RDeanOU
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Posts posted by RDeanOU
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So basically you just wanted to make a thread bashing the developers of SWTOR. No one jumped on your bandwagon as quickly as you liked, so we are not able to read or are not understanding what you are asking for... when actually you know you aren't really asking for anything because they are not going to redesign the entire game to your preference.
Just a Developer bashing thread, gg.
No, I'm basically pointing out a piece of sloppy design that could and should be improved, but likely won't because of the state this game is in at the current moment.
Also, it doesn't require a complete redesign of the game to address ability bloat. It's impossible to take you seriously when you resort to such absurd hyperbole.
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ya, I pretty much felt the same about Hunter. I didn't care if it was male, female or whatever. All I cared was that it was trying to kill me
= so I got it first.Agent story was the worst for me and the unnecessary twist with Hunter was a great example of why I didn’t like it. Plot twists just for the sake of themselves make a story convoluted and silly. The Agent story was just trying way too hard.
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and now wow is making fights slow and tedious. NOT a recipe for success. WOW gutted some classes when they over simplified them. some classes only have a 3 or 4 button rotation. some even lack AOEs. now they are tripling the hp of all mobs which will only slow things down more. This change will go over like a fart in church.
I actually agree that they went too far with their pruning, which is something I’ve already stated. I feel like a lot of what they removed were abilities that brought flavor to the classes. I think there is a happy medium and there is no effort at all by the SWTOR devs to even look for it.
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You didnt read what I wrote.
I did read what you wrote. I think what you wrote was delusional. This game doesn’t have the built in player base you seem to think it does. That’s why its population is so incredibly low. People aren’t going to keep playing a game that isn’t fun just because it is tied to Star Wars.
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In the end, all you can do is adapt or quit. Bioware only fixes what EA permits them to see as being a problem.
If you have an issue spending money on the cartel market, they'll help you out with that. This issue?
This is a non-issue. Adapt or quit. Those are your only actual options.
It isn’t a non-issue, though I’m under no delusion that it will ever be fixed. If you had actually read my comments you would know that I don’t consider it a game-breaking issue or personally find myself unable to adapt. It’s just a tedious aspect of the gameplay that ought to be improved.
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WOW NEEDS to streamline to keep playerbase. Swtor will always have some playerbase due to it being star wars, and because they understand this, they can put less resources towards the game and still stay alive.
WoW has a massive player base compared to SWTOR. They have resources this game doesn’t have, largely because of that massive player base. WoW fixes these things because it can, not because it has to.
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Level 39s should not post about DCDs, there is a real problem and this is not it.
The devs are easily confused, pls stop
1. I said I’m currently playing a Marauder that is level 39. It is not my first character. It’s not even the first Marauder that I have leveled. I have played since pre-launch and have at least finished the class story of every class, several more than once. This doesn’t make me an authority by any means, but the suggestion that I don’t know what I’m talking about because I’m only level 39 is completely mistaken.
2. The fact that you have that many DCDs before you even reach max level was part of the point. You don’t even have all of the important skills for your rotation, but good thing you’ve got 5 different DCDs to use during the trivial leveling content where you never even need 1.
3. Ability bloat is a huge problem in this game and this is an illustration of it.
4. The devs aren’t going to fix this anyway. It’s never been addressed even though it was clunky when the game launched.
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I always love how you bring up points, and they dare question your skill, or say you want a easier game, when this game is dirt easy. It is just tedious, and could be made much better.
This game is a wow clone pure and simple. (my sig is proof.) Yet, they did not learn from wow mistakes, and now we are left with a old tedious system.
Right. Difficulty isn't my issue. It's never been my issue. My issue is how you get there. You can make the game difficult without making it tedious and bloated in its design.
As a DPS class, I want to make meaningful choices that impact my damage output. I don't want to waste my decision making on which of my many DCD's to use in a particular situation. I don't have a problem making choices. I just want making those choices to feel fun instead of tedious.
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It is not complex. It is tedious.
They copy wow game design as you can see from my sig, but did not update that game design when wow did.
This.
WoW has continued to streamline its design while adding in new content. SWTOR hasn't bothered to do that.
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while they are changing this, they arent making new content.....look at the summer of nerfs for example. I would much rather have the resources spent on new planets, wz, ops etc than a pointless change of dcd's
They aren't changing it. This has been a problem since the game was launched.
Frankly, I prefer it when developers can fix problems with the gameplay and also make new content. It shouldn't have to be a choice.
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Not to be too snarky, but if you want just a 2 button game, there is GW2. Just because you dont like something, does not make it bad or bloated design. A few posters gave you a very good run down of why mauraders have the cool downs. Your problem is that they dont agree with your pov.
Not to be a jerk, but if you would have actually read my comments in this thread you wouldn't have made such a stupid comment.
I don't want a 2 button game. I want complexity and challenge to come from an interesting damage rotation and the content, not from unnecessarily cluttered quickbars full of multiple buttons that do only slightly different versions of the same thing (i.e. reducing incoming damage).
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Unexplainably, everyone on this thread except two people desires it to stay the way it is.
Perhaps EA should also redesign the meaning of words such as desirable or is or self-evident...
To quote someone here :
But we guess you are entitled to your own opinion.
It's really not that difficult to explain. Self-selected, limited sample size is limited. Most of the people who are bothered by this kind of ability bloat moved on from this game years ago. The people posting here are the diehards who aren't open to criticism of what they are used to.
You are entitled to like clunky design, but I'm not going to pretend it isn't clunky just because you like it.
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Perhaps a new game would suit you better, because the groundwork has already been laid, so it is unlikely that they will rip apart the game to change and restructure the entire system to accommodate for removing "clunky design." The clunky design was likely a result of larger prioritized game systems that would allow their "dream" to come to life. When they started creating the content, they needed to counter-balance and instead of making sweeping gamewide changes, they micromanaged and added less grandiose skills that filled in the missing pieces. They cant go back now, so your request seems to be directed more towards a game still in development.
I don't expect it to change anytime soon, mostly because this game likely doesn't have the budget to fix these issues and it isn't something that makes the game unplayable. It's just a piece of poor design that I am pointing out. If they ever wanted to iron out some of this game's problems, this would be a great area to look at, but I'm not holding my breath.
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I am paying very good attention. I see your opinion differes from mine. I believe that challenge can be created in a varietyof different ways, and depending on the complexity of the game, certain implemwntations will have bigger or smaller impacts on challenge. Nothing you have said supports that a different type of challenge would benefit the game holistically. Your proposal would benefit YOU and maybe some of the players, just like keeping it this way benefits other players.
Some people see unique encounters to create challenge as a means to open up bugs and other issues with balance. Every fight that is created has to be based off of some baseline of abilities, multiplied by 12 different specs, to maintain or create balance. It is near impossible to create unique encounters without having more counters available to the uniqueness - thus 5 dcds that work differently.
Dont get me wrong, from a personal standpoint, I absolutely detest having a large number of abilities to rotate, BUT i understand the need for them if I am also asking for new, unique content.
If we cannot agree that it is more enjoyable to be challenged by content rather than the limitations and inefficiencies within one's own kit, then I guess there is nothing more to say. It seems self-evident to me that the former is far more enjoyable while the latter is just frustrating. I would rather have well designed classes that are streamlined and efficient and find challenge in the content. If you prefer to be challenged by clunky class design, I guess you are entitled to your own opinion.
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I think you are choosing what to accept as adequate rebuttals to your claims. Ive already addressed the reasons, logistically, in another post, and it appears they were glanced over. So ill put it in much simpler terms. I'll instead do what you did and see if you accept it as an answer, and because it will mirror your post, it must be accepted by you or your whole argument gets thrown out:
It’s harder to balance (no reason why?), harder for the player to manage, and disallows the player to focus more on fight mechanics and damage rotations.
Sometimes making things easier isnt the best or most obvious move, especially when challenge is an objective. And in this case, making things easier doesnt benefit everyone equally. You want easier management. I want more complex management. Who should BW cater to?
You aren’t paying attention. I’m all for the game being a challenge. The question is how to create that challenge. Good design would create challenge through unique encounters and properly tuned fights. The challenge should come from the content itself, not from being weighed down with a glut of abilities.
Just because challenge is something desirable, that doesn’t mean it’s desireable in every facet of the game. I like chocolate sauce, but it isn’t an appropriate topping for every dish. Defensive cooldowns should be intuitive. It’s not an appropriate or desirable spot to insert challenge into the game.
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It's a false question.
You want simplicity for the sake of simplicity. And then try to reverse the onus.
Actually that got me thinking. What if SWTOR played liked ESO (only other MMO I've played). No cooldowns, you can spam anything as long has you have resources, be it offensive or defensive. Only thing that acts like cooldowns is Ultimate abilities, which take a while to replenish.
Well, perhaps Swtor would also be fun played like that. It so happens that this other games has just two measly action bars - and just the one for the first fifteen levels. Is this tied-in to game mechanisms? I don't know. But it certainly is a fad. Something younger players want.
Wondering if we could have 4 or 5 bars worth of skills, with no CDs.
I know, not what you mentioned, but thinking out loud.
No, it isn’t a false question. I can absolutely explain the advantages of fewer more globally useful abilities. I’ve already done so. It’s easier to balance, easier for the player to manage, and allows the player to focus more on fight mechanics and damage rotation. It’s not simplicity for the sake of simplicity. It’s simplicity with a clear objective reason behind it.
No one has made any effort to offer anything similar in terms of clear advantages to the current design. The most anyone can do is state their subjective preference with nothing supporting it.
If you want to compare it to another game, WoW seems like the obvious choice. Most dps classes in WoW have one or two defensive abilities. I actually think WoW has gone a little far with its ability pruning, but this game is a long way from WoW in that regard. I’m not suggesting we remove all cooldowns or even go as far as WoW has. I’m simply questioning the wisdom of the current bloated design.
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This thread in a nutshell:
Me: Why do we need 5 abilities that essentially do the same thing, but in slightly different ways?
Response: Cause they aren’t identical and are slightly different.
Me: Right, I get that they are all slightly different, but they all effectively reduce incoming damage, which is the same basic purpose. You could have just a few more globally useful abilities and you wouldn’t have to fill up your bar with so many similar but slightly different abilities.
Response: No, they are all slightly different and here are all the slight differences.
Me: Yes, I get that they are slightly different and understand those differences. That’s beside my point.
Response: But they are all slightly different you see. Let me explain their slight differences.
Me: *dies a little inside*
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If somebody is throwing rocks at you do you hide behind glass or wood...
If somebody attacks you with an axe do you hide behind wood or rock...
If somebody throws an explosive to you still hide behind the rock? Why not the wood?
Because you know that wood will stop rocks but NOT an explosive.. You just instantaneously analyzed the attack and choose the correct defense. It's not that hard really.
You need to know what your foe is using against you in order to defend against it. That is simply common sence and having a good rotation will not help you if you choose the wrong defense. One defense does NOT cover all and should not cover all situations.
If you ever played EvE Online then you would learn this little fact.
That failure to know your enemy, is to die by your enemy. No amount of firepower or rotation skill will save you.
I would rather they not DUMB the game down any more that they already have....
Except many of the cooldowns in this game reduce all types of damage, so your point is kind of moot. Beyond that, if I have an energy shield at my disposal why should I give a flying crap whether someone is throwing rocks at me or shooting lasers?
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Fair enough. He thought you don't care about DCDs, but what you ask is a simpler set of DCDs. Just the two, with lower cooldowns to compensate. One size-fits-all DCDs.
We don't. We like them to be situational. It's part of what makes this game great. Complexity.
What is the advantage of complexity in this particular facet of the game? I still have not seen an answer to that question. It’s complexity for the sake of complexity only. That’s poor design. You should have enough variety in your rotation and in the fights themselves that you don’t have to manufacture complexity by taking up half of a quickbar with different defensive cooldowns.
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I'm going to differ with you there.
Knowing what your enemy is doing to you and knowing how to counter it is a necessary part of any game that requires you to do more than, HACK and SLASH. If forces you to use the 3 lbs. of grey matter in your skull for more than something to hold your ears apart. It requires you to use your intelligence, to analyze your situation and then come up with a viable combat strategy to defeat your foe, and not to simply bash it with your light stick till it dies....
Your rotation and the fight mechanics should be adequately challenging that they fully engage your brain without requiring you to parse in a split second whether the bad you couldn’t get away from is causing physical or some other type of damage.
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DCDs are very useful in raids and FPs. They can help ease your healer(s) burden a bit, thus increasing your chance in completing those Ops and Fps. You may not see their usefulness in solo, but when you start doing FPs and Ops... you'll see it. Just ignore em when soloing, I put em in the quickbar but I usually don't use it but it doesnt hurt me putting em in the sidebar.
Please read threads before commenting. You aren’t addressing what this thread is about.
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A lot of it is required to survive end-game PVE bosses. And more-so after they nerfed all the DPS and the healers.
Yes, and my point is that this is bad design. If you require your pure DPS classes to juggle 5 different defensive cooldowns, you haven’t balanced those encounters properly. If encounters are designed well, these should be emergency buttons to deal with specific mechanics or cover up an occasional mistake. You shouldn’t need half a dozen of those.
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Right now you're just a noob mara though. No offense!
The moment you enter max level pvp you'll be eaten alive. Then wish you understood what each DCD does, lol.
First of all, this Marauder is not my first character. I played this game from pre-launch.
Secondly, it isn’t that I don’t understand what each ability does. It’s that I don’t see a need for 5 slightly different variations of “reduces damage taken by X%.” It’s bloated design, plain and simple.
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You say those that want to deal with cool downs, etc they would roll a tank but what if they want to play a certain class that does not have tanks. Agents and Smugglers has no tree that gives you a choice to be a tank. It is either pure DPS (snipers or gunslingers) or a choice of DPS or healers (operatives or scoundrels). Those that roll those classes do not have a choice to roll a tank .
My point is that people who want to juggle a bunch of abilities to mitigate their incoming damage are likely to roll a tank from the get go.
= so I got it first.
So many defensive cooldowns
in General Discussion
Posted
You either lack a basic understanding of how balance works or else you are being deliberately obtuse. If they ever decided to address this issue and trim down the number of different DCDs, they would balance the remaining abilities (both DCDs and stuns/mezzes/controlling effects) to allow PVP to remain competitive.
This is an across-the-board issue. So far as I can tell, every single class could stand some ability pruning. It isn't merely about one or two specific abilities that Maras have. I used the Mara as an example merely because I was leveling one at that moment and it effectively illustrated the issue. This is about class design that was bloated from the start and has never been effectively addressed.