Mercenary seems to be lacking compared to other classes?

[AndrosX]

Getting full champion gear doesnt prove anything. At all. You could still be terrible in pvp.

 

Yeah but you see, we're not going anywhere like this:

 

"you aren't lvl50, ****"

"but I am lvl50!"

"ah, you need PvP gear noob"

"I own full set"

"You could still be terrible in PvP"

 

Lvl50 and PvP gear surely matter, skills matter even more, but we still don't have enough CC options or an escape and if that was intended, then our damage is not enough to justify that.

Like another poster said, it's pretty easy to check the talent tree and realize that 1)we don't have any CC/escape etc hidden at lvl50 2)we don't get any uber oneshot abilty or anything of the sort, I mean, something that would suddenly turn Mercenary into a powerhouse that would somehow justify the lack of utilities.

[EStarfall]

Let me sum this thread up.

 

Merc sucks

No it doesn't

 

My epeen is huge, my arena rating on a completely different game that has nothing to do with this game or its pvp environment is OVER 9000!!?!?!

 

Powertech is better than Merc

No it isn't

 

The spec that I chose is superior to yours because I like it better and offer anecdotal evidence to validate my choice. The forum's approval will make me feel better about myself and my choice. It also makes me feel good to act like a big shot when I talk about your inferior spec.

 

/thread.

[Diablopepe]

I am a 59 merc BH. There is nothing wrong w/ merc dps, but I can agree that BHs could use another interrupt.

[THECLONED]

Standing still for pvp even a kid will tell you that is not good . i am levelling a Merc but i consider another class for pvp .

[Ciry]

Let me sum this thread up.

 

Merc sucks

No it doesn't

 

My epeen is huge, my arena rating on a completely different game that has nothing to do with this game or its pvp environment is OVER 9000!!?!?!

 

Powertech is better than Merc

No it isn't

 

The spec that I chose is superior to yours because I like it better and offer anecdotal evidence to validate my choice. The forum's approval will make me feel better about myself and my choice. It also makes me feel good to act like a big shot when I talk about your inferior spec.

 

/thread.

 

This was most helpful, thank you.

 

Someone earlier stated as a PT they'd kill any Merc one on one. There is a good chance that may be true, especially if the Merc is Arsenal spec which is not designed to go one on one.

 

Merc is not op, it is not up, it is just right if played just right. Don't go running into the middle of 50 people, you will die. Stand back as far as possible and open up with your AoE's.

 

The only problem is people not understanding what their class is meant to do and other people wanting their class to be what it is plus what another class is.

[goodone]

So quick question,

 

coming into this forum I figured I would find a bunch of whining and you guys didnt let me down at all. for competent people who arent crying for preemptive buffs-

 

I played a hunter to glad and a mage to 2500 in wow, so I feel ive got a solid grasp on mmo pvp and what not and honestly I dont feel that mercs seem that bad.

 

Sure, you have to work for opportunities for damage but who doesnt? I think everyone might be thinking that the grass is greener but really i dont see that many differences between the sorceror and merc.

 

So for you guys that have decent experience in other mmos or competitive games and also level 50 exp- how do you think the merc is going to work out? Is it going to be capable with a high skilled player?

 

the only thing i think is really missing is a reliable interrupt, it doesnt make sense that about every other class has one and we dont. A blink/disengage with the jetpack could also make the class feel more complete, I mean c'mon its a bounty hunter.

 

Hopefully as the metagame develops we see mercs pick up a high skill cap niche role that relies on smart positioning and taking advantage of casting opportunities.

[Hilnarox]

So quick question,

 

coming into this forum I figured I would find a bunch of whining and you guys didnt let me down at all. for competent people who arent crying for preemptive buffs-

 

I played a hunter to glad and a mage to 2500 in wow, so I feel ive got a solid grasp on mmo pvp and what not and honestly I dont feel that mercs seem that bad.

 

Sure, you have to work for opportunities for damage but who doesnt? I think everyone might be thinking that the grass is greener but really i dont see that many differences between the sorceror and merc.

 

So for you guys that have decent experience in other mmos or competitive games and also level 50 exp- how do you think the merc is going to work out? Is it going to be capable with a high skilled player?

 

the only thing i think is really missing is a reliable interrupt, it doesnt make sense that about every other class has one and we dont. A blink/disengage with the jetpack could also make the class feel more complete, I mean c'mon its a bounty hunter.

 

Hopefully as the metagame develops we see mercs pick up a high skill cap niche role that relies on smart positioning and taking advantage of casting opportunities.

 

 

2.3 On my Rogue and 2.6 in Rbgs

 

I don't think they will be viable to a certain extent, but then again there aoe damage is the best in the game and they have good sustained damage, but at a higher level people will no who too target, like sorcerer, sniper, mercenary arsenal, Because they are more stationary, sniper and sorcerer are better set out for 1v1's then merc... they also do everything better except aoe, that's why i think merc wont be viable because classes can do what they can do and better

[Raideen]

2.3 On my Rogue and 2.6 in Rbgs

 

I don't think they will be viable to a certain extent, but then again there aoe damage is the best in the game and they have good sustained damage, but at a higher level people will no who too target, like sorcerer, sniper, mercenary arsenal, Because they are more stationary, sniper and sorcerer are better set out for 1v1's then merc... they also do everything better except aoe, that's why i think merc wont be viable because classes can do what they can do and better

 

 

But what you say completely evades people. I swear some people on these forums just dont think.

 

I rolled a sorc today. So similar to the merc BH in its playstyle you could almost switch skins and it would feel just like a BH...EXCEPT

 

shields that absorb a ton of damage, on a low CD

 

slows built into hard hitting attack on a CD half as long as merc

 

resource system that feels infinite in comparison to heat

 

Sprint on a 30 sec CD

 

and the list goes on and on

 

Everything an arsenal merc has, a sorc has and more.

[archfiend]

I might add a Pyrotech specific problem:

 

The main mechanics regarding railshot reset:

 

the Merc has 30% chance on power shot, the PT 30% on flame burst.

 

Power Shot:

- 1,5sec cast time

- 25 heat

- easy to push back

 

 

Flame Burst:

- instant cast

- 16 heat

 

 

Why do I not want to use Power Shot in PvP?

 

1. I have to stand still

2. It can be pushed back a lot

3. It has very high heat costs compared to only 30% reset chance

 

this is the worst thing for pyro mercs. in beta rail shot could proc off of incendiary missile dot crits. this allowed the pyro merc to stay on the move. you ran around overheating all the time from launching missiles at everyone but when you got several crits in a row and were able to railshot the **** outa someone life was good, on the other hand some times you didnt get crits, and so you died horribly.

 

now you must stand around and cast abilities to get the effect, not only that but all the goodies for the abilities you need to use to get freebie railshots are in the arsenal tree. /boggle...

Edited January 3, 2012 by archfiend

[TheJollyRogers]

Absolute crybaby whining is all I see on this bloody forum. It feels like Werden (the writer of "Ask a Mercenary" at the top of our forum) and I are the only ones finding success with this class.

 

I am sitting at 54 Valor rating - I PvP exclusively with a competitive guild. I am posting the shots for my last THREE games tonight as we vs'd another competitive Republic guild and a game where most of their team was 50s.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/screenshot2012010303013.jpg/

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/screenshot2012010303484.jpg/

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/screenshot2012010302452.jpg/

 

I don't spam DfA or Fusion Missile - these teams are not stupid enough to stand in it. I manage CCs on their healers while we focus down targets and we do excellently like this. I bring a great deal to the table as an Arsenal BH. We aren't a 1v1 class - we shine where this game was balanced around: group PvP.

 

I could upload my entire folder of screenshots as I take one of every game I do (wins and losses). I use them to understand when I lose if there was an area I was lacking (healing/objectives).

 

I'm tired of all this crying. I've yet to see another 50 bounty hunter with near the valor rank come in and legitimately claim that we are useless. I played a Merc in beta. I am playing one in release. I am having an absolute blast.

 

My guildy is starting to record our games so hopefully I'll try to get a few up sometime this week.

[AndrosX]

Also, in other games some classes have big pros and big cons.

For example, in some games a rogue does tons of damage, but he has to be within a few mt, he won't scratch plate users etc.

In this game a "rogue" (operative, assassin etc) has some medium or even long range attacks, CC, passive or active speed bonuses and might even have a pull attack.

 

Tanks (like powertech) in other games deal low damage and are forced to stay close to you, here they can deal respectable damage while keeping respectabe defense (not full tank template), but they can also CC and of top of it they can pretty much be in close range the whole time thanks to grapple and jet charge or w/e it's called.

Thanks to the medium/long range attacks they have and many insta abilities, it's quite impossibe to keep them away from us, unless we're standing on a ledge in huttball - and that's a fact, they have a 10m range on some of their main attacks (such as flame burst) and like I said before, they have abilities to get even closer instantly (without heat cost if I'm not much mistaken), or the speed bonuses.

 

Here we don't have well defined archetypes, which is fine by me (new game, new rules) and even suits me alright because it makes it possible to customize and change your template and, to a certain extent, your role from time to time.

But then if there has to be flexibility, all the advanced professions should have flexibility.

Not x out of 8 but 8 out of 8.

If a class is not supposed to have flexibility, then that class needs something else to make up for it.

 

For example, if they would say Sniper is not supposed to move or CC at all, but while in cover they deal 3 times the amount the second best DPS class can do, or they have 60m range, it might not work (could be overpowered, downright boring, etc) but it would make sense.

I took Sniper as an example because it's easier to imagine a well defined role for a class that runs around without uber armor, carrying a long range high powered sniper rifle but I guess you get the picture.

 

PvP is about all arenas and even open world PvP/duels.

So the fact that in Huttball and Huttball alone we might have a good life, standing on ledges and shooting people down because they're too busy to spot us, relying on jet boost or rocket punch to knock leapers off the ledge, doesn't mean that Mercenary is alright as it is, or uber.

On top of that, any premade group or PvPers who work together can immediately end your advantage and when you find smart opponents, they always make sure to keep an eye out for you and get you off that ledge as soon as you come back.

Not to mention that to be useful to the team in Huttball, you have to follow the game and be where the action is (though at safe range and if possible on a ledge), which means you rarely have the chance to stay on top of your ledge and nuke the hell out of enemies for a long time.

[Hilnarox]

Absolute crybaby whining is all I see on this bloody forum. It feels like Werden (the writer of "Ask a Mercenary" at the top of our forum) and I are the only ones finding success with this class.

 

I am sitting at 54 Valor rating - I PvP exclusively with a competitive guild. I am posting the shots for my last THREE games tonight as we vs'd another competitive Republic guild and a game where most of their team was 50s.

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/830/screenshot2012010303013.jpg/

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/screenshot2012010303484.jpg/

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/818/screenshot2012010302452.jpg/

 

I don't spam DfA or Fusion Missile - these teams are not stupid enough to stand in it. I manage CCs on their healers while we focus down targets and we do excellently like this. I bring a great deal to the table as an Arsenal BH. We aren't a 1v1 class - we shine where this game was balanced around: group PvP.

 

I could upload my entire folder of screenshots as I take one of every game I do (wins and losses). I use them to understand when I lose if there was an area I was lacking (healing/objectives).

 

I'm tired of all this crying. I've yet to see another 50 bounty hunter with near the valor rank come in and legitimately claim that we are useless. I played a Merc in beta. I am playing one in release. I am having an absolute blast.

 

My guildy is starting to record our games so hopefully I'll try to get a few up sometime this week.

 

Them screenshots, Nothing new or special even on bit.

 

But since you sitting on 54 Valor and say ur in a competitive guild, Fair enough.

But..... My point is, what does arsenal bring to the table That Sorc/Snipers dont? eccept aoe, they do everything better.

[Rimbaldo]

We really need a ranged interrupt and our snare needs to be removed from Full Auto and added to one of our instants like Rail Shot or Heatseeker Missiles. Those two changes alone would go leagues toward improving our PvP game, in my opinion.

[PhiberOptic]

I've played an Arsenal AC Merc in beta and went that route up until a few days ago. In PvE, we do exceptional DPS, even more so with our AOE abilities.

 

The most complaints we'll see are from the PvP side of things due to how Arsenal plays. Not only does it take time to build up our damage, but we're standing still doing so. Tracer Missile x3 to get a 5 stack debuff for Heatseeker is 3 seconds of standing still using TSO, without it, 4.5. That's a pretty long time to be standing still casting without being interrupted. When we're not being focused fire, we do a lot of damage to build up HS and RS.

 

This game is dominated by CC's (slows, pulls, stuns, interrupts) but we don't have much to counter those. Jet Boost is a nice ability followed by Unload to keep the opponent slowed, then ED to get more distance, but the relative long cooldown on those doesn't offer much in reusability in the quick action of PvP. I feel as if Energy Shield should offer more in the Arsenal tree like it does for Bodyguard. Make us immune to movement impairing effects - something that could let us keep distance.

 

I recently switched to Bodyguard as I wasn't liking how Arsenal had to be played in PvP. This tree is good for healing and has nice heals but compared to Sorcerer, it pales in comparison. Their cure also adds a healing mechanism, ours does not. They can add absorption shields on the fly, ours comes from shooting a missile to the ground in a small radius but it does add a healing bonus. They also get sprint, interrupts while we do not other than our ED ability.

 

In PvP I do quite well even when getting focused by multiple players but Bodyguard is no where near the potential of what other classes can get to.

 

Also, saying that you're doing well in PvP with a guild means absolutely nothing. Any class getting healed can do well in PvP when coordination is evident. Just compared to other classes in PvP, we're on the bottom of the totem pole.

[Galdareth]

Look people. The merc both has its ups and downs. Arsenal needs some work for pvp, simple as that. Having only A stun and A knockback (another minor knockback also if u spec into it), for a class that has to remain mostly still, is auto gimp. NOW, i top damage in 9 out 10 bgs, and some by a marginal amount.... I do this while solo queing, no spam healers no nothing. If you know how to play ur class, even a gimped class, u can pull numbers that don't seem possible. All you people crying how under powered mercs are, l2p... It's that simple. Learn how to position urself, save ur cds for optimal times. Arsenal mercs have some of the highest burst in the game. Ill be getting hit at around 70%, while some1 will just have started on me at 100%. Because of knowing when to do what, im able to kill people before they can even get me below 50% sometimes. TRUELY knowing you're classes mechanics changes the opertaion of that class entirely. It's all situational, but the fact of the matter remains that in this game, far more than other mmo's i believe, reflects your skill level of gameplay through your scores. Granted now if u have massive numbers because of getting spam healed thats a different story. But if you want a true test of your skill, que solo in a bg, and have at it. If your scores are lacking that much, dont hate the game, hate the player. Mercs need a bit of work to their survive-ability, but as to their damage and performance, if you think they are useless or even underpowered, u are ignorant. ALL THERE IS TO IT.

[Gadrak]

Look people. The merc both has its ups and downs. Arsenal needs some work for pvp, simple as that. Having only A stun and A knockback (another minor knockback also if u spec into it), for a class that has to remain mostly still, is auto gimp. NOW, i top damage in 9 out 10 bgs, and some by a marginal amount.... I do this while solo queing, no spam healers no nothing. If you know how to play ur class, even a gimped class, u can pull numbers that don't seem possible. All you people crying how under powered mercs are, l2p... It's that simple. Learn how to position urself, save ur cds for optimal times. Arsenal mercs have some of the highest burst in the game. Ill be getting hit at around 70%, while some1 will just have started on me at 100%. Because of knowing when to do what, im able to kill people before they can even get me below 50% sometimes. TRUELY knowing you're classes mechanics changes the opertaion of that class entirely. It's all situational, but the fact of the matter remains that in this game, far more than other mmo's i believe, reflects your skill level of gameplay through your scores. Granted now if u have massive numbers because of getting spam healed thats a different story. But if you want a true test of your skill, que solo in a bg, and have at it. If your scores are lacking that much, dont hate the game, hate the player. Mercs need a bit of work to their survive-ability, but as to their damage and performance, if you think they are useless or even underpowered, u are ignorant. ALL THERE IS TO IT.

 

read the post,we are not complaining about the damage,but about the survivability,

 

and even there the sorcerer does everything better than us,better heals,better survivability(due to the ridicolously OP shield that has only 30 sec CD),much more CC,and much more damage.

 

if you dont believe my try it by yourself

[Galdareth]

read the post,we are not complaining about the damage,but about the survivability,

 

and even there the sorcerer does everything better than us,better heals,better survivability(due to the ridicolously OP shield that has only 30 sec CD),much more CC,and much more damage.

 

if you dont believe my try it by yourself

 

Re-read my last 2 sentences.... I said there that they need improvement on their surive-ability. And pvping as my merc, sorcs are really the only class that gives me major issues cause of the amount of raw damage their gd shield absorbs. WE DO NEED MORE CC. Even an interupt would make a world of difference. But for all the people to go as far as saying the class is usless or even underpowered.. is just dumb. ****GIMPED**** is far different.

[Ketale]

Hello, I got a Valor rank 50 lvl50 Mercenary in full champion gear. I think our class is fine what comes to damage output in pvp, but I agree that it lacks utility especially outside Huttball. I haven't played a proper healing spec because most of the times I have at least one healer joining with me. So I can't really say how is the healing with a proper spec compared to the other healing classes. I usually get 75k healing medal in every game. I do some support healing especially in Huttball - if let's say the person carrying the ball is taking damage and there is no proper healer around. I try to clear the path on the opposing team side by knocking enemies off making some space for the ball carrier.

 

My powertech guildmate does pretty close the same damage as I do - while being tank specced and is able to do Guard on one allie. However he can solo multiple lvl50 enemies at the same time - I can only with some major luck/against bad geared or awful players.

 

Being interrupted by melee is very annoying because the lack of snares for kiting. Now we get to one of the major turnoffs of this game - at least for me. The warzone/ability/whateverlag you want to call it. People just do sometimes warp around or even disappear for couple seconds after you use your Jet Boost on them. When this happens you are unable to do any damaging move until the opponent reappears on your screen - usually elsewhere where you would think it would be. Getting some sort of fix for these issues would perhaps solve most complaints and should be done before doing any further balancing - excluding major class imbalances and mirror class imbalances obviously.

 

I am not an expert what comes to data transfer at all. And I don't know exactly how this works in SWTOR except it's client to server to client. So I'm just trying to pull something off what I think is causing these problems - Feel free to correct me.

 

I assume that clients do predict moves and don't completely rely on data coming from the server. If the client does a false prediction it may seem like lag to that user. What if the other client is having some technical/connection problems? Does the server still keep waiting for it or does it send you it's false prediction? Still it doesn't explain me how some players can dissappear for quite some time without even being a stealth class... At least first person shooters usually have pretty good net code and I can't see why wouldn't a MMO have it done properly?

 

To justify my theory about bad net code. For example on my Sith Juggernaut alt I can't Force Charge when being pushed by one of those ventilation things on Huttball central area. Sometimes you get your character stuck also by doing so. And this is only caused by interaction with my client and the server while the other players are present.

 

Anyways. When 1.1 hits, I guess things will balance out with the 50 only warzone bracket too.

[Irishbrewed]

Just a good rule of thumb, play what you enjoy. The onus is on Bioware to keep things balanced and tbh this is by far one of the most balanced games I've seen in the genre out the gate. Are their some issues with every class? Yeah maybe, but to be fair to the game all things are not equal most of the time in pvp, until all 50's are bracketed and in full pvp gear it's hard to say deffinately that there are any real balance issues with any one class.

 

Also keep in mind that each class has its own "role"/"play style" in the game. Just because some people are not happy with their chosen classes "role/play style" has nothing to do with balancing. Those are personal opinions and preferences. Also keep in mind that with time mmo's change class wise. The overall feel remains the same though. This is why, I say pick the class you overall enjoy. Do not base it on DMg or any other metric. Ask yourself the following:

 

1. is the classes mechanics Fun?

2. Do you enjoy the "feel" of the class

3. Does it match the playstyle of other classes you have enjoyed in other mmo's

 

If you say yes to these then stick with the class and just work on being the best you can with it. Don't get deterred based on others opinions. Form your very own. Most of all just have fun.

Edited January 13, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[shadowAI]

shelved my gunslinger and sniper for a commando. Gunslinger/snipers actually do less ranged damage after armor is involved and have all the gimmick mechanics of cover.

[Stigas]

If your sole purpose is to PvP and you have no desire to ever heal, then you should definitely consider Powertech. Having Guard/Taunt in PvP is absolutely gamebreaking. It makes you a true asset.

 

My only frustration with Mercenary is really the activation time, but if you're Merc PvP'ing you should probably be Pyrotech. Arsenal is great... unless the other team has a brain and then they're focusing you or LoS'ing every cast - shutting you down either way.

 

I'm wondering if a 28/13 or 24/17 Arsenal/Pyrotech Hybrid wouldn't be fun. Giving up HSM for stronger Rail Shot and the Combustible Gas slow... God I love that slow.

[Thargrim]

I actually realize now I would have been better off as a Merc than as a Powertech. Because I often find my self naturally standing still, at range, firing off attacks...which is apparently how I naturally play..but too late now that im a lvl 50 Powertech who cant respec adv class. Edited January 13, 2012 by Thargrim

[Mrs_Murder]

wrong, they dont do ridiculous OP damage...all of those big numbers you see in warfront are just because BH have lot of aoe.....so they hot lets say 2k crit but on 6 player..wich make lot of damage, but single target we are far from the ridiculous OP damage that ppl think:D

 

Wrong. A lot of aoe? We have one. Ok two, but the second one is useless. And I very rarely encounter situations where the opposing team is stupid enough to group up like that.

At 50 your rail shot and thermal detonator should crit for 3.5k, if not 4k. It's lol. The best part is that they're instant. We have incredible burst damage, amazing dots, the best aoe in my opinion, automatic slow effect + dot, and an instant+free heal.

The big numbers you see are from mercs melting faces 1 on 1 and against large groups with our dots and aoe. We're one of the few ranged classes, which gives us a huge advantage. Melee classes are no problem since we can kite them forever.

 

Stop spreading lies. Mercs are awesome. Yes, powertechs have more PVP utilities, but we melt faces. Not to mention a free and instant heal.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Mrs_Murder

[Mrs_Murder]

Them screenshots, Nothing new or special even on bit.

 

Lol, second that. Under 200k is a bad/short round. Over 320k is good though. Not exactly a good way to promote mercs. "Oh look, I do absolutely average damage!!"

That's a competitive pvp guild? Looks like a bunch of lowbies to me.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Mrs_Murder

[Gadrak]

Wrong. A lot of aoe? We have one. Ok two, but the second one is useless. And I very rarely encounter situations where the opposing team is stupid enough to group up like that.

At 50 your rail shot and thermal detonator should crit for 3.5k, if not 4k. It's lol. The best part is that they're instant. We have incredible burst damage, amazing dots, the best aoe in my opinion, automatic slow effect + dot, and an instant+free heal.

The big numbers you see are from mercs melting faces 1 on 1 and against large groups with our dots and aoe. We're one of the few ranged classes, which gives us a huge advantage. Melee classes are no problem since we can kite them forever.

 

Stop spreading lies. Mercs are awesome. Yes, powertechs have more PVP utilities, but we melt faces. Not to mention a free and instant heal.

 

PINK TYPING IS THE CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!

 

emh emh

 

pyro has a nice mobility,and a good damage,but makes impossible killing healers and assasins

 

healers because we dont have an interrupt and because they can dispell your fire effect and because they can heal themselves until you get overheated and start fighting back

 

assasins because with a 30 second CD on jetboost,you are going to have an hard time against them,sure it can procs and slow them down but they can use the sprit to break the snare,cloak of shadow(or whatever is called)to grant immunity to every attack,and you cant use concussion missile on them,because every single attack on your arsenal is a dot

 

people keep claiming that pyro is better for fighting assasins,it's a lie while formidable opponents arsenal is much better for dealing with them(when played smart)