Sheesh! I go away for a few hours for sleep and the thread explodes! And nice job Touch and Aeon for turning a troll into an actual contributor. I've got your "facts" right here, buddy! lol And I actually like to farm instances, such as for valor points in WoW (or whatever the points-for-gear were called). Which a nice cross-server LFD tool allowed me to do. Anecdotal, anecdotal, anecdotal facts.

Perfect analogy with the pick-up basketball/soccer game. I'm not there to learn who your are, get your life story, and become part of your family (aka join a guild). I just want to play a quick game with/against you for FUN! Then get the **** out and do other things.

Plus I think our logical arguments and willingness to compromise might be drowning some trolls.

Sooooo, you basically want what is in there now? That tool works SO well. And for reference, look how well similar tools worked in WoW. They had to keep replacing them because no one used them. Specifically look at the descriptions of the Burning Crusade tool to the beginning of Wrath of the Lich King tool. http://www.wowpedia.org/Dungeon_finder#History I for one want a tool that works right away and one that a majority of the players will actually use. Which hopefully Bioware will introduce with patch 1.2? PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Bioware!

Love that you are trying to find something different to solve this problem. That would be great if the problem hadn't been solved in so many other MMO's. Don't attempt to tell me how to play this game nor call me and a HUGE chunk of the playerbase "lazy". Can I have your stuff when you leave?

Thank you for at least being willing to compromise. I understand the reasons people initially want to try intra-server first. How about the compromise of having checkboxes for both? (though my personal opinion is that both of those will fail and we'll eventually see only cross-server, but I don't quite have the evidence to back it up) "ezmode" LOLOLOLOLOLOL Until the first time you have the tank attempting to complete their class quests while the rest of the group waits in the instance, as someone stated happened to them in an earlier post. There is a reason the LFD in WoW teleports people, and convenience is only one of the reasons.

The line I like best is: "um okay but thats not the way this guild works btw because ppl in it have to work together". Yep..."community". *********** trolls.

The following link is how I think most "community" people act to get groups together or whatever (from mintchiplol Twitter "This is why being a female in a video game is not cool /most/ of the time."): https://twitter.com/#!/Mintchiplol/status/161936138943217665/photo/1

Yes please come to 2012 game design and make buffs and Sprint persist through death. If it's a bug, then I'm sorry but PLEASE fix this.

I like all of the fast food analogies from earlier. Yes, a LFD cross server system may seem like McDonalds fast food to some people, but it's the best ********n meal a lot of us have had all day. It's fast, easy, convenient and makes us full and happy. Just like a cross-server LFD and LFR have done for WoW. Now the reverse, the "community" people are like the *********** vegan ******es I see out there who want to force a lifestyle onto people. Yes, to YOU it may seem like the best thing for your body/soul/the-universe/karma/good-feelings/vishnu but to us it just tastes bad, doesn't make us full, and forces us to have to wait hours to find the "right" food, cook it for another hour, then take an hour to eat it. Then when we **** it out, we have to make friends with it and cry and sing kumbaya that we had such a good time. All the while I've run another dozen dungeons, had fun times with 9 out of 10 of them, and got some decent loot in the process (and in SWTOR's case, some decent social points). (And I actually don't like McDonalds IRL, btw, but LOVE LFD) Also, not everyone has the same definition of Ninja. We need to get past that as a "community". And I do like the anonymity of cross-server LFD. Not to be a bad player (which some of you seem to assume) but to give me a shield in which to be myself or to be the fly on the wall at the party. Just there to help out as needed, but don't want to intrude on anyone's good time. Which by the silence of a lot of LFD/LFR players, may not be a minority opinion.

Again and again and again the same incorrect statements. At WORST the queue times in WoW are 40 minutes. Most average 15-30 minutes for DPS. I NEVER wipe at dungeons except maybe when they first put in the really hard Heroic Dungeons at Cata's release (and I've done thousands of LFD runs). Random kicks? How much of an ******e are you to get kicked randomly? Even if your statments were true, how does that compare to NEVER getting into FP's?

Instead of a penalty for choosing same-server LFG, perhaps they just add a bonus for cross-server. Not sure actively punishing people for their choice is a good thing. (besides in my eyes they are already punishing themselves for choosing same-server LFG because it will take longer and they get exposed to less people)

There is. http://www.swtor.com/community/devtracker.php First page of this thread has the Dev quote: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=184796 Originally Posted by DamionSchubert Improving our LFG system is high on the list of features that Systems Design wants to add to the game. We want this to be good not just for helping people find Flashpoints and Operations to run, but also other multiplayer content like heroic missions. A key emphasis will be on advertising for specific role needs (healer, tank, DPS). This feature is currently in the design stage, and once this feature has moved beyond this to a development stage and has a firm ETA, I'll be coming back to you guys to give more details. We've known we would need to revisit this feature for a while. In the level-up game, finding players isn't too rough because, with few exceptions, everyone in that level band is either on your planet or on the fleet. Once more and more players hit endgame, and are spending their time in more places, the need for this feature is going to increase. Note that right now, high level players have the opposite problem - there aren't enough other players up there to group with. This problem will dissipate as the game ages, and more players reach the later levels. That being said, our design team doesn't philosophically believe that cross-server Flashpoints are good for the game at this stage in the game's lifespan. There is huge social pressure to not be a jerk that goes away when the odds that you will never see these people again is high. I'm not saying never - there may come a time in the future where we reevaluate this - but at least in the short term, we believe this will cause more damage to the community than good.

Great idea! But they should at least give you some level 50 amount of credits for each Class Quest completed IF they also boost the instanced area enemies to be level 50.

I agree. WoW "borrowed" everything. But they made each feature so much better than other games, IMHO. One of the reasons they were so popular and why I played for 7 years. If you know anything about game development, fixing bugs and adding features are two completely separate things. There are teams to do both, not interfering with each other in the slightest, except maybe to borrow someone's expertise to fix a specific bug or if they worked on that specific buggy feature. So saying they need to fix bugs BEFORE adding in a better LFG doesn't actually work. They can do both.

Not sure if Bioware is "anti cross server", as only Bioware knows what they are for/against. But they DO feel "our design team doesn't philosophically believe that cross-server Flashpoints are good for the game at this stage in the game's lifespan." So it's up to us to convince them that cross-server IS good for the game at this stage of it's lifespan. I see two things from this: 1. It's VERY hard to engineer a cross-server system so they are waiting until it is absolutely needed before putting precious resources to a system which may or may not be needed at launch/close-to-post-launch. 2. They were hoping they had more time in which to add a cross-server system, but unfortunately, their player base moves faster than they want/expected and we feel we NEED a system now or "very soon", because a not-insignificant amount of us are not able to play Flashpoint/Operation content even while leveling, let alone endgame.

Yep, WoW is the standard (with EQ1 and UO before that). Sorry Aeon, I like a lot of your opinions but not only is WoW the standard, a LOT of SWTOR's systems are based on WoW systems. I actually love Star Wars (of course) and Harry Potter, but not Twilight (because I'm not a girl/woman). What is wrong with liking a popular system/movie? I agree, not everything "popular" is "good", but in WoW's case, I find that popular does equal good.

Found some fun links about how the "community" fight is still going on in WoW. mmo-champion: (scroll down the page past the Pet Battle info) http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2617-Mists-of-Pandaria-Pet-Battles-Blue-Posts-Fan-Art-Curse-Weekly-Roundup?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter And a direct link to the thread with Blizzard supporting their tools and pretty much putting it to the people who think "community" was better before LFD. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3225584072?page=4#77 So basically, this fight WILL NEVER END! Here's a link to the first Bizz post saying the OP's opinion is subjective. http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3225584072#20

I just used Legacy as an example to make it easier for Bioware to leverage an existing system to be similar to Blizzard's upcoming Battle Tags system. They can create a whole new system, if they feel that is better. Either way they will probably need to make a system for friend-ing people cross-server at some point, to help with the sense of "community".

Unwilling or unable, what's the difference? I get that you seem to not like people that aren't up to your level of skill, but either way PUGS were having a hard time with the content. Thus, Blizzard should have added Leveling Dungeons for levels 80 to 84, Normal Level 85 dungeons, and then had Hard Level 85 dungeons that were perhaps NOT in the LFD interface. (All this from Devolore on Tankspot, btw. Not my original idea).

Battle Tags should go a long way to alleviate this, as it's just a global "username". And agree Real ID was a godawful idea. Would be nice for Bioware to have made our Legacy names universal for ALL servers, so then we could maybe have added people based off their Legacy name. Though, I now, some people like still being anonymous so they could just turn off the option to allow people to know your Legacy name. I see nothing wrong with a "dumbed down" version of Operations, as you put it. Some of us aren't *********** A-list gamers and just want to see and play the content and maybe get some loot in the process. Plus Bioware already said they made Normal mode Operations for the casual player. So why not make it like WoW's new Looking For Raid? Cross-server and relatively "easy".

I was wondering if that might be a problem, people asking for everything. The problem Devolore brought up with Hard mode Dungeons/Flashpoints in WoW was that they had to be nerfed in Cataclysm because most average PUG's just weren't capable of handling any kind of advanced Dungeon tactics. NOT a swipe at PUGS, I prefer PUGS and I prefer "easier" dungeons. I just want to see the content and get some slightly better gear. Well here is my new compromise. Keeping Hard mode Flashpoints cross-server and adding in new Nightmare level Flashpoints which are same-server. Only problem I see with this will Bioware be willing to add another tier to Flashpoints? Cross-server: Normal mode leveling Flashpoints *NEW* Normal mode Level Fifty Flashpoints Hard Mode Flashpoints Normal mode Operations Same-server: *NEW* Nightmare mode Flashpoints Hard/Nightmare mode Operations

I just wonder if there is a compromise. Have the Normal mode leveling up Flashpoints be cross-server. Then create a new Normal mode Level Fifty version of Flashpoints and make them cross-server. Also make Normal mode Operations be cross-server. But keep any Hard/Nightmare mode Flashpoints and Operations same server to keep a sense of "community". Not sure this would work, but it's kind of what WoW is doing with Raids, why not apply it to both Flashpoints and Operations. Plus this way the Normal modes could be made "easy" for PUGS, which usually need to be kind of dumb-ed down for the "average" player. To sum up: Cross-server: Normal mode leveling Flashpoints *NEW* Normal mode Level Fifty Flashpoints Normal mode Operations Same-server: Hard mode Flashpoints Hard/Nightmare mode Operations

It would be nice if we could edit the fist page of this thread with all of the new info (especially your nice list Touch). Does anyone know Obi-Wun so we can do that? And yeah, looks like we've definitely lost some posters and traffic by being moved to Suggestions. Is there a way we can cross-post things without getting the wrath of Bioware?

Found another great Devolore tankspot video about bringing back the community by having Normal dungeons, then Hardmode dungeons, both using LFD. Then having Hard-Hardmode dungeons that don't use LFD and can only be used by manually getting groups together, which MAY or MAY NOT bring back a sense of community. Also, WoW is adding speed run dungeons in MOP (the next xpac) which might also bring back in a sense of community. Anyway, here's the video queued to the good spot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQK2tcP5Jxc&feature=colike#t=04m42s