7.3 Credit Economy Initiative: Updates and the GTN

[DWho]

46 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

The reason is the game generated too many credits from normal game play

Sorry Trixie but this just isn't true. I have played the game many times through and never ended up at max level with more than a couple million credits (a far cry from the billions you needed to buy a lot of items even a few months ago). The problem was farming specific content not overall rewards (Dailies, just certain ones and not all of them, being the biggest source of repeating, especially with Stealth characters). The rewards from Conquest did add up to a lot but this is also only farming specific content. Running the same flashpoint/heroic/daily dozens of time a day is not normal gameplay. Besides, they removed most of those rewards over the years and it had no impact on inflation (heroic rewards were slashed, conquest rewards were slashed, selling of dropped gear was slashed and still GTN prices went up.)

[Spikanor]

12 minutes ago, DWho said:

Running the same flashpoint/heroic/daily dozens of time a day is not normal gameplay.

not forget that all the flashpoints/heroic's/ daily's and bonus missions there also got the credit boost at that time also.

you can still look up on youtube i think still how to make fast credits in no time from that time and there was also no GTN at all.

only flashpoints and heroic's you get as tip more.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Spikanor

[TrixxieTriss]

9 minutes ago, DWho said:

Sorry Trixie but this just isn't true. I have played the game many times through and never ended up at max level with more than a couple million credits (a far cry from the billions you needed to buy a lot of items even a few months ago). The problem was farming specific content not overall rewards (Dailies, just certain ones and not all of them, being the biggest source of repeating, especially with Stealth characters). The rewards from Conquest did add up to a lot but this is also only farming specific content. Running the same flashpoint/heroic/daily dozens of time a day is not normal gameplay. Besides, they removed most of those rewards over the years and it had no impact on inflation (heroic rewards were slashed, conquest rewards were slashed, selling of dropped gear was slashed and still GTN prices went up.)

Other Players, as well as myself have actually done the maths & provided actual numbers from testing & we’ve shown that the game was generating too many credits through normal game play rewards & sale of dropped items. Even the devs admitted this was the case, which is why they removed or dialled back the rewards. So I’m not sure how I’m wrong 🤷🏻‍♀️

[DWho]

52 minutes ago, Starknaga said:

By raising taxes and making newbie's life more difficult you create demand to buy more credits

The taxes have almost no impact on newbies. The stuff they can afford to buy with the credits they earn while leveling is at most an 8% GTN tax, assuming they can't just gather/craft them for themselves (gathering/crafting is what everyone currently selling those items on the GTN did). Travel costs and repair costs are a different story and those do impact "newbies" disproportionately.

If you want to argue for newbies you should be arguing about the stuff that has a greater impact. No newbie needs a CM item that costs 10 billion credits (in fact almost all those items are reskins of something already in the game that cost much less - you're paying for the name attached to it) and if they really want it that bad, they can buy it from the Cartel Market (If there is something that should be returned to the CM there is a whole section of the forums for requesting that)

I play the game every day and am impacted by the trade taxes not at all.

[DWho]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Other Players, as well as myself have actually done the maths & provided actual numbers from testing & we’ve shown that the game was generating too many credits through normal game play rewards & sale of dropped items. Even the devs admitted this was the case, which is why they removed or dialled back the rewards. So I’m not sure how I’m wrong 🤷🏻‍♀️

You are wrong because you are defining farming content as normal play. The dialing back of the rewards had no impact which was why they had to go to the taxes. And the taxes have had the desired impact of cooling the game economy.

Edited August 27, 2023 by DWho

[Spikanor]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Other Players, as well as myself have actually done the maths & provided actual numbers from testing & we’ve shown that the game was generating too many credits through normal game play rewards & sale of dropped items. Even the devs admitted this was the case, which is why they removed or dialled back the rewards. So I’m not sure how I’m wrong 🤷🏻‍♀️

then please explane this then since in this guide how to make credits fast in 7.0 .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0moUW06RTRA

any maths you have done is pointless more now.

[TrixxieTriss]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

The taxes have almost no impact on newbies

That’s not entirely true. Have you tested that on a new legacy with no credits? It is pretty harsh for newbies. I say new legacy because it’s not the same as testing it on a new character with an established legacy that has stuff opened.

I did actually test it on a new server to find out & it’s pretty restrictive even for someone who knows the game well & the most efficient ways to travel around. Imagine being new and making travel mistakes (which happen) because you’re not sure where to go. 

[TrixxieTriss]

12 minutes ago, DWho said:

You are wrong because you are defining farming content as normal play. The dialing back of the rewards had no impact which was why they had to go to the taxes. And the taxes have had the desired impact of cooling the game economy.

Sadly that is normal game for most people doing conquest or galactic seasons. Because that’s how BW designed end game content 😞

So wether you agree with the terminology of normal game okay or not. A large majority of players were farming content to either get gear or do conquest or galactic seasons. And that’s where all the extra credits were generated after 5.0

They had to move to the taxes because they let it go for way too long & the game is flooded with excess credits. I personally raised the alarm about hyperinflation 3+ years ago & BW ignored it. So we had 3 years of over generated credits being created & hoarded in the game. That’s what created the hyperinflation & why the most expensive items went from 100 mill to over 4 billion in less than 2 years.

Edited August 27, 2023 by TrixxieTriss

[DWho]

2 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

then please explane this then since in this guide how to make credits fast in 7.0 .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0moUW06RTRA

any maths you have done is pointless more now.

Step 1: Get a character to level 80 (in the vid she even says its not worth trying to accumulate credits before then)

Step 2: Gear that character (completing content efficiently requires good gear which you have to earn at some point)

Step 3: Get tech fragments (Heroics and flashpoints generate a pathetic number of tech fragments - even less than deconstructing the gear drops)

Step 4: Sell stuff on the GTN (this is and always has been the best way to acquire credits because all the credits don't have to be earned by the same player). Players with a few million each from playing the game buy low level stuff from a player who converts those credits into higher value stuff. Rinse and repeat)

[Spikanor]

5 minutes ago, DWho said:

Step 1: Get a character to level 80 (in the vid she even says its not worth trying to accumulate credits before then)

Step 2: Gear that character (completing content efficiently requires good gear which you have to earn at some point)

Step 3: Get tech fragments (Heroics and flashpoints generate a pathetic number of tech fragments - even less than deconstructing the gear drops)

Step 4: Sell stuff on the GTN (this is and always has been the best way to acquire credits because all the credits don't have to be earned by the same player). Players with a few million each from playing the game buy low level stuff from a player who converts those credits into higher value stuff. Rinse and repeat)

but the guide shows all 2 mistake's the devs have make.

add legendary ember in the spoils of war and the RPM-13/OEM-37 in the spoils of war.

so people farm like crazy for tech fragments to buy the 3 items and sell then for 100kk+ on the GTN thats the devs own fault again to add then in a vendor.

Edited August 27, 2023 by Spikanor

[TrixxieTriss]

10 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

then please explane this then since in this guide how to make credits fast in 7.0 .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0moUW06RTRA

any maths you have done is pointless more now.

I’m not going to watch it. It’s a how to guide & I already know the most efficient ways of making credits. 

Over generated credits and hyperinflation were already rampant well before 7.0 was released. In actual fact, more credits were generated during the 6.x era than any other in the history of the game. 7.x has actually seen a decrease in credit generation compared to 6.x. 

[DWho]

6 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

That’s not entirely true. Have you tested that on a new legacy with no credits? It is pretty harsh for newbies. I say new legacy because it’s not the same as testing it on a new character with an established legacy that has stuff opened.

I did actually test it on a new server to find out & it’s pretty restrictive even for someone who knows the game well & the most efficient ways to travel around. Imagine being new and making travel mistakes (which happen) because you’re not sure where to go. 

What exactly are you buying as a newbie that the taxes (not the travel and repair fees) are significant? The restricted number of credits you earn from the missions is what causes problems unlocking things (there are no taxes on those). The travel fees were a different argument and simply removing them from the starter and capitol planets would fix the issue for just about everyone and yet have insignificant impact in the number of credits removed from the game.

 

5 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Sadly that is normal game for most people doing conquest or galactic seasons. Because that’s how BW designed end game content 😞

This I actual agree with. I would add that putting gearing behind a huge grind also led to people running content over and over and even with the reduced credits it added up. Someone not participating in the gear grind finds themselves pretty poor as the class and planetary missions and even heroics don't reward that well relative to the cost of things on the GTN. I've more than tripled my credit totals just from selling low end crafted cosmetic items (stuff selling for 25K or less)  just since 7.0 (that's effectively more credits than I earned "playing the game" in 10 years)

[Spikanor]

Just now, TrixxieTriss said:

I’m not going to watch it. It’s a how to guide & I already know the most efficient ways of making credits. 

Over generated credits and hyperinflation were already rampant well before 7.0 was released. In actual fact, more credits were generated during the 6.x era than any other in the history of the game. 7.x has actually seen a decrease in credit generation compared to 6.x. 

thats a guide for 7.0.

but there are a lot of older guide's on youtube also from older expensions how to make super fast credits with the expensions you got there.

the point is more that you can do any maths you wane do but there are super easy guide's that show each time how to make faster a lot off mill's in less time.

and that are now not the things we need now that players find way's how to make super fast in less time few mills credits.

[TrixxieTriss]

2 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

but the guide shows all 2 mistake's the devs have make.

add legendary ember in the spoils of war and the RPM-13/OEM-37 in the spoils of war.

so people farm like crazy for tech fragments to buy the 3 items and sell then for 100kk+ on the GTN thats the devs own fault again to add then in a vendor.

But they aren’t generating the credits or causing the inflation. 

When you sell something on the GTN, all you are doing is moving credits that already exist in the game from one person to another. 

If there weren’t already so many excess credits in the game, the prices of those mats would be considerably less because no one would have those large amounts of credits to buy them. 

The new taxes & closing the GTN tax avoidance loophole with player to player trades is BW’s attempt at removing some of those excess credits. Which should actually slow inflation & over time, cause deflation. 

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, DWho said:

What exactly are you buying as a newbie that the taxes (not the travel and repair fees) are significant?

Travel, gear repairs & leveling up your companions. Remember the higher your companions, the better they perform. 

You’d be surprised how quickly you go through any credits you acquire. 

If you don’t believe me, test it out on a server you don’t currently have any characters on. Or if you want the real “new” player experience, create a new F2P account & you’ll really see how it turns off new players trying out the game. 

[TrixxieTriss]

5 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

thats a guide for 7.0.

but there are a lot of older guide's on youtube also from older expensions how to make super fast credits with the expensions you got there.

the point is more that you can do any maths you wane do but there are super easy guide's that show each time how to make faster a lot off mill's in less time.

and that are now not the things we need now that players find way's how to make super fast in less time few mills credits.

I don’t understand the point your trying to argue. I know English isn’t your first language, so I don’t know if you’ve missed something from translating my points. 
 

We agree that credits can be easily made through normal game play (not using the GTN or buying credits).

My point is the reason we had “hyperinflation” is from 5.0 on wards, the game generated way too many credits. That was especially true during the 6.x period. 

BioWare ignore the alarm bells that myself and others were raising here on the forums 3+ years ago. So normal inflation turned to hyperinflation. Which is why the most expensive items are now higher than 4 billion credits. 

[DWho]

9 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Travel, gear repairs & leveling up your companions. Remember the higher your companions, the better they perform. 

You’d be surprised how quickly you go through any credits you acquire.

Well, if we are going to shift the discussion to fees instead of taxes (whether GTN or Trade taxes) then I agree with you at least for the first couple planets. Once again, the issue is that you are not earning enough credits in the missions to pay for travel and repairs (which is a little at odds with your assertion that the game is rewarding too many credits)

 

9 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

If you don’t believe me, test it out on a server you don’t currently have any characters on. Or if you want the real “new” player experience, create a new F2P account & you’ll really see how it turns off new players trying out the game. 

This was exactly the point I made in several posts about travel fees only to be told that players can easily make enough credits to afford the fees. I disagreed with that assessment then and still do. The low level planet experience is what brings players into the game. If you make a few high level characters cross about taxes it has less impact than a bad initial impression. Those players with billions aren't going to just up and quit, they went through the trouble of gaining their billions and won't give them up that easily (unless of course the can sell them for real world money)

Edited August 27, 2023 by DWho
changed are to aren't as it was a typo

[Spikanor]

2 minutes ago, TrixxieTriss said:

I don’t understand the point your trying to argue. I know English isn’t your first language, so I don’t know if you’ve missed something from translating my points. 
 

We agree that credits can be easily made through normal game play (not using the GTN or buying credits).

My point is the reason we had “hyperinflation” is from 5.0 on wards, the game generated way too many credits. That was especially true during the 6.x period. 

BioWare ignore the alarm bells that myself and others were raising here on the forums 3+ years ago. So normal inflation turned to hyperinflation. Which is why the most expensive items are now higher than 4 billion credits. 

tell me something news that bioware ignore the alarm bells since have there ever care about that.

in this guide by the same youtuber is how crazy the 6.0 version was with making credits fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu4NNyBas9M&list=PLodZ-fKteuoyRioSQ3H9bVs-kcyfg0w6l&index=74

and that is also what DWho means a few post's back

[DWho]

Just now, Spikanor said:

tell me something news that bioware ignore the alarm bells since have there ever care about that.

One of the reasons they ignored it was that it actually drove CM sales but that was something that was going to be unsustainable. They reached a point where the CM sales weren't covering for the loss of subscribers and finally had to break down and do something.

[Spikanor]

1 minute ago, DWho said:

One of the reasons they ignored it was that it actually drove CM sales but that was something that was going to be unsustainable. They reached a point where the CM sales weren't covering for the loss of subscribers and finally had to break down and do something.

thats the same reason there remove most of the credit sinks from the game also since there wane keep the focus on the cartal market and cartal coins and give no damm about the credits at all so players only save and save up the credits since there was almost notting to spent on since the focus from then was on the cartal coins only.

and thats why you can blame the devs for this problem since some of then have inplant it in the game without thinking good about it at all and there need to fix there own mistake now.

[TrixxieTriss]

Just now, DWho said:

Well, if we are going to shift the discussion to fees instead of taxes (whether GTN or Trade taxes) then I agree with you at least for the first couple planets. Once again, the issue is that you are not earning enough credits in the missions to pay for travel and repairs (which is a little at odds with your assertion that the game is rewarding too many credits)

I understand where the misunderstanding is now.

Im not asserting the game is “currently” generating too many credits. I’m saying it “was” generating too many credits “before” 7.0 & even up to 7.2. 

The hyperinflation problem wasn’t created in 7.0, it started way back in 5.x and got worse in 6.x. BioWare let the problem fester for 3+ years. And then didn’t know how to address it properly because most of the devs don’t play the game or understand it’s economy. 

They tried to do something in 6.x by adding amplifier gambling mechanics. But most players hate gambling mechanics that have poor odds & little rewards & some of us worked out how to avoid it 😉. When they decided to remove it & not add another credit sink, it actually accelerated the inflation more 🤦‍♀️

 

[TrixxieTriss]

7 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

tell me something news that bioware ignore the alarm bells since have there ever care about that.

in this guide by the same youtuber is how crazy the 6.0 version was with making credits fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu4NNyBas9M&list=PLodZ-fKteuoyRioSQ3H9bVs-kcyfg0w6l&index=74

and that is also what DWho means a few post's back

Like I said, I agree that credits were made to easily in 6.x. I don’t know why your arguing 😂

[TrixxieTriss]

2 minutes ago, Spikanor said:

thats the same reason there remove most of the credit sinks from the game also since there wane keep the focus on the cartal market and cartal coins and give no damm about the credits at all so players only save and save up the credits since there was almost notting to spent on since the focus from then was on the cartal coins only.

and thats why you can blame the devs for this problem since some of then have inplant it in the game without thinking good about it at all and there need to fix there own mistake now.

I don’t think that’s the case. You give them too much credit thinking they were trying to manipulate the credit - CM. 

The simplest reason is they just didn’t care or understand enough to listen to player feedback as to what was happening. 

[TrixxieTriss]

9 minutes ago, DWho said:

One of the reasons they ignored it was that it actually drove CM sales but that was something that was going to be unsustainable. They reached a point where the CM sales weren't covering for the loss of subscribers and finally had to break down and do something.

If they really did do it for that reason, then their easiest fix would have been to just raise the GTN sales cap to 100 billion & character credit cap to something similar. They wouldn’t have bothered with trying to create new credit sinks or closing the GTN tax avoidance loophole with trades. 

[Spikanor]

Just now, TrixxieTriss said:

I don’t think that’s the case. You give them too much credit thinking they were trying to manipulate the credit - CM. 

The simplest reason is they just didn’t care or understand enough to listen to player feedback as to what was happening.

there have manipulate with the credit rewards.

remember good back then when the devs have remove a lot of side missions from the game and increase the exp rewards from the other missions a lot and also increase the credit rewards from the other missions and add credit rewards to all the conquest missions and bonus missions.

and not forget the lootboxen you can get from the crew skill missions that also give you a lot of credits back then.

all that has creat this problem there cant fix anymore since there have mess up big time and its so big now that there cant fix it anymore.