Credit Transfer limits to SV

[Dylanof]

So semi victory there will be credit limits on transfers in to the server not a total cart blanche transfer of someone's' wealth to steal the effort of the players who have supported the server and helped build the economy.

 

What do you think that would be a reasonable amount.

 

Lets do some calculations and see if we can come up with a number that would be viable for the economy to handle.

Repair bills while you build wealth in a new economy.

    - 200k per toon or 20 deaths

A little spending money to upgrade gear initially till your toon can start supporting itself with heroic content.

    - 500k enough for a round of upgrades from 324 to 328 

travel cost a nice round amount to be able to move around with ease

    - 100k

incidentals trade fees and GTN Trade fees till the toon is established or new guild starting funds

    -200k

 

That would be 1m injected into the economy per toon and i think two toons per side would be a good starter for free transfers and you would already most likely have a leg up with legacy credit sink.

 

Would love to hear some recommendations from the community keeping in mind reasonable inflationary measures that the dev team can keep in mind.

 

 

 

[frizzydude]

3 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

So semi victory there will be credit limits on transfers in to the server not a total cart blanche transfer of someone's' wealth to steal the effort of the players who have supported the server and helped build the economy.

 

What do you think that would be a reasonable amount.

 

Lets do some calculations and see if we can come up with a number that would be viable for the economy to handle.

Repair bills while you build wealth in a new economy.

    - 200k per toon or 20 deaths

A little spending money to upgrade gear initially till your toon can start supporting itself with heroic content.

    - 500k enough for a round of upgrades from 324 to 328 

travel cost a nice round amount to be able to move around with ease

    - 100k

incidentals trade fees and GTN Trade fees till the toon is established or new guild starting funds

    -200k

 

That would be 1m injected into the economy per toon and i think two toons per side would be a good starter for free transfers and you would already most likely have a leg up with legacy credit sink.

 

Would love to hear some recommendations from the community keeping in mind reasonable inflationary measures that the dev team can keep in mind.

 

 

 

You're assuming a death = 20k. Wrong. In full 344 gear, repair bills are expensive. If you're part of a prog team, 20 deaths might be a reasonable amount of deaths over 2-3hours, 2-3 nights per week. That is not enough. I can go through ~500k repair bills in a night of raids. 

We do not want to be farming heroics hours on end, just to support our progression raiding. 500k for gear upgrades. Not enough. It costs 2.5mil just to get the Hyde and Zeek gear to 340 blue. Then you need to worry about all the rakata gear upgrades on top of that if you actually want the best gear. Then augments. 100k just to install an aug kit. 14 slots requiring augments. 

100k for quick travel. It can cost 5k just to use your ship to go somewhere, then all the quick travelling required on the surface.

Guild upgrades cost millions. 

 

We shouldn't be restricted on bringing over items and credits that we have worked years to generate. But seeing as they have announced restricted credit caps, I personally think we need at minimum 10mil per character.

[Dylanof]

31 minutes ago, frizzydude said:

You're assuming a death = 20k. Wrong. In full 344 gear, repair bills are expensive. If you're part of a prog team, 20 deaths might be a reasonable amount of deaths over 2-3hours, 2-3 nights per week. That is not enough. I can go through ~500k repair bills in a night of raids. 

We do not want to be farming heroics hours on end, just to support our progression raiding. 500k for gear upgrades. Not enough. It costs 2.5mil just to get the Hyde and Zeek gear to 340 blue. Then you need to worry about all the rakata gear upgrades on top of that if you actually want the best gear. Then augments. 100k just to install an aug kit. 14 slots requiring augments. 

100k for quick travel. It can cost 5k just to use your ship to go somewhere, then all the quick travelling required on the surface.

Guild upgrades cost millions. 

 

We shouldn't be restricted on bringing over items and credits that we have worked years to generate. But seeing as they have announced restricted credit caps, I personally think we need at minimum 10mil per character.

See this is the issue.

 

You want to play but not put the effort into sustaining the account. i put up some reasonable numbers but you want instant gear. full level with no grind to build.

a heroic planet each day is enough to sustain an account a second or third planet is enough to build wealth.

 

The numbers i suggested was to start your adventure not fund your entire play through out eternity.  I do thank you for the 10m amount possible to spread across all transfers not individual. I also think you need to consider what is the average amount of credit a player would have on the SV server. Specking for myself i can proudly say i have 4m credits i have some store of value also in the form of commander compendiums and i have leveled each crafting to 700 to fund myself.

[frizzydude]

1 hour ago, Dylanof said:

See this is the issue.

 

You want to play but not put the effort into sustaining the account. i put up some reasonable numbers but you want instant gear. full level with no grind to build.

a heroic planet each day is enough to sustain an account a second or third planet is enough to build wealth.

 

The numbers i suggested was to start your adventure not fund your entire play through out eternity.  I do thank you for the 10m amount possible to spread across all transfers not individual. I also think you need to consider what is the average amount of credit a player would have on the SV server. Specking for myself i can proudly say i have 4m credits i have some store of value also in the form of commander compendiums and i have leveled each crafting to 700 to fund myself.

I've put 10+ years into sustaining my account. What you suggested is not reasonable for end game content. For the conquest casual free-to-play, sure. The average amount of credits on SV shouldn't impact what they cap our transfers on. It should be based on what the community actually needs, and as I said, for end game content, we need millions. Not just a few 100s. Now that the Christmas period is over, people don't have the time to come home from work and grind heroics before they do progression raiding. Some people only have time to raid so restricting their ability to afford repair bills is not in the interest of the end game community. 

I'm all for not allowing people to bring billions - I have ~2 bil myself. I'm happy to leave some of it SS, but I need enough to sustain the content I want to do over on SV, and the amount you suggested is not enough.

[Dylanof]

1 minute ago, frizzydude said:

I've put 10+ years into sustaining my account. What you suggested is not reasonable for end game content. For the conquest casual free-to-play, sure. The average amount of credits on SV shouldn't impact what they cap our transfers on. It should be based on what the community actually needs, and as I said, for end game content, we need millions. Not just a few 100s. Now that the Christmas period is over, people don't have the time to come home from work and grind heroics before they do progression raiding. Some people only have time to raid so restricting their ability to afford repair bills is not in the interest of the end game community. 

I'm all for not allowing people to bring billions - I have ~2 bil myself. I'm happy to leave some of it SS, but I need enough to sustain the content I want to do over on SV, and the amount you suggested is not enough.

So then we should open a discussion into repair bills and repairs from end game content ?

Other MMOs such As GW2 have removed gear damage and moved to a pickup buff could something like that work here and help the economy by not needing to flood the server to promote end game content ?

[frizzydude]

2 minutes ago, Dylanof said:

So then we should open a discussion into repair bills and repairs from end game content ?

Other MMOs such As GW2 have removed gear damage and moved to a pickup buff could something like that work here and help the economy by not needing to flood the server to promote end game content ?

I agree with that. IF they cap credits at a low amount to keep "inflation" under wraps, they need to do something about ALL credit sinks in game. Remove/reduce: Repair bills, quick travel costs, trade costs, GTN tax etc. 

[LEEscoundral]

I mean why not open up unlimited credits..? Anyone can make credits on existing servers by crafting ect.. Its fine there/ everywhere else n just messed up on SV with the sinks at the moment.. Open it up....

[frizzydude]

4 minutes ago, LEEscoundral said:

I mean why not open up unlimited credits..? Anyone can make credits on existing servers by crafting ect.. Its fine there/ everywhere else n just messed up on SV with the sinks at the moment.. Open it up....

Yeah I agree - open up full, unrestricted transfers.

[FrontLineFodder]

yep, no restrictions.

I don't care if one player has 99 characters maxed out with 4B each.

I will say the GTN Items should be returned once transfers are opened, ensuring players don't get the opportunity to "buy out" the GTN.

If GTN prices rise, then materials from playing (Crafted items, Crafting ingredients, whatever) will all go up in price to account for it.

The only players I see being affected by higher prices are the FTP players, and frankly I could not give a damn about them.

 

saying that, my sub runs out in a month and I will not be renewing (well maybe 1 more month if it takes BS that long to allow transfers).

but given the way this whole server launch has played out, once my main characters are over I'm done.

[frizzydude]

25 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

yep, no restrictions.

I don't care if one player has 99 characters maxed out with 4B each.

I will say the GTN Items should be returned once transfers are opened, ensuring players don't get the opportunity to "buy out" the GTN.

If GTN prices rise, then materials from playing (Crafted items, Crafting ingredients, whatever) will all go up in price to account for it.

The only players I see being affected by higher prices are the FTP players, and frankly I could not give a damn about them.

 

saying that, my sub runs out in a month and I will not be renewing (well maybe 1 more month if it takes BS that long to allow transfers).

but given the way this whole server launch has played out, once my main characters are over I'm done.

Yeah I agree with all of that! 

I personally think they need to remove F2P and preferred. They should allow F2P up until level ~20 (first 2 planets) and then force to sub. Subscription isn't expensive.

[DeannaVoyager]

There are bots and credit sellers on Shae Vizla. Not allowing transfers only benefits the credit sellers and it drives legitimate players to quit or return to other servers. 

Having people to start over wouldn't be that much of a problem if they could make credits fast by selling CM items in GTN like on any other server. But because no-one has credits on SV, doesn't matter what you try to sell, you won't be getting enough credits to cover all the expenses. 

I wouldn't dismiss F2P and preferred players though. If they are being forced to quit or sub at level 20, they will quit. Have you leveled up a new character lately? Because you've got barely any skills before level 20 and trying to fight anything with those abilities and without force management is not exactly fun. If they quit before they even get to taste the game, we're gonna lose a bunch of potential endgamers. Saying subscription not being expensive is very subjective. It gets expensive when you pay year after year after year and get very little in return. With the amount of content we are getting, they should take at least 50% off of the subscription. 

[FrontLineFodder]

I'm not dismissing them, FTP does serve an important role on the servers, for example filling groups. I certainly wouldn't limit their level character growth, just stick with activity quotas.

but if it's a concern that having high prices prevents them from buying things. I will not shed a tear if a FTP player cannot buy an item off the GTN because the FTP credit limit stops them.

Items from in game vendors are all achievable with the credit limit. some strongholds cannot be purchased / unlocked, then subscribe for a month and unlock them. if you really want them, but as FTP you do not need them.

Personally I don't have an issue if the trade prices exceed what FTP can pay (and quietly I prefer it that way).

[AFadedMemory]

3 hours ago, frizzydude said:

I've put 10+ years into sustaining my account. What you suggested is not reasonable for end game content.

Then you shouldn’t have to make new gear. 

if I’m not mistaken quick travel is impacted by current amount of credit in hand. 

Not sure about space travel but I would imagine that destination is the main factor in its calculation. number of credit  might impact it to some degree. (If you use heroic transportation you can bypass this for some planets… probably not supposed to use them that way though🤣)

you’re not required to transfer.

credits can still be used on source server or converted, by player, into things that do transfer.

truthfully I think 10 million is a good limit, though I’m not opposed to a lower one.

Edited January 20 by AFadedMemory

[AFadedMemory]

2 hours ago, LEEscoundral said:

I mean why not open up unlimited credits..? Anyone can make credits on existing servers by crafting ect.. Its fine there/ everywhere else n just messed up on SV with the sinks at the moment.. Open it up....

Why transfer? You can use everything you have where you currently are.

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, frizzydude said:

Yeah I agree with all of that! 

I personally think they need to remove F2P and preferred. They should allow F2P up until level ~20 (first 2 planets) and then force to sub. Subscription isn't expensive.

🫠 do you know why they implemented them in the first place? 
 

They were hemorrhaging subs.

[AFadedMemory]

32 minutes ago, DeannaVoyager said:

There are bots and credit sellers on Shae Vizla. Not allowing transfers only benefits the credit sellers and it drives legitimate players to quit or return to other servers. 

100,000,000 million credits for $4 or 1,000,000 for $17 which would you rather buy? Opening transfer would most likely increase sells more then not opening them.

I believe legitimate players have been playing on SV this entire time. It’s probably why transfers are being allowed in the first place.

[AFadedMemory]

23 minutes ago, FrontLineFodder said:

but if it's a concern that having high prices prevents them from buying things.

High prices prevents everyone from buying things. The most impacted are new, returning, and F2P players. The peeps we kinda need for the game to stay alive. (Unless they are just keeping the game for the MMO rights)

Edited January 20 by AFadedMemory

[LEEscoundral]

 Ftp players are irrelevant at this point. They cant do ops to keep endgame alive.

For me the problem is really the extremely expensive repairs and no credit rewards for doing ops..

Why transfur??

We (in apac) have been dealing with very bad ping for a long time.

Now we get the issue of having to grind heroics to pay for repairs.. Which no one i know likes doing or wants to do.. and frankly makes playing on SV freaking annoying..

[FrontLineFodder]

1 minute ago, AFadedMemory said:

High prices prevents everyone from buying things. The most impacted are new, returning, and F2P players. The peeps we kinda need for the game to stay alive.

the prices are as high as the players can sustain them. Traders are not buying them for themselves, players are the ones buying them, on ALL of the servers.

prices for things like Embers, SRM's, crafting materials all go unto a point for players to buy these items. it's not like these sellers are thinking players on SF are doing a thousand heroics just to buy a single augment.

again, these are for Traded items only, nothing actually needed for playing the game.

What part of the game are new or returning SUBSCRIBERS unable to complete because of the high prices for traded items ?

new or returning FTP players are not keeping the game alive by being able to participate in buying items from the trade network.

[frizzydude]

1 hour ago, DeannaVoyager said:

There are bots and credit sellers on Shae Vizla. Not allowing transfers only benefits the credit sellers and it drives legitimate players to quit or return to other servers. 

Having people to start over wouldn't be that much of a problem if they could make credits fast by selling CM items in GTN like on any other server. But because no-one has credits on SV, doesn't matter what you try to sell, you won't be getting enough credits to cover all the expenses. 

I wouldn't dismiss F2P and preferred players though. If they are being forced to quit or sub at level 20, they will quit. Have you leveled up a new character lately? Because you've got barely any skills before level 20 and trying to fight anything with those abilities and without force management is not exactly fun. If they quit before they even get to taste the game, we're gonna lose a bunch of potential endgamers. Saying subscription not being expensive is very subjective. It gets expensive when you pay year after year after year and get very little in return. With the amount of content we are getting, they should take at least 50% off of the subscription. 

I don't disagree - Although I have levelled 10 toons on SV since launch so I certainly understand not having abilities at low levels. 

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, LEEscoundral said:

Ftp players are irrelevant at this point. They cant do ops to keep endgame alive.

Are operation the only thing required to keep the game alive though?

I’ve been playing since 2015 (have an old account that I don’t really use anymore) I completed my first operation during December2023/January2024  based on my experience operation are not the main driving force behind people playing this game.

1 hour ago, LEEscoundral said:

For me the problem is really the extremely expensive repairs and no credit rewards for doing ops..

I admit that operation players appear to be more impacted then most players when it comes to repair. I however think keeping the sinks is important for maintaining a low economy. I have made suggestions in the suggestion section on how to fix this issue without weakening sinks or generating more credits.

1 hour ago, LEEscoundral said:

Why transfur??

We (in apac) have been dealing with very bad ping for a long time.

Now we get the issue of having to grind heroics to pay for repairs.. Which no one i know likes doing or wants to do.. and frankly makes playing on SV freaking annoying..

New, Returning , F2P would have to grind thousands of heroic(or break the TOS) just to catch up to the amount average players have on other severs. Unfortunately the average number of credits currently impacts the prices on the GTN to a great degree. 

Edited January 20 by AFadedMemory

[FrontLineFodder]

36 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

New, Returning , F2P would have to grid thousands of heroic(or break the TOS) just to catch up to the amount average players have on other severs. Unfortunately the average number of credits currently impacts the prices on the GTN to a great degree. 

You have this anywhere you have long term established players, New players will not ever "catch up" to an average long term player.

but they don't need to, playing the game they will get to max level gear, you don't need to buy anything off the GTN to upgrade your gear (in fact, apart from augments, you cannot).

getting augments is grind-able in two ways

1. by selling OEM's to raise funds
2. learning the crafting skill gathering the materials, deconstructing the crafted items until you can craft the augments yourself.
   • I did this, it is criminal the way RNG affects learning the new schematics, I literally spent billions on materials to do this for the high level crafting items.

If you are buying augments off the GTN, It is the same effort

• On SF Augments are 2-300M each, OEM's are selling for approx 30M each
• On SV Augments are 3.6M, OEMs are 350K (and rising) each

 

If you want to bring a balanced field to established players and new players (which by the way you post it sounds to me like you do) then:

There is an established way to do this in modern games, server wipes. FPS / survival servers have regular wipes erasing all effort players have done regularly. Go ahead and create s suggestion post to do that, I DARE YOU!.

Edited January 20 by FrontLineFodder
OEM stated wrong price

[AFadedMemory]

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

the prices are as high as the players can sustain them. Traders are not buying them for themselves, players are the ones buying them, on ALL of the servers.

If you think prices are not impacted by the amount of currency in a system you might want to study economics. It takes the same amount of time to gather the material needed to craft something, generally speaking, on every server. Does it cost the same amount to buy those materials on every server? Has the price remained the same over an extended period of time? If it changed was it in the up order downward direction? Does it cost more credit to craft items now than it did in the past?

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

 it's not like these sellers are thinking players on SF are doing a thousand heroics just to buy a single augment

This is one of the many reasons prices are higher then they need to be.

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

again, these are for Traded items only, nothing actually needed for playing the game.

I image most players buy some components for end game gear from the GTN. It is harder to purchase with inflation then it would be without it (granted one can argue end game gear/content is optional ha ha ha. But that can literally be applied to everything in the game) you also don’t need million of credit to play this game. It just makes it a hell of a lot easier to do.

1 hour ago, FrontLineFodder said:

What part of the game are new or returning SUBSCRIBERS unable to complete because of the high prices for traded items ?

Buying cartel market items or other items on the GTN that are impacted by high inflation. (Granted they could with some time, but I imagine you’re complaining because you don’t want to spent the time required to get that amount of money on a limited credit server. Fortunately for you if you stay on your current server you won’t have to.)

Edited January 20 by AFadedMemory

[Dylanof]

4 minutes ago, AFadedMemory said:

If you think prices are not impacted by the amount of currency in a system you might want to study economics. It takes the same amount of time to gather the material needed to craft something, generally speaking, on every server. Does it cost the same amount to buy those materials on every server? Has the price remained the same over an extended period of time? If it changed was it in the up order downward direction? Does it cost more credit to craft items now than it did in the past?

This is one of the many reasons prices are higher then they need to be.

I image most players buy some components for end game gear from the GTN. It is harder to purchase with inflation then it would be without it (granted one can argue end game gear/content is optional ha ha ha. But that can literally be applied to everything in the game) you also don’t need million of credit to play this game. It just makes it a hell of a lot easier to do.

Buying cartel market items or other items that are impacted by high inflation. (Granted they could with some time, but I imagine you’re complaining because you don’t want to spent the time required to get that amount of money on a limited credit server. Fortunately for you if you stay on your current server you won’t have to.)

This is why i broke down the figures in the original post for what a toon may need for its first week. Giving you enough to start running content and begin setting up your adventure for the future.

A limited credit economy that has been favoring effort while your transferred toon was setup to produce for itself. If to much is injected it will no longer be an effort based server and we will have brought another servers issue here. 

 

[DeannaVoyager]

1 hour ago, AFadedMemory said:

100,000,000 million credits for $4 or 1,000,000 for $17 which would you rather buy? Opening transfer would most likely increase sells more then not opening them.

I believe legitimate players have been playing on SV this entire time. It’s probably why transfers are being allowed in the first place.

I don't buy credits at any price, so wrong target. 
However people who have plenty of real money to spend will buy at any price if they want the credits. Only the credit sellers will benefit from this situation. People who don't want to buy from credit sellers are the ones losing. 

 

1 hour ago, LEEscoundral said:

 Ftp players are irrelevant at this point. They cant do ops to keep endgame alive.

 

Ftp players can't do ops, but they will never even be potentional subscribers if they quit at level 20. 

 

1 hour ago, LEEscoundral said:

For me the problem is really the extremely expensive repairs and no credit rewards for doing ops..

Why transfur??

We (in apac) have been dealing with very bad ping for a long time.

Now we get the issue of having to grind heroics to pay for repairs.. Which no one i know likes doing or wants to do.. and frankly makes playing on SV freaking annoying..

 

100% agreed. Heroics (or any other grind to earn credits) shouldn't be a mandatory activity to be able to play ops. It's a great way to get rid of the playerbase though, especially the subscribers who sub to play ops.

When I started to play on other servers than my main, I only did one transfer and that  was because I didn't want to grind the gear again and I needed the gear for raiding. Everything else I started fresh with zero credits. I got credits by gathering mats, selling them and selling CM and other items. However to get credits from OEM and RPM (the current thing to do for creds), there needs to be credits on the server and people who are willing to buy those mats with a decent price. 

Decent price = enough to cover the expenses for earning the items you want to sell + some extra on top of it.

Personally I am getting tired with SV because I can't buy character perks and I can't unlock strongholds to get the the SH bonus. I can't sell anything because no-one has credits to buy, which is completely different than on any other server as a new player. The credit sinks are too much for an economy without credits, it's not sustainable. Either let players transfer their own credits to a server they need it on, or remove all credit sinks from the server (including repair bills, character perk costs, strongholds prices).