Give Assassins deathknell as a legendary implant

[mastersys]

Doing so would buff them back up to being able to compete against; Marauders, lightning sorcs, and PTs. Mauls now deal horrid dmg and the most dmg sins get are from Reaping strike or Discharge. Sins just need a major dps buff one way or another, if anything just buff maul again up to old dealthknell standards because hitting 30k is laughable when others hit 60-80k with ease. (If anyone plans to comment on this, I expect to see playtime on your sins/shadow due to the fact that if you're speaking as an outsider, your input on the matter is not as accurate as someone who mains the class for years. ) Edited September 12, 2022 by mastersys

[CretinUseelad]

oh you don't think the 3 second from stealth big burst window then until you stealth out again you hit for 30k is fun 7.0 sin? Noone thinks its fun and that's why noone plays sin now aside from the few people I see that seem to have only one character...I can't think of a less fun class to play rn in regs tbh then sin...

[sithBracer]

If they release it, I doubt they will let sins use both death knell and shadowcraft together. Death knell wasn't even that good in 6.X after they nerfed it into the ground, why would anyone take it over shadowcraft today?

[ZUHFB]

Sin is very fun, very strong right now. You may not have fun but I do, shadowcraft is amazing, sins damage is great! I don't know why you are hitting for 30k mine still do 45-60k you just cannot hit into defensives but that should be obvious anyway.

You can have death knell, there is an option that consumes force potency stacks on MR hits and you can hit for more than 100k in you opener if you take this utility. It is very similar to death knell, sure the how you get the stacks isn't the same, but the fun is!

Edited September 13, 2022 by ZUHFB

[Beyrahl]

Should make shadow craft work off of stacks instead of time-based.

Along with working after your phantom stride regardless of stealth or not. Combat irrelevant.

It would be really good if so.

 

Though I would just like to see shadow craft completely reworked from the ground up.

I just don't like the idea of death knell because a set or implant making a class viable rather than the base class itself restricts potential options including future ones as you'll be locked to one for viability.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Beyrahl

[sithBracer]

Should make shadow craft work off of stacks instead of time-based.

Along with working after your phantom stride regardless of stealth or not. Combat irrelevant.

It would be really good if so.

 

All the sorcs and mercs would cry if that happened. But seriously, I think it would affect the parsing in PvE tremendously if they did that. I would have to check the numbers.

 

Though I would just like to see shadow craft completely reworked from the ground up.

I just don't like the idea of death knell because a set or implant making a class viable rather than the base class itself restricts potential options including future ones as you'll be locked to one for viability.

 

That is kind of what deception is now. Overly reliant on its opener and just a taunt/low slash bot after that. Sin itself needs a rework, it hasn't really changed much since 3.X. Instead of constantly being forced to just rely on opener and just be meh after that, they should integrate stealth into basic fighting like in gw2.

 

For example, instead of reaping strike being just another 4m melee attack (because we soooooooooooooooo need more of those), it should be 10m (maybe with a talent?), put the sin in stealth for 1s (still in combat) and have sin leap to enemy and attack. Much more fun, much more useful, integrates stealth into combat so it is a mini DCD.

 

I laugh at severing slash a lot, but if definitely could be made to be useful and fun to integrate if they did it correctly. For example, if you hit an enemy with severing slash, you automatically go into stealth for 2-3s (still stay in combat and increase CD to 15s or 20s). For deception every target you hit with severing slash raises your crit chance by 50% (2 max) on your next attack within 5s, and for hatred every target you hit raises your movement speed by 25%.

Edited September 13, 2022 by sithBracer

[septru]

...I can't think of a less fun class to play rn in regs tbh then sin...

 

Deception feels the most "assassin" like it has been since 3.0. It actually feels like you go in, murder someone, and stealth out.

 

I'm personally having a lot of fun on deception in regs and solo ranked. You might not, that's totally fine. I just don't really understand what you want a deception "assassin" to do then?

 

Should make shadow craft work off of stacks instead of time-based.

 

I disagree. I like the fact that it is a timed window. It makes it difficult for the player to fit all their burst into a short time. Kind of like old carnage marauder. It was much more fun to play and required a lot more skill than the new stack based ferocity.

 

And also allows skilled players counter their burst by popping CDs during the window. If one thing goes wrong during that window, like a bubblestun or a knockback, the assassin could lose out on all their burst.

 

The problem is the window is too long. I'm more in favor of nerfing the window from 6 seconds to 4 seconds. This would allow players to only maul > reaping strike > discharge and force players to choose whether they want to substitute a burst gcd for a low slash

Edited September 13, 2022 by septru

[Beyrahl]

Stack base does make it impossible to just kite it out.

My idea of stacks would be 2-3 charges at max.

 

As for being able to use it while out of stealth, I think it should be nerfed, it'd be way more applicable and uptime just better if so.

 

A redesign idea could be.

Deception effect - Discharge makes the next maul auto crit. Can only occur every 15s.

Hatred effect - Death field makes the next assassinate auto crit. Can only occur every 15s.

Pretty generic but would help both specs quite a bit in both PvP / PvE. Though PvE is far more touchy due to its passive talents, which aren't as easily applicable in PvP.

[septru]

Stack base does make it impossible to just kite it out.

 

Guess thats where we disagree. I like the skill in having to fit into a window. And on the flipside the skill in trying to kite out the window.

[VVK_AvaiL]

A post-nerf Death Knell set of passives worked into the class would be perfectly fine and make the class viable in a competitive setting.

[ZUHFB]

A post-nerf Death Knell set of passives worked into the class would be perfectly fine and make the class viable in a competitive setting.

 

It is THE BEST solo ranked class already...

[assatrap]

It is THE BEST solo ranked class already...

 

unless there is 1 merc (worse if more) on other side.. who decides to always net you the moment you popup lol

[assatrap]

Guess thats where we disagree. I like the skill in having to fit into a window. And on the flipside the skill in trying to kite out the window.

 

you cannot kite out the window of the sin burst unless sorc. If you do it properly with the stun-chain rotation. Which obviously is not easy requires perfect execution and timing. But yeh agree. Sins are in a good place right now. Best they have been in years. Its not easy to get the best out of it like e.x jugg. You really have to have the skills to get the most out of this class.

[Monterone]

Though I would just like to see shadow craft completely reworked from the ground up...

 

Agreed, it just doesn't fit for Deception but there is no better choice so we have to take it.

 

I hate burning my gap closer for 30s because I need to use it as an opener. But we have to use it as an opener because we lost all the cool openers we used to have.

 

Does it work? Sure, we can make anything work. But it doesn't fit with deception and we should get a deception only implant. A worthwhile one.

[ZUHFB]

unless there is 1 merc (worse if more) on other side.. who decides to always net you the moment you popup lol

 

well skill issue, it is not like sin doesn't have counterplay to this. You can, for example deflection when you pop, after dark stability you can shroud, predicting various hardstuns, or you can keep it for the net and then once it is almost expired you can break -> vanish

 

these are like the basics of sin

[ZUHFB]

Agreed, it just doesn't fit for Deception but there is no better choice so we have to take it.

 

I hate burning my gap closer for 30s because I need to use it as an opener. But we have to use it as an opener because we lost all the cool openers we used to have.

 

Does it work? Sure, we can make anything work. But it doesn't fit with deception and we should get a deception only implant. A worthwhile one.

 

idk, shadowcraft is how I imagine an assassin, you go in big stuns big numbers cool animations and then you disaapear into the darkness of the night

 

shadowcraft is very cool, and I have to say I agree with prum that a stack based system would be kinda boring

[septru]

shadowcraft is very cool, and I have to say I agree with prum that a stack based system would be kinda boring

 

We've tried stack based burst on carnage marauder. And I think 99% of anyone who's played carnage marauder would have preferred the window based burst.

[septru]

you cannot kite out the window of the sin burst unless sorc.

 

You can if the assassin doesnt hardstun and instead greeds for more damage during the window.

 

But even if you can't kite there are a lot of ways to mitigate or counter play a burst timed window with for example reflect, shield.

 

My point is, it's not easy to counter play a burst timed window. It should requires skill. Fitting the burst into the window should also require skill, which is why I suggest reducing the duration from 6 seconds to 4.

[Beyrahl]

Guess thats where we disagree. I like the skill in having to fit into a window. And on the flipside the skill in trying to kite out the window.

 

It is a bit silly to think there wouldn't be a timer on the stacks, I see no reason for it to go over 10s. If it even was a thing. When class stacking is involved both versions are a rather big problem and the solutions no longer work. No amount of skill is going to get you out of a 3 sin opener.

This is why I think it should just be overall reworked, 100% critical is basically like saying everything's an auto crit (not to be confused with regular criticals) this means all extra critical is dumped into the critical multiplier making it hit even higher.

 

Carnage's original window was 6 seconds, then 3 seconds. Clipping became a thing and people complained about ping, lag, etc. It got removed because people saw it as an unfair advantage.

Now I am all for timings and windows, but I don't think it correlates to skill whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, know-how is a technical skill but making use of a simplistic burst window isn't as difficult as it'd seem and is very easy to practice.

Anyone could do clipping before it just took practice, not much of it either. It would be no different than before, for example how low slash works and how to fit in an extra ability due to travel time. It's not exclusive to just you either, your allies benefit from it too. Something so simple as making it have travel time makes the difference, does that take skill? Not really, just requires you to be aware of it as you just press a single button while having a slight distance on the target.

 

But regardless I am not here to argue to make it stacks or not to make stacks, I don't care either way. It was merely an idea to add to the pool to have people think. There are a lot of problems in general and balancing is a complicated thing because there are multiple angles you have to take into account. Pretty much to the point I just don't see this implant ever seeing a version that's balanced unless the critical was nerfed a good amount.

The majority of the time they just take it from a PvE perspective and DPS output regardless of its PvP application and playability. Though - if you have looked at potential changes coming it does seem like they're paying attention. Maybe that's just because 7.2 is probably in the works. So I think now and in the coming months, it's probably a better time than ever to come up with ideas, feedback, or suggestions overall.

Edited September 16, 2022 by Beyrahl