which did translate well at all into 4.0 with the damage and cleave potential they have all mixed into the utilitarians that sorcs are. Some other classes specs r very close to being that entire ult package such as mad sorcs. Believe it or not arsenal mercs are very close to that they avoided the surge nerf still not sure why but if they were to get any sort of actual def improvements as they are now such as the 2 heroic talents made baseline or for arsenal that are pretty much vital to survive focus fire and add in they would be insane and free up space to take far more offensive options and mobility. This isn't the case though and will most likely never be just something to think about in terms of the balancing act They don't care about class balance atm though nor pve end game group content lots of areas of the game are currently being ignored. Could even say they don't care about pvp but they just dropped a new warzone and arena plus next season to at least make it look good. Real focus is single player story driven content

Equally skilled players (which is honestly pretty rare) a mara comes out on top.The most notable difference between juggernauts and maras are that jugs dcds are easier to use effectively. Both provide team utility though with jugs possibly providing more over maras with tank stance/guard/taunt and the ever so forgotten intercede.

It is fun to play and its top dps this is crying for the sake of crying not only that but the reasons ppl give that its not fun to play are silly such as cauterize dot timing/reset force melt aka having to pay attention to dots. Did u not read what i wrote? As for a last point I do have a sent iv'e had one from 1.2. Sents now compared to sent 2.X, because for some reason it seems like u cant recall anything about a class "you play" nothing devastating has happened. They changed cauterize dot timing added an extra dot being force melt, increased the cd and took away cauterize reset on mercy slash , and vastly improved focus management they even brought slash back into the rotation for all the sents that were crying about it. Lol its even possible to use blade storm ( coolest jedi move) in watchmen without running into focus issues that sounds like fun improvement to me. What's really really funny is tho it seems like your more so upset that the new move force melt looks lame as cupcakes which it is compared to everything else that was introduced between all the classes and the changes to mercy slash cauterize reset which all that does is make it so u have to pay attention to dots. Which means why did u write without reading what I wrote just a another emotionally invested sent that seems to think watchmen was destroyed in the fun department which is hilarious the only thing "fun" removed soley related to watchmen and not a hybrid was the no range leap close quarter combat i think it was called which honestly ended up having more positives over negatives. Your points are weak for why the spec isn't fun anymore. At the very least with how sents destroyed any real dev interaction your spec is top dps and not suffering the pain of other classes that might have this "fun" issue while being near the bottom of the food chain.

Its funny because when 3.3 was dropped we had that super rare yellow post in the pvp forums saying they would be looking at heals if it was over performing and adding something in to fix it. Guess that must mean sorcs aren't over performing lol:rolleyes:

This is a silly thread the old watchmen was even easier then the new one you didn't even need to pay attention to your dots for being a dot spec the new watchmen however has surplus of focus compared to the old one which is nice allowing for more rotation breaking depending on what you're killing or if rotation is messed up. I mean really watchmen is the top parsing spec by a long shot and were gonna QQ about it not being fun because we have to pay attention to dots......... On that note tho if there is something to miss it would be the super op dotmash can only imagine how hilarious that spec would have been if hybrids were still a thing.