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Juggernauts useless in ranked pvp


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Posted (edited)

Juggernauts as a whole are completely useless in both group ranked and solo ranked pvp. Solo ranked right now has a massive stealth meta. Since juggernauts have no stealth mechanics, low survivability and less mobility than those stealth classes, the stealth classes just easily tunnel juggernauts through their dcds. The only option is to kite, and try to live for a minute and a half to buy your team time to get a kill. Meanwhile every other class is better at kiting and surviving than a juggernaut. In group ranked, juggernauts get outlived by classes that can afford to stand out of cleave and offheal like operatives and pts. Rage juggernauts do not have single target burst that is proportionate to their lack of team utility, and the survivability for all 3 specs is too low to warrant bringing them on a team.

If juggernauts are going to be worth playing at all in ranked pvp, they need the old version of grit teeth built into their kit.

Edited by Llacertus
Posted
Juggernauts as a whole are completely useless in both group ranked and solo ranked pvp. Solo ranked right now has a massive stealth meta. Since juggernauts have no stealth mechanics, low survivability and less mobility than those stealth classes, the stealth classes just easily tunnel juggernauts through their dcds. The only option is to kite, and try to live for a minute and a half to buy your team time to get a kill. Meanwhile every other class is better at kiting and surviving than a juggernaut. In group ranked, juggernauts get outlived by classes that can afford to stand out of cleave and offheal like operatives and pts. Rage juggernauts do not have single target burst that is proportionate to their lack of team utility, and the survivability for all 3 specs is too low to warrant bringing them on a team.

If juggernauts are going to be worth playing at all in ranked pvp, they need the old version of grit teeth built into their kit.

 

 

Ranked arena will always have a stealth meta. Its why most arena juggs were skank tanks. Its also why arena is a terrible format to do your ranked play in.

Posted (edited)

Not only juggs man,but mercs,snipers and pt. I play mostly sniper in solo ranked and most of the times all I can do is kit while the rest of my team do the job,and sometimes when the pressure isnt that great on me,I can start dpsing ppl. Its not a jugg or a particular class problem,it is the system of solo ranked. Like it was said b4,solo ranked will always have a stealth meta until they do something about the stealth out. Imo,they should make us unable to quit combat while inside arenas,so stealth classes wouldnt be able to stealth out and heal to full 50 times a match. that would balance things,but I doubt it will ever happen,so either u stop doing solo if its not fun for u,or u just try to play the system like I try to do now. Oh,and u can always do what 99% do,and play a meta class in solo,ofc.

:)

Edited by DougTheNoob
Posted
Ranked arena will always have a stealth meta. Its why most arena juggs were skank tanks. Its also why arena is a terrible format to do your ranked play in.

 

Yep, just in 4.X when the meta was PTs. Everyone knows PT is secretly a stealth class.

 

Or in 5.X when it was all about snipers, mercs and maras. All three are stealth classes again.

 

And 6.X when it was PTs, jugg skanks, lightning sorcs, maras with force bound armor. Come on BW, can't you stop giving stealth so much attention? I mean 6.X sin was only nerfed 5 times into the ground, and had a lower leaderboard percentage than everyone else. BW clearly gave stealth too much there.

 

Lol, ok seriously, the game is still in beta, the season hasn't even started, the pvp update is still a long ways away and people are already whining about nonsense because assassin gets to be close to the top once in ... what 8 years now?

Posted
Ranked arena will always have a stealth meta. Its why most arena juggs were skank tanks. Its also why arena is a terrible format to do your ranked play in.

 

Yeah, even in ranked BGs objective players would lose. Jugg tank = stealth class. GG.

Posted
Not only juggs man,but mercs,snipers and pt. I play mostly sniper in solo ranked and most of the times all I can do is kit while the rest of my team do the job,and sometimes when the pressure isnt that great on me,I can start dpsing ppl.

 

So what is the problem exactly? As long as you have the tools to do your job, your class is completely viable. Sniper is not in the best place right now, I admit, but you have all the tools you need to properly contribute to your team, especially in arena's like the mandalorian battle arena and catwalk. You think when I am chosen to be first target on my lethality operative I don't have to kite? Of course I do. And I don't have a get out of jail walk, hyper speed, CC immunity, KBs, roots for days, troll roll or god mode to help me.

 

Its not a jugg or a particular class problem,it is the system of solo ranked. Like it was said b4,solo ranked will always have a stealth meta until they do something about the stealth out.

 

Yeah just like 4.X, where the stealth PT was the meta. Or in 5.X where stealth sniper and merc were the meta. Or 6.X where stealth PT, force bound mara, force bound jugg skank, lightning sorc, merc were the meta. All stealth classes of course. And right now, look how meta concealment op and hatred sin are. you can't turn around without seeing one. Oh wait... they're not? Concealment, hatred, carnage and darkness are actually pretty bad in PvP? I guess, that means its not the "stealth" that is making deception, lethality and fury meta, but a combination of talents that they have that fits this meta more than others?

 

Also, deception goes into the trash once a tank or tank/heals is introduced. Guess the stealth stops working in those cases?

 

Imo,they should make us unable to quit combat while inside arenas,so stealth classes wouldnt be able to stealth out and heal to full 50 times a match. that would balance things,but I doubt it will ever happen,so either u stop doing solo if its not fun for u,or u just try to play the system like I try to do now.

 

stealth out healing is part of their tool kit. If it is taken away, it needs to be replaced with something else. And even if it is not, nothing will balanced, the meta will just move onto something else (probably PT again). Also it won't do anything for lethality since they don't need to stealth/heal, they can just heal themselves once they found safety. I end up having to do it because the system sometimes refuses to take me out of combat. Doesn't take that long and pads my numbers.

 

Oh,and u can always do what 99% do,and play a meta class in solo,ofc.

:)

 

Yeah, play all the classes, so you can always play what is viable. That's life in an mmo. Today your class is on top, tomorrow it is on the bottom. If you know how to play all the classes and learn to appreciate all the classes for what they can do, you can always have a good time. If not, you will be doomed to continue whining.

Posted

Its harder to play any non-stealth class (mara included) then in previous seasons HOWEVER juggs still have place in solo Q and in team R.

 

As a Jugg DPS in solo q you are focused first (if there is no sniper) and your only focus should not be killing etc you should go into fight as a first and focus agreed target, take at least 700k damage and create oportunities for your teammates. As a Jugg you have essentially 2.5 life (increasing if you have offheals) and you should use it - if you are dying and your team doesn't kill other player and start getting into next its not a problem with you.

 

When you aren't a second target - you should peel for your mate and keeping pushing ppl and doing big AoE damage (a bit chasing if you can).

 

Essentially, Jugg is still viable and having played a ton of ranked games this pre-season I can say I saw exceptional juggs which are almost immortal when focused and juggs that die taking less damage then sniper (sniper max without offheals and reg is 460k). In this patch, its more important to knowing your role than ever. I saw multiple matches with all sin, mara and op teams which failed against team with mixed classes. Synergies are the key nowadays.

Posted (edited)
Always thought 3v3 would be better than 4v4, Decep boys are happy tho can stun u and probably force ed on the first go. Either trinket then try and blade blitz but you know if u do u gonna get stunned again and with the server lag i never get the blade blitz off anymore. Many games i played the other night had 3 decep sin and 1 leth op. You get stunned every go and after the second you pretty much ded. Completely useless is right when the enemy has unlimited stuns and your team has to babysit you everytime. I switched to merc after a few rounds was alot better against stealth since u can net and cc. But with the sync q and match making system the problems of arena are deff amplified. Can hope for the revamp to bring changes but i doubt it kekw.:D Edited by Skummy
Posted
So what is the problem exactly? As long as you have the tools to do your job, your class is completely viable. Sniper is not in the best place right now, I admit, but you have all the tools you need to properly contribute to your team, especially in arena's like the mandalorian battle arena and catwalk. You think when I am chosen to be first target on my lethality operative I don't have to kite? Of course I do. And I don't have a get out of jail walk, hyper speed, CC immunity, KBs, roots for days, troll roll or god mode to help me.

 

 

 

Yeah just like 4.X, where the stealth PT was the meta. Or in 5.X where stealth sniper and merc were the meta. Or 6.X where stealth PT, force bound mara, force bound jugg skank, lightning sorc, merc were the meta. All stealth classes of course. And right now, look how meta concealment op and hatred sin are. you can't turn around without seeing one. Oh wait... they're not? Concealment, hatred, carnage and darkness are actually pretty bad in PvP? I guess, that means its not the "stealth" that is making deception, lethality and fury meta, but a combination of talents that they have that fits this meta more than others?

 

Also, deception goes into the trash once a tank or tank/heals is introduced. Guess the stealth stops working in those cases?

 

 

 

stealth out healing is part of their tool kit. If it is taken away, it needs to be replaced with something else. And even if it is not, nothing will balanced, the meta will just move onto something else (probably PT again). Also it won't do anything for lethality since they don't need to stealth/heal, they can just heal themselves once they found safety. I end up having to do it because the system sometimes refuses to take me out of combat. Doesn't take that long and pads my numbers.

 

 

 

Yeah, play all the classes, so you can always play what is viable. That's life in an mmo. Today your class is on top, tomorrow it is on the bottom. If you know how to play all the classes and learn to appreciate all the classes for what they can do, you can always have a good time. If not, you will be doomed to continue whining.

 

Sorry man,but Pt wasnt meta in solo q. It was and still is meta in group ranked,but we are talking about solo here. Even now that they have slightly better survivablity,they stil have pretty much one job: try to dps as much as they can b4 they die,and maybe kill someone b4 they do. Meanwhile,any avarage player playing a stealth class can do a lot better in solo. I dont play pt,but I really dont think they are in a good place in solo ranked atm. The meta is clearly leth-decep-fury,and anyone trying to play something diff than that gonna have a hard time and probably wont have to much fun doin it. Maybe sorcs can compete too,ofc,but even them have problems in a stealth meta. And no,snipers arent viable AT ALL in solo right now. I play sniper bcos I like to play sniper and thats it.

Posted
My issue with tanking right now is that, tanks are becoming countered by dps classes. The meta for group ranked dps right now is pyro leth, not just because of the absurd amount of utility both classes have. Its because both specs are tank killers. Most of the time the match comes down to whichever tank has better dcd management or gets better offheals. Any tank thats not a pt tank just loses the match because the others cant survive. These specs are completely circumventing a core gameplay mechanic relying on tanks actually being able to withstand damage.
Posted
Juggernauts as a whole are completely useless in both group ranked and solo ranked pvp. Solo ranked right now has a massive stealth meta. Since juggernauts have no stealth mechanics, low survivability and less mobility than those stealth classes, the stealth classes just easily tunnel juggernauts through their dcds. The only option is to kite, and try to live for a minute and a half to buy your team time to get a kill. Meanwhile every other class is better at kiting and surviving than a juggernaut. In group ranked, juggernauts get outlived by classes that can afford to stand out of cleave and offheal like operatives and pts. Rage juggernauts do not have single target burst that is proportionate to their lack of team utility, and the survivability for all 3 specs is too low to warrant bringing them on a team.

If juggernauts are going to be worth playing at all in ranked pvp, they need the old version of grit teeth built into their kit.

 

At least in solos you can still play SOME of the classes unlike TR with its 2 class entry requirement. The devs are probably pvping even less then they ever have. What's less then zero? Is it possible for them to play negative PVP because that's what they are playing.

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