Premades Are Destroying The Queue Again As Per Usual

[TrixxieTriss]

34 minutes ago, Prapcaster said:

I wouldn't have worded it how he did but he's not completely wrong. Both sides have a large sense of entitlement to a certain degree. This is an mmo and before 8 mans were even a thing there were people mad that the other tema grouped up with friends. Get rid of 8 man premades for sure but remove being able to play with friends in a casual pvp enviroment and you may as well just throw money at WoW.

Sure, but it’s the toxic attitude that I was referring to that is also contributing to people being put off by PvP.

This community really likes to shoot itself in the foot when it comes to welcoming new players. It comes across if you don’t fit “x” stereotype, then we don’t want you in the PvP game. And if you try anyway, we’re going to make it so unenjoyable that you leave. 

And Bioware have only made it worse because they traded one toxic environment for another instead of trying to address the reasons for the toxicity in the first place. 

There are legitimate arguments for solo & premades. The fact that it’s now a wedge creating more in game toxicity & not just forum toxicity is concerning. 

BioWare are ignoring the topic & just letting it fester more instead of addressing the topic with the player base. This is poor community management & will continue to create toxicity in the community, both here & in the game. 

If BioWare really cared about the PvP toxicity problem that they used as an excuse to get rid of ranked, they’d do some community management on this premade issue before the toxicity gets out of control.

First step is BioWare start communicating about it instead of ignoring it & hoping it will go away. Because that’s not going to happen & it will keep festering & just drive people from the game if they ignore player concerns. 

[Shwarzchild]

9 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Sure, but it’s the toxic attitude that I was referring to that is also contributing to people being put off by PvP.

This community really likes to shoot itself in the foot when it comes to welcoming new players. It comes across if you don’t fit “x” stereotype, then we don’t want you in the PvP game. And if you try anyway, we’re going to make it so unenjoyable that you leave. 

And Bioware have only made it worse because they traded one toxic environment for another instead of trying to address the reasons for the toxicity in the first place. 

There are legitimate arguments for solo & premades. The fact that it’s now a wedge creating more in game toxicity & not just forum toxicity is concerning. 

BioWare are ignoring the topic & just letting it fester more instead of addressing the topic with the player base. This is poor community management & will continue to create toxicity in the community, both here & in the game. 

If BioWare really cared about the PvP toxicity problem that they used as an excuse to get rid of ranked, they’d do some community management on this premade issue before the toxicity gets out of control.

First step is BioWare start communicating about it instead of ignoring it & hoping it will go away. Because that’s not going to happen & it will keep festering & just drive people from the game if they ignore player concerns. 

I don't think you're wrong.  I think there's more to it tbh.  You've already hit what I think is the absolute nail directly on the head by talking about how necessary lowbie is to the development of a pvp player, and how that piece missing from the puzzle is causing a lot of problems at 80.  I've always found it mind boggling that a new pvp player who jumps into pvp at max level thinks they should have this easy road to success which is just so far from the truth.  Having never pvp'd until 80 and then jumping in is akin to being able to stand in the shallow end of a pool while not knowing how to swim then thinking let's just dive into the deep end then immediately sinking and going this is wrong...and blaming it on the pool. They need to be in lowbie. Not 80. Expecting max level anything to be cake walks is just the wrong mindset to have. And we should rightly tell them so. 

As an addition I did want to bring up that other poster's comment again.  Regardless of what the responses are to it them calling certain behaviors toxic is a tad bit wrong. Sure it's annoying, but to say they are spawn camping is just wild.  Every warzone match sans huttball has two exits. If they're farming at one,....exit via the other.  If this player or anyone like them are constantly running by themselves into a group of enemy players then that's a super idiotic move. So for them to call it toxic when they can still exit another way can only be considered partly toxic.  A player typing in chat EZ has to be the most benign form of trash talk I've ever seen.  So their complaint while totally understandable from a perspective of frustration is actually way more flimsy from a toxicity standpoint than they might want. 

If this player or group of players who were in this match were so uncompetitive that they lost control of the entire map to where the enemy team was literally camping both exit points then that has to be a sign that all of these players should say  "hey I want to pvp, but well I may not be ready for a max level environment. I should take advantage of lowbie and create a new character."  They still get the opportunity to participate in the pvp season, and probably increase their ability to enjoy the game mode as a result.  They have to actually make the choice though. They can't always say there isn't anything for them to do. Even if the game doesn't properly prepare players for much, they still do have that good option available to them of new character to lowbie. And we should as a community encourage them to create that new character. Casual or not. Whatever casual actually means. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by Shwarzchild

[Fynnlagh]

If they wanted to improve pvp they

a) stop people from queing with a full squad

b) use templates instead of gear item levels

but I think neither is wanted by Bioware or they don't even know they have a pvp game mode.

[krackcommando]

13 hours ago, Shwarzchild said:

hey need to be in lowbie. Not 80. Expecting max level anything to be cake walks is just the wrong mindset to have. And we should rightly tell them so.

any kind of gear grind in pvp represents a serious disconnect between the raison d'etre of pvp and what BW thinks of pvp. but that's specially problematic when gear disparity is a major factor. there's nobody running around with 310-370k HP who is above getting tunneled and destroyed against aug'd, enh'd (i.e., min/max'd) 332+ players. it doesn't matter what class or spec you're playing. you're an easy tunnel. or you can just be ignored b/c you hit like a wet noodle.

so forget about knowing how to play your class. just the gear disparity alone hasn't been this bad since the expertise years when entitled players jumped into pvp w/o expertise and then cried about getting blown up.

i'm not saying bolster is non-existent in 7.2. but it definitely hasn't been this ineffective in a LONG time.

furthermore, I have noticed a SIGNIFICANT increase in my output in arsenal since I pushed (almost) all of my augs to 300 (from 286). that was not supposed to be such a large increase, and I don't know if it's just this spec or all specs/classes, but what was supposed to be a token gain (and ~5-10k hp?), is the only variable in my game that now sees me at the top of numerous meters (particularly when the engagement is bursty single-target for obv reasons).

[TrixxieTriss]

1 hour ago, krackcommando said:

i'm not saying bolster is non-existent in 7.2. but it definitely hasn't been this ineffective in a LONG time.

furthermore, I have noticed a SIGNIFICANT increase in my output in arsenal since I pushed (almost) all of my augs to 300 (from 286). that was not supposed to be such a large increase, and I don't know if it's just this spec or all specs/classes, but what was supposed to be a token gain (and ~5-10k hp?), is the only variable in my game that now sees me at the top of numerous meters (particularly when the engagement is bursty single-target for obv reasons).

There is a misconception that Bolster is still a thing. According to testing & from BioWares own mouth, there is no bolster anymore. There is only supposed to be a type of cap on higher gear. Which obviously isn’t working as well as it should. 
 

Quick point regarding your augments. If you’re augs are alacrity or crit based, that’s probably why you are seeing higher damage on an arsenal Merc. 

[krackcommando]

3 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

There is a misconception that Bolster is still a thing. According to testing & from BioWares own mouth, there is no bolster anymore. There is only supposed to be a type of cap on higher gear. Which obviously isn’t working as well as it should. 

Whatever it is, there's a really big difference between 332 min/max'd (augs/enh) and 300-326 aug'd. I was 306 min/maxed for a while and fine just kiting for a week (had no idea how to get gear). but I was also on a merc that had both rocket out and reflect, so I could kite well (I didn't even realize that was a glitch until I respec'd another toon and lost one of them!). but the wet noodle was forever. not until gold augs...

 

3 hours ago, TrixxieTriss said:

Quick point regarding your augments. If you’re augs are alacrity or crit based, that’s probably why you are seeing higher damage on an arsenal Merc. 

1 alac. rest crit. same for enh iirc.

I'm considering random charge instead of second wind b/c that 6s window is pretty short for burst. but holy cow! that 2nd wind is just so amazing. especially in WZ where someone you tagged is always dying. 😄

[AwesomeTacoCat]

On 5/5/2023 at 12:25 AM, krackcommando said:

I'm considering random charge instead of second wind b/c that 6s window is pretty short for burst. but holy cow! that 2nd wind is just so amazing. especially in WZ where someone you tagged is always dying. 😄

Second wind in arenas tho? I think the damage increase from random charge vastly outweighs the minute survivability increase from second wind.

[sithBracer]

On 5/5/2023 at 1:25 AM, krackcommando said:

I'm considering random charge instead of second wind b/c that 6s window is pretty short for burst. but holy cow! that 2nd wind is just so amazing. especially in WZ where someone you tagged is always dying. 😄

Highly recommended. I used it on my sin and it is really amazing. On a class like merc it would probably be even better.

[krackcommando]

10 hours ago, AwesomeTacoCat said:

Second wind in arenas tho? I think the damage increase from random charge vastly outweighs the minute survivability increase from second wind.

 

4 hours ago, sithBracer said:

Highly recommended. I used it on my sin and it is really amazing. On a class like merc it would probably be even better.

not gonna lie. I'm traumatized since s3 (first time maining merc) about being tunneled and kiting. 😆