Guardian PLayers ONLY - Others need not read.

[Mattjew]

Dear fellow Jedi Guardian players - Are we underpowered, or not?

 

I can never seem to beat enemy Sith players. Specifically the ones with lightsabers. I only really have a chance against Juggernauts, depending on their skill level.

 

I can sometimes take Bounty Hunters and other Gun Wielders, but by then a Sorcerer has usually completely bypassed my armor and ***** me.

 

I am looking for insight. Any tips, gear suggestions, tactics, and words of agreement would be appreciated, because I feel like we need a serious upgrade.

 

I can never use Riposte in PVP, because 99% of attacks are 100% accuracy Skills.

Riposte has a lot of points in my tree. It gives me that awesome shield for a few seconds.

 

I am level 27. I am sick of feeling squishy, when I am wearing the heaviest armor this game supplies, even with my shields on.

 

 

 

Please offer me some advice, as to how to win in PVP.

 

 

 

NOTE: If you play any other roles, do not reply. I don't care what you think, I want to hear from the struggling class of the Guardian.

[Ganan]

Dear fellow Jedi Guardian players - Are we underpowered, or not?

 

I can never seem to beat enemy Sith players. Specifically the ones with lightsabers. I only really have a chance against Juggernauts, depending on their skill level.

 

I can sometimes take Bounty Hunters and other Gun Wielders, but by then a Sorcerer has usually completely bypassed my armor and ***** me.

 

I am looking for insight. Any tips, gear suggestions, tactics, and words of agreement would be appreciated, because I feel like we need a serious upgrade.

 

I can never use Riposte in PVP, because 99% of attacks are 100% accuracy Skills.

Riposte has a lot of points in my tree. It gives me that awesome shield for a few seconds.

 

I am level 27. I am sick of feeling squishy, when I am wearing the heaviest armor this game supplies, even with my shields on.

 

 

 

Please offer me some advice, as to how to win in PVP.

 

 

 

NOTE: If you play any other roles, do not reply. I don't care what you think, I want to hear from the struggling class of the Guardian.

 

you are not underpowered at all, you have a spec that can deal massive aoe dmg very easily (if anything this is VERY overpowered and needs tunning down)and another spec that gives you great burst dmg while being very hard to kill AND CC.

 

problem is you only start to shine at around lvl 40 because most of the good stuff either comes late from trainer or from mid-end tier talents, unlinke some other classes who do well even lower lvl.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Ganan

[Mattjew]

you are not underpowered at all, you have a spec that can deal massive aoe dmg very easily (if anything this is VERY overpowered and needs tunning down)and another spec that gives you great burst dmg while being very hard to kill AND CC.

 

problem is you only start to shine at around lvl 40 because most of the good stuff either comes late from trainer or from mid-end tier talents, unlinke some other classes who do well even lower lvl.

 

Are you a guardian?

 

 

I am Defense spec. A couple points into Sundering Strike from another tree. THATS IT.

 

I do NOT have an overpowered AOE sweep. Nor do I have great burst damage.

 

Hard to kill? Sorcerers completely bypass my heavy armor.

[Vizuals]

Dear fellow Jedi Guardian players - Are we underpowered, or not?

 

I can never seem to beat enemy Sith players. Specifically the ones with lightsabers. I only really have a chance against Juggernauts, depending on their skill level.

 

I can sometimes take Bounty Hunters and other Gun Wielders, but by then a Sorcerer has usually completely bypassed my armor and ***** me.

 

I am looking for insight. Any tips, gear suggestions, tactics, and words of agreement would be appreciated, because I feel like we need a serious upgrade.

 

I can never use Riposte in PVP, because 99% of attacks are 100% accuracy Skills.

Riposte has a lot of points in my tree. It gives me that awesome shield for a few seconds.

 

I am level 27. I am sick of feeling squishy, when I am wearing the heaviest armor this game supplies, even with my shields on.

 

 

 

Please offer me some advice, as to how to win in PVP.

 

 

 

NOTE: If you play any other roles, do not reply. I don't care what you think, I want to hear from the struggling class of the Guardian.

 

We are in no way shape or form underpowered. If anything we may be the MOST OP class in the game. A ton of ways to close gaps, amazing burst and AOE, CC's that are very useful, the best armor in the game, taunts and shields for allies, what more can you want?

 

I see my guardian getting nerfed far before any of my other classes. I am a glass cannon on the battlefield the only thing is my glass is bulletproof triple layered unbreakable glass.

[Vizuals]

Are you a guardian?

 

 

I am Defense spec. A couple points into Sundering Strike from another tree. THATS IT.

 

I do NOT have an overpowered AOE sweep. Nor do I have great burst damage.

 

Hard to kill? Sorcerers completely bypass my heavy armor.

 

lol if you dont have an OP AOE you are doing it wrong

Edited December 31, 2011 by Vizuals

[Mattjew]

lol if you dont have an OP AOE you are doing it wrong

 

*** my AOE is so weak its rediculous.

 

I put almost all of my points into the far left column. Defense column. Nothing in there makes me threatning offensively. At all.

 

I thought it would balance out, being able to defend like a beast. Nope, the bolster took care of that. Made YOUR sweep OPd.

[Archaar]

Here's what I think. Put this in the Jedi Guardian forum where it belongs and LEARN TO PLAY YOUR CLASS.

[Zeromentor]

If you have time, create a toon on Kinrath Spider (PvP Server) and ask 'Enzo' to give you some tips. He isn't a 'L33T PRO MVP' player, but he can atleast help.

 

Or start stalking level 50 Guardians... Your call.

 

 

(NOTE: Beware Enzo, he is a troll. So is most of my guild.)

[Ganan]

Are you a guardian?

 

 

I am Defense spec. A couple points into Sundering Strike from another tree. THATS IT.

 

I do NOT have an overpowered AOE sweep. Nor do I have great burst damage.

 

Hard to kill? Sorcerers completely bypass my heavy armor.

 

by your standarts? yes I am a guardian, amongst many other things (I have not yet pick a main, but have a few 40+ an rest is 30+

 

if you are speced into the defence tree you wont have anything usefull acide from extra CC... your dmg will be low and mobility even lower...

not all specs work well for all purposes... if you are having problems in pvp, the first reason is you being 27, at higher levels options will open up, but still, you need to go into other specs to take theb est out of guardian in pvp.

 

sorcerers dont completly bypass your armor at all m8, their main attacks are energy dmg, armor is VERY good in this game, and that is NOT the only defencive strengh you have at all, you can increase your defence, your shield rating use defencive cooldowns etc.

 

but you should be hard to kill especially in that spec tbh... I know my guardian was hard to kill ever since he got his tanking form... hell just by tanking alone I got many gold badges in warzones.

 

bottomline is, at this stage for you, theres not much to be done, when you get to your mid 30's early 40's respec into the dps or shared tree dependending on what you prefer to be in pvp.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Ganan

[Mattjew]

by your standarts? yes I am a guardian, amongst many other things (I have not yet pick a main, but have a few 40+ an rest is 30+

 

if you are speced into the defence tree you wont have anything usefull acide from extra CC... your dmg will be low and mobility even lower...

not all specs work well for all purposes... if you are having problems in pvp, the first reason is you being 27, at higher levels options will open up, but still, you need to go into other specs to take theb est out of guardian in pvp.

 

sorcerers dont completly bypass your armor at all m8, their main attacks are energy dmg, armor is VERY good in this game.

 

but you should be hard to kill especially in that spec tbh... I know my guardian was hard to kill ever since he got his tanking form... hell just by tanking alone I got many gold badges in warzones.

 

bottomline is, at this stage for you, theres not much to be done, when you get to your mid 30's early 40's respec into the dps or shared tree dependending on what you prefer to be in pvp.

 

No, Sorcerers powerful moves are elemental. They bypass my armor.

 

I understand now, most of the PVP guardians have a lot of points in Vigilance I think. I even doubt they use Soresu form.

[Ganan]

No, Sorcerers powerful moves are elemental. They bypass my armor.

 

I understand now, most of the PVP guardians have a lot of points in Vigilance I think. I even doubt they use Soresu form.

 

most classes have attacks that bypass armor m8, not just sorcerers, but all classes main attacks are either energy or kinetic dmg, this includes the sorcerer's instant and channleed lightning attacks (his main nukes are energy damage, not elemental) armor mitigates those 2 damage types.

 

vigilance gives you burst and most importantly anti-CC aswell as talents to setup burst better, yes.

then you have what I suspect will be FOTM (already I see swarms of guards and jugs in warzones) the shared tree, for the imba 4-6k+ hitting aoe sweeps spec, this will prly be fixed, no way bioware intended a tanking class to do more aoe dmg per hit than burst classes can do to a single target...

 

and /giggle I use soretsu almost exclusively in warzones, believe it or not, even if you are low lvl and you play very badly or lag very badly, just being in soresu form, using your guard on healers/squishies and using taunts every cooldown, will get you ALOT of warzone golds :DDD

in fact is easier and more efficient to be a pvp tank than a pvp healer pre-lvl 50 pvp gear

not to mention help people survive.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Ganan

[Gaidax]

I put almost all of my points into the far left column. Defense column. Nothing in there makes me threatning offensively. At all...

 

Then spec into offense? No, like really?

 

It's almost like me on my Sniper complaining that my survivability is too low, when I spec 100% offense to the last percent.

 

 

Also if you have issues with non-Guardians posting and replying, then maybe you should have made this thread in Guardian forum?

[-Sin]

By level 30 I found Guardian had emerged into a complete class.

 

First of all, we provide a valuable (essential) role in team-based pvp. With guard floating across team members, taunt on high dps enemies, and challenge used whenever off cd, the first 4 protection medals are guaranteed. We also have a spammable AOE snare to peel off dps, a punt (Force Push) and shutdown (Force Stasis) to buy friendlies key moments of time and take dps out of the fight.

 

For 1v1 I find sticking on ranged is quite easy in this game, especially with the Unremitting talent in the Vigilance, again with the aforementioned AOE snare. Remember we have 3 interrupts to counter enemy CC and heal, we can really shutdown another class 1v1.

 

Our main issues I find are: 1) Key Unresponsiveness, far too often abilities do the animation and stop mid-way, this is the main game-breaking issue I have found. 2) Guard bugs, far too many bugs with this ability whereas no issues with it in Warhammer Online. 3) Overdone CC overall. However, none of these 3 issues is Guardian specific.

 

My recommendation would be to level up to the 30s, adjust spec; I would advise something like this http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500cMG0zZhRr0M.1 and give it another go. If still frustrated, it may be Guardian simply isn't the class for you and you'll have a better experience with something else.

[Raven]

...

 

vigilance gives you burst and most importantly anti-CC aswell as talents to setup burst better, yes.

then you have what I suspect will be FOTM (already I see swarms of guards and jugs in warzones) the shared tree, for the imba 4-6k+ hitting aoe sweeps spec, this will prly be fixed, no way bioware intended a tanking class to do more aoe dmg per hit than burst classes can do to a single target...

 

Could you please specify which talents enhances the aoe sweeps and what gives anti-cc in the vigilance tree? I'm asking because I don't see anything of that sort...

[Ganan]

Could you please specify which talents enhances the aoe sweeps and what gives anti-cc in the vigilance tree? I'm asking because I don't see anything of that sort...

 

<Guardian>

unremitting (exemple of anti-CC)

for burst, for example this talent coupled with gather strenght and the root from leap extention gives you very powerfull uninterruptable master strike setup, harder and longer to setup than a full charged sweep from the other tree... but .. well that needs nerf tbh.

 

 

singularity (the main talent that makes sweep damage go insane but couples with other talents ofc)

Edited December 31, 2011 by Ganan

[Mattjew]

OK - I was previously specced with every single point but one or two in DEFENSE tree. Go look at it, it does nothing offesnsively. Thats why I wasnt doing anything in PVP.

 

99% of you have specced moslty Vigilance. That must be the difference maker

[Thadris]

Ok. So well I'm a 40 Guardian and ill try to help u as much as I can. I am not calling my self a pro or any of the ways i build my Guardian to be the best or optimal, its just the way i like it.

 

To start of with I have tried my Guardian as a Vigilance from 1-39 and than Defense from 39-40 and yesterday i switched back to Vigilance. What iv noticed is that Defense works so much better in PvE and questing, especially when u get Doc as a companion while Vigilance works, its harder to survive and keep aggro on multiple mobs, but it can be done. But since u ask about PvP ill go to that now.

 

In PvP I have tried both specs and i personalty like the Vigilance better, however that dose not mean defense isn't viable or isn't as good, its just that i like Vigilance better. In Vigilance you have more DMG than defense for reasons that your 3 main abilities have DOT over time, (If you don't take the DOT in the tree for Overhead slash and Blade storm, big mistake IMO) and the final spell has the DOT on it already. You get nice AOE that cost nothing, you get a great chance for blade storm to CRIT as well. Your guardian leap applies to you as well. I like Vigilance Because I am still tanky and if left unchecked I can do tons of DMG. The stance I use is not a single. Its all. If im a in a fight and there are a lot of players and 1 or none are focusing me I use the Shien form. For 1v1 or through a lot of the PvP i use Shii Cho form and when i needs to tank or I'm 1v2 or more i switch to Soresu form. Switching between stance is important. Another thing that is important is to know who to go and focus. Focusing tanks in PvP isn't gonna get u anywhere unless they are the only one there. Focus Squishy targets or high DPS targets so you scare them off and make them run for their lives.

 

Now to defensive tree. I have used it in PvP, and IMO it is very viable, as much as Vigilance tree is. The reason i don't use it is because i prefer Vigilance, the DMG and all. But Defense works very well if you queue for PvP with a party of 3 or above. I have done it and it works really well. Defense tree give way more CC but no DOT and a bit higher survivability but somewhat less DMG. What i like about it is that Statis Field is not channeled anymore so you can use it and master stirke and 90% of the time you will get full master strike on the enemy, force leap stuns target. I give guard to my shadow or the one that dose most DMG. (Don't give guard to another guardian unless he has the ball in Huttball) In Civil War for example I bait and my shadow and whoever is there hide around the point. Enemy players jump on me. I CC their biggest DPS and my mates quickly kill the others if its a 3v3 or even a 4v3. We haven't lost unless the enemy has a really good healer. As a guardian in PvP you need to know who to CC and who to put guard on and protect. You will not do a lot of DMG as with Vigilance but you can help your teammates do the DMG while u CC the healer or the DPS dealer. And you need to use your AOE taunt as it decreases all DMG done to anyone but you.

 

Being a Vigilance Guardian you need to know when to switch stances, and you need to use you focus points as much as possible. Iv seen a lot of players not use Focus at all. You need to go for DPS targets in big fights and try to scare them off. As a Defense Guardian you need to know who to CC and who to put guard on and than you walk around with that person tanking, while they do the DMG. And again using Focus is important as it actually if for both Jedi Knight Advance classes. Because not using Focus = No DMG output.

 

If you have any questions or if anything is unclear you can ask. Im sure I messed up somewhere and something is unclear or maybe not what I intended to say.

 

Here is my current spec:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500ZIMrRMhddMR.1

 

Here is the spec I'm probably gonna use at 50:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500crZIMrRMhddMRZh.1

Edited December 31, 2011 by Thadris

[Polly_Pocket]

if you are speced into the defence tree you wont have anything usefull acide from extra CC...

 

You gave some 'ok' advice up until you said this, which is just wrong and shows you have not played the class extensively and I would not recommend your advice.

 

I play a 50 Gaurdian, and while the class does get outshined in some areas it is still very strong in the right hands.

 

First thing to note, I wouldn't even think about PvP'ing until you are 50. The Gaurdian is absolute garbage before then because it lacks the utility 40-50 abilities grant, such as Gaurdian Leap. PvP'n low level will just cause frustration, because Bounty Hunters and Inquisitors will destroy you every game.

 

Secondly, I play a hybrid defense build and very often am the #1 player at the end of the match when due to my high Gaurd Rating, High Objective Rating, High Kill count, and medium damage. The best medal count I've received is 11, which is extremely high. Hybrid tank Guardian goes 18 / 23 / 0. There are a number of guides for this build on the forum. I would suggest looking them up.

 

Finally, you need to recognize your job as a Gaurdian. It is to gaurd. Your primary role is not to deal damage. Make sure you keep taunting people, gaurding those getting low, using your AoE slow, and guardian leap to protect allies. In between all of this, you deal damage.

[Ganan]

You gave some 'ok' advice up until you said this, which is just wrong and shows you have not played the class extensively and I would not recommend your advice.

 

I never said I did

I didnt invest in defence tree and am not lvl 50 on my guardian simply because I didnt, and even after reading you post, still dont see, any meaningfull reason to spec for it tbh.

I can do the things you described just fine without specing into the tanking tree, even if I loose CC and a bit of survivability for extra burst dmg.

its a matter of preference, but I supose if you play as a coordenated team alot, yours is a pretty grand aproach

 

if defence works well Im happy about it, dont see how that invalidates my other advice tho

[russmanOR]

I like how a full defense spec/gear guardian can die in a stun from an infiltrator/scoundrel. World of Mage and Roguecraft all over again.

[Ganan]

I like how a full defense spec/gear guardian can die in a stun from an infiltrator/scoundrel. World of Mage and Roguecraft all over again.

 

hmm isnt defence useless in stunlocks? wouldnt expertise be much better?

[Polly_Pocket]

I like how a full defense spec/gear guardian can die in a stun from an infiltrator/scoundrel. World of Mage and Roguecraft all over again.

 

You need to re-state that a pre-50 defense spec gaurdian can die in a stun. Classes barely touch me 1 on 1 at 50. I can solo almost everyone 1 v 1 as well, albeit slowly.

[Polly_Pocket]

I never said I did

I didnt invest in defence tree and am not lvl 50 on my guardian simply because I didnt, and even after reading you post, still dont see, any meaningfull reason to spec for it tbh.

I can do the things you described just fine without specing into the tanking tree, even if I loose CC and a bit of survivability for extra burst dmg.

its a matter of preference, but I supose if you play as a coordenated team alot, yours is a pretty grand aproach

 

if defence works well Im happy about it, dont see how that invalidates my other advice tho

 

The meaningful reason to spec hybrid tank for pvp is that you can almost never die, you can keep your healer alive forever, and you can hold points like a champion. Tank spec gaurdians at 50 are absolutely godly with a healer, but even without one, they are still very good.

 

Focus spec is a 1 trick aoe pony that's gated by another cooldown, which I personally don't like. You are also a lot more squish as Focus spec, since you won't be buying the Defense/Endurance gear.

 

Both are viable though, I just think defense is miles ahead of focus.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Polly_Pocket

[Ganan]

The meaningful reason to spec hybrid tank for pvp is that you never die, you can keep your healer alive forever, and you can hold points like a champion. Tank spec gaurdians at 50 are absolutely godly with a healer, but even without one, they are still very good.

 

Focus spec is a 1 trick aoe pony that's gated by another cooldown, which I personally don't like. You are also a lot more squish as Focus spec, since you won't be buying the Defense/Endurance gear.

 

Both are viable though, I just think defense is miles ahead of focus.

 

Im tempted to finish leveling my guard now

can you link me your exact spec? (Im lazy to figure the defence tree out lol)

[Polly_Pocket]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500fMG0uMZhGrMMhzzM.1

 

Using this to tank Hard Modes and PvP.