Why OPS shouldnt give the best gear.

[ZionHalcyon]

WOW you like to brag about how good you are. I'm playing the PTS right now taking a minute's break. So far (for what I am testing) no major problems.

 

But you still ignore the critical point of this whole thread... Most of us don't care about the Item Rating number. We care about how that number is distributed! You can have you ultimate 334 gear. I don't care. I do care that my 318 gear is meant for a tank not a DPS or healer!

 

If that's the case, then they need to balance the 318 better.

 

But man the way you phrase it makes you sound like you just want to be angry for the sake of being angry, and are just struggling to walk the overwrought emotional tone back...

[JakRoanin]

Stop projecting, you like when people get angry so you can mock them. I'm not angry at all. Frustrated at your inability to listen yes, but not angry. If you really are on the PTS you would know that the 318 gear is awful for healers and DPS. But you won't even discuss the318 is exactly the same as 318. You are the one who refuses to see any other person's viewpoint.

[ZionHalcyon]

Stop projecting, you like when people get angry so you can mock them. I'm not angry at all. Frustrated at your inability to listen yes, but not angry. If you really are on the PTS you would know that the 318 gear is awful for healers and DPS. But you won't even discuss the318 is exactly the same as 318. You are the one who refuses to see any other person's viewpoint.

 

Oh, I think I've been more than willing to engage in the other side's view point. Like if what you are saying is true, then that is an issue that the blue 318 is the same as the green 318.

 

But just because I want to get to the heart of it and am willing to engage in those points, does not mean I also have to accept the baseless emotional flailing that goes along with it.

[JakRoanin]

Oh, I think I've been more than willing to engage in the other side's view point. Like if what you are saying is true, then that is an issue that the blue 318 is the same as the green 318.

 

If what I am saying is true??? You don't have to take my word for it test it yourself.

 

I feel sorry for you though, it must be exhausting to distain others all the time.

[ceryxp]

Stop projecting, you like when people get angry so you can mock them. I'm not angry at all. Frustrated at your inability to listen yes, but not angry. If you really are on the PTS you would know that the 318 gear is awful for healers and DPS. But you won't even discuss the318 is exactly the same as 318. You are the one who refuses to see any other person's viewpoint.

 

I understand your point and share in your frustration, but the reality is that 318 gear will be meaningless. Specifically 308-318 will be meaningless. The new floor for level 80 itemization is 320, which will start to drop when you get to level 80. 308-318 gear are the gear ratings that will drop whilst levelling from 75 to 80.

 

Now, that said, absolutely, green 320 gear, and possibly all the way up to green 326 gear, will suck worse than Mega Maid.

[JakRoanin]

Question how do you link a Steam Screenshot to the threads?

[ceryxp]

Question how do you link a Steam Screenshot to the threads?

 

You need to upload the image to a third-party image hosting site, such as https://imgur.com/, and then post the link to the image.

[ZionHalcyon]

I understand your point and share in your frustration, but the reality is that 318 gear will be meaningless. Specifically 308-318 will be meaningless. The new floor for level 80 itemization is 320, which will start to drop when you get to level 80. 308-318 gear are the gear ratings that will drop whilst levelling from 75 to 80.

 

Now, that said, absolutely, green 320 gear, and possibly all the way up to green 326 gear, will suck worse than Mega Maid.

 

You think at this point though we can stop conflating the gearing issue with Ops getting a higher tier of gear?

 

If the developers aren't living up to their own word, by all means keep them accountable. But the way isn't to then punish other groups of players you feel are making out more favorable than you are (generally speaking - not meaning you specifically). By doing that, you only end up alienating potential allies, and it just ends up coming off as rank jealousy, even if the root cause is legitimate.

 

I've seen that show before. Its that show, and the developers' willingness to cater to it, that is the real reason SWG ended up failing and got torn apart piece by piece since it launched. The CU and NGE were just ham-fisted attempts at fixing the damage already done...

Edited December 13, 2021 by ZionHalcyon

[ceryxp]

You think at this point though we can stop conflating the gearing issue with Ops getting a higher tier of gear?

 

I think you have me confused with someone else.

 

My only issue with raiders, or, specifically, with the people on the forums who are defending 7.0's itemization scheme are the people who persist in chanting "solo players do not need BiS" whilst completely misrepresenting 7.0's itemization and what it will mean for solo players.

[JakRoanin]

You think at this point though we can stop conflating the gearing issue with Ops getting a higher tier of gear?.

 

What do you think people like me have been trying to say? We've only said it a million times but people like you refuse to see it. We are being given garbage not just lower numbers but bad stats period!

 

Since I can't upload the screenshots I took I'll just copy down the numbers...

 

This one is Lame Heals Corruption Sorc I made it got to the fleet to get to 80 and full 318 these are his stats:

 

Mastery :12828

Endurance: 17869

Power : 6412

Critical: 1395

Alacrity: 3327

Accuracy: 0

Defense: 0

Absorb: 0

Sheild: 0

Presence: 1305

 

This is what a healer starts with I don't heal ever but I made this thing just to take the screenshot, and even I know it's utterly insulting to people who heal 0 Accuracy!

 

And poor healer can do nothing about it!

 

But of course, you'll say I'm too emotional. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Shwarzchild]

What do you think people like me have been trying to say? We've only said it a million times but people like you refuse to see it. We are being given garbage not just lower numbers but bad stats period!

 

Since I can't upload the screenshots I took I'll just copy down the numbers...

 

This one is Lame Heals Corruption Sorc I made it got to the fleet to get to 80 and full 318 these are his stats:

 

Mastery :12828

Endurance: 17869

Power : 6412

Critical: 1395

Alacrity: 3327

Accuracy: 0

Defense: 0

Absorb: 0

Sheild: 0

Presence: 1305

 

This is what a healer starts with I don't heal ever but I made this thing just to take the screenshot, and even I know it's utterly insulting to people who heal 0 Accuracy!

 

And poor healer can do nothing about it!

 

But of course, you'll say I'm too emotional. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

Healers do not use any Accuracy. So yes, you're going to qualify for the overly emotional.

 

I do think that gear, stat wise, is pretty questionable though. It's the same type of higher mastery higher endurance gear that they always seem to push out. It's junk compared to my 306 set. But...it's not junk because it has 0 accuracy

Edited December 14, 2021 by Shwarzchild

[JakRoanin]

Healers do not use any Accuracy.

 

All the guides I've seen say its important, but I bow to your superior knowledge. I do know the Alacrity is ridiculously low and so is the power and crit.

[Shwarzchild]

All the guides I've seen say its important, but I bow to your superior knowledge. I do know the Alacrity is ridiculously low and so is the power and crit.

 

No, the Crit is actualy low. So for the 1.3 GCD you'd have somewhere in the realm of 3200 alacrity. The medium alacrity 1.4 high crit is like 2200 alacrity. That gear is low on power. High on Mastery and Endurance. And...high on alacrity it seems.

 

Edit: Either way, you are not wrong for saying the gear is questionable at best. Me looking at the exactness of your argument is kind of splitting hairs and I'm sorry to do it.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Shwarzchild

[JakRoanin]

No, the Crit is actualy low. So for the 1.3 GCD you'd have somewhere in the realm of 3200 alacrity. The medium alacrity 1.4 high crit is like 2200 alacrity. That gear is low on power. High on Mastery and Endurance. And...high on alacrity it seems.

 

Edit: Either way, you are not wrong for saying the gear is questionable at best. Me looking at the exactness of your argument is kind of splitting hairs and I'm sorry to do it.

 

Please don't be sorry I never heal but I created Lame Heals on the PTS to prove a point. I thought if I used the DPS specs that the argument would be "stop whining the DPS is the easiest sepc in the game.

[klizilii]

You lost me at the concept of saying only the best PvP players should have the best gear

[ralphieceaser]

You lost me at the concept of saying only the best PvP players should have the best gear

That was an example of what would happen if we were to follow the raider logic of "the hardest content should have the best rewards and everything else should have inferior rewards"

 

By that logic ranked pvp would have the best loot while raid would have inferior loot since pve by default will always be easier than pvp.

 

And everyone who has been playing mmorpgs for a while has witnessed how raiders acted when pvp ended up unintentionally have some Bis pieces of loot, hint: they didnt like it, showing how their argument was just an excuse for them to keep having the best loot at the expense of everyone else.

[JakRoanin]

Well now that's over, I'll post the PTS stats for my test DPS...

 

Mastery:12828

Endurance: 18405

Power: 6412

Critical: 2862

Alacrity: 930

Accuracy: 930

 

The rest is n/a

 

For a DPS this is CRAP!

[Shwarzchild]

Well now that's over, I'll post the PTS stats for my test DPS...

 

Mastery:12828

Endurance: 18405

Power: 6412

Critical: 2862

Alacrity: 930

Accuracy: 930

 

The rest is n/a

 

For a DPS this is CRAP!

 

When you look at your character screen what does the Accuracy percentage say? And that's for the full green set of 318 gear? Is there blue and purple sets of 318? Or is it green 318, blue 324, purple 330?

[JakRoanin]

When you look at your character screen what does the Accuracy percentage say? And that's for the full green set of 318 gear? Is there blue and purple sets of 318? Or is it green 318, blue 324, purple 330?

 

They don't have percentages on the PTS sheet yet. I'm sorry I can't provide more detail. From what I have heard the 318 gear is the same and no Artifact gear will be available at all except through the new OP

[ceryxp]

If the stat formulas have not changed with 7.0 (and I mathed correctly) then one would need:

 

Alacrity (with no other buffs):

• 1293 for 1.4s GCD
  
• 3418 for 1.3s GCD
  
• 8520 for 1.2s GCD
  

 

Accuracy:

• 1696 for 9% (companion buff would push that to 10%)
  

 

That means that, completely forgoing any crit, one would need a minimum of 2990 for tertiary stats to hit 110% accuracy and 1.4s GCD. JakRonin's two stat samples both have tertiary budgets of 4722 points.

 

Here are how JakRonin's numbers convert to percentages (if the formulas are unchanged) The percentage accounts for other factors such as Mastery's effect on Crit and buffs.

 

Heal set:

Critical: 1395 -- 33.22% chance, 60.76 multiplier

Alacrity: 3327 -- 15.10% (short of 1.3s GCD, but close enough to get there with an augment)

Accuracy: 0 -- 101% (base accuracy)

 

DPS set:

Critical: 2862 -- 40.07% chance, 67.61 multiplier

Alacrity: 930 -- 5.33% (363 points short of 1.4s GCD)

Accuracy: 930 -- 106.33% (766 short of 110% accuracy)

[Shwarzchild]

If the stat formulas have not changed with 7.0 (and I mathed correctly) then one would need:

 

Alacrity (with no other buffs):

• 1293 for 1.4s GCD
  
• 3418 for 1.3s GCD
  
• 8520 for 1.2s GCD
  

 

Accuracy:

• 1696 for 9% (companion buff would push that to 10%)
  

 

That means that, completely forgoing any crit, one would need a minimum of 2990 for tertiary stats to hit 110% accuracy and 1.4s GCD. JakRonin's two stat samples both have tertiary budgets of 4722 points.

 

Here are how JakRonin's numbers convert to percentages (if the formulas are unchanged) The percentage accounts for other factors such as Mastery's effect on Crit and buffs.

 

Heal set:

Critical: 1395 -- 33.22% chance, 60.76 multiplier

Alacrity: 3327 -- 15.10% (short of 1.3s GCD, but close enough to get there with an augment)

Accuracy: 0 -- 101% (base accuracy)

 

DPS set:

Critical: 2862 -- 40.07% chance, 67.61 multiplier

Alacrity: 930 -- 5.33% (363 points short of 1.4s GCD)

Accuracy: 930 -- 106.33% (766 short of 110% accuracy)

 

This is great, Thank you for the analysis.

 

Edit: After seeing this broken down am I close here:

 

Using an Accuracy stim, am I right to say you'd need:

Gold 77s: 4 accuracy augments

Purple 74s: 5 accuracy augments

Blue73s: 6 accuracy augments

 

Using a Verstaile stim:

Gold : 6 acc

Purple: 7 acc

Blue: 8 acc

 

It's clearly not min/maxed. But, my question has always centered on can I at least hit my tertiary goal for at the very least accuracy without having to go bonkers if what I put above this is close then that's not all that unreasonable. I wonder what parsing with that would yield.

 

Then after that my question would be centered around cadence of acquisition and what does the upgrade potential look like.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Shwarzchild

[JakRoanin]

If the stat formulas have not changed with 7.0 (and I mathed correctly) then one would need:

 

Alacrity (with no other buffs):

• 1293 for 1.4s GCD
  
• 3418 for 1.3s GCD
  
• 8520 for 1.2s GCD
  

 

Accuracy:

• 1696 for 9% (companion buff would push that to 10%)
  

 

That means that, completely forgoing any crit, one would need a minimum of 2990 for tertiary stats to hit 110% accuracy and 1.4s GCD. JakRonin's two stat samples both have tertiary budgets of 4722 points.

 

Here are how JakRonin's numbers convert to percentages (if the formulas are unchanged) The percentage accounts for other factors such as Mastery's effect on Crit and buffs.

 

Heal set:

Critical: 1395 -- 33.22% chance, 60.76 multiplier

Alacrity: 3327 -- 15.10% (short of 1.3s GCD, but close enough to get there with an augment)

Accuracy: 0 -- 101% (base accuracy)

 

DPS set:

Critical: 2862 -- 40.07% chance, 67.61 multiplier

Alacrity: 930 -- 5.33% (363 points short of 1.4s GCD)

Accuracy: 930 -- 106.33% (766 short of 110% accuracy)

 

Thanks I completely admit I'm hopeless with math and numbers. I do hope that my information does help somewhat. I still say it is garbage though.

[Shwarzchild]

Thanks I completely admit I'm hopeless with math and numbers. I do hope that my information does help somewhat. I still say it is garbage though.

 

You started a really fruitful little thing here. Keep the good stuff coming.

[Toraak]

They don't have percentages on the PTS sheet yet. I'm sorry I can't provide more detail. From what I have heard the 318 gear is the same and no Artifact gear will be available at all except through the new OP

 

Yes they do. Hit your C key to bring up the character sheet, on the left side just above the Dark/light symbol, click on Details.

 

Edit: It looks to me that the stat formula's have changed. You need about 2700 accuracy now to hit the 110%.

Edited December 14, 2021 by Toraak

[JakRoanin]

Yes they do. Hit your C key to bring up the character sheet, on the left side just above the Dark/light symbol, click on Details.

 

I have done that. That's where I got my numbers. But no breakdown of percentages maybe a bug?