Pity is guilt, avoiding something for how it will make you feel. You feel sorry for Flingeld, show him pity, and push him along a path he cannot walk. Compassion is understanding, knowing why it hurts Flingeld to know he won't become a Jedi, and trying to help him overcome it. Flingeld is not a lesser person because he isn't a Jedi, helping him understand that should be the next step. I can agree the Master was blunt and didn't help Flingeld in accepting the decision. Maybe he intended to do it later, but if we assume he didn't, then that was wrong. Jedi Masters screw up, and some of them are too harsh. Some are too forgiving. They aren't perfect, they're walking an even more difficult path and its only natural they will mess up. The principle behind the Master's decision was correct though. You can't make decisions with emotion clouding your judgement. Pity does not help you or the one you feel it for. The failure on the Master's part was that he didn't help Flingeld move past the sadness of failure. A Jedi needs to learn to let go of their own emotions, and ideally help others move past the emotions holding them back as well. But that bit about the life of a Jedi being hard applies to both master and student in this case, I don't hold it against either of them to have failed in upholding Jedi ideals. Just acknowledge them and say they can both do better.

The Sith are already trained in the Force, an extreme danger. You offer to bring them back to the Light to arrive at the best possible outcome. They don't have to die, they aren't a danger, they can help others. Its not treating them better than Flingeld, its making the best of the situation presented to you. Flingeld shouldn't be viewed as a failure, not becoming a Jedi is not a punishment. Again, being a Jedi is hard. Very hard. It goes against people's natural inclination, and sounds like a drag. A life of servitude, discipline, and restraint. His Master says there's no room in a Jedi's life for pity, and his Master is right. What good is pity? You feel sorry for Flingeld and say he can be a Jedi after all? Why? What purpose did that serve? You've advanced Flingeld to a position he can't live up to because you don't want to feel guilt for being the one that said he wasn't good enough. Why should you feel pity that he won't become a Jedi? Why did he want to be a Jedi? If the answer is anything but "To serve others and follow the will of the Force." then he never wanted to actually be a Jedi, he wanted respect. Or recognition. Or power. Things that Jedi do not seek or desire. If he did just want to help others like a proper Jedi, then you swallow the bitter pill of not being a Knight and take a role doing that some other way. It is okay to admit you don't have the right mindset to be a Jedi Knight, very few people do. I think its implied that Flingeld has failed before, but assuming this is his first real failure and his Master immediately cast him aside, yes it is absolutely possible his Master made a mistake. Jedi are not perfect, there are plenty of examples of them screwing up or making the wrong decision. But the principle behind his Master's decision is solid and absolutely true. If you cannot deal with failure, if you seek short cuts, then you will not make it as a Jedi. Pity is the same as fear or anger or sadness in that it is an emotion that clouds your judgement, it should not factor into a Jedi's decisions. Like all emotions, you need to feel it, acknowledge it, but then let it go and make your decision with a clear mind.

This is largely correct. And there's a reason for it: Being a Jedi is harder than being a Sith. It is not a punishment to be denied the life of a Jedi, its a mercy to people that just can't do it. Flingeld can't deal with the simple adversity of trying and failing to do a mundane task. Why would you keep pushing him along, despite his failings and the obvious fact he isn't suited for this life, and throw him into a warzone. He can't even keep him composure lifting a rock, and you want him to fight Sith? It doesn't mean he's a failure, it doesn't mean the Order will abandon him. It means he's not suited to a life of servitude and danger. Rather than throwing him to the wolves, you bite the bullet and accept that he can't do it, you send him somewhere safe. He can leave the Order, and its even mentioned that his family had hopes for him so they're still aware of him and can take him in. Or he can help the Order in other ways. But he's not going to get a lightsaber and fight the Empire, because he would be killed. And yes, being a Jedi is at odds with the normal life of doing what you want and indulging yourself. Again, being a Jedi is hard. Its not something you do because its really fun or exciting, its a life of service and humility, putting the well-being of others above yourself. Sometimes you have to set aside your feelings of pity, and hurt someone's feelings to protect them from walking the wrong path. A Sith gets to indulge their desires and do whatever they want, their only limit is their own power. And its understandable why that's more fun to play. Its easier than playing a Jedi, and frankly easier to understand. Being selfish comes naturally, using power to benefit yourself feels good. But that doesn't make it the right thing to do. A Jedi has to put aside their own wants and desires, look past their emotions of fear or anger or sadness, and try to understand the bigger picture. Its not easy and its not fun, so its no surprise Jedi fall. But it leads to a better outcome in the end.

A question. The d' there... Eberron?

Along this logic, I have a question. Why is it that if someone says a class that needs to use a large number abilities (like, twenty or thirty or what have you) should be simplified, it is immediately claimed that they really want a class that only pushes two or three buttons? Is there no middle ground here? If I were to advocate fewer than twenty-five buttons would you immediately assume I want three, rather than assuming that maybe I want seventeen (an equally valid guess given the evidence supplied)? I see that logic applied all over the place whenever someone mentions the complexity of the Knight or Warrior. Hard to take any poster seriously when they follow this logic.

Not just for me, of course not. The weight of my opinion is very insignificant. But if my opinion coincides with enough people, then there may in fact be enough weight to change the class. Who really knows? Lots of people lament that classes get buffed and nerfed because of people complaining about them. Might as well use the system to benefit myself.

Give this man a medal.

Because that's why I bought the game. To play those classes, to see that story. I did not watch videos with Bioware employees singing the praises of the story elements of this game just to buy it and have Bioware tell me to go screw myself and laugh at their acquisition of my money. The entire reason I was interested in this game is because it is a continuation of KOTOR. Being told to play another class just isn't going to cut it here. I don't mind playing the other classes, and it's certainly something to do while I wait to see if anything changes, but the Knight and Warrior are why I'm here.

They play the class. They do not have fun. They ask for changes. I fail to see how that's confusing, even if you think the class is fine.

I wish Bruce Campbell would voice my inner monologue.

Now I want this class to be stupidly easy just to make you unhappy. Do it Bioware. I'd rather deal with the 13 year olds than the people making cracks at them.

He wasn't killed by a group of no ones. He was killed by two of the most powerful force users in the galaxy, the best damn Bounty Hunter alive, and an Intelligence officer who could blackmail the Force into getting him a Coke for ***** and giggles. Your character is the new Revan. Accept this.

Crybabies. Interesting choice of words. You think very little of the people who you are complaining about. Can't even give these people with a differing opinion that basic level of respect. Makes it really hard not to ignore everything you say as the braying of a *******, but to explain my point I was saying that your post suggesting that the people who were expressing difficulty with their experience didn't matter because they only represented a small fraction of the populace did in fact invalidate your own argument. To wit, you yourself are part of a vocal minority saying everything is fine. If we accept that one faction of players is pointless based on the percentage of the populous expressing their concerns being relatively small, then we have to apply those standards to every similar faction under an unidentified set minimum of supporters. In other words, your argument doesn't make sense, and by calling everyone who complains about anything a crybaby you are calling yourself a crybaby for complaining about it in the first place.

Maybe you should have a muffin and reconsider how you want to go about arguing your point. Less insulting other people would go a long way.

Vocal minority in general. Vocal minority of players who say they have no problems with their class, vocal minority who say they do. It qualifies as a measuring tool all the same. If we get our way and the class changes, you can feel free to come and make your own threads about how the class is terrible now. Do remember that you will be in that vocal minority of bad players though, I imagine you'll get quite a bit of grief for attempting to affect the new status quo.