SentinalMasterWW Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Look i enjoy tanking, and healing. But pocket tanks and healers in PVP need to be put out. Its a massive pain to kill someone when that person has 24/7 Guard and heals. Its even more broken when a tank can throw guard on a healer and that healer basically has god mode same for the tank. It ruins the flow of PVP, and has to be changed. The simplest idea I had was that in PVP they should increase the amount of DMG that guard sends back to the tank. For healers, put a system in place that makes it so whenever you heal yourself you heal for less compared to when you heal for others. I've had multiple matches where half of my teams DPS unload on the tank and healer, yet they are constantly able to heal back up to full constantly. It's even more of a pain when its Merc pocket healer because than you have to go through guard and than multiple layers of merc defensives. Regardless, they need to rework this pocket tank/healer syndrome this is massively apparent in PVP. IF this was 6.0 we could easily control the healer and tank with things like CC's etc, But now with pruning removing most of the skill based PVP in the game, it literally just becomes try and out DPS a healer through guard. This is not even bringing up the fact that Jug Skank tank is borderline broken OP, yet the devs do nothing (which tbh is expected at this point) with its DPS output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dftu Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Why on earth would you tunnel a healer through guard and expect that to work unless you're a cleave spec? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinalMasterWW Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 Even 7 minutes ago, dftu said: Why on earth would you tunnel a healer through guard and expect that to work unless you're a cleave spec? Even attacking the tank is pointless due to numerous defensive and the constant 24/7 heal they have via a pocket healer. Tank defensives, combined with their control especially a jug skank tank, make them basically god mode that can basically survive anything with a pocket healer. Attacking other non guarded players is less of a pain, but if that healer is well skilled than basically it becomes your team hitting into a wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinalMasterWW Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 (edited) I wall add this addendum though I have found gunnery and arsenal, do well with chipping through tanks and players with guard especially during supercharged cell windows, But even still it can be a massive pain dealing with either. Edited March 2 by SentinalMasterWW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGatt Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Wouldn't this only be a problem if only one side had a tank and healer? As a Guardian tank, I find it frustrating How little DPS I do sure you can't kill me one-on-one but I can't kill you either. I don't know how PVP matches are assembled in regard to players' Spec But when available At least one tank and one healer should be available on either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dftu Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I still think this sounds like an issue with picking the right target(s). Agreed that specs like Arsenal can deal with tank armor and defensives pretty well, as can cleave specs like Pyro and Leth, but otherwise you're probably going to have to change your strategy up to deal with them. Tanks and healers aren't unbeatable by any means, but how you can best deal with them depends on the tool kit of whatever class you're playing. A PT's carbonize for example can seriously help with securing kills. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samcuu Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Current heal classes in game were never tuned up with the dps buffs from 7.0 so they are actually underperforming. I'll never agree that there needs to be a nerf of classes that are there purely for support. If you want to talk nerfing skank jugg that's a diff discussion that is worthwhile. However, taking away a main component of a trinity style mmo doesn't compute with me. A tank/healer are working in conjuction with one another as a team, if you and another dps for example were queuing together working as a team there's absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to take down a tank/heal combo quite easily, if it can't be done that's a skill issue. Also as someone else stated it's extremely easy to focus other targets, if a tank is worth his salt he'll make it hard on you to kill his teammates by swapping guard. So many ways to deal with it, but one thing you have to remember is if ur solo queued and ur going up against two ppl who are more organized than you as a team, you are going to be at a disadvantage regardless. Don't expect to be superman and destroy a tank healer all by yourself, it honestly shouldn't be possible no matter how skilled you are. You'll need some teamwork to get it done. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crystal_Mind Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Agreed that this seems a bit like a targeting issue. I'll also point out that a lot of dps in queue don't really seem to know how to fight against a healer. I've been solo-queuing a lot of merc heals this week and the number of dps who just tunnel their entire burst window into the reflect is quite sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beyrahl Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) On 3/2/2024 at 1:39 PM, SentinalMasterWW said: Look i enjoy tanking, and healing. But pocket tanks and healers in PVP need to be put out. Its a massive pain to kill someone when that person has 24/7 Guard and heals. Its even more broken when a tank can throw guard on a healer and that healer basically has god mode same for the tank. It ruins the flow of PVP, and has to be changed. Tab target my friend. The main unique thing about this game is that the tank has an actual functional role in PvP. If they're made useless this game becomes even more silly and not worth playing. Tanks provide a different style of play when both teams have it, tunneling into just one person becomes a bad play and requires everyone to use more thought and swap between targets more. Fundamentally, the tank & heal arena is the most competitive form of PvP we still have left and if the roles were made any weaker, this game instantly revolves around just being a good DPS player, playing meta. Boring. Should they be hit a bit harder, maybe, but not sin. On 3/2/2024 at 1:39 PM, SentinalMasterWW said: The simplest idea I had was that in PVP they should increase the amount of DMG that guard sends back to the tank. For healers, put a system in place that makes it so whenever you heal yourself you heal for less compared to when you heal for others. If you do this specs that are already efficient at tank tunneling (which I am not talking about direct tank tunnel but indirect, things like lethality, EC Lightning, and Pyro excel greatly at) become even stronger. It also puts people more into a burst meta because if hit too hard burst will just do too much damage that a tank can't survive the guard damage. Healers aren't up to par and this is a massive issue in this expansion and it's well shown. Adding in another mechanic that further lowers their already low healing input outside of just trauma would be brutal. Almost no point in playing it, everyone just runs 2nd wind and DPS/tank, which would be more effective most of the time. I do understand we play at different levels, but this isn't an issue, put more effort into your gameplay or play something meta and you'll see it firsthand. If any of this were to happen everyone good at DPS would just make people quit at a record rate and overall decrease the enjoyability of the game. Here's a recent example of just a healer dps game, while being target priority #1. A tank would make things winnable for my team, in general, any other front-line contributing would. The issue here isn't that we got out healed, it's that we got outmanned. Even with the damage being down, any relief in my damage taken would turn tides. A perfect example of why you'd ever want a tank to help the front line & punish bad play. Anyway, I don't want to just showcase examples because it's not that complicated. If anything, slap tanks a bit damage or control-wise and move on. Better yet, just buff healing and rework some of the control on tanks. Anything more will just make matters much worse and I would be able to show case and abuse them immediately. As for the rest, forums formatting is fundamentally broken and keeps wiping my response so I won't bother. tl;dr players aren't at the level they should be and should put some moderate effort into their gameplay. Edited March 3 by Beyrahl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahwassa Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/2/2024 at 8:39 PM, SentinalMasterWW said: Regardless, they need to rework this pocket tank/healer syndrome this is massively apparent in PVP. IF this was 6.0 we could easily control the healer and tank with things like CC's etc, But now with pruning removing most of the skill based PVP in the game, it literally just becomes try and out DPS a healer through guard. Maybe skank tank needs nerfs - but tank and healers are in a good spot I think. (If the forum thinks healers deserve a buff - hey I´ll take it :)) All classes still have so many CC´s that you require actually more skill as a healer to stay alive. Have 2 skilled people on you? -> stun locked and dead Maybe try to keybind interrupt on your merc and use it for the right abilities. And work with your team. (Also you can craft stun grenades) Also in 6.0 merc heal was pretty op and oper heal had more defs - so they were actually harder to kill than right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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