gramz
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Posts posted by gramz
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The "off-spec" sorc healer healed more than all the pure healers? I find this thread suspect~
except he didnt, his overhealing was way higher than anyone elses.
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I don't have mumble but I could always go grab it. I'm bored literally 90% of the day anyways. I know my guild and I have been trying to think of legitimate ways of how to confirm kills but we always could find flaws in it- hopefully some bright idea will spark soon.
Time stamped codex entries which are crawlable by the website.
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You are missing one big thing, ignoring it every time I say it.
let me try to put it clearer.
16 man hard mode.
During enrage - within ~15 meters of thoth he has a pulsing aoe that does 8k damage a tick.
I'm not talking about the spikes (though those do hit for 8k also).
You can't heal through the damage on that many people on 16 man hard.
The person with the reticule pretty much has to have a dedicated healer to keep them alive while they are placing it.
Pleaes refer to todays patchnotes, it would appear the AOE dmg in 16 players was bugged. So our strategy should work. He is also no longer immune (never was, tooltip just stated it) So again, our intended strat would work.
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This is simply not true. If leadership of the top end raiding guilds could keep their members in line this would not be a big deal. We do not need a company to make such tight restrictions that it forces members to behave. Strong leadership and some common sense, and this site should be more than capable of doing what the community wants it to.
Its the "trolls will be trolls" attitude that many top guilds accept from their members that creates situations like this. Maybe stop looking at bioware and look in the mirror instead? (this is not directed at the quoted poster, but the community in general).
Time stamped codex entries that the website can grab itself is the only way to have a true ranking. Otherwise it doesnt matter if all the top 30 raiding guilds agree to use this site and give up their egos because they arent the number they were placed in the "ranking thread", one random guild from a small server that hasnt even run a full op can go like "OLOL WORLD #1" and spam it all they want, thus rendering the entire idea null and void. Hell it doesnt even have to be an entire guild, it can be just one dude with like an hour of free time. We as top raiding guilds, have no control over that.. at ALL, however Bioware can implement a system that would allow a website to be designed where such a thing is not possible. Its not very hard, wowprogress has had it right for a long time.
Until Bioware implements this, the only other temporary solution would be to require combat logs of the kills. Combat logs, while doctorable, take alot more effort to get right than a simple screen shot. Like draxxen said, require like 12 combat logs for a 16m kill, and 6 for an 8man kill.
edit: this is the internet, not your local bowling league, people are not always honest.
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Covered well by both your posts, just throwing in my support for the AoE knockbacks to return in Nightmare. I stood next to Toth and cranked out damage last night. Had the spires worked properly it would have been a simple fight for melee, with very little movement and tons of uptime.
Also very funny to see the strat we tried a few times last week (hitting Toth with the big circle) actually work now
we spent an hour hitting random things with the rock, it was fun. Glad to see we were on the right track.
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are you doing 8 or 16?
this was from 8man
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Toth and Zorn
- Several changes have been made to Toth and Zorn to improve the encounter.
- The visual effects for Toth's berserk phase have been improved.
- The cooldown of Toth's Area of Effect Smash ability has been increased after he leaps to Zorn.
- Zorn's Embolden buff now more clearly indicates who is affected.
- Players now receive the correct Codex entries upon defeating Toth and Zorn.
- Knockbacks have been removed from Toth and Zorn's Area of Effect abilities.
- The radius of the ground target for the Rock Spire attack has been increased.
- The visual effects for the Fearful debuff have been improved.
- The enrage timer has been increased in Story Mode.
- Zorn now chases players if there are none in range of his rock toss.
So we got to spend some more quality time on these two tonight, and wanted to give you guys some feedback on the changes made.
I'll work my way up from the bottom.
- Zorn now chases players if there are none in range of his rock toss.
With the reduced damage to the rocks, this change is perfectly fine. Our strategy of out ranging his rocks felt like we were cheesing it and felt cheap.
- The enrage timer has been increased in Story Mode.
This was probably needed, haven't had a chance to test it, but we were cutting it really close in full rakata gear.
- The visual effects for the Fearful debuff have been improved.
Not really noticeable, but I think it looks a little LESS like the Combat Res debuff, which is good. If you are talking about Zorns animation, it is much more noticeable.
- The radius of the ground target for the Rock Spire attack has been increased.
This currently seems bugged. Most attempts the spike would come out first, then the reticule would appear, and then the damage would go out. Since the damage still occurs second this isnt the most game breaking, but its annoying to say the least.
- Knockbacks have been removed from Toth and Zorn's Area of Effect abilities.
A HUGE nerf, I would hope that this mechanic makes its way back for Nightmare, as it is a very nightmareish mechanic!
- The cooldown of Toth's Area of Effect Smash ability has been increased after he leaps to Zorn.
This is very helpful for making the tank swaps and positioning of the bosses, especially with the above change (removal of KB's).
- The visual effects for Toth's berserk phase have been improved.
While the new graphic is very nice, berserk itself would appear to be bugged (either in tooltip, or implementation). The tooltip states that Toth is immune to all damage, deals increased damage, and a baradium toss would remove the effect. Which is awesome, it all works out well for the fight. However, Toth is not immune to damage with the buff. We were able to keep pumping damage into him, and removing the buff triggered the next phase.
- Several changes have been made to Toth and Zorn to improve the encounter.
Overall the encounter is MUCH better than it was last week. The mechanics are implemented more effectively, and are able to be figured out without blind luck.
A potential bug is the reticule placed by Zorn during his rock phase. It would be placed on a person, that person brings it under Toth, and the rock gets thrown at Toth, and all is well. Except... sometimes it would follow the person, then as Zorn started his Baradium Heave cast, the reticule would disappear and reappear on (as we observed) the person furthest away from Toth, making it difficult to remove the buff unless we all stacked under Toth. However the buff doesnt seem to be working as intended so this wasnt much of an issue for our group.
We have not managed to defeat the encounter yet, however we are only 100-150k off, which can easily be overcome with some practice, and look forward to the rest of the encounters in the Operation.
- Several changes have been made to Toth and Zorn to improve the encounter.
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Possible bug scenario:
It seems like the comfirmations and disputes are tied directly to a boss kill. For example. "Pylons HM 16 man" can have -3 reputation associated with it.
Whats to stop guilds from deleting a recorded kill and just resubmitting it? Would that wipe the slate of bad reputation clean?
Just wondering how this works and if you've looked into it.
To answer your first question. Dispute wars should be something that no single guild can do to another. That is why we use a dispute threshold that takes into account both confirms and disputes. If two equally sized guilds start a war like that, in theory neither should be able to have the numbers to push a kill across the threshold.Now it might still happen, people do have friends. Guilds are free to delete kills and re-submit them which would start that kill off fresh. I would love to hear any suggestions others might have to mitigate these kinds of attacks. I would love it if they never happened in the first place but its not like there isn't precedence for it.
That should answer that for you.
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They're acting like 5 year olds, no surprise there. We've been (unsurprisingly) receiving the brunt of their efforts, with such accounts as "Chamillion" (Nox's old gm that left to join us), "WebTrollin" and "Nerf Dialogue Sucks" being created to downrate our kills, with the rest being other Cali Killed Nox members.
The saddest part is, we never went as far as to dispute any of Nox Imperius's kills when they were still around. Our biggest argument with them was over annihilator droid, with us claiming he was bugged to do extra damage (which was later proven correct by a patch note fix) and them claiming it was a mechanic, but we never went as far as to say they never actually killed him.
I dont know why they petitioned so strongly for an independent ranking website if they were just going to ruin it, but they lost the majority of their integrity when they reformed (and, fittingly, they ended up losing credit for all of their earlier kills).
As for the website, it's in very real danger of being taken down by this pettiness if nothing is done.
Like divix posted earlier, just because someone is registering with our names does not mean it is us.
Hell people like taking our names so much, over 3/4 of our raid had to chose new names on the PTS because someone had already taken them all.
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Yeah, I doubt the community views us as "17% reliable" on our kills, seeing as how we've been on good terms with other top guilds like Condemned, Millennium and Retribution, with the only dissenting views coming from Cali Killed Nox out of spite (as well as one very, very determined troll who still posts here even though he quit a few months ago).
Contrary to popular belief, we dont actually hate you guys. I'm not sure where you get that from. And I can tell you our members arent taking time out of their days to go and downvote all your posts. We have more important things to do with our lives, and with our SWTOR time.. like finding an incubator for the unusual egg!
But if your going to dispute our annihilator kill, which is a debate we had a long time ago, we defended it, and theres a thread with 40k views on it, and as far as I can tell, the conclusion is we beat you, and condemned, to that kill. And <BRB BOWFLEXING> beat you guys too, getting it on stream the day after us.
The "community moderated" **** isnt a terrible idea, however in its current implementation it is awful, which is evidenced enough by NDs ~20% reliability, our reliability (whatever it is at) and the fact that the moderator of the site said we can just delete kills and readd them.
Ok im gonna go delete all of CKNs kills, and reset our reliability to 100%. Wait what?
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As for your last question.
When a guild disbands its progress ends, it does not continue. You might have contributed to that progress, but your current guild did not kill that boss, your old one did. An award or accomplishment follows the guild it was done by, not the individual members.
So since 13/16 raiders continued raiding under a new name, because our old GM (who couldnt handle being a GM) gdisbanded without warning at the first sign of major drama, all our work up until that point is lost? No, we then finished out the weeks clear, decided as a guild to go to 8man for the time being, and then reformed to 16 again and as such, our KP kills are at that date.
I appreciate all the attention from all the jealous fanboys, I really do. Also thanks for necroing my thread for no reason at all.
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Yeah pretty much. We took in a few Nox members including the GM so we have as much claim to those kills as they do. Kills do not carry over so dispute it on the site.
Thanks to <Retribution> for the site creation. Looks good.
You took in 2 members, we raid with 10-12 people from the original nox imperius.
They are our kills, why somad?
edit: you want to claim our EV nightmare kills, wait a sec, which POV is the world first annihilator kill from? Mine and Ookini? ok. thanks
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There is another question that concerns me.
From the total heal and HPS you can easy see the lenght of the fight. But they seems really different.
On the first fight: between 225 sec (Arnold) and 273 sec (Cali).
On the second fight: between 302 sec (Cali) and 326 sec (both sorcs).
The second one is not this big, but the difference on the first fight seems alot. I have honestly no idea when and how the parser start the messure.
hm thats interesting, i'll have to look if either of them died early during the fight.
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What kind of coding is accepted in the guild description? yours is so nice and formatted
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I added us to the list as well. Because kills were so long ago, I know I don't have the kill screenshots myself. I went to go edit one of the kills and it said "NUH UH YOU CAN NO EDIT!" So that's what I vote--I'd like to be able to submit screenshots or youtube links later. Especially because to get youtube videos usually requires some sort of processing and that takes time.
It would also be cool if guild members could submit confirming screenshots. As it is, I posted a lot of kills based on when they were posted in our server progression thread.
One final comment: I assume/hope you're going to essentially start with a clean slate for 1.2 progress?
Second the editing part, realized i was putting times in 12h format on a few kills before i realized they needed to be 24h format.
Overall a great looking site, hope it catches on.
Some suggestions (for this content) title runs, prenerf HM soa should be included.
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Not sure if this has been answered, I saw a post or two but nothing to clear. How many bosses are going to be in the new operation in 1.2 ? I read 6 but only 4 drop loot? is there any better info about how many bosses it will have? Any help appriciated
Thanks...Krollx
There are 4 bosses on the lockout, and 4 bosses you encounter.
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Has there been any info on the New World Boss on Voss? Like it's location, pictures, abilities, and some of the loot?
Location is pretty easy to find, there will be a weekly quest.
Check out twitch.tv/zmarg and twitch.tv/ookini there should be two videos from a jugg tank perspective (zmarg) and sorc healer perspective (ookini) of the fight.
The loot he drops is black hole comms, black hole implants, 161 rated bracers and something else, cant remember.
edit: heres mine
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It was the player's off-spec, but he respecced to full healing tree.
Odds are his DPS gear has almost no accuracy on it since he is a Sorc, so the only real difference is likely a slight shift in the secondary stat ratios and he lack of the healing set bonus.
Other than that, he is possibly less experienced at healing, which is potentially reflected in him having the highest over-heal on both fights, although this could also relate to him being assigned a raid-healer role and simply using Salv/Reviv more often.
For clarification, this is correct. Our off spec sorc was full heal spec, and using his DPS gear.
this is my concern. I hope bioware is not tuning encounters to REQUIRE you to have a sorc in raid.the difference on Soa HM (my guild hasn't done NiM) is night/day between having a sorc bubble vs. not.
having an instant cast, repeatable, bubble that absorbs ~10k dmg is rather huge.
Static Barrier Absorbs ~3800.
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This is the #1 thing that logs (and I'm sure BW's metrics) fail to capture, and has a huge impact on the player.
Was Cali sweating the whole time while Draxxen was /clubdancing his way through the fights? HPS numbers alone don't fully capture this key component of balance, effort vs reward.
When doing the mechanics poorly, all our healers were struggling. When we did them correctly, it was a relatively easy healing fight.
(im paraphrasing, but thats the impression we got)
It shouldn't be that difficult to repeat now that we've determined our favorite strategies, but thats just speculation until we actually go back in there and do it.
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Thats actually really interesting. Good to know.
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Sheesh... I didn't know that.
I know this game is awesome , the bestest game ever, you should NEVER criticize Swtor....blah blah blah, but you THINK a game that was in development for 5+ years would have addressed the simple concept of raid loot before hand. :S
The concept is actually well thought out, and implemented rather well for pug raids. The only drawback is that there is no way to turn it off for guilds like yourself.
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Would love to see how much the sorc healer used consumption and how much damage he took. My guess in a 16 man ops the consumption doesn't have that huge of a impact as a 8 man ops would. I am a little happy to see that we can still perform but also would like to see a 8man with a sorc and a op/bh healer data.
Looking at two tanks only, if I'm interpreting the logs correctly (this damage appears as unlabeled damage in) it appears Ookini used it 9x and it costed 2907 HP each time, and arnold uses it 3x at 2839 HP cost.
I'm not sure if thats entirely correct, I will double check with them both later today.
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Who was assigned to what? Tanks or raid, etc?
Was everyone in full Rakata with relics?
and perhaps most importantly:
WHO was getting healed by these heals? This all shows nothing about self-healing versus healing others.
I'm not knocking the data...is a good first step to trying to understand...but it's just raw numbers that don't say much about the actual changes in mechanics. I don't think very much can be gleaned from it other than to say "yeah, sorcs can still put out a bunch of healing...can't say to whom or what it required in terms of resource management, but the raw numbers seem ok...altho something is strange in terms of healing output with respect to the hybrid versus full-heal spec in the fight that's a ripoff of Twin Emperors."
Our healers play whack a mole really, with assignments being positioning, not who to heal. Thats not to say we dont say mercs/ops focus on tanks, sorcs raids, however crossover occurs and it is not one persons job to keep someone alive.
Our raid is primarily in full, remodded rakata with orange belt/bracers.
As for who was getting healed, that is essentially irrelevant. We killed the boss, so everyone who needed heals got heals. And without logs from every person in the raid and manually counting the heals in tab for each healer, we wont be able to determine that.
As to your last comment our "off spec sorc" was full healing spec, he was just wearing his DPS gear, since its just that.. his off spec.
Also two tanks isnt twin emps at all, and neither is zorn and toth, are you just saying "requires two tanks and tank switches = twin emps"?
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Great data, Gramz. Thanks for the testing and effort.
If you guys could, I would greatly appreciate it if you could perform the following test and provide the same graphs (plus Effective HPS) that you just posted:
- Run Story Mode EV/KP.
- Run NMM EV/KP (or HM, but I seem to recall Cali saying you guys do NMMs)
(Do one or both, but if only one do the same one on SM and NMM. Separate logs for each boss, please).
The Normal Mode data should look a lot like your current plots of near balance. Imbalance will not show until you hit content that has more damage coming in than one of the healers can handle and the others pick up the slack. NMM logs for each fight should show an HPS cap for the weaker two classes that the third makes up for. It may only show in Effective HPS for the Sorc due to AoE overheal padding their raw HPS numbers.
Thanks again for the effort.
My reply to your thread is copied here in the spoiler tags. It includes a caveat for interpreting that type of data before people jump to conclusions and includes a repeat of my test request I just asked for here.
TBH we have a hard enough time getting 16 on the PTS for explosive conflict, so don't hold your breathe for the logs from KP/EV. Also you say you want content thats harder to see the limits of healers HPS. We will be trying HM Explosive Conflict later this week, that should do it
- Run Story Mode EV/KP.
The Unyielding Title
in Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Posted · Edited by gramz
kill bonethrasher. just got this title on my 2nd alt tonight.