Remove falling damage.

[Rohndogg]

5 hours ago, Dareel said:

As much as I love "Slow Fall" in WoW, I don't think implementing it as an ability is an appropriate way for SWTOR.

Adding this effect to mounts make more sense, and would probably be easier to implement.

For example:

• All jet-packs like mounts add a medium fall damage reduction no matter the height.
• All beast/walkers/ground mounts have bigger fall damage reduction of smaller heights, and lower fall damage reduction on higher heights.
• All speeder/hover mounts have lower fall damage reduction on smaller heights, and bigger fall damage reduction on higher heights.

Something like this would lessen the annoyance of it, could make it cool if there is also a "Slow Fall"-like animation, but won't remove dangers of fall damage completely.

This is a bad idea and makes it pay to win. I categorically disagree. When basically every jetpack is CM item...

The majority of mounts are CM. Having different effects makes it pay to win because you can buy better mounts. They all need to be exactly the same at the bare minimum. The moment I can buy something that behaves mechanically different than the in-game items that can't be bought with CC the game has become pay to win. That does not fly with me.

I do not think this is a good idea for the health of this game.

[Dareel]

1 hour ago, Rohndogg said:

This is a bad idea and makes it pay to win. I categorically disagree. When basically every jetpack is CM item...

 

No, it's not.

First - There are mounts that are jetpack or jetpack-like from Galactic Seasons & Ops. Plus everybody has an option of Rocket Boosts, also jetpack-like.

Second - Jetpacks are NOT the best. They are mid. Idea is specifically targets mount classes, not specific mounts, so mounts from CM and in-game would perform exactly the same in their class.

So it doesn't matter if mount comes from CM or GS or from anywhere else - it gives the same performance as any other mount in its class. There is NO pay to win.

Basically:

• Want to jump from a lower height - ground mounts are the best
• Want to jump from a big height - speeder mounts are the best
• Don't want to care much - Jetpacks and Rocket Boosts

Reason for such intricacies is pretty simple - there is a little reason for ground mounts to provide full "slow fall". But if such differences in mounts are a problem, then only speeder/jetpacks/boosts provide (all exactly the same) "slow fall" effect, but I don't think it's better because it lacks flavor, imo.

[Rohndogg]

You skipped my point. Having differences at all is the issue. If you're gonna do it which I don't think you should anyway for reasons previously stated, you need to keep all things even across the board. Especially since seasons was and is time sensitive. You basically punish newer players at the minimum in that scenario. Especially since rocket boost is a legacy thing that mus be unlocked and purchased as well. New players don't start able to buy it. Or at least didn't last I checked. It's not bueno to me.

[supertimtaf]

On 5/4/2024 at 8:30 PM, Poje said:

I've been wishing for at least 10 years that falling damage could be negated, like a "feather fall" ability or something, like in WoW.

Then i thought about it and it doesn't need to be complicated, just remove falling damage from the game and add a lil animation, like using the force or jet pack, ect...

You can see in many movies, series, anime, characters jumping from buildings and staying alive easily. It's lame that in SWTOR you can die from that!

 

 

You can do it!

 

Poje

The main issue is that this game's version of "fall damage" applies for both the damage you take when you land too far and the thing that kills you if you fall out of bounds in a map (let's say when you're on the imperial fleet and you jump down in the void of the pvp section). So for that to happen it would require them to rework fall damage entirely to make a difference between "landing damage" and "you're-not-supposed-to-be-here fall damage". Based on the dev team's recent work, I would dare say that this will not happen.

[Dareel]

1 hour ago, Rohndogg said:

You skipped my point. Having differences at all is the issue. If you're gonna do it which I don't think you should anyway for reasons previously stated, you need to keep all things even across the board. Especially since seasons was and is time sensitive. You basically punish newer players at the minimum in that scenario. Especially since rocket boost is a legacy thing that mus be unlocked and purchased as well. New players don't start able to buy it. Or at least didn't last I checked. It's not bueno to me.

What exactly have I skipped?

New player can play the game and progress - buy a speeder, get to legacy lvl and buy boosts, get season tokens and buy a jetpack from an off-season vendor.

Ability to get a mount with CC to zoom around sooner already exist in the game. Nothing changes here.

and

3 hours ago, Dareel said:

... But if such differences in mounts are a problem, then only speeder/jetpacks/boosts provide (all exactly the same) "slow fall" effect, ...

as we know from the movies, Varactyl can't prevent fall damage, speeders and jetpacks can. At the very least, initial flavor for the idea is about not making them completely outclassed.

For no difference at all - ok, only Rocket Boosts have slow fall effect. Now everybody is completely on the same playing field - play the game and get the ability. 

I like mounts to provide slow fall only because I would like it to be available to all characters. If it were a combat style ability then only Force Users and BH would have it, maybe trooper but even that is questionable in the game time period.

Anyway,

A schematic for Cybertech to create a Wookie Glider, a consumable item that opens a glider for a slow fall effect (or a parachute - Wookiechute). Requires mats from Scavenging and parts created with Synthweaving. Can be used by anyone, and can be sold on GTN.

It would probably need to be unusable in PvP/PvE instances, or even in combat as a whole.

Hope it wouldn't be pay to win because it requires for new players to level up a crew skill.

Edited June 24 by Dareel

[Pirana]

No, terrible idea. Without giving it much thought at all, the EV Op where everyone needs to jump down and fall damage is inevitable and ultimately becomes a heal check would be negated. There's dozens, if not hundreds of other situations that would make this game easier. There should be consequences for making poor decisions, play better. 

[Rohndogg]

On 6/24/2024 at 4:50 PM, Dareel said:

New player can play the game and progress - buy a speeder, get to legacy lvl and buy boosts, get season tokens and buy a jetpack from an off-season vendor.

I'll be real, didn't know the HK one got put on that vendor. So cool, there's one. That could potentially change though. But until you JUST said it, I didn't even know to look at that vendor to see if it was there. There's nothing on it I had interest in honestly so I kinda forget it even exists.

That said, I still disagree to a large extent because ultimately I don't think having the different levels is a particularly good idea anyway as it just adds unnecessary confusion imo.

But even beyond that, as I and others have previously stated, too much of this game is built around the idea that falling can and often will kill you. I don't think there's a good reason for a slow fall mechanic in this game beyond dying to it or wanting to skip large areas. When speeder points and qt are as convenient as they are now, I don't think we need it at all.

So while I concede that I was wrong about no f2p jetpacks I still disagree with the idea as a whole for other additional reasons. And my point about new players not able to buy it, it's because I'm pretty sure it costs 2mil credits and the f2p cap is 1 mil. If they changed it, then I may now be wrong.

Oh, and disagree on principle for your final comment because you're being a condescending, sarcastic ass and I've been civil and not thrown mocking or insults at you. So you lose all credibility and respect with me. Be better. Have a day.

Edited June 25 by Rohndogg
Decided I will call out your last comment

[Anhkriva]

6 hours ago, Rohndogg said:

So while I concede that I was wrong about no f2p jetpacks I still disagree with the idea as a whole for other additional reasons. And my point about new players not able to buy it, it's because I'm pretty sure it costs 2mil credits and the f2p cap is 1 mil. If they changed it, then I may now be wrong.

If I remember correctly, the HK jetpack costs 3 seasonal tokens, not credits, so a f2p player can definitely buy it.

[Dareel]

12 hours ago, Rohndogg said:

But even beyond that, as I and others have previously stated, too much of this game is built around the idea that falling can and often will kill you. I don't think there's a good reason for a slow fall mechanic in this game beyond dying to it or wanting to skip large areas. When speeder points and qt are as convenient as they are now, I don't think we need it at all.

Personally I don't see a problem of slow fall in open world. Since mounts/rocket boosts don't work in combat - there is no problem for mechanics in any content. If slow fall effect would be gained from a consumable item - it could have the same restrictions. These restrictions already make slow fall from items (mounts/whatever) better than a combat style ability. 

It's a just a cool mechanic for the fun of using it. More fun never hurts a game!

12 hours ago, Rohndogg said:

So while I concede that I was wrong about no f2p jetpacks I still disagree with the idea as a whole for other additional reasons. And my point about new players not able to buy it, it's because I'm pretty sure it costs 2mil credits and the f2p cap is 1 mil. If they changed it, then I may now be wrong.

Your previous messages looked like your reasons were - new players need to progress in the game to get an advantage and that is why it's bad. Progression in RPG to get any advantages in a fundamental thing and should not be a problem.

Imo, the game should not be revolving around F2P. F2P already have options to get any type of mount of crew skill consumable. It is already much more fair in that regard compared to majority of other games. Also:

6 hours ago, Anhkriva said:

If I remember correctly, the HK jetpack costs 3 seasonal tokens, not credits, so a f2p player can definitely buy it.

In addition, if players subs and does Ops - there is another jetpack mount as a drop.

12 hours ago, Rohndogg said:

Oh, and disagree on principle for your final comment because you're being a condescending, sarcastic ass and I've been civil and not thrown mocking or insults at you. So you lose all credibility and respect with me. Be better. Have a day.

Ok. Next time somebody gives you a polite, respectful and reasonable answer don't go around and accuse them of something they didn't do. Read and research what you don't know instead. Have a nice day!

[recalcitrantIre]

17 minutes ago, Dareel said:

Since mounts/rocket boosts don't work in combat - there is no problem for mechanics in any content.

you aren't automatically dismounted when you enter combat so this isn't as much of a determining factor as you think it is

On 6/25/2024 at 4:17 AM, supertimtaf said:

The main issue is that this game's version of "fall damage" applies for both the damage you take when you land too far and the thing that kills you if you fall out of bounds in a map (let's say when you're on the imperial fleet and you jump down in the void of the pvp section). So for that to happen it would require them to rework fall damage entirely to make a difference between "landing damage" and "you're-not-supposed-to-be-here fall damage". Based on the dev team's recent work, I would dare say that this will not happen.

'kill volumes' are calculated differently, there's no variable factor like fall damage, you simply die as a result of intersecting with them

 

and I can almost guarantee this isn't the first thread on this topic, the game has been designed in particular ways for particular reasons, if the devs had the faintest inclination towards removing fall damage it probably would have happened years ago

[Dareel]

20 minutes ago, recalcitrantIre said:

you aren't automatically dismounted when you enter combat so this isn't as much of a determining factor as you think it is

In open world right now - when mounted you can still zoom past mobs even if aggro. If slow fall on mounts and if damage taken dismounts you - would be a little bit funny unexpected fall.

In instanced content - I don't know any encounter which you can enter mounted and cheese it by having slow fall. Damage is too high to stay mounted, Rocket boosts have a duration and cannot be reactivated in combat.

So, are there any encounters where you can have an easy advantage by entering mounted?

If there is - then is a reason to have this effect as a consumable item as the only practical option. An even if used before combat starts, first it would not have a long duration (~10 sec) and entering combat could remove/disable this effect. 

[Rohndogg]

On 6/24/2024 at 4:50 PM, Dareel said:

Hope it wouldn't be pay to win because it requires for new players to level up a crew skill.

This was the condescending comment. This is the sarcasm. This is not you being polite. This is not you being respectful. I don't care if you disagree with me. But you don't get to pretend you were perfectly polite when you weren't.

And I'd argue the game isn't revolving around free to play so much as accounting for it. Which on that note it is a "Free to play MMORPG" so arguably it should revolve around f2p. But I think it has a pretty good balance as far as sub v f2p. Obviously we both had some misunderstandings of each other's points. I owned mine, you owned yours, that's all fair and good.

Just drop the added sassy disrespectful jab at the end and this can be a respectful conversation.

But I'll leave it up to you to have the day you deserve.

[Dareel]

1 minute ago, Rohndogg said:

This was the condescending comment.

Yes, I know.

3 minutes ago, Rohndogg said:

This is the sarcasm. This is not you being polite. This is not you being respectful. I don't care if you disagree with me. But you don't get to pretend you were perfectly polite when you weren't.

Not in this message. In my first reply to you. Please, pay attention. I don't pretend.

4 minutes ago, Rohndogg said:

And I'd argue the game isn't revolving around free to play so much as accounting for it. Which on that note it is a "Free to play MMORPG" so arguably it should revolve around f2p. But I think it has a pretty good balance as far as sub v f2p.

F2P doesn't pay for the game, it's only adds to costs. It's safe to say that at least majority of us wants for the game to continue and have more content. It's a business, it needs to make money. F2P is already good as it is, and none of my suggestions would make it worse.

Mounts with Slow Fall - everybody has access to.

Consumable item made with crew skills - everybody has access too.

7 minutes ago, Rohndogg said:

Just drop the added sassy disrespectful jab at the end and this can be a respectful conversation.

It was a response. Pay attention pls. You've started it, own it.

8 minutes ago, Rohndogg said:

But I'll leave it up to you to have the day you deserve.

Being full of yourself doesn't do you any favors.

[Rohndogg]

2 minutes ago, Dareel said:

Yes, I know.

Not in this message. In my first reply to you. Please, pay attention. I don't pretend.

F2P doesn't pay for the game, it's only adds to costs. It's safe to say that at least majority of us wants for the game to continue and have more content. It's a business, it needs to make money. F2P is already good as it is, and none of my suggestions would make it worse.

Mounts with Slow Fall - everybody has access to.

Consumable item made with crew skills - everybody has access too.

It was a response. Pay attention pls. You've started it, own it.

Being full of yourself doesn't do you any favors.

Pot, kettle. I'm gonna do the smart thing for both of us and throw you on ignore now. I don't play games with people who try to twist things when they get called on their statements. There's enough examples of polite conversation with other posters. Yet you still wanna somehow say I started it by calling you out for your attitude.

So yeah, have the day you deserve. I won't see you again.

[Dareel]

15 minutes ago, Rohndogg said:

Pot, kettle. I'm gonna do the smart thing for both of us and throw you on ignore now. I don't play games with people who try to twist things when they get called on their statements. There's enough examples of polite conversation with other posters. Yet you still wanna somehow say I started it by calling you out for your attitude.

So yeah, have the day you deserve. I won't see you again.

I made a suggestion.

You accused it being pay to win.

You got a polite, respectful and reasonable replay of how it's not pay to win and why.

You then dismissed it, by accusing me of something I didn't do, simply because of your own ignorance.

You've got an appropriate response.

Then decided to call me out, and now instead of owning anything - you keep twisting, while accusing me of doing it.

I don't know if it's a lack of attention, or projection of your own whatever. Doesn't matter. You should have stopped at "Have a day"

 

Points made still stand:

Mounts with Slow Fall - everybody has access to, somewhat good solution.

Consumable item made with crew skills - everybody has access too. At this point I think its a better solution.

 

I hope it'll get better for you.

[supertimtaf]

2 hours ago, recalcitrantIre said:

'kill volumes' are calculated differently, there's no variable factor like fall damage, you simply die as a result of intersecting with them

They're calculated differently but the "entity" that kills you is the same regardless (as shown in the death messages), which is what's making me worried. What's killing you in kill volumes most likely is using fall damage to do so. Maybe they have two different "fall damage" sources of damage but judging from this game's track record, I would dare say that they have not.