SWG VS SWTOR

[TonyTricicolo]

Videos comparing the two Star Wars MMOs:

https://youtu.be/eC8LacnQ1bc?si=gXmFPASDGpgxszxd

https://youtu.be/NPyYmugewGs?si=dmpweRy1FtaIkwtY

https://youtu.be/N33z6Wjicyk?si=XIfbOZ4ixE6A3z19

https://youtu.be/SP7ugJ84JUk?si=C4XD5RA5d8cOJH8o

 

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”

 

Edited July 11 by TonyTricicolo

[Pirana]

I got into a small discussion on Legends Discord about this, this morning. Most people there cannot stand SWTOR, it is amazing the hate this game gets... I can only assume it's due to how SWG closed and this one opened, it's been nearly thirteen years, let it go already. lol 

Both games have their pluses and minuses. Just a quick rundown for people that don't want to watch those. Napyet's videos are always entertaining though, definitely worth the watch.

End game:  SWTOR wins hands down.
Space:  SWG's JTL, not remotely close.
Crafting:  SWG, it's one of the areas that the game is known for in the MMO genre.
Story:  SWTOR, Only ESO and FF14 are comparable, obviously subjective. SWG's story barely exists.
Classes:  Subjective. I enjoy both game's classes.
Difficulty:  SWTOR. Most of SWG's end game pve can be beat solo and their pvp is about the same as here, don't stand still, LoS, and know the other class, this one would still be more difficult due to the abilities not being instant and positioning mattering more. All abilities in SWG are instant.
Dungeons:  SWTOR. There are probably less than fifteen total in SWG, including the Mustafar and Kash content, they also don't have raids.
Trinity:  SWTOR. You don't need a tank in the bulk of SWG's content, it's dps race. While nice at times, it makes the content trivial, which is why most of it can be done solo with the right class.
Housing:  Toss-up. The aesthetics are better here, but you can do a lot more with SWG's decorating. There aren't hooks, you can place items anywhere, even on the ceiling. 
Graphics:  SWTOR. Not close for age related reasons

Might be a few other areas I'm missing, but that's the gist of it. As for the other videos. I won't comment on those, people should give them a watch though, gives some insight on what occurred.  

[TonyTricicolo]

Having played both I'm torn. Pre-Cu SWG and Beta SWTOR. Suffice to say I've pretty much seen it all. SWG will always hold a special place in my heart because of the social aspect more so than SWTOR. I miss going in to the Mos Eisley cantina to get buffs and just hanging out with the people. SWTOR lacks that. 

 

[Pirana]

Yeah, two completely different games. Both appeal to me, and for some, only ones appeals to them. I enjoy both for what they offer. SWG was my first MMO though, so I'm there with ya on the sentimentality aspect of it. 

[Nee-Elder]

3 hours ago, Pirana said:

SWG's story barely exists.

i take great issue with that ^ , since  you seem to forget ( or discount )  the original  SWG tagline...  The Greatest Saga Ever Told:  YOURS .

In other words,  SWG's  "story" was  only limited by the PLAYER's ( and Community's ) own imagination.

As opposed to SWTOR's , which is of course very very limited by whatever  "content"  a handful of  mostly  disgruntled ( or indifferent )  Designers  felt like, or were ordered to, churn out.

So yeah, i vehemently disagree with your statement up there ^^ .

The rest of your post is pretty spot on though ( obviously ) .

Although , tbqh  it's not even really a fair comparison.  Never has been.   re:  sandbox vs. themepark  ( apples to oranges )

[Pirana]

9 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i take great issue with that ^ , since  you seem to forget ( or discount )  the original  SWG tagline...  The Greatest Saga Ever Told:  YOURS .

In other words,  SWG's  "story" was  only limited by the PLAYER's ( and Community's ) own imagination.

As opposed to SWTOR's , which is of course very very limited by whatever  "content"  a handful of  mostly  disgruntled ( or indifferent )  Designers  felt like, or were ordered to, churn out.

So yeah, i vehemently disagree with your statement up there ^^ .

The rest of your post is pretty spot on though ( obviously ) .

Although , tbqh  it's not even really a fair comparison.  Never has been.   re:  sandbox vs. themepark  ( apples to oranges )

Of course there's that tagline, hard to argue with subjectivity. lol 

I've mentioned it for years, two completely different games, why I enjoy them both, I wouldn't want them to be the same. 

[Nee-Elder]

4 hours ago, Pirana said:

 I wouldn't want them to be the same. 

Honestly,  seeing what's  sadly become of SWTOR  over the past few years ( including the blatant  neglect of  GSF )  , i always wished  SWTOR had instead been  SWG-2 ...and i still do.

imo ,  sandbox  is ultimately far superior than themepark .   Especially long term.

But alas , the way of the sandbox MMO  is all but  gone like the Dinosaurs.

And i don't see any  Raph Koster  type visionaries  walking thru  the development door anytime soon either.

Edited July 12 by Nee-Elder

[Pirana]

10 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

Honestly,  seeing what's  sadly become of SWTOR  over the past few years ( including the blatant  neglect of  GSF )  , i always wished  SWTOR had instead been  SWG-2 ...and i still do.

imo ,  sandbox  is ultimately far superior than themepark .   Especially long term.

But alas , the way of the sandbox MMO  is all but  gone like the Dinosaurs.

And i don't see any  Raph Koster  type visionaries  walking thru  the development door anytime soon either.

There was hope on the SOE forums at the time during this game's beta, that this would be a part two, but considering the game was being based off of Kotor, I'm still not sure where some came up with those ideas. Some of the people that I ran with were always hoping that both games could coincide, but when it's all said and done, it's about the money. One had to go, and given SOE's track record with their product, it wasn't a hard decision.

Sandbox v Themepark, obviously Themepark wins out in today's world, the genre is littered with Themepark MMO's. People prefer more streamlined content. I'm fine either way, as long as the game has a lot of end game content. 
 

[Nee-Elder]

2 hours ago, Pirana said:

. People prefer more streamlined content.

SOME people do.  Some don't.

It's just like anything else.   If you build it, 'they' will come.

And, imho,  it's entirely possible to have BOTH  sandbox & themepark  exist ( equally ) within the same MMORPG .

Original SWTOR  devs actually "promised" us that very thing in   early alpha testing phase, hence why the original planets like  Tatooine & Hoth & Alderaan, etc.  are so expansive and  "open world"  ( including  mystery discoveries and mini-actions like  'tethering'  & such )

In fact, the tragic irony is:  SWG  finally got it right toward the end of it's run , as far as  sandbox/themepark   balancing  act.    If only they had been given time by LucasArts , before the 1st dumb decision to obliterate  Pre-cu  combat style in favor of  the CU ...and then absolute dumbest decision of all time  to obliterate the very tolerable  CU combat style in favor of the ridiculously awful  hyperfast 'Benny Hill'  clickfest combat style  NGE with synthetic pathetic ui.  (  *it wasn't until the end of SWG , when the  NGE-2  which was a hybrid of CU & NGE ,  eventually  felt  more proper combat.  Although still not as good as CU era  and still never as elegant as Pre-cu , imo. )

Edited July 12 by Nee-Elder

[Pirana]

8 hours ago, Nee-Elder said:

SOME people do.  Some don't.

It's just like anything else.   If you build it, 'they' will come.

And, imho,  it's entirely possible to have BOTH  sandbox & themepark  exist ( equally ) within the same MMORPG .

Original SWTOR  devs actually "promised" us that very thing in   early alpha testing phase, hence why the original planets like  Tatooine & Hoth & Alderaan, etc.  are so expansive and  "open world"  ( including  mystery discoveries and mini-actions like  'tethering'  & such )

In fact, the tragic irony is:  SWG  finally got it right toward the end of it's run , as far as  sandbox/themepark   balancing  act.    If only they had been given time by LucasArts , before the 1st dumb decision to obliterate  Pre-cu  combat style in favor of  the CU ...and then absolute dumbest decision of all time  to obliterate the very tolerable  CU combat style in favor of the ridiculously awful  hyperfast 'Benny Hill'  clickfest combat style  NGE with synthetic pathetic ui.  (  *it wasn't until the end of SWG , when the  NGE-2  which was a hybrid of CU & NGE ,  eventually  felt  more proper combat.  Although still not as good as CU era  and still never as elegant as Pre-cu , imo. )

Gonna have to disagree with the first statement. Sandbox MMO's have proven over the last fifteen years, they've taken a backseat to Themeparks. Almost the entire landscape are Themeparks. New World has plenty of sandbox elements to it, and if you remove the exploits when the game first launched, is still fails miserably. SWG, why are you not playing it? Why are a lot of people here not playing it? I've posted the Legends link many times on this forum, and almost every response is, they're not interested in trying it out or returning to it. 

I do agree with your statement about SOE finally getting right towards the end, notably with their group content and with Legacy, which was more or less what I was originally referring to when I stated, their story barely exists, because all there is, is you working for Jabba and a few others until you eventually wind up on Talus, might be Rori. But Legacy is not a good story, it's obvious it was thrown in to appease the players, because the older leveling system, quite frankly, was beyond terrible, killing lairs to farm skill points and almost no end game, that's why the game changed, it was bad game, extremely bad. And not having Jedi as a starting class, big fail there, especially with the prequels occurring at the time. That's like going to a grocery store and there's not a deli or a butcher, simply a bad decision. 

So yes, towards the end SOE finally got it right, too little, too late. I would have kicked SOE to the curb too had I been an investor or worked for Lucas Arts. Where is SOE now, it was sold to Daybreak or whoever owns it now. Had they released the 2011 version of SWG in in 2003, it's possible it never closes, and this game never comes to fruition. They didn't have the foresight, nobody did really, when it came to the MMO landscape. Blizzard certainly did and still does. 
 

[Nee-Elder]

1 hour ago, Pirana said:

 Sandbox MMO's have proven over the last fifteen years, they've taken a backseat to Themeparks.

That's  due to many factors ,  not necessarily only because of any  substantial  playerbase preference or lack thereof.

Gamers are like termites or locusts.  They'll eat pretty much ANYTHING , since they ( like most "modern" technology addicted humans ) are  utterly insatiable.

1 hour ago, Pirana said:

 SWG, why are you not playing it?

First , i helped work on SWG ( toward the end )  and in some ways i won't go into now basically kept our server ( Shadowfire ) active/afloat.

Secondly,  i then worked as QA/Coder ( basic bug fixes and such )  for the original  'SWGEmu'  project.  You know, the one all the other  servers/versions  were either inspired by or  umm "borrowed" code from.   ( yeah yeah  open source  blah blah whatever i know )

Lastly,  despite my love & loyalty toward SWG,  it's now nearly 25 years  old from it's inception.   Best for it, and all it stood for, to remain "playing" with my memory banks.   It served me quite well, over many eras & incarnations , and i in turn served it  equally as well.   Now, time to let go and move onto something else.   And perhaps, by some miracle,  SWG-2  type game ( or something similar ) will  release in the future.

1 hour ago, Pirana said:

, because the older leveling system, quite frankly, was beyond terrible, killing lairs to farm skill points and almost no end game, that's why the game changed, it was bad game, extremely bad.

Wow.  umm ... just wow.   That is your opinion.  Fine.

I'll just say this:  i had more fun grinding multiple  Skill-Trees and  "farming lairs"  with a legit  online COMMUNITY  of players , sharing our collective STAR WARS  imaginations, on a weekly sometimes daily basis , than i ever did with any  themepark-fed  content.

And if you, or anyone who shares your opinion,  doesn't understand  what i'm talking about then frankly you never experienced  SWG  utopia and you never will.

That's just a fact.   Doesn't mean you're a bad person or that i don't still agree with some of your other points.   Just means you either missed out  or  are missing that elusive thing all of us who experienced  Pre-cu (and CU )  were  blessed to experience.....and remember.

*oh and BTW:   Jedi  couldn't  and shouldn't have ever been a  "starter Class" , because the  timeline was  between  Ep. 4 & Ep. 5 , when Jedi were being HUNTED and  had to be in HIDING.   So yeah, strongly disagree with you there sorry dude.

Edited July 13 by Nee-Elder
Reason: spelling

[Pirana]

39 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

That's  due to many factors ,  not necessarily only because of any  substantial  playerbase preference or lack thereof.

Gamers are like termites or locusts.  They'll eat pretty much ANYTHING , since they ( like most "modern" technology addicted humans ) are  utterly insatiable.

The one factor is that Themeparks are more desirable in today's world is simply because our culture has changed over the decades. When people are given a plethora of opportunities, they're almost always going to take the path of least resistance. Sandbox MMO's will never be big again, and yes, you can quote me on that, lol, if I'm wrong, which is highly unlikely, I'll admit to it. My teen years were the 80's, if we had the internet back then, it would be no different than today. Cellphones and the internet has changed how we think and do things. Sandbox MMO's are a relic of the past.

First , i helped work on SWG ( toward the end )  and in some ways i won't go into now basically kept our server ( Shadowfire ) active/afloat.

Secondly,  i then worked as QA/Coder ( basic bug fixes and such )  for the original  'SWGEmu'  project.  You know, the one all the other  servers/versions  were either inspired by or  umm "borrowed" code from.   ( yeah yeah  open source  blah blah whatever i know )

Lastly,  despite my love & loyalty toward SWG,  it's now nearly 25 years  old from it's inception.   Best for it, and all it stood for, to remain "playing" with my memory banks.   It served me quite well, over many eras & incarnations , and i in turn served it  equally as well.   Now, time to let go and move onto something else.   And perhaps, by some miracle,  SWG-2  type game ( or something similar ) will  release in the future.

Second point, understandable. I quit SWG in early of 2011 because the game no longer appealed to me. When the closure announcement was made from SOE, I quit Rift and WoW both, re-subbed to go down with the ship. Other games were better and living in the past isn't something I enjoy. I still log in occasionally to SWG Legends to run their yearly events or help noobs on their Discord, other than that, I don't play the game. It's too old, been there, done it. 

Wow.  umm ... just wow.   That is your opinion.  Fine.

I'll just say this:  i had more fun grinding multiple  Skill-Trees and  "farming lairs"  with a legit  online COMMUNITY  of players , sharing our collective STAR WARS  imaginations, on a weekly sometimes daily basis , than i ever did with any  themepark-fed  content.

Third point, yes that is my opinion regarding that older system, and obviously SOE felt the same, or it wouldn't have been changed. They finally realized this is a business, give players what they want, not what they think will work, very similar to SWTOR. The two games and their failures parallel each other quite well, unfortunately. 

And if you, or anyone who shares your opinion,  doesn't understand  what i'm talking about then frankly you never experienced  SWG  utopia and you never will.

That's just a fact.   Doesn't mean you're a bad person or that i don't still agree with some of your other points.   Just means you either missed out  or  are missing that elusive thing all of us who experienced  Pre-cu (and CU )  were  blessed to experience.....and remember.

*oh and BTW:   Jedi  couldn't  and shouldn't have ever been a  "starter Class" , because the  timeline was  between  Ep. 4 & Ep. 5 , when Jedi were being HUNTED and  had to be in HIDING.   So yeah, strongly disagree with you there sorry dude.

Final point regarding Jedi, again, this is a business, it's about making money, so it was eventually changed. That was a poor business venture to take. Immersion and timelines meant little to them towards the end.  They finally realized their vision wasn't working. 

Answers in bold. 

Edited July 13 by Pirana

[Nee-Elder]

24 minutes ago, Pirana said:

Answers in bold. 

i can't  quote you when you place answers within my quote.

But whatever  it's a pointless "argument"  anyway.

Your  claims about SOE are dead wrong though.  ( i was privy to certain internal convos,  as well as personally  PM'd with Raph Koster the genius architect himself ) .  SOE  didn't think the game was "bad" .  Quite the contrary in fact.   It was  ONE person at LucasArts , who  for legal reasons i cannot  name here on these forums.   But it rhymes with  Foolio Dumbaz.   He & only HE  was responsible for the  NGE betrayal & debacle.

Anyways,  fun  back&forth  we just had but  i'm done before i get into trouble.

Edited July 13 by Nee-Elder
Reason: gotta tread lightly here lol

[Pirana]

6 minutes ago, Nee-Elder said:

i can't  quote you when you place answers within my quote.

But whatever  it's a pointless "argument"  anyway.

Your  claims about SOE are dead wrong though.  ( i was privy to certain internal convos,  as well as personally  PM'd with Raph Koster the genius architect himself ) .  SOE  didn't think the game was "bad" .  Quite the contrary in fact.   It was  ONE person at LucasArts , who  for legal reasons i cannot  name here on these forums.   But it rhymes with  Foolio Dumbaz.   He & only HE  was responsible for the  NGE betrayal & debacle.

Anyways,  fun  back&forth  we just had but  i'm done before i get into trouble.

Not worth getting yourself into trouble over something as trivial as a disagreement. As the old adage goes, proof is in the pudding. SWG closed and L.A. was smart enough to move on without them. 

[StreetBob]

I started SWG about 3-4 weeks before JTL launched. JTL was the primary reason I began playing SWG and stuck with it. Sure, I did ground stuff and ground PVP with friends but space PVP and PVE was primarily where I spent most of my game time. JTL was amazing, you could totally customize your ship with everything from looks to loadout. I spent countless hours hunting down parts to reverse engineer to customize my fleet of starfighters with.

I enjoyed the pre-CU with my main character, a Rodian pikeman/doctor and doing krayt hunts with my friends and guildmates. I enjoyed the CU, it was fun to have my Rodian running as a carbineer/commando to wreak havoc on mobs for friends to kill. I disliked aspects of the NGE, like the pairing down the classes to being Boba Fett with bug eyes or Lando Calrissian with lekku, but I still played on, as a commando, because of JTL and my friends.

I started with SWTOR at launch, and have played since launch minus a brief nearly year long hiatus due to real world factors. The class stories are a nice touch and certainly geared towards making this a solo-friendly game. I've done all of the class stories, some were fun while some were boring and forgettable. I still play because its Star Wars and I enjoy my main character, an Arsenal merc bounty hunter, even if he's not using the greatest or most powerful spec to run.

The space roller coaster missions are lazy, boring, and predictable, with really zero aspect in customizing your ship like you could in JTL. I can't stand GSF, it's nowhere near as fun and engaging as JTL (not to mention you can't use a joystick to fly with) and having built-in skills on components is lazy and boring. Going toe-to-toe against an opponent where skill trumped gear in JTL usually got my adrenaline pumping whereas GSF just bores me to no end and provides zero excitement like JTL.

I'm not really interested in playing any of the SWG revivals, it just wouldn't be the same without the friends and pilot community I had in SWG. Even if I could relive those days on a pre-CU server, it just wouldn't be the same without the people I flew with and against and built a great community with. SWG happened, I enjoyed SWG while it lasted. I'm enjoying SWTOR while it lasts. Whenever the next Star Wars MMO comes around, I'll likely play that and enjoy it while it lasts as well.

[Pirana]

16 hours ago, StreetBob said:

I'm not really interested in playing any of the SWG revivals, it just wouldn't be the same without the friends and pilot community I had in SWG. Even if I could relive those days on a pre-CU server, it just wouldn't be the same without the people I flew with and against and built a great community with. SWG happened, I enjoyed SWG while it lasted. I'm enjoying SWTOR while it lasts. Whenever the next Star Wars MMO comes around, I'll likely play that and enjoy it while it lasts as well.

Only highlighting this part because sometimes people have a habit of living in the past instead of enjoying the future. I remember my youth fondly, but I don't live there. It's important for people to live for today and not looking in the rearview mirror. 

When SWG Reborn, now SWG Legends first went live over eight years ago, I knew I could never relive the past, it's simply impossible. SWG was my first MMO and the endorphin rush of playing that game for the first time back then, like most things, cannot be duplicated. Enjoy what we have and live for today and the future. Only learn from the past, don't live in it.  

[akdonkey]

I tried out a few of the EMU's I could not get back into it after I lost so much. I use to Run Kevag the Janta bot on starsider. I was top chronicler all three of my toons on starsider and server wide. Because of my Janta bot system. I miss it. Like others I just could not get into it again.