Self-Heals

[Monhnich]

I'm sure there are many topics about this but self -heals should be such that. To heal the individual player and not be allowed to be used to heal teammates.  Anyone that wants to heal teammates should respec for that specific role. To many times had seen Scoundrels and Sorcerers queuing has dps but using their self-healing abilities to heal entire team. 

A dps class should not be allowed to heal friendly targets. If a Sorc queue has dps then Dark Heals and Resurgence should be disable during pvp. Those abilities should be exclusive to healers. No dps class should have more than 2 self-heals. Dps Sorcerers have 3 self-heals and two of those abilities can be used to heal friendly targets. At such rate Why anyone should queue as healers...

[TrixxieTriss]

6 hours ago, Monhnich said:

I'm sure there are many topics about this but self -heals should be such that. To heal the individual player and not be allowed to be used to heal teammates.  Anyone that wants to heal teammates should respec for that specific role. To many times had seen Scoundrels and Sorcerers queuing has dps but using their self-healing abilities to heal entire team. 

A dps class should not be allowed to heal friendly targets. If a Sorc queue has dps then Dark Heals and Resurgence should be disable during pvp. Those abilities should be exclusive to healers. No dps class should have more than 2 self-heals. Dps Sorcerers have 3 self-heals and two of those abilities can be used to heal friendly targets. At such rate Why anyone should queue as healers...

You’d have to jack up Sorcs DPS output if you were to nerf their self heals.

[Beyrahl]

If we went down this path we'd soon have a rotation spam only PvP like FFXIV.

[DougTheNoob]

17 hours ago, Monhnich said:

I'm sure there are many topics about this but self -heals should be such that. To heal the individual player and not be allowed to be used to heal teammates.  Anyone that wants to heal teammates should respec for that specific role. To many times had seen Scoundrels and Sorcerers queuing has dps but using their self-healing abilities to heal entire team. 

A dps class should not be allowed to heal friendly targets. If a Sorc queue has dps then Dark Heals and Resurgence should be disable during pvp. Those abilities should be exclusive to healers. No dps class should have more than 2 self-heals. Dps Sorcerers have 3 self-heals and two of those abilities can be used to heal friendly targets. At such rate Why anyone should queue as healers...

This is a complex subject. Although I feel like some classes can off heal almost as good as a full healer (lethality and madness), I dont really want em to nerf all self heals/off heals,cos thats what makes those classes play like they do. I actually only have a problem when a class/spec has everything ,like insane off heals,high dmg,high movement and so on. Like I said,this is a complex discussion,and I feel like there are more important issues to solve b4 that.

[-Garmonbozia]

On 2/12/2023 at 1:11 PM, DougTheNoob said:

This is a complex subject. Although I feel like some classes can off heal almost as good as a full healer (lethality and madness), I dont really want em to nerf all self heals/off heals,cos thats what makes those classes play like they do. I actually only have a problem when a class/spec has everything ,like insane off heals,high dmg,high movement and so on. Like I said,this is a complex discussion,and I feel like there are more important issues to solve b4 that.

Lethality can, madness can't.

Good players should be offhealing, it's no different than juggs and pts being able to taunt. It promotes team play and utilization of skills outside damaging rotations. 

[KumbayaGOD]

the support of each dps class is different , for example jugg , sin , pt can taunt to reduce the damage output from enemy

other like marauder can use predation to speed up team mates 

so bioware want to do some variety for all classes  i guess 

[HeatRacer]

Your team's DPS would have to be pretty bad indeed, if a Madness sorc is off-healing their teammate through your damage. 

[DaltarSpitfire]

I like this Thread. 

I vote to Remove all Heals from all Specs that are not Healers.

I vote to allow Dot Specs to Steal Life from Targets Giving them The Only Self Heals ingame.

I Vote To have All Healers in PvP have a Debuff that Reduces Healing Output by 50% no matter what.

I Vote to have all Taunts Debuff Extended to 18 Seconds like a DOT Effect.

I Vote to have all Dps Specs Damage reduced by 65% in warzones. like the healer debuff above. 

I Vote that tanks defence Mechanics should be looked at. and Internal damage should be Mitigated by Defence.

I vote Tanks should only be able to Wear / Use Defence Gear in Warzones. (dps / heals would be limited to power gear.) 

I Know and Understand alot of folks will hate this, and pick it apart. but if they started with this. and Balanced from there. Pvp wouldn't suck so bad. 

my reasons are kinda simple. if healers need tanks to stay alive. and tanks / dps need healers to stay alive. and dps is required to focus target in order to bring down enemies. 

then this Forces you to play together, instead of the BS 1v1 me bro crap we have in pvp right now.

[Beyrahl]

9 hours ago, DaltarSpitfire said:

I Vote To have All Healers in PvP have a Debuff that Reduces Healing Output by 50% no matter what.

I Vote to have all Taunts Debuff Extended to 18 Seconds like a DOT Effect.

I Vote to have all Dps Specs Damage reduced by 65% in warzones. like the healer debuff above. 

We already have trauma.
Taunts have cool down reduction available now. 
The damage difference between good and bad specs is kind of drastic. Not even mentioning player skill. 

I'd agree the damage is too high but this is absurd. 
Healing is too low in comparison, the average healer compared to a skill one is already drastic too. 

[Monhnich]

14 hours ago, DaltarSpitfire said:

 

I Know and Understand alot of folks will hate this, and pick it apart. but if they started with this. and Balanced from there. Pvp wouldn't suck so bad. 

my reasons are kinda simple. if healers need tanks to stay alive. and tanks / dps need healers to stay alive. and dps is required to focus target in order to bring down enemies. 

then this Forces you to play together, instead of the BS 1v1 me bro crap we have in pvp right now.

You right, enough of the argument. Let's come up with solutions.  My main is a Juggernaut, and here are some changes could help the class against selfheal specs:

 1. Force Lead should include a 4sec stun for every time it leads into a target.

 2. Vengeful Slam could also use a 2sec stun. all targets stun for 2s withing its ratios. 

 3. Take away Resurgence from Sorcs and give it to juggernauts.

 Only way we can level the field against Selfheal classes. It's only fair. Not asking for anything fancy 

[DougTheNoob]

2 hours ago, Monhnich said:

You right, enough of the argument. Let's come up with solutions.  My main is a Juggernaut, and here are some changes could help the class against selfheal specs:

 1. Force Lead should include a 4sec stun for every time it leads into a target.

 2. Vengeful Slam could also use a 2sec stun. all targets stun for 2s withing its ratios. 

 3. Take away Resurgence from Sorcs and give it to juggernauts.

 Only way we can level the field against Selfheal classes. It's only fair. Not asking for anything fancy 

Yes,give more cc to the class that already has a bunch of it! Seriously...lol

Edited February 27, 2023 by DougTheNoob

[DaltarSpitfire]

19 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

We already have trauma.
Taunts have cool down reduction available now. 
The damage difference between good and bad specs is kind of drastic. Not even mentioning player skill. 

I'd agree the damage is too high but this is absurd. 
Healing is too low in comparison, the average healer compared to a skill one is already drastic too. 

i'm not talking about Trauma. 

as I recall. in wow pvp, if you load into a battle ground everybody gets a -75% heal debuff and a -50% damage debuff. kinda like a Reverse Bolster. but it applies correctly and doesn't scale and bs with lvls. its a straight debuff across the board. this means that they don't have to "balance" pvp as often. simply because a mage(at one point in wow history this was actaully possible in pvp.) cannot go in and one shot everybody with a AOE Frost Storm or a Fireball. (wow is prolly a bad example. but i don't play alot of MMO's anymore. so i work with what i know.)

now again in wow they have Mortal Strike and it puts a trauma like debuff on the target for 20 seconds reducing heals incoming by 50% more. so if your being focused its much harder for a healer to keep you up. however only 3? classes have it. and its normally on a 30-45 second cooldown. so its not OP. (also keep in mind. in wow pvp its 10 vs 10, 20 vs 20, or 40 vs 40, and you normally have a large pool of classes to choose form. so flavorful is the way.)

Now Mind you. I have not said anything about Stuns / Resolve Bar, Roots, Snares, and the like. I'm interested in seeing if they can / will Fix the Damage / Heals Issue. or at least Mitigate it some.

I feel like the Damage Reduction Part of Taunt for pvp should be more like a dot. that sticks. i mean a 6 second window to reduce a targets damage is pretty small. thats 3 or 4 attacks. roughly. and at least two dot ticks. 

with damage as high as it is currently. this would be an acceptable option in my mind to bring damage down. i mean limit it one taunt debuff at a time. and you could have the aoe taunt debuff only last 12 seconds. seeing as it can hit a whole group at once. (Example being your against 3 targets, you can single taunt one. and group taunt right after. but the group taunt will only effect the two without a taunt. so it cannot stack. and your taunts go on Cooldown for at least 12 seconds. but if you taunt someone else. the debuff removes from the OG Target.) just like the Sniper Engineers interrogation probe.

damage vs spec vs skill 

I dunno what folks will do with this. we have no baseline and folks play on all types of PC's. being that everything is not equal in that respect there will always be differeneces. 

and those differences in hardware will translate into skill and ability. if your lagging or your graphics card is stuttering then your gonna get smoked. because to everyone else your running into a wall. or standing still. 

with pvp skill. all the mobile classes do better. and have higher damage. (too me this is wrong. if your a stationary target you should be big Iron)

again folks that are skilled at kiting, and with class abilitys that allow it, will steamroll melee or other ranged with no clue how to combat kiting. 

as for specs. all the internal damage specs out shine every other spec in pvp. because they don't need Acc, and they skip defences, shields, and absorbs. so every spec that doesn't have internal damage is SoL.

my personal fav class is Arsenal Merc. was my first class and still my prefered. we have 3 Dots. and 2 slows. Electro net has a 1.5 min Cooldown and only lasts 10 seconds. and can be CC Broken. most folks will CC Break when Electro Net'd. our other is a 2 second per hit from Unload / blazing bolts. so its kinda worthless. if you take the Tactical. you get 18k dot from Priming Shot, Electro Net for 10 seconds. and Fusion Missile(i have forgotten what Fusions Dot is and how long it is. my bad). Now I'm not Great with Numbers, but I'm pretty sure I cannot kill anyone with those 3 dots. last time I checked I have to toss in at least 7? tracers, 1 Missile Blast. 2-3 More Priming Shots, 3 blazing Bolt Channels. and 2-4 heatseekers / and railshots.  with Gas Cylinder On Top for Crit Chance. to kill one person with no DCD's. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by DaltarSpitfire
added some lines and expanded on a few things.

[Beyrahl]

This game isn't wow and damage doesn't scale into the 100ks+ but in very large aoe pulls. Damage in every expansion has been incredibly different compared to swtor. 
Item levels in wow give so much more damage in comparison. 

[Tasaas]

I play a lethality op, and when everything goes my way, I can do a 30,000 point heal.  Yes this is a nice sized heal, but my other 2 heals are maybe 5-7000 points.  Also, my large personal heal has a longer cooldown.   I can not heal as well as a dedicated healer.  

My heals allow me to sustain my mid to upper level damage.