resistive hilts and armourings, mods with power in them.

dude, I see your point. THAT WASN'T YOUR QUESTION. But,Your ripping a guy who is trying to tell you WHY you are dying. Its not your gear. It's your lack of knowledge. Unlike other MMO's where tanking is all blocking and taunting with a few mechanics, tanking in swtor is very active. Its not hard to loose agro or die from a pooly understood mechanic in this game. He was trying to help you avoid the embaresment of being kicked from group because they dubbed you a bad tank. With bolters in his game stats mean jack. When you get to HM/Vet/NIM ( if ever.....) stats are more important, just remember those raid groups expect you to have the fight mechanics mastered before you join them. just a thought I leave you to think about. cheers A veteran shadowtank

GENERAL THOUGHTS; I like keyboardninjas logic. The olders sets were better. I also liked how each tank class had different properties to the set bounus per class. I enjoyed the tank pvp gear had a different set of values and set bounus than the pve gear. My point is as keybord ninja is right, using the same thing for all three tank classes but rewording it different is blah. The three tank classes aren't equal. There are many metric differences per the three, making the gear the same is a frustration. I get it, the devs only tank on jugs and only use sorcs as healers. That generalized statement is kinda true when you read how the patch notes get written when they update class roles. Since launch sin tanks have been doctored the most, I kinda miss our old self healing. Jugg can heal itself, PT can heal itself why cant we? dunno I never thought overcharge was that OP. They must think the aoe taunt heal is amazing....... vs shielding the party or casting reflect on the party. I digress, do some thinking and re-tailor the set bounuses for the classes. make them unique, but most important make them usefull. I got to give them some props for starting this thread, cept it should have been done with shadow of revan.... cheers a old shadowtank

SHORT answer: buy the survivor gear and with the bastion implants and earpiece. use relic of fortunate readout and reactive warding. Put all your augments in absorb. Its not perfect and as you gain experience and learn the fights you can tweek it. LONG answer: Tankasins have a lot going for them BUT its a very loaded question. a lot of people have multiple sets. IE A HIGH sheilding set for some fights and a HIGH absorb set for some fights. I also have a endurance set for a few fights I believe the extra endurance helps out. I have been a tankasin since 1.2 and the many changes make it very complicated. Unlike the heavy armour tank classes it a whole different relm of tanking due to the shadows cooldowns. Because you will have certain fights where with the right cooldown and adrenal you will be temporarily invincible. Other fights you will nearly be oneshotted, its a balance thing. communication with healers is needed so they don't continuously over heal you during a boss fight. If your looking as numbers guy read what keyboard ninja has done for number crunching. Its hard to get the perfect optimal stat since the devs have changed what defensive stats are in enhancements. The new augments have also given stat changes. My point is the class is harder to master than the other two tanking classes. As a jug tank there are many fights you can just take it in the shorts and survive. Sin is different, there is a learning curve you have to go through to become a good sin tank. PT tanking is almost idiot proof, Jug tanking is easy, sin tanking takes skill. GOOD LUCK a veteran shadowtank

Please, I think you missed my meaning. AS a tank I should be a damage sponge, but my sole option is to dps. Because my pvp tank gear is useless as a damage sponge. I agree with we trade killing power for survival, but with the popular hybridized you do. I can kill some one its not instant , i might have the survival to do so. But since beta shielding/ absorb has been a waste in wz. All that matters is how much health ya got. It would be ironic if dps had to trade hp pool for survival or killing power. but thats tanking

Well, maybee in that time something will happen. To the OP since beta tanks have been between worthless and undesirable in pvp. I have sin tanked since beta, and up till 3.0 built mitigation tank gear. And guess what I came to realize the guys who hybridized the tank/dps gear had the upper hand. And OP, I will also make the statement since beta tanks have run around in dps gear and dps( PT,VANGUARD) run around in dps spec in tank stance, for better killing power and more survival. YOU are ************ of having a advantage. go figure. It is pvp, where people with creativity in gearing and have skill at there class is refferd to by the rest as exploiting the game. The truth is its hard to balance, if the do something to sheild/absorb in pvp then likely it will screw up pve. Same if they mess with a tanks use of power or damage they do probly will cause havoc in pve. Some of it like certain tree passives be linked to stances or certain skills require certain weapon type was a move in the right direction. Its a work in progress. by one of the people who posted in this tread that as a tank i should be bootstomped by a marauder. I raise the ******** flag. I got no issue being killed by superior tactics or skill. BUT 50% of all marauders should never que and reroll- i am supposed to loose to that bad because he/s a dps class and i am not?

Ok man, lets start with the obvious. You listed your gear stats, are you using the full set bounus? Wich is essential for survival: +2 DR for 3sec with each cast of wither/slow time, extra points of kinetic ward, are you keeping harnessed shadows up constantly? I mean are ya just standing there taking it in the shorts like a guardian tank does? Guardians are designed to do that - we are shadows and can't do that. What I am getting at is post a parse of the fight, tell us what your doing in the moment- just don't post your stats and say am i doing this right. I think your light on absorb and could use a touch more shield. About cooldown use- i follow the pro-active thought of cooldwon managment. If i can make the healers job easier i will, I just don't use them as a oh **** moment save me now please item. Shadow cooldown make us temporarily invulnerable- learn there proper use. HM zorn and toph is hard on a shadow- so is HM sparky. Certain fights i feel way more tankier in than others- In HM sv for several bosses i feel like i am hard to kill. It depends on the boss, as a whole HM trash hits worse than most of the bosses. Good luck

Well i do have one. Send a ingame mail to Tulak and i'll send ya the both i have. Found out a fellow sith named arcana on server also has the recipe. Good luck in your battles.

I can craft....but sadly I did jump server. Silly part was when I was on server no one ever bought them. I'll log onto jung ma and see if I left one on the toon i left there. If I did, its yours- I will in game mail it to ya.

Now for the most part guardian tanks have a lower HP pool than the other tank classes. Its not a s bad as it used to be- the newer tank gear is more equal overall in endurance rating with all three tank classes. You have just hit on the second oldest subject on tanking after who to guard. Endurance. All the pvp tanks swear by using nothing but fortitude augments and all the pve tanks swear by mitigation augments. Well the answer isn't staight forward at all. All tanking augments have power, most tanking relics have power. You will end up with a fair amount of power (<400 points) either way. Power is a tanks best friend because it helps balance your anemic main stat pool and enhances your threat gen. But ya shouldn't stack power over mitigation such as defense. Ironic that the defense augment has power in its secondary stat. Your thread would have a totally different arguement if tanking augments had endurance over power - but maybee that's a idea for the dev's to change.

And why not? by your logic this thread that you made shoudn't have been posted at all. Oh wait ya want to whine about the server and get your desires met by the server merge and let the rest of anyone elses desires go unfullfilled. Hell even a guy in from POT5 din't speak highly of his own server. Just go and follow the first point ya oulined and said not to restate an be happy

OK lets try to help the guy more than correct him - gents. First things first- certain elites on the 2 man heroic are easier to do than others as asasisn tank. All the ones with a gun are harder to do- just because they all have alot of knock backs and what they use for attacks. Also the one with a double bladed lightsaber is the easiest one to kill with your pet out- because shes a assasin has your same weakneses. So ya followed dulfys guide - great and sad at the same time. I personally disagree with a few of the statements there. Out of stealth spike should be taken- has way too many uses in dailies and ops. So if ya didn't spend a point in it ya have one less stun to stop something with. Ya got so many stuns/ knock backs to use on the elites to interupt there attacks. Ya should be able to interupt all cast abilities they use. Ya should know that comparing the heavy armour tank class to the light armour tank is bad- they aren't even cloase to the same. Juggy tanks in alot of fights got no other option but to take it in the shorts the pit fall of heavy armour, and how there cooldowns are designed. A bad sin tank will just stand there and take damage. The heavy armoured tanks are all married to a healing pet- as a sin tank I can solo most heroics with Ashara and a solid use of the correct coolsdown. Sin cooldowns are damage specific. And in the right applications you are temporarily invulnerable. Sins need to know the fight mechanics of there oponets so the can properly defend against there attacks.Keep tanking ya will get it figured out man.

There are certain fights in OPS where phase walk has great utility. Just cause the reg shadow dps community doesnt use it is sad. Phase walk can be planted after the first phase of adds after the said player has been thrown up top in thrasher boss fight in HM sv- while properly used you will always replant it after each set of ads and be able to reach the adds quickly. spreading out and moving quickly durring tentacle phases and tantrum in HM tfb. Mind you these thoughts arn't game breaking and there are several other applictions where phase walk can be planted and the player can avoid enviormental damage as bosses are move if a bit of prior thought is used. Sure phase walk is great in pvp and as a tank but the lack of thought on how to use it effectively in pve I think is more a player problem versus an ability design problem.

1.)Hey KBN what if our pvp set bounus are more in line with our pve set bounus? Cause Ill admit for my gaurdian tank I use two dps armourings on my pvp gear. The bounus is intercede/guardian leap heals for x%- way more usefull as a tank in pvp. So the thought is have our pvp set bounus make us tankier. 2.) Something to mention is in world pvp we are signifactly tankier in def gear- I personally think that is " working as designed" when some one attempts to jump us durrng dailes. They find out how tough we are to kill. 3.) What if the the devs re-adjust the shaky bolster system- i am no numbers guru like you and dipstic so this is my idea. Remember expertise is supposed to have a damage debuff versus other players - well in wz's make that damage debuff only apply to the tanks durring wz's. Those are my thoughts

I am in penumbral with Lord Sran- yes the population of the guild is accurate. And I don't count my self as a pvp'er- there I said it. I pvp alot I am in a pvp guild to raid with them. They ( the guild ) are nice people, they have a strong community and actually care. They actually try to get the community active for various events. And they ALWAYS have groups queing and RPing. So I don't know where the OP got his information, but its clearly inacurtate. Crinn is a legend on pug side- hes been around for ages so don't take his thoughts as a noob . I am a refugee from ajunta pall. Crinn is right all my friends got sent to Jung Ma and quit. Here there is a second voice to what a merge would do. Jung Ma has a good community- and if they ever close this server I won't go to a pvp sever. Ill pay to have all 16 of my toons transfered to harbringer. Do as crinn suggested post this thread on the Jung Ma sever forums and expect the wrath that will follow. Oh does any one remember when server transfers were available a bit a go? Half of the so called "dedicated " pvp guilds such as immortal. credit shot, spectere and so on left Jung Ma for more pvp on POT5. I laughed my a@@ off when they transfered back because they didn't like the new competition. The grass is always greener on the other side? So OP stop being a cheap @#$#@ and pay the 20 buck and go there and get farmed for coms. Ty.

Hey, lets band together and whine about Shoots First damage. Since scoundrals whined about our knock down why not lets be fair and they can have Shoots First hit for about 1k. Alls fair in love and war. Problem solved both ability would be in "balance " as things go around in here..........

Sadly they won't because Spinning Kick- Spikes' mirror class ability uses that animation. Just a thought, since opratives whined about our knock down why don't we whine and get Shoots First damage reduced? Alls fair in love and war. See how they would like a ability that does less that 1k damage.

I'll go scya:D Toon: Haladex Role: DPS ranged Guild: Fellowship of Ancients

Ok scya i'll go toon: Mackkan role: tank guild: penumbral

I am not as well versed on metrics or models as KBN but here are my thoughts. My overall reaction is enraged. Not be completely because of the removal of the self healing mechanic but because I feel we as (shadows ) are getting the short end of the stick again. So they remove our self healing: Well our whole tanking metric was based on it. What now? Because our cooldowns offered us either temporary invulnerabilty or increased healing. Will battle readiness not give us a a instant heal anymore? Will they be fair and remove the self healing abilities from from vanguard and guardian? So that there is no self healing with any tank class? Many new questions arise from this reply from the Devs. The thing is what made us unique is now going to be taken completely from us. I admit I can't see why any one will play a shadow tank anymore after these changes. There will be no reason, we don't have heavy armor and with no self heals the increased temporary DR will be minimal in our survivability . Unless they expect us to stealth out to avoid from dying. I should have seen this coming , we know the shadow has had more reworks than several other classes. It should have been seen as obvious. 2.0 came out and our new ability was not as cool as everyone else. Or how at 1.3 with the nerfing of armor rating and self heals several shadows quit being tanks. Now when 2.0 came out we got some of our self healing back, but lost a additional 20% in armor rating. And to see we loose all self healing is a big blow too me. Ironic that they put a self healing perk for shoulder rocket in the vanguard tree. Balance: love it or hate it , it was our best tree for the longest time. Due to some of the changes in perks at 2.0 I think all DPS shadows went to infiltration. There is no excitement in balance but it was nice having few ranged attacks as a melee class. And the usefulness in raiding was so superior to sage in balance tree. I agree with the thoughts that it needs a bit of a buff to make it a better burst spec. Infiltration: was truly given more thought than balance at its inception but still has less burst. It isn't sustained burst due to force requirements. Not to mention the old fact we were married to wa tching for skills to proc. I still think making spinning strike spammable due to a proc like dispatch is a better idea. Or have given infiltration not tanking the frontal backstab perk. A Shadow is my prefferd toon. I really enjoyed being a tank and now with these current proposed changes to my favorite class. I personally think I am out. I can't see my self continuing to resub. I have played a shadow since beta and think that because of this recent idea I will leave SWTOR too. Good luck to all who stay. A fellow Shadowtank

I know shadow tank spikiness is a old subject. But when most people are calling for a 2-3% more DR, i would like to suggest a simple fix. Make the four piece PVE set bonus 4-5% instead of 2 % . Would that be a fix?

Hi, who is filling your head with all this bull? They guys who dislike shadow tanks obviously never had a good one. The best tanks in this game are shadows but also the worst tanks in this game are shadows. Unlike some other tanking classes in this game shadow isn't idiot proof. The three tanking classes are different- they all have strengths and weaknesses. And yes shadows can tank HM and NIM ops. I happen to prefer my shadow to all my other tanks, when my guild does progression I tank on a shadow. We clear content and I am the main tank on my shadow. Tanking on a shadow is active and different because of how we tank. You should stack significant amounts of mitigation and be properly spec'd in the KC tree. A big part of our survival is our self healing mechanic. Healers dislike us because our health bar jumps around more than other tanks, even though we require less overall healing than the other tank classes. Our defensive cooldowns grant us nigh invincible for a few precious seconds. Our cooldowns are damage specific, so we need to know exactly what kind of damage we are about to receive to defend against it. Just as a side point shadows have the best threat gen of all tanking classes. We also have better numbers in mitigation, guardians and vaguards cannot aspire to what we as shadows can mitigate. Sure the light armour blows and sure the devs keep tweaking our armour rating- but I take it as a challenge. None of the other tanking classes get the vast array of tools we get to grant us great utility. There are many threads complaining how in pvp we are OP. Read some of 'em, they are good for a laugh. The plaintiff was given the a shot to fight a shadow who was good at there class. In pve a good shadow tank survives where the other tank dies. Hope this gives you some insight. - A fellow shadow tank

This is a gray area, meaning show some theorycrafting.. I will argue that a Elite War Hero equiped tank is easier to say nay to than a Elite War Hero DPS/Healer. The people who say they are being carried by the group- I beg to differ. Most tanks /DPS use some pvp gear in pve. As awesome as the Dread Guard Relics are I still use a Elite War Hero Relic and the Elite War Hero MH. Now I know that this thread wasn't about using PVP relics, but with out the OP linking their gear in a reply we don't know for certain their standing. I would have to see comparison parser numbers to reserve judgement. It is really easy to say nay with out looking at the numbers.

Maybee this helps, Nights Raidiance is a elite raiding guild with almost full membership active raiding attendence.. As impressive as that sounds they don't have more than 20 people in the guild, but several of the members have 8 geared lvl50's. They are really active, they have raided not just with their main but several alts through HM TFB and NM Denova. I don't think they are actively recruiting. I know they beat the Jen'jedaii for the server first on NM Denova Their pvp prowess is also well known. My insight was from once being a memeber, but I left because I wanted to be in a more casual guild. They are some of the best players this game has.