Volxen
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Posts posted by Volxen
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Healing sorc/sage by far has best survivability and self-reliance in regs. These healing machines can carry a bunch of average players like none other. You also can manage multiple dps on you, and take a beating before needing to use any of the multiple escapes at your disposal.
Now, if you mean dps classes, then in regs I'd say juggernaut/guardians. Simple because they can dish out great damage and they have really strong defensives and a self-heal. I see juggs frequently top dps and pull great protection numbers too.
Sorc/sage dps madness spec is quite self-reliant too. Not as sturdy as a sorc healer, but they have many escapes and can do so much damage from distance. You can control how the fight goes with them and escape when it gets bad.
Another dps class that has great survivability is the operative/scoundrel. Concealment or lethality are both durable and are very elusive. They have nice self healing and both have fair damage if that's what the player focuses on.
Which spec(s) for guardian/juggernaut?
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Only if you're an Imp.
For the Reps in all servers, its a fighting environment where people don't really bother to make premades. At least, you don't see the Imp premade hordes as often as you do in max lv. PvP -- hence, it actually makes up the "roughly equal win chance for both sides" situation, since both sides are predominantly solo-queue players, and you don't get the premade 4-man arsehats in maxed out gear slaughtering people one-sidedly.
There's a reason why some people consider lowbies and midbies way more fun than max lv.. It's the "no-premade environment" I always talk about.
I wish that were true, but there are premade groups (on both factions) that steamroll in the midbie bracket (41-64) on the Harbinger. You just can't get away from the "premade issue" in this game. Hopefully cross faction queues will alleviate that to some extent -- but then again, it's only the one new warzone that is cross faction, so...
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Which classes have the best solo survivability in regs? Meaning classes that can you can still do well with, even if your playing in an uncoordinated team with no support (no healers, no coordination, etc.) and your up against a very skilled/organized premade that knows what they are doing (CCing properly, focus firing, etc.). I know sorc is definitely on this list, but what other classes/disciplines make the cut?
I've been playing a lot of tactics vanguard (AP PT equivalent) lately, and while it certainly has great burst, it's too squishy under focus fire so I'm looking into other alternatives.
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enet isn't an escape. or, to put it another way, it's a poor escape. it only works on one person. but in its current form, it would be incredibly op to apply to multiple targets or to reduce the cd, since neither change directly addresses the class's glaring weakness of no feasible escape or oh sh^t button.
to put it another way, I'm not going to win all of my 1v1's, but I have no complaint about my merc's ability to fight 1v1. why would you keep buffing the class's 1v1 prowess when the problem is that it melts under focus but has no escape.
that and...the true effectiveness of enet is the utility to the grp, making it more of an offensive weapon. so you're not really helping them survive longer.
honestly, I thought RO was a very fitting "escape." I just think it's relatively useless since it only works under "ideal" conditions. and it's not worth the cost to use or buff (either have to burn breaker, HO or both to use it when most necessary + heroic utility to make it a better ability is too costly).
But merc is, as I think most of us in this thread can agree, severely underpowered and underperforming compared to the other classes in this game. It's been at the bottom for years. Electronet is the only really good thing the merc class has going for it. I really don't think simply lowering the cooldown of electronet could take merc from being UP to OP. If nothing else, perhaps their damage could be slightly reduced to compensate for the reduced cooldown on electronet.
I still think it's a good idea, because electronet is really the one good thing merc's have that no other class has. Might as well allow them to capitalize on it more often, considering all of the deficiencies the class already has (which is why I don't think the reduced CD would make mercs OP).
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So since merc's damage is fine and the issue is survivability/escapes, what about simply lowering the cooldown of electronet down to 30 seconds? This gives the merc the option to use electronet more defensively, and as a way to help keep melee at bay. And it would be very easy to implement code-wise, as opposed to coming up with a whole new escape for mercs. And maybe lower the cooldown of hydraulic overrides as well.
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The question that needs to be on everyone's mind is.. Why arsenal over IO? Why arsenal over lightning? Why arsenal over MM sniper? When you answer that question in your head honestly, you can then realize what's wrong here. Not only is arsenal eaiser to play than most specs, its highly mobile given the right utility selection, and highly destructive with very good defensive cooldowns. The issue is, so many players that underperform on other classes play mercenary, and desperately want something super easy that takes little effort to achieve high results, and that's exactly what we have here with Arsenal. It sacrifices nothing to have superior mobility with superior damage output. When played properly a mercenary is almost untouchable, if utilized correctly. A ranged player should not take much damage to begin with, I feel like most concerns about merc survivability come from improper positioning and face tanking.
But is it really better than MM sniper? Merc's dont have cover (lea/pull/interrupt immunity), entrench (you can be immune to CC more than 50% of the time as a MM sniper), or the roll escape.
Also, are you talking about arsenal being "completely overpowered" in regs or arenas? Because that video that you linked to was just an 8 vs 8 in Voidstar. Most people seem to agree that mercs do OK In regs, since having 7 other people on your team potentially decreases your chances of being focused fired down right off the bat. But in arenas -- even unranked 4 vs 4s -- mercs are almost always the first target people take down. And in the fact in arenas, none of the three ranged burst specs in this game (lightning, arsenal, marksmanship) are popular. Mercs are definitely underpowered and underperforming in 4 vs 4 and ranked in general.
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TLDR: Matchmaking needs to be introduced before placing any sort of limit on the number of healers on a team. The pugs vs premades matchups are why you see healers being stacked in the first place.
As someone who plays almost exclusively rep on the Harbinger, what I have noticed is that it is far more common to see 3-4 healers (sage or otherwise, but usually sage) on the rep side than on the imp side. In most games, there are usually only 1-2 healers (sorc or otherwise, but usually sorc) on the imp side. DPS is very, very popular on the imp side, and many imp players are very, very good at fulfilling that role. I am talking about unranked warzones here, and specifically 8 vs 8.
I think there are several reasons for this. One is that the imp side is definitely the dominant faction on the Harbinger for PVP. There are a lot of four-man groups (not necessarily always in the same guild) that run the standard 2 dps, 1 healer, and 1 tank. It is not uncommon to also see two different 4-man groups on the same imp team (again, not necessarily all in the same guild).
The fact of the matter is that the imps are, overall, MUCH more coordinated and cohesive than us reps are. Focus fire is a regular occurrence on the imp side; I can’t count how many times I’ve been up against imp teams where it was beyond clear that one person on that team was the “lead DPS”, and every single other DPS on that team set that person as their focus target, so you have anywhere from 5 to 8 people all bursting down us reps one by one. In all of my years of playing this game, I don’t think I’ve been in a single game on the rep side where anyone talked about setting a focus target, or explaining what it is. Unfortunately, I think a large portion of rep players may not even be aware it exists. You just don’t see groups of 4-8 rep players all focus firing the same target in perfect unison like you do with imp players.
So this, coupled with the fact that we currently don’t have cross-server queues or cross-faction matchmaking (although the latter is coming), leads to rep pugs getting repeatedly crushed by skilled and highly coordinated imp premade groups. So how have we responded? By stacking healers, and yes, sage healers in particular. For better or for worse, it seems to be the only solution to avoid having a total massacre when going up against some of the more skilled imp premades. Reps are, overall, simply not as good as imp players at DPS, and are certainly not as coordinated. And from what I have seen, a lot of rep players are solo queuing for unranked warzones, whereas imp players tend to play more in groups. A lot of rep players, even at 65, primarily focus on PVE, and are not aware of even the basics of PVP (wearing PVP gear instead of PVE gear in warzones, getting 2018 expertise as quickly as possible, etc.)
I’m not saying this is an ideal situation, but stacking sage healers is really the only way a team of average skill level (and for the most part, uncoordinated) rep pug players stand a chance of not being absolutely massacred by some of the more skilled imp premades. I’m not even talking about winning against these premades – just not being massacred. Even if you have a couple of people on the rep side who know what they are doing, if they are playing as DPS it isn’t going to be enough to overcome the coordination and the focus fire of the imp premades. So it’s either play as a DPS, and die to imp focus fire no matter how good at DPS you may individually be, or play sage healer to avoid dying as much as possible and to help your teammates do the same. More and more rep players are choosing the latter, because playing a sage healer allows them to contribute the most to the team (by keeping themselves and others alive) and put at least somewhat of a dent in the premades efforts. This is why you see those games with 4 – 6 sage healers on the rep side. I've gotten to the point where I play my sage healer almost exclusively, because playing any other class on the rep side feels like a wasted effort.
I think what this comes down to, simply, is that no one likes to die over and over again and spend a large portion of the match in the respawn area. And that is exactly what happens to rep pugs when you put them up against skilled imp premades, unless the reps stack sage healers.
The solution isn’t to simply limit the number of healers to 2 per team, as some have suggested. At least on the harbinger, that in and of itself would destroy rep pvp and turn it into even more of an imp premade steamroll fest than it already is. I agree that there should be a cap to the number of healers on a team (although I would argue it should be 3, not 2), but that needs to be done in conjunction with making ALL of the warzone maps cross-faction, and preferably also in conjunction with cross-server queues as well (or better yet, maybe a mega server).
The conclusion I’ve come to long ago is that the problem of stacking healers has always been a consequence of the pugs vs premades issue, in particular rep pugs vs skilled imp premades. Stacking healers has literally become a survival mechanism to deal with going up against highly skilled premades. If you want to see an end to games with 4+ sage healers, then we need true matchmaking that puts an end to the pugs vs highly skilled and coordinated premades matchups once and for all.
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I made a post on EH forums asking about the state of the server and I mostly got back is that EH is not the place to PvP anymore. Queue times outside of 65's are almost non existent. I made a lowbie toon and logged in last night at around 9pm EST and waited 30 min for a pop and when it did it was the same 6v6 nonsense Shadowlands has. I'm wondering if Harbinger is the last ditch effort for PvP.
I play mostly rep side on Harbinger, and the queue's pop fairly fast, both in lowbies and in 65's
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Since 4.0 tank stats are pretty much useless in PvP now. This is why you see armies of "Skank Tanks" running around these days. Basically if you want to be a tank stack as much endurance as possible and put the rest into power and crit. Your survivability will go way up and you can actually do enough damage to kill someone.
Also, are all three tank classes (vanguard, guardian, and shadow) equally viable at "skank tanking", or are some tank classes better at it than others?
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Yeah, but what you forget geezer is that most of you have no idea what the hell you are doing most of the time in this game, especially in PVP and then you have those people in pre-mades who think they are good because they have heals protecting them and guards and such, but reality of the matter is they are bollocks like most of you at this game, bar a few who know who I am talking about. So when you come up against say a solo uber player, who is efficient and knows what he or she is doing, and most of you piss about not knowing what you are doing, then expect a rant, period. If you do not like that, then simply do not play PVP, it is that blunt and simple geezer. You think he can av a rant like I can at you?. No, I will show you what a rant is mate, if you want, haha.
I like a good rant now and again, not because of a loss, but because of some of the idiotic things people constantly do in PVP matches which are seriously lamer and brain-dead decisions. From just not working as a team right through to no strategy, just run around aimlessly. Which then leads to a bum bashing, all because most sides just like to run around with no heads.
Oh by the way, Shifted guild your pre-made vs mine, sorry no match. I proved that 2 weeks ago before I had to go away on business and deal with real life, you do know what real life is yes Shifted?. I am going to prove it again because I think you hide behind loads of people for protection, and I will tag any guild who I think uses hard protection because most are unable to solo and are if I am being blunt again, inept at PVP in solo form. What I am saying is, your rubbish. On your own, bar a few respectable individuals you have in that guild, you are weak solo and rely too heavily on your pre-mades.
What was it, my last war zone a few weeks back, Shifted all over me like a fly on a turd, but unfortunately for them, I have my lads with me, so your over 1m damage on me was futile, as I have one of the best pre 65 healers that I group with, lol. So not only did we own you in that match, but I took 1m damage and dealt 1.5m damage. You had nothing to say about that did ya?. You only have something to say, like most of you, when I am solo pvping, because you all gang up thinking you can intimidate, ha ha. Na, nothing can intimidate me
. I can intimidate you though obviously, because when I am owing you lot, all of a sudden your mouths have all of a sudden tightly shut up. Strange a?.I can categorically say this, that bar a few guilds, they know who they are who I respect in my own way, but the rest patch over their inefficiencies with specific groups to cover over their inept PVP skills.
Have a nice day, and how is that for a rant sir.
Kind regards
Fat'Edd
Why place so much emphasis on 1 vs 1 ability in a team-based game?
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a tank with no healer is basically a poor mans dps in this meta.
Yes, that's what struck me as odd -- I feel like I can facetank a whole lot more on my sage healer than I can on my vanguard tank. Though it does sound like it will get better once I get my vanguard up to 65 so I can start heavily stacking endurance and become a HP meatshield (hopefully).
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Since 4.0 tank stats are pretty much useless in PvP now. This is why you see armies of "Skank Tanks" running around these days. Basically if you want to be a tank stack as much endurance as possible and put the rest into power and crit. Your survivability will go way up and you can actually do enough damage to kill someone.
I keep hearing the term "skank tank" on these forums, so I want to make sure I correctly understand what it means. A "skank tank" is someone who is tank spec (e.g., shield specialist), but just takes DPS gear and stacks endurance and then power/crit, correct? As opposed to a DPS spec (e.g., Tactics) doing the same thing (stacking endurance and then power/crit).
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Are tanks not supposed to feel "tanky" in midbies (41 - 64 bracket)? I was playing on my level 55 vanguard tank (shield specialist spec) last night, and whenever I was without the support of a healer, I was getting bursted down pretty fast. It felt like I was playing Tactics, except I hit like a wet noodle but would go down almost as fast. In particular, I had several warzones where I was solo guarding the grass node on civil war, and I kept getting bursted down by a lone assassin who kept trying to take our node. His opener from stealth alone would nearly take away half of my health, and all of his subsequent attacks were so hard-hitting. He did seem to know what he was doing and was playing his class well, but it just surprised me how quickly he was able to burst me down in a 1 vs 1. It feels like I'm currently doing about half or less the damage in shield specialist that I would normally do in tactics, yet I'm only surviving maybe a few more GCDs in tank spec. In other words, the reduction in damage seems to be far, far more than the increase in my defenses and survivability.
So I'm just wondering, is that simply how it is for tanks in midbies? Will I feel a lot more "tanky" when I get to level 65 and have a set of fully modded and augmented tank PVP gear (including the tank set bonus)?
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...but I digress.
Personally, despite some nerfs and balancing I feel the "higher performance margin" in terms of PvP tanking still goes to the guard/juggs as a whole. Huge number of active defensive skills, higher resistances, and an assortment of all kinds of utility give a very unique level of versatility to guard/juggs in PvP.
Ironically, this is less prevalent in ranked 4v4 matches, where the "skank+heals" meta largely depends on the tank to be a guard-bot to the healers, and at the same time serve the DPS-role. Perhaps this is why many people feel that the efficiency of guards/juggs have fallen a bit, since assuming the DPS-role (obviously) forces a lot more offensive action to the player. So it kinda seems like the skanks aren't doing as much defensive action as other tanks.
Hower, things are a bit more clear in an 8v8 situation, assuming both teams are at least average or above average level in skill, and have similar and balanced team composition consisted of adequate balance of heals, deals, and meatshields. In this scenario where a larger scale of combat ensues, I believe when a guard/jugg stops thinking about being a 'skank' and really puts his head to solely protecting ALL of the teammates in his team, then no other class comes close.
Two hard stuns, AoE stun, AoE slow(+team speed buff), single taunt, AoE taunt(+team shielding), 1 offensive gapcloser, 1 friendly gapcloser with +mitigation buff... a guard/jugg that's 'in the zone' to protect the team is just crazy. The amount of damage/kills is just pathetically low, but the amoung of actual 'assists' he gives to the team members to help survive the situation (which, of course is not recorded as a 'stat' except protection numbers) ... I don't think any other tank comes close.
....of course, it also means that the overall level of experience and practice required to maintain an effective tanking regime is that much higher than all other tank types. It's certainly not easy, that's for sure. There are like 20 active skills each class has in this game, and comparing how much of them I use how frequently, my Vanguard and my Shadow is a lot less busy and a lot more pleasant to manage than my guardian. When I'm tanking in PvP with a guardian, my left hand feel like arthritis after 5 minutes... Q... E... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.... ctrl+1, 2, 3, 4, 5... shift+1, 2, 3, 4, 5... alt+1, 2, 3, 4, 5... C.. V.. F... Z... X... R... and I still don't have enough hotkeys...
To me, an Arse/Shad tank feels more like a 'offensive/tactical semi-tank', and PT/Vans feel more like 'support/utility tank'... whilst guard/juggs feel like a pure-breed 'protector' type, classic tank.
Thanks for going into more detail! I'm really trying to learn as much as I can about the three tanks, as I want to make a true protector type tank as you call it. Not a skank tank, but a true tank that protects everyone, gets very high protection numbers, and is extremely difficult to kill. I'm fine with hitting like a wet noodle, I just want to be a true tank. I was actually hoping to do that with a vanguard, but from your post it sounds like guardian is a far superior choice for being a true tank. My concern though is all of the keybindings it seems to require, and the fact that it's a true 4 meter melee class, which I'm not used to playing. My preference is to fulfill the role of "protector tank" as a vanguard, but I also don't want to be gimped in that role if the guardian is truly the better choice.
Do vanguard tanks simply not have as much survivability as guardian tanks? I know guardians are the king of DCD's, but I thought that was evened out by the fact that vanguards have more passive mitigation? Will I never be able to achieve the same level of tanking potential and survivability on a vanguard tank as a guardian tank? And finally, can vanguard tanks get as much HP as guardian tanks when endurance is stacked in your mods and augments?
I also play primarily in regs and prefer 8 vs 8, if that makes any difference.
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Jugs are best for guarding as they have best mitigation, so they are the best 'real' tanks. They have so much mitigation that people mostly just use dps gear.
PTs are much much easier to play and get results. That's the only real reason. And as most decent pvpers have left long ago and pvp is full with casuals - people just use the easiest tank.
In the pvp where people can't focus, chain stun, position etc AND terrible matchmaker - you don't really need a tanky tank. Especially with sorc heals. And funny thing is how tanks are asking for even more defense. That's just so stupid and only shows that competitive pvp is dead.
What is it that makes PT tanks easier to play than the other two tanks?
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This is also something I have been wondering about. With healers it's pretty clear cut -- sorcs are definitely the best healing class right now bar none. But with tanks, it doesn't seem so clear cut -- I've seen people make cases for why each of the three tanks are the best in PVP, from their perspective.
One thing I am curious about, though, is why are PT tanks more dominant than the other two tanks in ranked matches (both solo ranked and group ranked)? This is something I've noticed both from reviewing the season 6 leaderboards (for both solo ranked and group ranked) and from reading several different threads on these forums. In particular I found it interesting that PT tanks are significantly more common than jugg tanks (according to the leaderboards) in solo/group ranked, considering all of the DCD's at their disposal that PT tanks don't have. Can anyone from the ranked scene shed some light on why PT tanks are seemingly preferred over jugg tanks for ranked (and over sin tanks for that matter)?
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I'm just curious, but in 8 vs 8 is there ever a situation in which having, for example, one healer and one tank is actually better than having two healers? From the perspective of a healer, it seems like having another healer to cross-heal with (and of course to help you with healing all of your team mates) is more beneficial than having a tank to put guard on you. Especially if both you and the other healer are sorcs.
I know guard is strong in PVP, and that healer-tank combos can be difficult to deal with. But with the current meta, it seems like two sorc healers >>>>>>>>>>>>> one sorc healer and one tank. Are you better off in regs with just DPS and (sorc) healers and no tanks? Are tanks in regs just a wasted spot?
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It's just force of habit -- and a bad one, at that.
Most usually its from new players with L2P issues. They don't perceive it as much of a problem, and in some extreme cases they don't even know such a function exists. They don't use it in PvE, since after the (relatively) recent changes all companions can heal and survive well without having to worry about setting companion gear.
In other words, they rarely have any content in PvE that requires active guard, so they rarely -- if ever -- use it in the first place. Then they enter PvP, and due to lack of experience + reality of PuG matches, many of them never get to truly experience just how "gamechanger" a well placed guard can be.
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Not surprisingly, there's also the other end of the problem, where the "guardee" doesn't really support the "guardian" well. Countless times I try to identify the most important member of my team, and actively guard the person... except, as an opposite case, the guy doesn't realize that he's being protected, and just acts like as if he is playing solo.
Yeah, it's been 3 years since I've last played SWTOR, but in my prime, I've practiced the game enough to actively switch guards upon situation to protect different people by the second, while at the same time fighting 2~3 guys simultaneously. Then after I've returned to SWTOR, start levelling a new alt, and in the WZ all I see is people who don't really know what "guard" means. Times like these I almost understand why some tank players don't really bother to guard people. (Of course, not that they don't use guard under the same reason as myself)
Even still, without even a single drop of heal received, I still try to guard as many people as possible as often as possible -- but it is getting increasingly difficult by the day.
They really, really need to have protection numbers come up like healing numbers do. They could make it come up in blue, which is the same color as the guard shield itself. I don't know why it hasn't been done, as I know I'm not the first person to think of this.
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I base my critique on how easy it is to kill a particular class when played by a competent player and the predictabilty of which skills they will use in a fight.
Easy button = very prdictable rotation
Little more skill = little more varied rotation harder to predict
Hard = complicated rotation, unpredictable
Maybe this explains why I am having such a hard time with sharpshooter gunslinger (marksman sniper). I've been playing the class on and off for years, though I just recently returned to the game in 4.0 after taking a year or so off. I really, really want to enjoy sharpshooter gunslinger, as I've always liked the idea of a ranged class that has leap/pull/interrupt immunity while in cover (not to mention CC immunity with hunker down/entrench). But I always go down so fast when the other team has decent or really good players, and I struggle to maintain distance from melee players even with leap/pull immunity.
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How would you rank each class/spec from easiest to most difficult? By easy/difficult I am mostly talking about ease of rotation, but you can also factor things such as survivability, escapes, and defensive cooldowns into your ranking.
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I took a long break from SWTOR and just recently returned, so I'm not completely caught up on the 4.0 meta. But out of the three tanks, which is the most viable for PVP in 4.0? In particular, which tank is the best for guarding healers and keeping them alive?
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I am asking this primarily in regards to 8 vs 8, not 4 vs 4. My girlfriend always plays a healing sage in warzones, and we frequently like to heal together. I have all three healers myself, but I am just wondering if the team already has one sage healer, what is the best healing class for the second healer to be? Another sage, or a scoundrel or commando?
In case anyone responding only plays on the Empire side:
sage = sorcerer
scoundrel = operative
commando = mercenary
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How would you rank the three healers in 3.0? Which healer is the most mobile? Which healer is the best for PVP in 3.0?
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Which disciplines? Some of those classes have disciplines that suck and others are petty strong.
Also, only dps? Becuse if you're counting heals, then you have to add in Mercs/Commandos as well, as they are stronger than the other two healers at the moment.
Really? Scoundrels/Operatives are no longer the best healer for PVP?
. I can intimidate you though obviously, because when I am owing you lot, all of a sudden your mouths have all of a sudden tightly shut up. Strange a?.
Which classes have the best solo survivability in regs?
in PvP
Posted
Any particular recommendation as far as op vs sin? I've never really played either of the two stealth classes before, so I don't know their respective strengths and weaknesses.