/signed. I can't level my Sorcerer, I don't like it. Nor am I interested in playing any other class (I'm a healer dammit!) I haven't told anyone yet, because I'm not a drama queen, but I unsubscribed (I continue to be under no illusion that anyone cares). If they fix the class I love, then I'll resub in an instant - I love everything about the game except being stuck in an underpowered class - but it appears to be that SWTOR won't be ready for me for awhile. I've still got 60 days, so I'll still be here fighting everyday; but ever since my guild stopped raiding Operatives early this week, I haven't had the heart to log in. I've probably played less than 5 hours all week.

False! You're opinion should and does matter - as a minority class (Operative/Scoundrel) in a minority role (healing), we need as much support as we can get. That our role (healing) is vital to a group's success in any situation should also make balance between the healing classes - and thus more potential healers - of interest to you as well. My hope is that I can win over your support. I have no doubt of this; but that doesn't conflict with my assertion that Operative/Scoundrel healers are a dying breed. In 8 & 16-man Operations, Operative/Scoundrel healing simply is not competitive. However in easier content, the Operative/Scoundrel can keep a group up, but they have to work very hard at it. Consequently the only successful Operative/Scoundrel healers are those who took the time to stick with the class and learn its (broken) mechanics. The issue is that these healers would blow you away if they'd rolled a Sorcerer/Sage instead. Their hard work would push out ~2x as much healing. At least. So if not for me, support class balance for the Operatives in your guild - for all their skill, isn't it only fair that they be viable healers regardless of their class, as opposed to currently being worse than even a mediocre Sorcerer/Sage?

It's clearly intended to be a HoT class because of the energy + TA/UH system and all of the instant cast abilities. That said, you're right, it's clearly not working as intended. The class needs a serious over-haul.

Does it rebind in the keybinding dialogue but then not work or does it just not register in the game? You might trying running both SWTOR processes as an administrator?

If your guild leader needs anyone to talk to RE Operative/Scoundrel . . . !!

Ugh, it's vanilla WoW all over again. I want to be a healer, not an innervate bot. Plus, you're right, it's unnecessary. A Sorcerer/Sage who can't keep their force up needs to learn to play, or needs to teach their group how to not be bad, plan and simple.

This analysis is filled with inaccuracies: comparing the healing one class does at level 19 to the healing another class does at 41 is like comparing apples to hand grenades. Of course you have the impression that "all healing classes are capable", because you've only played a Sorcerer/Sage when they're missing more than half of their important talents. At level 50, a Sorcerer/Sage doesn't run low on force. They have a series of talents which synergize to give them the ability to be completely healing neutral. In the end, the Sorcerer/Sage resource system is far more forgiving than the other two classes while without any of the downsides associated with the scaling regeneration mechanics of Ammo/Heat/Energy. OP: Long story short, don't read this guy. He's wrong. If you want to be a healer, don't make the mistake many of us made - roll a Sorcerer/Sage.

Personally, I don't like the idea of a melee range healer as a means of increasing Operative viability. The cost/benefit of having to get in melee range to heal someone is impossible to balance: Costs Time to close distance between yourself and the target (impossible of the target is also moving away from you). Placing yourself in harms way of enemy AoE/Swipe/Cleave damage. Moving towards enemy targets (especially dangerous in PvP) So the question becomes: What magnitude of benefit would be necessary to make people want to incur those costs? Those benefits would have the be massive. I'm talking like healing for more than 1.5x of Kolto Injection (at which point you'd be healing for close to 1/3 of an average non-tank HP pool) - ergo significantly overpowered. So we'd end up with a new ability that was either (1) generally useless because it's costs were too high vs. benefits (see Kolto Infusion); or (2) was overpowered in a dramatic fashion such so that it's benefits might equal its costs. It wouldn't make us anymore versatile or desirable for groups: in high-end PvE we'd likely incur more damage to ourselves by being that close to targets needing healed and/or targets would die before we could close on them; in PvP we'd be murdered the second we ran into crows and our targets would die before we could close on them (if they need that much healing, they need it now!)

God hurricane was SO bad.

You're wrong. Tech / Force Power and Power both add the same amount of bonus healing: .17

I hate to say it, but you're one of the outliers of our class; probably not very much help that I can offer at this point. I didn't watch the videos entirely, but you seem to be doing everything right. You might try to swapping out the stock enhancements in the gear for power/surge enhancements (because screw alacrity), but I haven't run the numbers on that switch and haven't made that commitment myself. Maybe you can help me: Why are you using Sage gear; have I missed something in the gear, have you swapped out the mods or something? What's going on there?

Sure, that's a valid set of risks. But frame that against my belief that Operative/Scoundrel healing is on death's door step; and that changes are needed ASAP to preserve the population of Operative/Scoundrels from becoming Sorcerer/Sage healers, or a different role, or unsubbing, and you'll see why I'm in favor of fix, fast, now in a series of iterative changes rather than trying to make 1 big comprehensive solution.

Stop toiling away in obscurity! Join us in the Healer Forums, and comment on our community-created Healer Request Compilation so that together we might make our voices heard.

Stop toiling away in obscurity! Join us in the Healer Forums, and comment on our community-created Healer Request Compilation so that together we might make our voices heard.

Click through that link I gave you - more feedback than you can shake a stick at™ At this point, I nearly written a book on Scoundrel/Operative healing feedback. Click through to my posts to take a looksee, I cannot reproduce it here right now (though I'm starting to think all of the points that have been made need to be centralized into one place, like a proof) I agree that we need significantly more work than adjusting 1 talent, but then, not all fixes are equal; some require mechanics changes - new mechanics, recoding others, etc. - others require number adjustments. Fixing Recuperative Nanotech/Kolto Cloud is a little of both; it needs its healing increased (numbers increase), it needs it's 4 target limit removed (existing mechanic with a limitation) and it needs it's duration and tick time shortened (numbers/mechanic fix). But all of these fixes don't have to happen at the same time. Push out the healing buff (numbers increase) because it's apparent it can be done rapidly. Continue working on the other fixes and push them out whenever they're ready.

I don't disagree that it takes time, it's just that the time for accomplishing any sort of balance is quickly slipping away. We've done a lot of the thinking through of this problem in our Healer Request Compendium created/curated by RuQo - ours in that we have developed this as a community - that Bioware can source for ideas, confirm their ideas, or even just laugh at but see the issues we're trying to address. And it doesn't need to be a big overhaul. Bioware was able to very quickly reduce the damage being done by DPS Operative/Scoundrel's top-tier talent, what's the hold up on the healers underwhelming 31-point ability?

Duplicated for truth. This is exactly the problem. Thank you for coming out of the shadows. We need more voices on this issue in order to get the attention we desperately need.

Now now. Don't take your frustrations out on Trineda. S/He's (sorry!) a Community Rep, not a Developer, and is neither qualified to (no offense!!) nor permitted to respond in a more meaningful way. However Trineda is one of the few responsible for keeping tabs on the community and reporting what's going on; it will be Trineda or one of her/his colleagues we will eventually thank for getting us the Dev attention we need. I know we're really starting to reach the end of our rope - I'm right there with you - but lashing out at the people who are/will be responsible for getting us help isn't the answer. Keep it constructive; we've come this far in developing a thoughtful discourse that I believe will attract the positive attention we deserve, let's not toss it away.

You're right to note that my focus is on PvE viability, but that doesn't mean I turn a blind eye towards PvP balance. The fixes that I've proposed to Operative/Scoundrel healing are mechanics based, not numbers based, and thus would not directly buff the amount of healing Clem does, though it would make him more versatile than the reality I describe below. Clem is a significant outlier - previously, the max I'd heard of an Operative/Scoundrel healing in a Warzone was 500k - and my immediate reaction is: There will always be outliers and you cannot buff/nerf based on statistical anomalies; but I realize that it an unsatisfactory answer for you. My first inclination is to agree that he must have exceptional support from his team. He likely is very difficult to focus fire and has both tank and DPS support. In turn, he likely keeps both his HoTs and his AoE on himself and everyone else at the same time. I imagine he and his team play very aggressively, are geared to the teeth, and he is a biochem. The likely are always in a close-knit group, and rarely stray off (this is the only scenario underwhich I can comprehend the 700k figure). My second inclination is to think that a lot of people on your server are bad (please, no offense is intended by this statement, hear me out) because an Operative/Scoundrel healer is surprisingly easy to shutdown (though maybe I'm just very aware of it because of my experiences). Operative/Scoundrel healing revolves around generating and spending Upper Hand/Tactical Advantage; this is especially true in PvP. Let me quote myself here: Source Refuting Operative/Scoundrel Mobility Myth Without a UH/TA on hand, we have 1 direct heal, 1 HoT, and 1 (poor) AoE. Therefore, in order for Clem (and other Operatives) to remain constantly healing, he needs frequent if not near constant access to Kolto Injection, both as his main heal and as a reliable means of generating a TA. Therefore, properly interrupted (2 interrupts - 8s lockout - will do it in 90% of situations), Clem will rapidly use his remaining TA charges and subsequently be forced into a situation where he can only cast 1 HoT and 1 AoE. Locked out, Clem will be able - at most - to generate a TA every 4.5 seconds (from the 30% proc chance on Kolto Probe) which will give him access to Surgical Probe (medium heal; refunds TA when cast on target below 30%HP) and the rarely used Kolto Infusion (same strength as Kolto Injection, requires TA to cast). So, should you work together with just one other person, you ought to be able to shut down Clem for a long time, just by watching for Kolto Injection (but be careful, some Ops (myself included) will attempt to cast Kolto Infusion in anticipation of the interrupt, to get you to waste it) and stopping it. This isn't something you could not do as easily to a Sorcerer/Sage, because they don't have 2/3 of their heals gated by the secondary resource system. TL;DR - The changes I'm seeking wouldn't de facto buff your outlier example; and in it's current state you ought to be able to shut Clem down whenever you so please, depending on your ability to coordinate with other players.

Heh, I meant to link you to the whole kit and caboodle as well as the spreadsheet: Sithwarrior.com Scoundrel/Operative Healing Compendium Link to the spreadsheet thread is in there; author grants rights to download and modify (didn't see repub rights)

With those changes, yes. Absolutely; the "split second" pauses likely end up granting an extra tick or two, along with the pause in the beginning - the estimath seems to work out. And good on you for running the test as thoroughly as you did. Sorry if I came off too combative in my first post, I'm having a cranky day on these forums

<3 Oh, and I found this earlier today, and it made me think of you: Operative/Scoundrel HPS Spreadsheet

Some sort of significant burst-heal capability (ala Swiftmend) would be adequate compensation for no ability to directly mitigate incoming damage; it's just difficult to avoid a nerf to the Sorcerer/Sage shield without adding something very big like that to the other classes. Also, I just learned my understanding of Shield Probe was wrong. I thought it absorbed a moderate amount of incoming damage PER ATTACK for 15s; I see now that it absorbs a fixed amount and then ends. I didn't really flesh it out, but I was kinda relying on my misconception of shield probe to make it different from the Sorcerer/Sage shield. Rather, if it worked in my misconceived way, it would synergize with our HoT's, which would be neat.

Bobudo the Day-Maker has a nice ring to it. As to RuQu's statements: As always, 100% correct, and I didn't mean the slightest insult by excluding Mercenary/Commando healers from my original post; I just believe that they (you) are in a less precarious position right now. I absolutely, 100%, beyond all shadow of a doubt believe that Operative/Scoundrel healing is going to die in this game if immediate action is not taken. It's not a threat, promise, exaggeration, cry for attention or anything else. It is a factual assertion based on what I believe is a growing trend: non-healers are beginning to recognize the weakness of the class and are starting to exclude it in favor of other classes (primarily Sorcerer/Sage). I haven't access to the numbers Bioware has, but I'd wager that their data reflects my gut feeling.

Check out the Healer Request Compendium created/curated by RuQu; I summarized my ideas on fixing the class there. That said, that's an ambitious list - I am under no illusion that the Devs will actually fix all of the issues I've identified. In the short term, I think the primary required fix is to remove the target limit (but not the range limit) from Recuperative Nanotech/Kolto Cloud, and to buff the healing done to ~85% of the Sorcerer/Sage AoE over the same timeframe. I think that a ~15% reduction in healing power is balanced given RN/KC's lack of a movement restriction; any more of a reduction and we would continue to be disfavored compared to Sorcerers. (the instant cast of the ability is warranted by the cost of the skill (30% of our energy pool; Cf. 15% of the Sorcerer/Sage force pool) Furthermore, it's duration and tick time must be shortened; AoE healing effective enough to merit bringing a Operative/Scoundrel healer must account for current fight mechanics - attempting to heal the fall damage incurred to the raid during Soa over 18s would be impossible. Most people view the stationary nature of the Sorcerer/Sage AoE as a disadvantage; you must also remember that it has a significant advantage: anyone outside the cast radius can step into the AoE circle for X% of the benefit. During the Soa platforms, this means that a target outside the circle when cast will still receive 80-90% of the benefit. The Operative/Scoundrel, on the other hand, must have every target in range at the time of the heal. My personal long-term vision for the class is to have it developed into a HoT based healer, using KP/SRMP as a gateway to enhanced flexibility and synergy. However, regardless of my vision, each of those issues in the Healer Request Compendium must be addressed in a timely fashion; but I think the change to RN/KC would put us on life support long enough to enact more long-term changes.