LAZY players will destroy The Old Republic

[Quaade]

You can be friends with someone, without being on the same Raid Team as them

 

Yes, and then you also doesn't play with them, which is an important part of the social aspect of these things. Overcoming challenges with your friends is always more fun than with random people who want you for your spec.

[Raximillian]

I am so against dual spec myself, It just doesnt make any sense for me? If u look away from all the factors like i leveled a tank to lvl 50, why do i have to compete with random people (for groups) who have just dual specced to it when they hit level 50... Besides it kind of destroys the idea/need to make multiple toons, and with all the strong story BW have implemented for each class i doubt they want that to happen. Besides its not like if u spec tank/healer in this game, u are totaly gimped in the dps department, and neither does it take that long to level a toon to 50..

 

Regarding a LFG tool, as long as it isnt cross server shard i wouldnt be totaly against it(would prefer it didnt get in though) but i am kind of baffled what excactly people expect it to do? I mean sure u can que up for copple of flashpoints there is for each level, but do u really expect bioware to have one for every heroic instance out there? I mean the list would be so stupid long, not to mention the fact that quite a few of the heroic quests takes place in the normal area, aka it isnt instanced?? What excactly would a lfg tool do then?

 

I agree people have to "earn" the right to tank. However, that is not earned by simply leveling a guy to 50. Anyone can level a tank to 50, but not everyone can tank.

 

So I do not care if the guy leveled DPS to 50 and then respected tank. What I care is if he can tank, and keep aggro and stay out of the fire, turn the boss etc. THAT is what's important. Not how he chose to level. So we have to focus here. Leveling a tank class to 50 does not automatically make that player a good tank.

 

The looking for group is another issue, and one that has to be analyzed. So we can analyze it pretty quick. Current way to look for group is by spamming chat. So lets see:

 

Spamming chat:

 

pros:

-some social interaction (arguable, listener may not be interested).

-can be very fast if there are interested people listening, or may raise interest in some ("heck, why not, lets do it").

-hum... can't think of many more.

 

cons:

-does not work on a global scale, so have to stay in fleet or one location.

-can fill up the channel with spam for those not interested in the flashpoint.

-Can be futile if there is no one interested in your invitation.

-There is no way to know if there are other people interested in your flashpoint or not.

 

Ok, if you have others, let me know. So we have some pretty bad ones there. I'm concerned about the global ability, and the fact that there is no way to know if others are interested.

 

So we need a tool that fixes those, but does not add new ones. So a LFG tool that works globally, and hows you who is interested in the instance would be beneficial. There is no cross-server, or autoports listed there, because I do not believe they are too beneficial.

 

So as long as BW does a proper analysis, and implements the RIGHT tool for the right issue, I would have no problem.

[IheartGreenGirls]

Queueing for Entry Level content doesn't really effect the game on a competitive level, sorry

 

It isn't about competition. It's about the fun of the game. LFD killed the social aspect of WoW. It will do the same to TOR. Having to decide between specs added meaningful challenge. Being able to be either a healer or tank on a whim is ridiculous.

[Ethern]

The ever present condescension of someone trying to convince themselves more than their audience.

 

Seems more like "hard core" avid players want to be able to control the community. They hate that casuals dare even come into their self proclaimed sphere of influence, i.e. the life they lead vicariously through a video game avatar. Companies should make multi-million dollar games that cater to their specific outlook, and of course, EVERY game should do it. Failure for a game not to follow their rules is automatically doomed to failure by these players.

 

Those tools kept me playing a game long after I would have quit from spending most of my play time spamming for a group. Sorry, OP, the tiny majority can keep saying it, but it doesn't make it true.

This post is so beautiful I almost shed a tear in agreement.

[Rikalonius]

Agree 100%. I thoght it was just me, but the continuous whinning of so many people over slicing, dual spec, AC switching, etc... is exactly what you are pointing out, laziness. I for one hope that BW does not cave to the vocal masses and start carving up their game because it will absolutely kill the game.

 

The irony here is that you don't see how utterly contradictory your statement is. Let me break it down. You: I for one hope that BW does not cave to the vocal masses. In other words, you think BW should ignore the vast majority of the paying customers because they don't have the same outlook as you? You: It will absolutely kill the game. Yes, I've seen it a hundred times, serving the customer always leads to financial ruin.

[Crogga]

Looking for groups queue ruin MMO's, dual spec also hurts MMO's, switching your advanced class later on in your progression will also destroy this MMO. WoW turned everyone into city whores just queuing. Bioware should not accommodate these lazy players. It killed wow, tor is amazing how it is now and all these whiny cry babies need to go back to wow.

 

You guys know I'm right.

 

That's funny. Last time I checked wow had around 10 million players and was the most successful mmorpg ever. You fanbois need to suck it up and push to improve swtor instead of digging in your heals. You're it's own worst enemy.

[Wrevan]

That's funny. Last time I checked wow had around 10 million players and was the most successful mmorpg ever. You fanbois need to suck it up and push to improve swtor instead of digging in your heals. You're it's own worst enemy.

Tetris, Pacman, Mario have had more players than WoW will ever have, so every game should be like them right? pff

 

Most of the shortcuts you love so much in WoW are NOT its strengths, rather they're lazy fixes for its shortcomings, because the developers couldn't be bothered with long-term improvements and the players choked down everything they were tossed, simply because of the lack of any viable alternatives on the market.

 

Hell, EVEN current WoW players themselves constantly complain about how much better the game was in [insert favorite pre-Cataclysm era] before Activision dumbed it down

 

 

 

and the next time you check WoW you should do a breakdown of how many players there are in each region. You'll be surprised.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Wrevan

[Quaade]

Hell, EVEN current WoW players themselves constantly complain about how much better the game was in [insert favorite pre-Cataclysm era] before Activision dumbed it down

 

and the next time you check WoW you should do a breakdown of how many players there are in each region. You'll be surprised.

 

No I don't, I don't think WoW has ever been as enjoyable as it is now and I was there since 2004. What you call dumbed down, I call fascilitating gameplay. Dualspec gave more choices on how to play and when to play, LFD gave dps classes a chance to actually get something done -other- than sitting in a town and spamming the channels, namely do dungeons and do things in the open world.

 

Actually I don't know where the "sit in the main city and do nothing" comes from because I've never had as much competition on ressourcenodes since they added it. What I do see are people sitting in cities because they wait for the LFD and don't -want- to do something else. Not because they don't have to do anything else to get a dungeon.

 

Right now in TOR I have no choice on how to play my class, I've gone down a line and I'll have to stick with it untill the end, unless I want to blow an unreasonable amount of cred to spec back and forth.

As for instances, I'm lvl 39 and have been in 4 I think and only once each, because I don't have the option of an LFD, I'm questing, not sitting in Fleet and spamming or reading the chat, I'm out there exploring the galaxy, dead as it is.

 

And last time I was on Balmarris on my server, there was 27 people in the zone as the maximum and only 1 shard running. Pay attention to that this is while people are still levelling, how dead don't you think these zones will be because people will have to sit in fleet and spam the chat in order to get a group?

Edited December 31, 2011 by Quaade

[evildestroyer]

Looking for groups queue ruin MMO's, dual spec also hurts MMO's, switching your advanced class later on in your progression will also destroy this MMO. WoW turned everyone into city whores just queuing. Bioware should not accommodate these lazy players. It killed wow, tor is amazing how it is now and all these whiny cry babies need to go back to wow.

 

You guys know I'm right.

 

Again another person that likes to spend hours to look for a party. In a few months there will be less people leveling how the hell are they suppose to find parties then?

Spend 5 hours spamming chat?

 

Look at rifts LFD tool they did it perfectly. For the Dual Spec, they shouldnt change it and for switching advance class that shouldnt be changed. But they need a LFD tool eventually.

[Zanguar]

Looking for groups queue ruin MMO's, dual spec also hurts MMO's, switching your advanced class later on in your progression will also destroy this MMO. WoW turned everyone into city whores just queuing. Bioware should not accommodate these lazy players. It killed wow, tor is amazing how it is now and all these whiny cry babies need to go back to wow.

 

You guys know I'm right.

 

finally someone who thinks simmilar to me here

[drksidejunkie]

Sorry OP - your going no where this thread.

 

This game, with all the flashpoints, heroics, not to mention planet system ...

 

Really REALLY could benefit from sort of LFG tool.

 

So many people struggle to find groups for the various group content, but because everyone is scattered all over the universe on different planets, ships, space stations, etc .. it can be rather difficult at times to get a group going...

 

Sure people say get friends, have a guild, etc - sometimes those are just not viable options.

 

LFG tools are nothing to be scared of and anyone who thinks they are - has more important issues to be worried about than LFG tools.

 

 

Cheers.

[LeSamourai]

How is allowing people to switch AC's because they hate the one they are playing, going to effect the game? If anything, they will play MORE, not less.

[Raximillian]

Tetris, Pacman, Mario have had more players than WoW will ever have, so every game should be like them right? pff

 

Most of the shortcuts you love so much in WoW are NOT its strengths, rather they're lazy fixes for its shortcomings, because the developers couldn't be bothered with long-term improvements and the players choked down everything they were tossed, simply because of the lack of any viable alternatives on the market.

 

Hell, EVEN current WoW players themselves constantly complain about how much better the game was in [insert favorite pre-Cataclysm era] before Activision dumbed it down

 

 

 

and the next time you check WoW you should do a breakdown of how many players there are in each region. You'll be surprised.

 

I agree to some point. Blizzard implementation of the fixes were definitely not good. They went overboard with them and added too many features (cross server, autoport, etc). However, the tools themselves are not bad IF tuned properly. The game would benefit with some kind of tool to make grouping easier. It does not make the players lazy, it is a quality of life improvement. There is nothing good about spamming chat in the fleet withot even knowing if there is anyone interested out there.

 

Sure, if they go too far like in WoW, it could make some things worse. But if applied properly, it can help.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Raximillian

[Quaade]

How is allowing people to switch AC's because they hate the one they are playing, going to effect the game? If anything, they will play MORE, not less.

 

Switching advance classes would be a little over the top as you are told very clear when you choose that this AC can either tank or dps or heal or dps. That choice has a very big significance over gameplay, wether to then play as healer or dps has less and comes down to how you want to play it. As such that is okay to want to switch around once in while.

[Raximillian]

How is allowing people to switch AC's because they hate the one they are playing, going to effect the game? If anything, they will play MORE, not less.

 

I'm pro-dual spec, but only within AC. Changing ACs would be a bit too much. They are completely different classes to me.

[Crogga]

Tetris, Pacman, Mario have had more players than WoW will ever have, so every game should be like them right? pff

 

Most of the shortcuts you love so much in WoW are NOT its strengths, rather they're lazy fixes for its shortcomings, because the developers couldn't be bothered with long-term improvements and the players choked down everything they were tossed, simply because of the lack of any viable alternatives on the market.

 

Hell, EVEN current WoW players themselves constantly complain about how much better the game was in [insert favorite pre-Cataclysm era] before Activision dumbed it down

 

 

 

and the next time you check WoW you should do a breakdown of how many players there are in each region. You'll be surprised.

 

Those games are not MMOs. Your comparison makes no sense and it was not one I made.

 

THink what you want about wow's features- the numbers speak for themselves. The only reason I left is because after 7 years it's getting old. It was by no means the features.

I could never go back to spamming all day or grinding out grand marshal.

 

Breakdown per region? After seven years you expect alot of people in each zone? You think that's the lfg features fault? lol.

[Dcayd]

Seriously. This game is already too lazy. Mounts and training are too cheap. They should cost 4-5x as much as they currently do.

 

Talent trees should be permanent. Screw up? Reroll. Every time they balance a classes abilities and the best spec last patch aint viable anymore, reroll.

 

Want to play the same AC in both pve and pvp but need a different spec for each? reroll.

 

Prof lvling is too easy. The first time you make anything should have a 60-90% chance at failing. Items that are green skilled should have 40-50% chance of failing.

 

We should have to eat every few game hours and sleep every few game hours or our toons will get tired and hungry debuffs and do 10-20% less damage/healing/aggro (for tanks).

 

Sprint should drain energy and when its out we have to walk.

 

Logging in is too easy. Just enter a password and authenticator number if you have one? Might as well just play the game for us too. We should have to call or email Bioware for a special login activation code that only lasts for 1 hour and then answer 10-15 security questions and general Star Wars trivia before being placed on a random server that may or may not have one of our characters on it. Oh, and you cant change servers unless you log in again.

 

 

All these idiotic post about making this game lazy or easy. Ez mode is not "having lfg tools or dual spec". It's dumbing down class abilities and rotations and simplifying encounters till any one can do it. All you want is inconvenient gameplay.

[Wrevan]

Those games are not MMOs. Your comparison makes no sense and it was not one I made.

 

THink what you want about wow's features- the numbers speak for themselves. The only reason I left is because after 7 years it's getting old. It was by no means the features.

I could never go back to spamming all day or grinding out grand marshal.

 

Breakdown per region? After seven years you expect alot of people in each zone? You think that's the lfg features fault? lol.

You seem obsessed with numbers.

 

Explain why those "numbers" have only been decreasing in recent times, so much that Activision was desperate enough to come up with the Annual Pass.

 

 

The only thing Activision seems to be doing right, is almost instantly deleting any overly critical threads right in the hour they're made, unlike BioWare seems to be doing here

Edited December 31, 2011 by Wrevan

[ZoiN]

Then make a second char. And if you find that boring, too bad. Not our problem. Or, you know, you can just stop complaining and be happy with what you have instead of wanting more and more. In this case you have a tank char, and a guild to tank for. But no, that's not enough for you is it? You need more. A second talent tree to switch to so you can also play your favourite spec in pvp. You only have one spec. Deal with it.

 

As for the OP: I completely agree. WoW had bred a huge player base of lazy people. They aren't used to just doing with what you have and having to put some effort into certain things, and instead want everything as easy, and having as many features as WoW. Dual spec, faster travel, rated pvp, an LFG tool, etc etc. Well if you like all of that so much, go to the game that has it rather than playing here. This is not WoW, deal with it.

 

I'm sorry, but what's wrong with wanting more out of you're gaming experience ?

 

Also, having to create a new character and level it up with the same advanced class is hard? Really ?

its more like tedious and annoying, that you'd have to recreate a character just because you'd actually want to have fun playing your character instead of actually having to go through the exact same story with the exact same class as well as advanced class just to have a differen't spec o.O?

 

Recreating a character is not hard, neither is having a dual spec easy, its just more convenient as repetitiveness is never fun. Unless ofcourse you think it is.

Edited December 31, 2011 by ZoiN

[shakunetsu]

I'm sorry, but what's wrong with wanting more out of you're gaming experience ?

 

Also, having to create a new character and level it up with the same advanced class is hard? Really ?

its more like tedious and annoying, that you'd have to recreate a character just because you'd actually want to have fun playing your character instead of actually having to go through the exact same story with the exact same class as well as advanced class just to have a differen't spec o.O?

 

Recreating a character is not hard, neither is having a dual spec easy, its just more convenient as repetitiveness is never fun. Unless ofcourse you think it is.

 

Ok so they might as well let ppl change AC based on your logic.

[MissTwilight]

Looking for groups queue ruin MMO's, dual spec also hurts MMO's, switching your advanced class later on in your progression will also destroy this MMO. WoW turned everyone into city whores just queuing. Bioware should not accommodate these lazy players. It killed wow, tor is amazing how it is now and all these whiny cry babies need to go back to wow.

 

You guys know I'm right.

 

I don't agree with a single thing you wrote.

 

BTW, the idea of a player being "lazy" was old before 2004, and moving away from that mindset is one of the reasons why WOW sprouted up like a weed and sucked up mega millions.

[twisted_and_mean]

Couldn't tell at first if OP was trolling or being sarcastic.

 

But on the second thought every improvement to the gameplay experience totally ruins it, doesn't it?

 

By the way, I just remembered one more thing that ruined WoW. It's the ever increasing availability of good gear. Now everyone and their mother can have it, not just a few pustular nerds, who have no life whatsoever. That's definitely the worst mistake MMO developers can only make, amirite?

[DrDismemberment]

Dual Spec is good but not dungeon ques SWTOR can go without them.

[Lennyx]

Looking for groups queue ruin MMO's, dual spec also hurts MMO's, switching your advanced class later on in your progression will also destroy this MMO. WoW turned everyone into city whores just queuing. Bioware should not accommodate these lazy players. It killed wow, tor is amazing how it is now and all these whiny cry babies need to go back to wow.

 

You guys know I'm right.

 

They already done what they can to keep players apart in this game.

So why there is no real LFG tool ingame already is weird imo.

[Dcayd]

An lfg tool does nothing to hurt player interaction. It's a pain lvling right now if I want to experience both the questing zones and flashpoints. I either have to choose to sit at fleet spamming general and constantly checking /who or just quest and hope i come across a few people in the zone that want to do the same flashpoint.

 

An lfg tool would be great for leveling players.

 

At 50 is another thing. Everyone points to WOW and it's "sit at your home city until your queue pops" design, but this wasn't a flaw of lfg tools, but a flaw of the devs for not giving anyone a reason to leave the cities at lvl cap. If Bioware, or any game company for that matter, makes sure there is valid content for people to do at 50 aside from sitting at fleet spamming for groups then this wont be a problem.

 

TLDR: lazy devs and poor content design hurt high lvl gameplay, not lfg tools.