Ulrah Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) I'm not the first to say this, but there is something of a compromise that I see as best type of system... BiS gear should be crafted BoE, but require unbound mats that only drop in the "hardest content". Everyone has access AND harder content is more rewarding. edit: it also makes crafting relevant Edited November 10, 2021 by Ulrah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 If you think the game was at it's lowest during Ossus, then either you are new or haven't been paying attention. Go back to the days after launch when all we had was Illum. That's the lowest point in the game's history. I think the loss of Pvp players is more complex than just the removal of expertise. Just ask the community. There is a laundry list of complaints and I would reduce their issues to just that. GSF, especially with the conquest focus, has also seen more interested players really trying it. An increase in players is going to bring good and bad. As to raids, that kind of peaked around the Dread Ops and has been dropping ever since. You saw a huge departure after the SoR ops and that long stretch. Kotfe really was the nail in that coffin. The community has been on the decline ever since really. Honestly it was never that big to begin with. I mean progression raiders. You have always folks that will hop into a story Op once the guides are out. Still even back in the old days, there has been a sizable portion of the game that will never touch group content. You say that " a game being heailthy doesnt just mean a bunch of players, swtor was never in risk of shutting down due to lack of players" So what is your definition of a healthy game? I am betting it involves specific tastes in MMOs. My stance is simple, a MMO without enough players is a dead game. Swtor's pop drops enough or it stops making enough money they will shut it down. It's in our best interest, if you like the game, to keep it a popular as possible. game was bad at the start cause u had no f2p option and no trial , after the f2p option was added i havent seen anything lower than ossus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codydmaan Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I'm not the first to say this, but there is something of a compromise that I see as best type of system... BiS gear should be crafted BoE, but require unbound mats that only drop in the "hardest content". Everyone has access AND harder content is more rewarding. edit: it also makes crafting relevant Bro for once crafting back in the BIS game would be epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I'm not the first to say this, but there is something of a compromise that I see as best type of system... BiS gear should be crafted BoE, but require unbound mats that only drop in the "hardest content". Everyone has access AND harder content is more rewarding. edit: it also makes crafting relevant but why would u want that when every path will have at least 334 and BiS will be 336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schlumpfine Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 you can in fact solo all MM fps currently If thats true give me a link to a Vid. I really curious now how to Solo one of the new MM FPs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimsReaper Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Your point was not lost on me. That's the price paid. And really, why does their character they want to gear up mean cutting ties? Why can't they have characters across multiple guilds? The game has legacy gearing now, which will allow sending the BiS gear across our legacy. Set bonuses are tied to Legendary items instead of gear sets and will be upgradable. I have two in a raiding guild, the rest are in my old one. I haven't cut ties or truly left just because my old one isn't doing content I want to do. Many guilds also bring in folks from other guilds and have shared progression. And yes, time must be spent. Once you leave the SM scene and move to HM/NiM, you are no longer casual. You don't do casual HM/NiM. You *need to learn the mechanics*, or you will be left out. That's how raiding works. With the tight timings and such, you run through training runs to learn the mechanics. This takes much time. Along the way you get gear. That's not "assinine', that's how these games are played. They must be able to work as a team to win. And the reward is gear that says "I did my part in this hard stuff and was rewarded with this." It's asinine because it forces players to waste time earning gear that will be of no use to them, since they are causal players they will most likely be getting gear playing solo which is supposed to be better than SM and equal to VM Ops. It's more efficient to allow multiple paths to 330. It's a win-win for everyone if you do. It makes it faster and easier for the hardcore raiders to get their max gear and it lets plays get the max gear so they can jump right into harder content. Hell, it even makes teaching them easier because now their only handicap to the team is their newness instead of newness and being undergeared. Locking progression behind only one path is terrible, it always has been always will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divinecynic Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 if ppl ignore the content because its group only they have no interest in playing an MMORPG its obvious what group content accomplishes multiple players playing together thats exactly what an MMORPG is Actually no it is not just that. It has solo content. If players are just doing solo content, they are just as vital to a MMO's ecosystem as group players. If this wasn't true no MMO would have solo content. Many of them have solo endgame content. The days of endgame for MMOs only being group is long past. It also definitely has not been Swtor's practice since the beginning. The major expansions always bring solo content and it is the focus. Even Legacy of the Sith is about the story way more than the group content. Swtor does bear the label MMORPG but it has always been the most solo friendly of all of them. It's strengths and draw have always centered around solo play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrah Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 but why would u want that when every path will have at least 334 and BiS will be 336 This is my last time responding to you because it's a waste of time... Go sit in your elitist chair and sip your elitist coffee while you watch some elitist television programming... or w/e, I don't care. You are embarrassing yourself, you just don't realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 If thats true give me a link to a Vid. I really curious now how to Solo one of the new MM FPs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desplain Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I think I'll cancel my sub. The new itemization is a disaster, period!:mad: Additionally I'm fed up with people (elitists) telling me what I need and what I don't need.:mad: I'm playging solo, fp, pvp and op, but I won't start doing any NIM! I'm too old for things like that and if I want to learn something I'll attend a school or in my case an university! By the way most of our guild members have started to rethink their sub, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divinecynic Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) game was bad at the start cause u had no f2p option and no trial , after the f2p option was added i havent seen anything lower than ossus I won't disagree f2p saved the game. The thing about Ossus was it was that bad. Better to say it wasn't stand out bad. It was just another example of sub for the story and leave. Iokath was like that too. Edited November 10, 2021 by divinecynic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 This is my last time responding to you because it's a waste of time... Go sit in your elitist chair and sip your elitist coffee while you watch some elitist television programming... or w/e, I don't care. You are embarrassing yourself, you just don't realize it. so thats your argument? all u can do is insult some1 online when they show you that you will have access to BiS gear? it was just be a TIMED exclusive to R4 ops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I think I'll cancel my sub. The new itemization is a disaster, period!:mad: Additionally I'm fed up with people (elitists) telling me what I need and what I don't need.:mad: I'm playging solo, fp, pvp and op, but I won't start doing any NIM! I'm too old for things like that and if I want to learn something I'll attend a school or in my case an university! By the way most of our guild members have started to rethink their sub, too. u can have BiS gear just by playing solo content its just a TIMED exclusive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimsReaper Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 This guy nailed it! Making harder content available to EVERYONE is the best way to get more people doing them, not by gating the content. That is what I am saying, just look at this season of Destiny 2, they have had more players than ever in that nightmare that is Trials of Osiris because they made changes that let casual players into it. Overnight it took a dying game mode and made it one of the most popular game modes. I don't know why so many people thing "Progression Raiding" is so good, its an old and outdated system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Actually no it is not just that. It has solo content. If players are just doing solo content, they are just as vital to a MMO's ecosystem as group players. If this wasn't true no MMO would have solo content. Many of them have solo endgame content. The days of endgame for MMOs only being group is long past. It also definitely has not been Swtor's practice since the beginning. The major expansions always bring solo content and it is the focus. Even Legacy of the Sith is about the story way more than the group content. Swtor does bear the label MMORPG but it has always been the most solo friendly of all of them. It's strengths and draw have always centered around solo play. never said u didnt need solo content, but if u only had solo content just make a single player game, the only reason they are adding BiS gear for all paths is because of how friendly this game is to solo players yet ppl still take it for granted. Most MMORPG's wont even give you access to BiS gear if you dont play the hardest content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) That is what I am saying, just look at this season of Destiny 2, they have had more players than ever in that nightmare that is Trials of Osiris because they made changes that let casual players into it. Overnight it took a dying game mode and made it one of the most popular game modes. I don't know why so many people thing "Progression Raiding" is so good, its an old and outdated system. if it was outdated the most successful MMORPG's would not keep using it you keep using destiny 2 when destiny 2 doesnt even have BiS gear Edited November 10, 2021 by ebinhovdloca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimsReaper Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 u can have BiS gear just by playing solo content its just a TIMED exclusive It will never be BiS, that is how the whole system works as Bioware has described it, only MM+ players will have access to the new highest level of gear. Every time they bump up the gear cap, they also bump up the max gear cap so as it stands anyone who isn't a raider will never truly have BiS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimsReaper Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 if it was outdated the most successful MMORPG's would not keep using it you keep using destiny 2 when destiny 2 doesnt even have BiS gear What are you talking about? It's called pinnacle gear, it's how you get the highest gear score, boost your light level all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 It will never be BiS, that is how the whole system works as Bioware has described it, only MM+ players will have access to the new highest level of gear. Every time they bump up the gear cap, they also bump up the max gear cap so as it stands anyone who isn't a raider will never truly have BiS. you clearly havent read the post 336 will be the higheeest gear in 7.0 modded gear will either be 334 and 336 or just 336 "Is the only way we can get moddable gear is if we can clear VM 80 OP? Is there no more min/maxing for players who can't clear the hardest content in game? No. Over time, as upgrade ceilings raise with new game updates, moddable gear will be accessible to all players. At 7.0’s launch there will be no moddable gear awarded above level 306" so if 330 gear will be the max on 7.0 launch and no1 will have modded gear that means modded gear will be 334 or 336 and every1 will eventualy have modded gear so worst case scneario every1 will have 334 and ppl that do MM R4 will have 336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 What are you talking about? It's called pinnacle gear, it's how you get the highest gear score, boost your light level all that jazz. gear cap and BiS are 2 different things, currently gear cap is 306 but there are multiple mods that are 306 that arent BiS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalBeast Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 MM Nathema - Date of the vid - May 12th 2018 Kind of old that new MM FP solo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebinhovdloca Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) MM Nathema - Date of the vid - May 12th 2018 Kind of old that new MM FP solo... if you go back and read the post that lead to this response one of the fps requested was nathema the other was copero, nathema was just the easy to find solo meridian solo enclave Edited November 10, 2021 by ebinhovdloca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theJudeAbides Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 There's far to much idiocy in this thread for me to respond to it all, but I'll say this: If you're upset because you're a solo player and won't be able to get the max level gear, you can complain all you like, but it won't change things. 7.0 was the anomaly, not the norm. For most of this game's history, if you wanted the best gear in the game, you had to do the hardest content in the game. And for the record, NIM Operations and Ranked PVP are the hardest content in the game. 99% of the population will likely never touch this content. It's the same for any other MMO. There needs to be an incentive to do the hardest content in the game, and that incentive is to get the best gear in the game. You want those bragging rights? You wanna strut around fleet wearing the best of the best? Earn it. If you think that's elitism, it's not. It's meritocracy. You have to earn what you want. Mindlessly running HM Hammer Station/Red Reaper for max level gear was broken, and everyone, including BW, knows it. Did you really feel like you accomplished something getting max level gear doing low-level content in 7.0? No, you didn't. It was a hollow, empty accomplishment, because you didn't really earn it. You want the max level gear? Join a guild, join a raid group. Start learning the HM mechanics first and work your way through the HM Ops. Your guild/group will help you with this. Learn your class/rotation. I see so many players blame their bad performance on their gear. 99.999% of the time, it's not their gear, it's their ability that's holding them back. You'll likely need to break old habits and do things in a way you haven't done before. It will be hard, but necessary. When your skill and knowledge of mechanics allows you to get through HM, then it's time to step up to NIM. And NIM will curb stomp your recently inflated ego back down to nothing... and that's when the real progression begins. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimsReaper Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 gear cap and BiS are 2 different things, currently gear cap is 306 but there are multiple mods that are 306 that arent BiS Comparatively yes it does have BiS. If you are a titan, you want Recovery, Resilience, and Strength, normally anyways. You also have mods that you make your build with, there are mods that you need to have and mods that just take up space. It's not 1 for 1 but the ideas and principles are the same. Especially since we are discussing max-level gear and not just BiS exclusively. The fact of the matter is, in D2 a casual player can get max level gear and partake in Max level content whereas with this update the same can't be said for SWTOR. As for your other comment a bit earlier, It works in FFXIV because their only end game is Raiding, as for WoW it's only in there because of Stockholm syndrome and the general aversion WoW players have to significant change. Either way man, you do you, even if what you do is shortsighted, I got better things to do than try to change your mind. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phaedruss Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 you clearly havent read the post 336 will be the higheeest gear in 7.0 modded gear will either be 334 and 336 or just 336 "Is the only way we can get moddable gear is if we can clear VM 80 OP? Is there no more min/maxing for players who can't clear the hardest content in game? No. Over time, as upgrade ceilings raise with new game updates, moddable gear will be accessible to all players. At 7.0’s launch there will be no moddable gear awarded above level 306" so if 330 gear will be the max on 7.0 launch and no1 will have modded gear that means modded gear will be 334 or 336 and every1 will eventualy have modded gear so worst case scneario every1 will have 334 and ppl that do MM R4 will have 336 'Clarification on gear ratings What is the max gear level? In the 7.0 release, players can upgrade up to level 330 via Legacy Master Mode Operations. The max obtainable gear level for all modes will rise over time throughout the expansion.' you clearly haven't read the post. /spit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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