Dear EA, a simple solution to the inflation problem in swtor. (Economy Fix)

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Darcmoon:

What makes you think BW would adjust any of the costs?  The only cost changes in the SH they have done is offer the DK and Corusant ones at the anniversary times.  

I'll also ask this since you brought it up with me and here again.  What could they offer me to compensate for taking my credits?  Would that compensation be the same for everyone and how many would think it is worth it?  I doubt anyone would believe that it is something that only they would get.  BW has proven that they will take items that were advertised as being one off or exclusive and making them available to other players.  Why would I believe they won't do it again when enough people start wanting that item?

"What makes you think BW would adjust any of the costs? " Well, they would have to, to make the "fix" work and actually try to adjust the game a bit... If they don't then that is rather stupid, but I am not part of their company so that is on their own...

 

"What could they offer me to compensate for taking my credits?  Would that compensation be the same for everyone and how many would think it is worth it? [...] BW has proven that they will take items that were advertised as being one off or exclusive and making them available to other players."  That I don't know... Just assume it is something really cool... maybe I will figure something out, but maybe not. Maybe you can tell me? Or maybe Bioware will figure something out. I am just trying to find solutions for the problems, sadly I don't have all the answers yet.

[Darcmoon]

2 minutes ago, BlackySchwarz said:

"What makes you think BW would adjust any of the costs? " Well, they would have to, to make the "fix" work and actually try to adjust the game a bit... If they don't then that is rather stupid, but I am not part of their company so that is on their own...

 

"What could they offer me to compensate for taking my credits?  Would that compensation be the same for everyone and how many would think it is worth it? [...] BW has proven that they will take items that were advertised as being one off or exclusive and making them available to other players."  That I don't know... Just assume it is something really cool... maybe I will figure something out, but maybe not. Maybe you can tell me? Or maybe Bioware will figure something out. I am just trying to find solutions for the problems, sadly I don't have all the answers yet.

If they implemented something like your suggestion, we would have to hope they did but they have shown they can be rather stupid at times.  I can't think of anything they could offer me that would be worth the credits they took.  Not saying it isn't possible, but nothing I can think of either.  BW has shown that it doesn't take feedback into consideration once they make a decision usually.  The 'credit initiative' they just rolled out proves that.  I'll grant they changed when you get charged leaving your SH but you still get charged unless you go back to where you just came from and there were alot of people saying the QT costs was a bad idea but they didn't budge.  The amount of complaining I've heard in game yesterday and today has been rediculous.  And alot of them first asked why there is now a cost.  They didn't know it was going to happen.  BW would announce they were doing something similar to your suggestion, and come patch day people would be logging in to find that they suddenly lost x amount of credits and be pissed because they don't know why.

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb DarthAlastor:

This same suggestion has been made multiple times before and I'm sure will be made multiple times again. You nuke peoples credits then you nuke the game. Unlike real life there is no way to determine which credits were obtained from credit sellers or exploits but people have spent lots of time and some including myself have even spent extra dollars buying cartel coins and items from the cartel market. I would definitely quit if I logged in one day after coming home from work and found that all of my credits were gone

All this solution really does is flattening the playingfield a bit, so that the economy is not inflated anymore. Rich people like us will still be rich and you can still keep your wonderful cartel items/ coins but the less rich people have actually a chance to at least get close to your wealth without spending 1k worth of real world currency,, they would still have to spend a significant amount of ingame time to get as much money as you have. 
 

It doesn't seem like there are any better solutions than this one but if you know of one then I would be happy to hear it. I will definetly look into it. If you don't have anything of value to add to find a solution then please consider to refrain from commenting here.

[Darcmoon]

1 minute ago, BlackySchwarz said:

All this solution really does is flattening the playingfield a bit, so that the economy is not inflated anymore. Rich people like us will still be rich and you can still keep your wonderful cartel items/ coins but the less rich people have actually a chance to at least get close to your wealth without spending 1k worth of real world currency,, they would still have to spend a significant amount of ingame time to get as much money as you have. 
 

It doesn't seem like there are any better solutions than this one but if you know of one then I would be happy to hear it. I will definetly look into it. If you don't have anything of value to add to find a solution then please consider to refrain from commenting here.

Then please look at my first post where I said that I think this solution would cause too many people to quit and as a result cause the game to shut down.  As for flattening the playing field, five minutes after they did it someone would be on the forums asking them to fix the economy again because they still cannot afford whichever cartel item they want.  And they would be even more insistant about it because BW has done it once already.

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Darcmoon:

Then please look at my first post where I said that I think this solution would cause too many people to quit and as a result cause the game to shut down.  As for flattening the playing field, five minutes after they did it someone would be on the forums asking them to fix the economy again because they still cannot afford whichever cartel item they want.  And they would be even more insistant about it because BW has done it once already.

"Then please look at my first post where I said that I think this solution would cause too many people to quit and as a result cause the game to shut down. " Yea I did see that you wrote this, so? The model neither wipes all your money nor does saying this statement over and over on the same post add anything for the solution?

 

"As for flattening the playing field, five minutes after they did it someone would be on the forums asking them to fix the economy again because they still cannot afford whichever cartel item they want.  And they would be even more insistant about it because BW has done it once already."  No, logically speaking "they" would not, since now they could afford more things with credits on the GTN as before. And even if "they" wrote on the forum aynway, BW would/should just say no because the inflation issue has been fixed.

vor 9 Minuten schrieb Darcmoon:

If they implemented something like your suggestion, we would have to hope they did but they have shown they can be rather stupid at times.  I can't think of anything they could offer me that would be worth the credits they took.  Not saying it isn't possible, but nothing I can think of either.  BW has shown that it doesn't take feedback into consideration once they make a decision usually.  The 'credit initiative' they just rolled out proves that.  I'll grant they changed when you get charged leaving your SH but you still get charged unless you go back to where you just came from and there were alot of people saying the QT costs was a bad idea but they didn't budge.  The amount of complaining I've heard in game yesterday and today has been rediculous.  And alot of them first asked why there is now a cost.  They didn't know it was going to happen.  BW would announce they were doing something similar to your suggestion, and come patch day people would be logging in to find that they suddenly lost x amount of credits and be pissed because they don't know why.

Yea I agree if they did it like that and ignored half of the things I mentioned, then they would really ruin the game but one can only hope that they won't be so stupid.

[Darcmoon]

1 minute ago, BlackySchwarz said:

"Then please look at my first post where I said that I think this solution would cause too many people to quit and as a result cause the game to shut down. " Yea I did see that you wrote this, so? The model neither wipes all your money nor does saying this statement over and over on the same post add anything for the solution?

 

"As for flattening the playing field, five minutes after they did it someone would be on the forums asking them to fix the economy again because they still cannot afford whichever cartel item they want.  And they would be even more insistant about it because BW has done it once already."  No, logically speaking "they" would not, since now they could afford more things with credits on the GTN as before. And even if "they" wrote on the forum aynway, BW would/should just say no because the inflation issue has been fixed.

 

'They' would.  They still wouldn't be able to afford the items they want because the people who had them would still price them above the amount they had.  When I mentioned the 'exclusive' items earlier, that is the exact same.  After the first time, 'they' kept using the 'you've done it before' with item x so there is no reason not to do it again.  Additionally, while you and others may think the issue has been fixed, 'they' wouldn't.  

[BlackySchwarz]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Darcmoon:

'They' would.  They still wouldn't be able to afford the items they want because the people who had them would still price them above the amount they had.  When I mentioned the 'exclusive' items earlier, that is the exact same.  After the first time, 'they' kept using the 'you've done it before' with item x so there is no reason not to do it again.  Additionally, while you and others may think the issue has been fixed, 'they' wouldn't.  

uhh well, "they" would come to realize that no one would buy their items then, because no one could afford them... so they will lower the prices eventually. That is how economy works (assuming "they" actually want to sell the items on the GTN and don't just put them their out of spite lol)

Edited March 29, 2023 by BlackySchwarz
forgot to add a part of explanation

[Darcmoon]

5 minutes ago, BlackySchwarz said:

uhh well, "they" would come to realize that no one would buy their items then, because no one could afford them... so they will lower the prices eventually. That is how economy works (assuming "they" actually want to sell the items on the GTN and don't just put them their out of spite lol)

The same people who were able to buy their stuff before would be able to.  The people who couldn't afford it before would still not be able to.

[Exocor]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Darcmoon:

The same people who were able to buy their stuff before would be able to.  The people who couldn't afford it before would still not be able to.

 

I don't think that's entirely correct.

 

OP is not implying that math works differently than it actually does. If we reduce all credits in the game by a specific factor and assume that it leads to prices dropping by the same factor, this is obviously correct. But that's not adding anything to this conversation.

What OP is trying to go for is that people will be able to catch up to the amount of credits needed to buy a certain item faster than they do now. Right now, I don't know how to obtain, let's say, 10 billion credits in order to afford a certain item from a certain seller. But, if we completely factor out trade, I would see a doable path in farming 3 million credits by doing content. And that's the kind of economy OP is aiming for.

 

And in this economy, where the most expensive item costs a few million credits, those that have several hundred millions would still be able to afford everything. And this is the point where the argument of time put into obtaining the credits falls apart: Credits represent a certain value. If we reduce all credits in the game by the same factor and - as you did - assume that prices stay the same relative to the credits that were deleted, the value of the credits you had before the credit-deletion is the same as the value of the credits you have afterwards. So, in fact, the time and effort you put into farming those credits would not be taken away - it would still be represented in the credits you have. The only difference would be the number on your screen.

 

And here is another real world example: There have been many times when inflation hit a countries currency. Most notably during the Weimar Republic. What did the government do to combat inflation? They invented a new currency and phased out the old currency, with a fixed exchange rate. The people that were rich before, remained rich and the people that were poor before remained poor. But why do it? Because the poor were not able to afford anything with the money they were carrying home with a wheelbarrow the day before. We don't have that wheelbarrow problem. But we do have a problem of poor people not being able to afford anything, thus, turning to nefarios ways of obtaining credits. If game-generated activities increase in value (of credits obtained by doing them), they don't have to turn to gold-sellers anymore.

 

As for the point I'm trying to make: I've been active in selling Operations-Achievements and Items to willing buyers before I put in a break - at the end of Patch 5.x. That's basically a service we provided against a monetary compensation. If we have fewer Credits, they would obviously not pay the high prices that are being called these days for that service. They would pay less. But we would in-turn not need as many credits to buy certain stuff from other service- or goods-providers (most notably, buying stuff in the GTN like augments or cosmetic items). So if we get less money, but need less money for our expenses, wouldn't the value of what we get for our service stay the same? The value of the service stays the same and the value of the things we buy does. Why should I care about the currency we use to interchange those things?

 

And lastly, I have to admit that I don't really get the desire to obtain more and more money. I get that there is some kind of value behind it, but we all know that the next credit exploit is already waiting around the corner. So why should I bother with obtaining huge amounts of money, only for them to lose value anyway after some time? Isn't that, what in fact, your problem seems to be? Having the result of the time and (real world) money invested into the game being stripped away from you? Inflation is doing exactly that. Why are you not up in arms about that? I'd suggest investing my money into valuable items and storing them somewhere. Those things don't lose value relative to the economy. Credits do.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Exocor

[Enriquezarmy]

I see people like you at my job all the time. People who tell you why it can't be done. But you offer no solution, just keep the ridiculously inflated economy. You know this isn't real right? oh you'd quit? go ahead! you're one dude. If you know as I know most people got this money illegitimately credit washing on the GTN then you should be OK with drastic measures to fix this game. You're like the meme where a dog is sitting in a house that's on fire and hes just thinking "This is fine".

I'd still play, I don't play SWTOR to play the Auction House, I play to immerse myself in a SW universe for a couple hours and go back to reality.

[LtBabyLucien]

11 hours ago, Jdast said:

Blacky,

Here is where your relative purchasing power argument falls apart. At the exact moment you devalue everyone's holdings by /10 (and then repeatedly), you have effectively and significantly leveled the playing field to allow newer players to catch up. You are ignoring the fact that I spent hundreds of hours to earn the credits I did so your division would have a far more disproportionate impact on me than on a newer player.

It would completely disincentivize me from earning credits in the future and trading knowing Bioware could and would make a decision at any time to devalue the time I spent to earn those credits.

It's the opposite of moral hazard in economics, where you don't want to bail out people because they will expect more bailouts in the future. In this case, why work my tail off earning credits knowing Bioware was going to /10 them in a couple months time?

By ignoring the time and effort factor put into earning credits that I as a long-term player have invested, you are devaluing me as a player who has been a long-term contributor. Consequently, I would not invest in the game and I would leave. So you're wrong when you said to Cynical Steve it is about the number of credits -- it is also about the time invested to earn those credits you are devaluing.

It's that simple.

Dasty

 

I agree with Dasty. I don't craft. I don't farm. I just play the storyline. I used to be able to do flashpoints, before my friends I'd run with got tired of unplayable glitches in the latest Malgus fight. I don't do a lot of sales on the GTN unless I get CM things in a crate and end up not liking them. Last time I sold anything on GTN was about 3 years ago. I earned my measly (relatively speaking) 4 mill over the course of 5 years on my current server between my 16 characters. That's after spending a fair amount of my earnings on playing space barbie. I'd be pretty frustrated to lose 5 years' worth of earning credits in one fell swoop, when I am already going to spend it fairly quickly using QT at this rate since I don't have the patience to run around on a speeder to save credits.

I'd probably end up leaving until there was some Fantastical New Story Update To Make It Mildly Worthwhile.

[LtBabyLucien]

2 hours ago, Enriquezarmy said:

I see people like you at my job all the time. People who tell you why it can't be done. But you offer no solution, just keep the ridiculously inflated economy. You know this isn't real right? oh you'd quit? go ahead! you're one dude. If you know as I know most people got this money illegitimately credit washing on the GTN then you should be OK with drastic measures to fix this game. You're like the meme where a dog is sitting in a house that's on fire and hes just thinking "This is fine".

I'd still play, I don't play SWTOR to play the Auction House, I play to immerse myself in a SW universe for a couple hours and go back to reality.

I also play for the SW universe. I've hardly used GTN since from the start of me playing, I didn't craft or have CM items to sell and earn beaucoup bucks to buy things for credits. I was a broke high school student when I started, then a broke college student. I'm now at a point where I can comfortably use real money to buy the items I want. I just want to hold onto the credits I've earned through straight gameplay so I can afford my terrible QT-usage tendencies, repairs, and outfit changes as I terribly enjoy playing space barbie.

[DarthAlastor]

Instead of just deleting everyones credits how about adding things that make people want to spend their credits on. Put more vendors on the fleet in the cartel bazaar that sell items from the cartel market for credits and have it rotate every week. Or let us make use of the 500 companions we have instead of only being able to send 8 of them out at a time

[_Re_V_aN_]

Remove Dye from CM. Put Dye into Cartel Bazar Vendor where need cartel certificate. People still need buy cartel pack because need certificate for buying something from bazar vendor so bw should not loose much money win/win. Also ppl can get certificate from smugler machine = people have something where can spend credits..