RDeanOU
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Posts posted by RDeanOU
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Ask yourself, would your faction have benefited from a civil discussion on the matter?
No, because your mind was made up and no amount of civil discussion was going to change it. Honestly, you've essentially admitted allowing your personal bias into this and yet you expect everyone to swallow your biased decisions without complaint.
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*cough* KMC *cough*
That said I still remember this little gem.Folks have strong opinions *shrug* best leave them be.
LOL
SoonerJBD is my identical twin brother irl. I have never seen that quote and don't know which thread it was from, but neither of us have any patience for biased and arbitrary decisions. As such, I'm unsurprised that he mocked one of these results.
That is too hilarious.
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There used to be a time when people accepted the decision and moved on without attacking the Host or the decision in any way.
I wonder what happened to those times...
I think what happened is that the decisions have become so obviously biased that intelligent people have trouble accepting them blindly.
I didn't see your mind changed on a single issue that was debated from the beginning of this thread. What is the point of the debate when your mind is clearly made up before the whole thing begins?
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If he is, I must know the name so I can befriend him. If he isn't, then he must join KMC. Regardless, what he said is going on my profile biography on KMC regardless. Today will be a day long remembered.
What is KMC?
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Are you from KMC? Not saying you're irrelevant or anything because of that, just curious.
I don't even know what KMC is.
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Ah, suspicions came true. Pretty funny. I question if anyone still takes the Kaggath seriously? The scenario Aurbere wrote was so incredibly bias and ignoring arguments that I'm embarrassed to even be associated with these boards.
That being said, seeing Aurbere get utterly crushed in his Kaggath to the point of extreme humiliation will be both refreshing and entertaining. Good luck to both Beni and white AT-AT dude, not that you will need it anyways.
I tend to agree. These Kaggaths seem to end up reflecting whatever bias Aurbere or Beni started with. They discard valid arguments offhand. The debates are totally meaningless and the decisions often nonsensical and arbitrary. This result is laughable and absurd. Debates are about the strength of arguments. These Kaggaths totally discard that in favor of pre-existing bias.
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OK, back on Mace vs. Revan.
I feel that Mace Windu is altogether superior. He is much more skilled, has a Form Revan has never encountered before, and he is physically superior. The difference between their strength in the Force is not enough for Revan to beat Windu in that manner.
Feel free to debate this or put your own points forward.
I think Mace has a slight edge overall, but I don't think that he is much more skilled as you claimed. Revan defeated Mandalore the Ultimate and Yusanis in one on one combat. These men were every bit as impressive as any of the victories Mace has under his belt. He was one of the most powerful combatants of his time. I simply do not see an argument for why the gap between Revan and Mace is significant.
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If your trying to argue that lightsaber ability reflects one's ability to use the Force, then while that is true it is not absolute. Skill with a lightsaber does not demand an equal or superior level of skill with the Force.
Then why do only Jedi use lightsabers?
Why don't other powerful warriors use them?
I think it's obviously the case that lightsaber skill is a reflection of one's power in the force. Why was Yoda able to perform the physical feats necessary to compete with Dooku and Sidious in lightsaber combat? He wasn't strong or fast without the force. Only because of his power with the force was he able to leap around and fight.
It's why the Jedi Knight in SWTOR is every bit as powerful with the Force as the Jedi Consular in SWTOR. They are each specializing in different types of force combat, but their power level is essentially the same.
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Force powers amp lightsaber abilities, not the other way around.
Skill with a lightsaber is an expression of one's power in the force....just as the ability to use force lightning, force choke, or the Jedi mind trick might be. They are different ways of manifesting one's power in the force.
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To expound upon my point, lightsaber skill and force power usage are different manifestations of one's power with the force. Being able to use the force to guide your actions during combat is what makes the lightsaber a viable weapon for the Jedi. Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to deflect or redirect blaster fire. Using the force to augment one's strength and speed in combat is another way that lightsaber skill demonstrates one's power in the force.
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Fixed. If that's what you meant, as lightsaber skill doesn't have any ability on your ability to wield the Force.
I agree, but there is a difference between that and being totally outclassed. A duel where the duelist only outclasses the other in one category is going to be much longer than a duel in which the duelists outclasses them in both.
Right, which is why when Obi Wan is training Luke in lightsaber combat in Episode IV he says, "A Jedi can feel the combat power flowing through him." Because you know .....lightsaber skill has nothing to do with force ability. This is also why you see so many non force users wielding lightsabers. It was well known as the weapon of those with great combat power, but no connection whatsoever to the force.
Lightsaber skill has everything to do with your ability to wield the force.
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"Someone well trained in lightsaber combat can defeat an opponent who is stronger in the Force."
―Kas'im, that I believe is how.
All this is saying is what I said before:
Lightsaber skill + skill with force powers = power as a force user.
Overall....when you account for lightsaber skill and force powers together as a combined total, Meetra was obviously superior.
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Mace vs. Revan
Mace has a slight advantage in combat, but the advantage is narrow. Revan strikes me as more cunning than Mace.
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I talking about power too...
Right, and you are arguing that Traya was more powerful even though (when their powers were measured against each other in one-on-one combat) Meetra came out on top.
Are we to believe that a rock accidentally fell on Traya or something? Did she slip and impale herself on Meetra's lightsaber? How did she lose while standing on a dark side nexus if she was superior to Meetra?
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From which you'd made the interpretation that the Exile is a superior Force User. Despite the following:
Although Traya was more powerful, the Exile managed to defeat her in combat.
Source: The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia
Its a valid inference to make yes, but it is not fact. It's actually refuted.
Regardless, this is not exactly relevant to the discussion. I'd like to move on.
I never said that Meetra had more skill with force powers. I said that overall she was clearly superior.
Force powers + Light Saber skill = power as a force user.
By that standard, Meetra was obviously the superior force user.
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Bad arguments are bad and it always makes me passionate when someone makes poor arguments.
You cannot credibly argue that one force user is more powerful than another when they actually fought and the result proves you wrong. It's like one quote from an encyclopedia somehow means we should discard the actual results of the battle. That kind of argument makes me bristle.
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I respect canon, shoot me.
But you misunderstand, I stated, based on canon, that she was a superior Force User, nothing more. That doesn't change the fact that the Exile did and always would have beaten her through superior lightsaber skill.
Canon is that Meetra beat her one on one while Traya had all of her force powers and saber skills at her disposal and Meetra had the same. Canon is that they were standing on a dark side nexus when this happened.
If you can't admit that this makes Meetra superior overall compared to Traya then you do not respect canon.
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Because according to the Star Wars Encyclopedia, Traya was a superior Force User. However considering it is never explicitly mentioning, assuming that Traya got a massive amp from Malachor is just that, an assumption.
The Star Wars Encyclopedia can say anything it wants. We know that Meetra actually won the battle so it is pretty clear that she was overall superior.
You are actually arguing that the person who lost the one on one battle was superior one on one. Do you not realize that you are basically saying that what we all know happened couldn't have happened?
I'll have to dig up the quote, but I'm fairly certain something was said about the disadvantage that Malachor held for the Exile.
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You said that Nomi vs Surik would be akin to Yoda vs Fisto.
i.e. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3MXkiLIFuY&t=0m45s, 5 seconds.
Maybe I misunderstood, if so I'd be interested to know how long you'd actually think she'd last. As that is all that really matters considering we both agree she would in the end, lose.
I think the disparity is a matter of how wide the gap is between Meetra and Nomi. You are arguing that Nomi could likely last longer against Meetra than Revan could against Mace and that seems....unlikely to say the least. Nomi has never done anything that indicates she could hang in a duel like this....you are merely speculating that she could based on other things she has done.
If Mace has to rush to Nomi's defense Revan will gain the advantage. I can see Mace sacrificing himself in an effort to save Nomi. That actually seems like the most likely outcome, but after that happens Nomi is toast.
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Combat ability to a combination of lightsaber dueling and Force powers, if the Exile is to outclass Traya in combat she has to, by definition, outclass her in both. She does not, what we have here is a textbook example of a superior lightsaber duelist defeating someone superior in the Force.
But Meetra defeated Traya while Traya was empowered by a dark side Nexus....how....HOW can you argue that Meetra does not outclass Traya overall?
If Traya was so far superior in force abilities and:
Force abilities being an integral part of any lightsaber engagement. Especially considering that Nomi wields a strong style.Then how did Meetra defeat Traya while Traya was at a huge advantage.
It's like you are arguing that Football Team X is better than Football Team Y even though Football Team Y beat Football Team X on Football Team X's home field by 50 points.
We know that Meetra outclasses Traya because Meetra beat her head to head on Traya's dark side turf.
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Then I think we can all at least agree that she'll last more than a few seconds here.
I think most of us can agree more than a few seconds. I do think she falls well before Mace can gain a significant advantage over Revan and that leaves Mace facing the force bonded team of Revan/Meetra all by his lonesome. It's difficult to see how this ends well for Mace/Nomi.
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This guy just... wins.
At everything. I found my new favorite.
I just call them like I see them.
I think Mace is the best duelist here, but Revan is close to him. Meetra is way beyond Nomi.
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You should, though. She isn't fodder.
I don't think she's fodder, but she has the least combat prowess of any of the four people being discussed and it isn't close. I think the difference between her and Meetra is much much wider than any difference that might exist between Mace and Revan.
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What I feel Beni is arguing can be related to a programming term called Abstraction, in which the data itself should be known, not what its implementation is. Likewise, he is arguing that Nomi's position, renown, and power are an indication of what she is capable of.
Even if that isn't the case, he isn't even arguing that Nomi > Revan or Meetra. Just that she isn't fodder. Savvy?
Except that positions, renown, and titles don't win duels.
Kaggath Battlegrounds Semi-Finals: Republic Resistance vs Republic Reborn
in STAR WARS Discussion
Posted
My brother no longer plays the game and at the time that was apparently posted, I wasn't playing the game. It is so hilarious to me that my brother had a similar reaction and it has now been quoted to me. I'm going to call him and tell him about this.