This game is a failure as multiplayer. Develop single player aspects only

[SoonerJBD]

Yes, yes, some of you undoubtedly like multiplayer stuff, but the reality is obvious. There aren’t enough players to sustain healthy multiplayer in this game. There are only a few guilds per server really doing progression raiding, and most people are completely locked out of that content because they don’t have the time or can’t logon at peak times when guilds schedule raids. Raiding PUGs is a nightmare. Flashpoints are almost as bad at this point. The changes to the group queue from 7.0 onwards has made it much more likely you will get raids like Nathema Conspiracy that no one wants to run because they take forever and offer no more reward than Hammer Station or Athiss. Plus, I’m getting Esseles/Black Talon a bunch, and it may be even worse because there is always someone who refuses to spacebar, making the thing take 45 minutes. The quality of PUG groups has gotten worse. Not that it was ever great, but now you are almost guaranteed at least one person who doesn’t know the instance, won’t speak up and ask questions and won’t listen when directions are given. Or there is someone who wants to pull every trash group. If you politely ask that your time not be wasted, it turns into a fight and someone gets vote kicked. Then there is PvP, which has always been broken. Balance is a joke and always has been.

 

The best thing about this game was the class stories. Although KOTFE/KOTET were good stories, they felt totally disconnected from Star Wars, like some different RPG that got re-skinned as an expansion to this game. The more recent attempts to go back to a more Star Wars type story have been disappointing, mostly because we only get a couple of hours of story per expansion, so if you play it on your old toons, you never remember where you were or what was going on a year and a half later when the three new cutscenes get released.

 

I know it isn’t practical because of the cost of the voice talent, etc., but what this game really needs is to get back to class specific stories. None of the alliance stuff works. It is a cheap attempt to combine protagonists into a generic story because you can’t afford to do any better. Honestly, I’d be OK with text only from each class if it means we can get stories that feel like Star Wars and like Old Republic again. I still go back and replay the class stories over and over because it is the only good thing about this game anymore.

Edited August 4, 2022 by SoonerJBD

[JediQuaker]

95% of what I do in SWTOR is group content. Spacebar'ing through yakky yak 'story' is not my idea of fun any more. 🙂

[waisting]

Nah. Group content is the only reason I still log on, to do stuff with friends or some pvp / gsf. Also more class stories as you request is a pipe dream. If we haven't had more since launch, we certainly won't get any more now.

[Ardrossan]

I agree, but I don't really trust the studio as writers anymore. You mentioned the failure of Kotfe/et. I agree. Many of the writers on this team started on those expansions. That's all they know how to write. They can do a pastiche of False Emperor, regurgitating more Empire vs Republic vs Malgus content, but it's too much to expect them to write actual class stories. The Rishi missions were effectively the sunset for those stories--and were viewed that way at the time too. The last guy who actually wrote a class story just left and he was here all this time and seemed to do nothing to ensure the stories coming out would be as good as the ones that came before.

 

This doesn't get into the practical realities: whether they admit it or not, they clearly have no money to do anything but content that keeps the most players on a treadwheel, i.e daily missions and gating gear behind 1 op at a very hard mode. It's not about rewarding l33t raiders, it's about slowing down gear progression for the majority. It makes a kind of sense--they saw at launch that content locusts ate through all their detailed stories, so why bother putting so much effort into future stories when they're just a leadup for the daily area/Op/FP/grinding?

 

I get it though, I really do. I was replaying story missions on Balmorra recently and did the quest chain with Gann Sakoal, the imp scientist who thinks his wife is cheating on him. When you accept a mission from questgivers in vanilla and click on them after, they'll usually have some line repeating the quest in brief or asking why you're still around. They also have reactions after you complete the mission. In this case, after you go to Garboza at the next outpost and accept the offer to give him dirt on Sakoal, if you go back to him--and why would you, it's a one-off quest--he'll lament that he's now under investigation. It's this amazing little easter egg that i doubt most players would see. Why do this? Because it's fun, because it showed their passion for the story! But those devs are gone now and we're stuck with their disinterested replacements.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Ardrossan

[Toraak]

No thank you. I only play for GSF, and Operations anymore.

[xordevoreaux]

There aren’t enough players to sustain healthy multiplayer in this game.

Join. A. Guild.

Edited August 4, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[ForfiniteStories]

It's a common fact that it's not a good multiplayer game. Classes are woefully unbalanced in 7.0 and GSF receives almost no support and is also kind of broken.

 

Barely any groups get together for Flashpoints and Uprisings, and even Operations are a rarity. There is the bad engine causing wipes, lag, the tedious gearing process, and the obscene difficulty to prove to you why players hardly partake in these things beyond Story Mode. There used to be only one guild that offered carries, and now they don't even do that anymore.

 

One thing they can do to get me back into this game is to remove level scaling, because what's needed to retain a healthy, active population hasn't been there for years.

 

The best thing about this game was the class stories. Although KOTFE/KOTET were good stories, they felt totally disconnected from Star Wars, like some different RPG that got re-skinned as an expansion to this game.

 

Which is a result of that story appearing out of thin air, without any sort of build up, in my opinion. The events that occurred in the trailer and while your character was in carbonite should have been the expansion. Have there be a reason for it to be called KNIGHTS/EMPIRE. Since they have yet to continue or conclude the Class Stories, this would have been a good way for them to separate the player from them; imagine, struggling against all odds, hoping against hope, watching all that you love perish and fall apart, seeing your class characters and perhaps a companion die, only to lose in the end. Get the player emotionally invested in the Eternal Empire, give us a reason to fear or hate it, etc.

 

Perhaps Zakuul should have been an explorable world with its own quests and whatnot, so that we can get accustomed to the planet and its people, learn more about them, or wring as much chaos as possible, etc.

 

The new stuff hasn't been interesting for me, because everything feels inconsequential and weightless. Whatever the Republic accomplishes has no visible effect on the Empire story, vice-verse. There also doesn't seem to be an actual plot. And who captured Malgus? Did he get cloned?

Edited August 4, 2022 by ForfiniteStories

[Xhuuyaa]

Join. A. Guild.

 

7.0

+ 3 weeks - my Nim/HC Guild disappeared, no one wanted the grind

+ 2 months - my new pub side HC guild, mostly in 330, stopped playing, bc there were nothing to play

+ 4 months - my casual SM/HC guild lost all its players eexpt one, because galactic season ended

 

7.1

tuesday - largest guild on my server: 23 members online, 17 <80, 6 x 80.

 

Maybe you have no clue what you're talking about?

Edited August 4, 2022 by Xhuuyaa

[xordevoreaux]

7.0

+ 3 weeks - my Nim/HC Guild disappeared, no one wanted the grind

+ 2 months - my new pub side HC guild, mostly in 330, stopped playing, bc there were nothing to play

+ 4 months - my casual SM/HC guild lost all its players eexpt one, because galactic season ended

 

7.1

tuesday - largest guild on my server: 23 members online, 17 <80, 6 x 80.

 

Maybe you have no clue what you're talking about?

 

8 years, my guilds I created are still around, functional, and running operations.

I know what I'm talking about.

Edited August 4, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[Xhuuyaa]

8 years, my guilds I created are still around, functional, and running operations.

I know what I'm talking about.

 

Look, thats what I mean, obviously you have not much experience whats going on outside "the guilds you created"... but to settle this, I'll quote my old guild master "Why Don't We Just Wait Here For A Little While, See What Happens?"

Time will tell how great 7.x works out for the player base.

[xordevoreaux]

Look, thats what I mean, obviously you have not much experience whats going on outside "the guilds you created"... but to settle this, I'll quote my old guild master "Why Don't We Just Wait Here For A Little While, See What Happens?"

Time will tell how great 7.x works out for the player base.

 

There's this thing called momentum.

 

There Is Only Peace, which I created in 2014, is still around, still populated, still running operations and side events —so why after 8 freaking years of one unpopular major release after another after another after another, despite all the people who've left the game, despite all the bugs and crap that might not ever get fixed — would one more release suddenly put the guild in its grave? It's lasted this long, fair bet... it will continue to.

 

My statement still stands: join a guild. Find one with staying power.

Edited August 4, 2022 by xordevoreaux

[Ardrossan]

There's this thing called momentum.

 

There Is Only Peace, which I created in 2014, is still around, still populated, still running operations and side events —so why after 8 freaking years of one unpopular major release after another after another after another, despite all the people who've left the game, despite all the bugs and crap that might not ever get fixed — would one more release suddenly put the guild in its grave? It's lasted this long, fair bet... it will continue to.

 

My statement still stands: join a guild. Find one with staying power.

 

I'm in a guild like that, been around for years, often 25+ people on in the evenings, chatting on discord, doing group content together. it's fun.

 

BUT...restricting ops and some FPs to 80, the tedious gear grind...A good guild can be a great experience, but I get why it's not enough for many, and so should you, given your legions of alts.

[SoonerJBD]

8 years, my guilds I created are still around, functional, and running operations.

I know what I'm talking about.

 

Cool story. There are only a handful of guilds on each server that actually do much group content, particularly raids and even fewer who do real progression raiding. If you can’t make their schedules work, don’t like how the guild is run, don’t like the culture or otherwise find the guild isn’t for you, none of that content is accessible.

[JediQuaker]

Cool story. There are only a handful of guilds on each server that actually do much group content, particularly raids and even fewer who do real progression raiding. If you can’t make their schedules work, don’t like how the guild is run, don’t like the culture or otherwise find the guild isn’t for you, none of that content is accessible.

That is a bit 'over the top' don't you think? There are PUGs doing OPs all the time. If you particularly want to do 'progression', you can, if you're lucky, join up with a guild that does, without actually joining that guild.

And of course, there's lots of action in veteran GF, though admittedly MM GF is not as active.

[SoonerJBD]

That is a bit 'over the top' don't you think? There are PUGs doing OPs all the time. If you particularly want to do 'progression', you can, if you're lucky, join up with a guild that does, without actually joining that guild.

And of course, there's lots of action in veteran GF, though admittedly MM GF is not as active.

 

There really aren’t that many PUGs for raids, and doing them is a nightmare because the quality of those groups is so poor. Same goes for GF groups. Group finder flashpoints are a toxic mess. The only way to really do group content that isn’t frustrating to the point of making same people want to quit is through a guild. And again, there aren’t that many guilds on each server really doing regular raiding, even fewer doing true progression raiding. The biggest issue there is almost all of those guilds schedule their raids at certain peak times, and if those don’t work for you, you are out of luck. Some of the true raiding guilds have waiting lists for their prof teams. It simply isn’t easy to get into which is why a huge portion of the player base has never seen most of the raid content. There are a handful of raids that do get done fairly often or are easy enough that a PUG can manage. Not the case for a lot of others.

 

When the game first launched, this wasn’t the case. There were far more players and it was much easier to find competent people to play with in group content.

Edited August 5, 2022 by SoonerJBD

[Ardrossan]

When the game first launched, this wasn’t the case. There were far more players and it was much easier to find competent people to play with in group content.

 

lol.

 

1) There was no GF at launch.

 

2) Take a look through this glorious thread and then tell me how it was so much easier to find competent people in group content back in the day.

[Samcuu]

If video game companies could charge u a fee of $15 per month to play a single player game, they'd all be doing it. That's a business model that's bound to fail my dood. No, the only type of games that last 10+ years with ppl paying sub fees are social games like this and WoW ect.

[DWho]

If video game companies could charge u a fee of $15 per month to play a single player game, they'd all be doing it. That's a business model that's bound to fail my dood. No, the only type of games that last 10+ years with ppl paying sub fees are social games like this and WoW ect.

 

Times are changing. Just about all of the modern consoles now have a subscription service that allows you access to the games on their platform. Stop paying that access fee, and you lose access to those games. The days of having a hard copy (or even product IDs for downloadable content) of games that you can keep and give to others are going fast. Video games are going the streaming route just like movies did.

[Anysao]

No, I disagree. I also primarily play for story, but group content is also story. Both should exist.

 

Shadow of Revan did it excellently- the final boss can be done in an Ops group or as a single-player series of missions.

 

I feel that more content should be developed this way. I am consistently surprised Echoes of Oblivion didn’t feature a similar Operation option.

 

Both. There should be both. And they should compliment one another.

[Samcuu]

Times are changing. Just about all of the modern consoles now have a subscription service that allows you access to the games on their platform. Stop paying that access fee, and you lose access to those games. The days of having a hard copy (or even product IDs for downloadable content) of games that you can keep and give to others are going fast. Video games are going the streaming route just like movies did.

 

Um okay? That's a great comment....that had absolutely nothing to do with my statement.

[SoonerJBD]

lol.

 

1) There was no GF at launch.

 

2) Take a look through this glorious thread and then tell me how it was so much easier to find competent people in group content back in the day.

 

I was there at launch. It was much more easy to find competent people for group content even without a group finder. Because there were tons more players, and the level of toxic wasn’t what it is now. Back then, because you actually had to look for a group without the ease of GF, it meant something if you got kicked. Now people just behave like total *******es because if they get booted, they simply requeue.

[SoonerJBD]

No, I disagree. I also primarily play for story, but group content is also story. Both should exist.

 

Shadow of Revan did it excellently- the final boss can be done in an Ops group or as a single-player series of missions.

 

I feel that more content should be developed this way. I am consistently surprised Echoes of Oblivion didn’t feature a similar Operation option.

 

Both. There should be both. And they should compliment one another.

 

The group content simply isn’t accessible for most players because the player base is too small. That is the problem. They gave up on attracting subscribers and now make all their money through the Cartel Market, so we are never going to get better content or enough subscribers to make raid content, especially the tougher raid content, truly accessible. You can only run it through guilds, and even most guilds aren’t doing it. If you can’t play at the most popular times when all the guild raids are scheduled, you are pretty well screwed.

[Khaleijo]

I was there at launch. It was much more easy to find competent people for group content even without a group finder. Because there were tons more players, and the level of toxic wasn’t what it is now. Back then, because you actually had to look for a group without the ease of GF, it meant something if you got kicked. Now people just behave like total *******es because if they get booted, they simply requeue.

 

Funny to draw comparison to the times when there was mainly a classic MMO and group oriented player base because the game while solo friendlier than others of the genre wasn't considered a solo game at all.

Also looking back the KotFE/ET time, it was already tried to focus solely on story and solo content. Consequence: the game almost tanked, (granted the odd payment system with how to unlock all that story permanently with one month of sub and the fact that the story suddenly was not even playable with a friend surely didn't help either) . So the third instalment of the story was scrapped and the devs returned to do group content too. Emphasis on too, because the story/solo part was not axed or something like that, it's still there and still is going to be developed, the balance simply was shifted back to bring group stuff too. Because that part is needed, solo and story alone aren't enough to keep the game running even with the CM, ranked PVP and operations also still are the only activities you actually really need an ongoing sub for to play.

 

To get more group players, group play has to play a better role during the levelling phase, not mandatory but half of the expansions stories we have by now are purely solo and can't be played together, not like the 1-50 game when only the class story was restricted and playing different classes you didn't really notice that at all. These days you'd have to do everything twice which isn't much fun to anyone enjoying to play together and the actual group interactions we had back then with the planetary arcs. Many have left because of that, many who if not regularly still occasionally would do various group activities.

 

Now about the issues of finding a regular raiding group fitting your needs, I only can say as someone who is guild lead and raid lead for almost the whole ten years I play Swtor, why don't you built one yourself? TH is one of the smaller servers due to the language, yet there still are many active guilds and raid groups. As far as I see it more than there were during the 5.x content draught or worse 4.x. The English speaking servers have a bigger player-base in general, from all over the world playing at all times.

Find other off peak hours players and form a group. Why complain about how GF being so toxic and impersonal because of the lazy one click required, when at the same time you apparently can't be bothered to form a group for what you want to do either?

Player skill declined, sure, because the levelling part of the game asks pretty much no level of skill at playing the game. It got a bit better since the comps were nerfed, but there was a long time when the game would essentially play itself while the player was making coffee or doing their laundry. So you can't really blame new players for not knowing stuff, you have to teach them in order to get ready for the more demanding content.

That is work though and often enough thankless, maybe half of the players will listen at least a bit and gradually get better. When it comes to teaching to raid the rate is even lower, but then that never was different even back in my WoW times (BC, Lichking and Cataclysm) we would recruit about ten to 15 newbies to maybe get one decent and reliable raid member.

Still, by teaching them and the way how you teach, you also have a direct impact on the level of toxicity too. If it's more normal for new players to get patient and decent explanations, it's more normal to listen to them and follow them and they also are more likely to say they are new because they don't have to expect to be kicked just for that alone.

But teaching is work, or better said, time that potentially goes off your maybe limited playtime, off your fun time. So many don't do it, but rush things, like NIM players speed running SM for TF, even if taken into that group a newbie learns absolutely nothing like that, the same with rather having only people with experience to get through the activity fast or only put people who already know the important stuff on the relevant positions and tell the others nothing about it.

That way though, the situation doesn't change. If everyone would share their knowledge a little bit and at times listen to others, the general skill level would rise again because more players would know more about the game. Doing mechanics even if you might be able to burn through them is part of that too, how can you expect someone to know mechanics to start into HC if what little is there in SM is ignored and often not even mentioned?

I really find it hilarious to see people complaining in general chat about a lack of groups for the more interesting Ops, who on the other hand at the same time do speed runs EV und KP all day or drive rounds around the fleet. That simply is not realising, you are part of the problem too. Because they could also built a group for something else but won't because of the risk of a wipe or that it takes longer because of explanations or that maybe they won't be able to finish it, so they rather don't start it at all but do something boring ad nauseam again or just nothing. The inexperienced players don't get a chance to see and learn new stuff either. Back at launch we didn't finish every FP or Ops either, sometimes the group simply wasn't good enough, so what? Without toxicity it usually is fun nonetheless, and the level of toxic behaviour is our own responsibility.

 

All in all, the less people are doing the patient teaching and explaining, the more clueless people run around out there and the more work it is for those who still try to help players by explaining stuff. Because yes, there are good guides out there, but those often start at a level new players simply aren't at yet. They often already require quite a bit of knowledge about the game and given that most veterans didn't learn everything from guide sites either, but got many explanations in person to person contact, it's a bit odd to expect today's newbies to catch up solely by getting a guide linked.

 

Teaching newer players is work, just as leading a guild is work and time consuming or organising a raid group is. The better run and more active, the more effort is involved behind the scenes.

Naturally not everyone has time for that, but in my experience many of those who do scream the loudest for not finding people to play with, do not even attempt to better the situation. They expect ready made groups at their login, they just need to join and breeze through what ever content. But they themselves wouldn't ever start a group for even EV SM, nor would they log into a character that fills a missing role or bother to explain stuff to others in a constructive way. They would not start with HC and work up their way to NIM together with a group either but only join an already ready made guild/group. Again not everyone has that time but someone still has to put the time and effort into it or there simply isn't a guild or group.

I can understand of course that long term veterans aren't keen to re-progress old stuff on a level they already surpassed, but without doing it at least occasionally, one day without anyone doing the introduction for new raiders or group players in the various levels, there simply will be no players left on your level.To keep a healthy level of upcoming raiders and group players someone has to built them up, that is the base work and the reason why successful guild/groups have things like raiding academy or FP evenings and the likes. If everyone just says, yes of course we want new capable raiders/players but nobody is doing anything for ensuring that, well tough luck, of course you'll run out of players to play with at one point.

So maybe start small with politely explaining a boss or class mechanic in a FP next time, instead of ignoring it, that's something everyone should be able to do and is a good start to create a positive grouping environment. Form a group even if you don't get far, next time you might get further and usually at least one or two players in the group will have learned something out of the experience and get better.

 

In the end though in my opinion the main issue is just lack of content in general, solo, small group, large group, there just comes too little and too slow. (and in the recent years buggy ... ) people get bored and leave, not all of them come back when new content is released.

[SoonerJBD]

Funny to draw comparison to the times when there was mainly a classic MMO and group oriented player base because the game while solo friendlier than others of the genre wasn't considered a solo game at all.

Also looking back the KotFE/ET time, it was already tried to focus solely on story and solo content. Consequence: the game almost tanked, (granted the odd payment system with how to unlock all that story permanently with one month of sub and the fact that the story suddenly was not even playable with a friend surely didn't help either) . So the third instalment of the story was scrapped and the devs returned to do group content too. Emphasis on too, because the story/solo part was not axed or something like that, it's still there and still is going to be developed, the balance simply was shifted back to bring group stuff too. Because that part is needed, solo and story alone aren't enough to keep the game running even with the CM, ranked PVP and operations also still are the only activities you actually really need an ongoing sub for to play.

 

To get more group players, group play has to play a better role during the levelling phase, not mandatory but half of the expansions stories we have by now are purely solo and can't be played together, not like the 1-50 game when only the class story was restricted and playing different classes you didn't really notice that at all. These days you'd have to do everything twice which isn't much fun to anyone enjoying to play together and the actual group interactions we had back then with the planetary arcs. Many have left because of that, many who if not regularly still occasionally would do various group activities.

 

Now about the issues of finding a regular raiding group fitting your needs, I only can say as someone who is guild lead and raid lead for almost the whole ten years I play Swtor, why don't you built one yourself? TH is one of the smaller servers due to the language, yet there still are many active guilds and raid groups. As far as I see it more than there were during the 5.x content draught or worse 4.x. The English speaking servers have a bigger player-base in general, from all over the world playing at all times.

Find other off peak hours players and form a group. Why complain about how GF being so toxic and impersonal because of the lazy one click required, when at the same time you apparently can't be bothered to form a group for what you want to do either?

Player skill declined, sure, because the levelling part of the game asks pretty much no level of skill at playing the game. It got a bit better since the comps were nerfed, but there was a long time when the game would essentially play itself while the player was making coffee or doing their laundry. So you can't really blame new players for not knowing stuff, you have to teach them in order to get ready for the more demanding content.

That is work though and often enough thankless, maybe half of the players will listen at least a bit and gradually get better. When it comes to teaching to raid the rate is even lower, but then that never was different even back in my WoW times (BC, Lichking and Cataclysm) we would recruit about ten to 15 newbies to maybe get one decent and reliable raid member.

Still, by teaching them and the way how you teach, you also have a direct impact on the level of toxicity too. If it's more normal for new players to get patient and decent explanations, it's more normal to listen to them and follow them and they also are more likely to say they are new because they don't have to expect to be kicked just for that alone.

But teaching is work, or better said, time that potentially goes off your maybe limited playtime, off your fun time. So many don't do it, but rush things, like NIM players speed running SM for TF, even if taken into that group a newbie learns absolutely nothing like that, the same with rather having only people with experience to get through the activity fast or only put people who already know the important stuff on the relevant positions and tell the others nothing about it.

That way though, the situation doesn't change. If everyone would share their knowledge a little bit and at times listen to others, the general skill level would rise again because more players would know more about the game. Doing mechanics even if you might be able to burn through them is part of that too, how can you expect someone to know mechanics to start into HC if what little is there in SM is ignored and often not even mentioned?

I really find it hilarious to see people complaining in general chat about a lack of groups for the more interesting Ops, who on the other hand at the same time do speed runs EV und KP all day or drive rounds around the fleet. That simply is not realising, you are part of the problem too. Because they could also built a group for something else but won't because of the risk of a wipe or that it takes longer because of explanations or that maybe they won't be able to finish it, so they rather don't start it at all but do something boring ad nauseam again or just nothing. The inexperienced players don't get a chance to see and learn new stuff either. Back at launch we didn't finish every FP or Ops either, sometimes the group simply wasn't good enough, so what? Without toxicity it usually is fun nonetheless, and the level of toxic behaviour is our own responsibility.

 

All in all, the less people are doing the patient teaching and explaining, the more clueless people run around out there and the more work it is for those who still try to help players by explaining stuff. Because yes, there are good guides out there, but those often start at a level new players simply aren't at yet. They often already require quite a bit of knowledge about the game and given that most veterans didn't learn everything from guide sites either, but got many explanations in person to person contact, it's a bit odd to expect today's newbies to catch up solely by getting a guide linked.

 

Teaching newer players is work, just as leading a guild is work and time consuming or organising a raid group is. The better run and more active, the more effort is involved behind the scenes.

Naturally not everyone has time for that, but in my experience many of those who do scream the loudest for not finding people to play with, do not even attempt to better the situation. They expect ready made groups at their login, they just need to join and breeze through what ever content. But they themselves wouldn't ever start a group for even EV SM, nor would they log into a character that fills a missing role or bother to explain stuff to others in a constructive way. They would not start with HC and work up their way to NIM together with a group either but only join an already ready made guild/group. Again not everyone has that time but someone still has to put the time and effort into it or there simply isn't a guild or group.

I can understand of course that long term veterans aren't keen to re-progress old stuff on a level they already surpassed, but without doing it at least occasionally, one day without anyone doing the introduction for new raiders or group players in the various levels, there simply will be no players left on your level.To keep a healthy level of upcoming raiders and group players someone has to built them up, that is the base work and the reason why successful guild/groups have things like raiding academy or FP evenings and the likes. If everyone just says, yes of course we want new capable raiders/players but nobody is doing anything for ensuring that, well tough luck, of course you'll run out of players to play with at one point.

So maybe start small with politely explaining a boss or class mechanic in a FP next time, instead of ignoring it, that's something everyone should be able to do and is a good start to create a positive grouping environment. Form a group even if you don't get far, next time you might get further and usually at least one or two players in the group will have learned something out of the experience and get better.

 

In the end though in my opinion the main issue is just lack of content in general, solo, small group, large group, there just comes too little and too slow. (and in the recent years buggy ... ) people get bored and leave, not all of them come back when new content is released.

 

TL/DR

 

I skimmed and saw something suggesting I build my own guild and raid team. No. I have a life. People should be able to play the game without devoting that kind of time to it. You should be able to come online, find a group without too much hassle and run a raid. That just doesn’t happen because there aren’t enough players.

Edited August 6, 2022 by SoonerJBD

[Xhuuyaa]

I can understand of course that long term veterans aren't keen to re-progress old stuff on a level they already surpassed, but without doing it at least occasionally, one day without anyone doing the introduction for new raiders or group players in the various levels, there simply will be no players left on your level.

 

Thats not on point. With 7.0

- all classes were weakened

- many classes lost skills players love and use

- some of players favorite classes were no more able to perform in higher content (ie IO merc)

- some importent things for higher content like crafting were completely missing (new augments, adrenals, medpacks?)

- and on top of that they put a horrible and complicated, but foremost grindy new gearing system

 

Many in my guild asks; why should we gear up for month to progress the old containt we could play last weak without problems again? And there is no good answer for that. Nothing new was added to justify this. So they left.

 

Even now, the apologist will say "but this is the case in every mmo" - and yeah, exactly thats not. You're not getting 5 levels up only to find yourself significant weaker than before. Thats not progression but regression.

Not even the new raid work like MMOs do. Normaly you do old - now a bit harder stuff - to get the abilities and gear to do the new - real hard - content.

But SWTOR you have to run ONE new OP over an over again to get the gear that enables you to do the things you've done a year ago. It's like a bottleneck to... OLD content? Its a reversed system.