7.0 DPS jugg = dumpster?

[Wolvel]

So dps jugg gets saber throw back, they've lost intercede AOE taunt(threat drop and 60% AOE DR) AND STILL have to pick from 3 dcds always used DCD's

 

As opposed to snipers and ops that have lost comparatively nothing as far as PvE is concerned.

 

How the **** is infiltrate a vital skill, how often have you said than god for infiltrate or else I would've died to boss looking at me or *********** flashbang or holotraverse. This is a joke choice, you pick holotraverse all of the time in raid.

 

Oh no snipers have to pick from hololocate/orbital/shield. Shocker this isnt even a choice you pick shield 99% of the time.

 

This is garbage.

[arunav]

Well, considering the Sent/Mara changes and now Operative/Sniper changes aren't nearly as bad, it's possible Guardian/Juggernaut will be revised somewhat.

 

On the other hand, expansion cycles have always favored certain class specs in the past, and it's possible a dps Guardian spec like Vigilance will simply be a bad choice in 7.x.

 

I'd like to think BW is still working on it such that it ends up in a place that feels more like the version of the class that's been mostly the same since 4.0, i.e. nearly 6 years ago. I'm in the camp that doesn't buy their defensive cooldown arms race argument - it doesn't make sense when almost all of the defensives are either 1.x or 2.x abilities. That would be saying the original class design for SWTOR, which was funded incredibly well and tested for PVE and PVP extensively, was completely wrong.

 

It's also possible the classes that have tanking options are undergoing changes that make their dps counterparts affected more than the classes that are dps-only or those that have healing counterparts. We'll see. Vigilance Guardian has been my second favorite dps spec for most of the game's life, and I basically wouldn't play it if the PTS version is what will be in 7.0.

Edited August 25, 2021 by arunav

[Galbsadi]

Well, considering the Sent/Mara changes and now Operative/Sniper changes aren't nearly as bad, it's possible Guardian/Juggernaut will be revised somewhat.

 

Two words for you: Sleep dart.

 

This is akin to WoW removing Sap from rogues. (Note: WoW has never removed Sap from rogues.)

 

Somehow, at least for Operative, BW has managed to do something so irrational that even ATVI wouldn't do it.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Galbsadi

[arunav]

Two words for you: Sleep dart.

 

This is akin to WoW removing Sap from rogues. (Note: WoW has never removed Sap from rogues.)

 

Well, I posted a thread about that yesterday here in the PTS forum. It doesn't make sense, given what BW's stated goals are so far.

 

The only thing I can think of is it's a change that's basically for PVP only and we haven't seen what the PVP redesign/meta is yet. 8v8 maps will have to work very differently than they have for most of a decade. I don't play ranked arenas any longer, but was under the impression sleep dart/mind maze aren't that reliable in that game mode, because you can't always get to the player you'd like to sleep before combat starts.

Edited August 27, 2021 by arunav

[Dyne-]

So dps jugg gets saber throw back, they've lost intercede AOE taunt(threat drop and 60% AOE DR) AND STILL have to pick from 3 dcds always used DCD's

 

As opposed to snipers and ops that have lost comparatively nothing as far as PvE is concerned.

 

How the **** is infiltrate a vital skill, how often have you said than god for infiltrate or else I would've died to boss looking at me or *********** flashbang or holotraverse. This is a joke choice, you pick holotraverse all of the time in raid.

 

Oh no snipers have to pick from hololocate/orbital/shield. Shocker this isnt even a choice you pick shield 99% of the time.

 

This is garbage.

 

I can say with certainty that no one on the dev team actually plays DPS Juggernaut at a high level. Removing intercede then forcing a choice between mad dash, saber reflect, and endure pain is a veritable death sentence to the class in PvP.

 

The viability of the class going forward is going to be based largely on what the other classes lose, and the extent of the damage buffs they get.

 

Word on the street is the devs main snipers / mercs, so don't expect them to lose much of anything. Most likely snipers will keep diversion, immunity to cc / leaps while entrenched, and that silly run speed boost they get when exiting cover. Mercs will probably lose their heal DCD, but gain an extra charge of hydraulic overrides and some damage.

 

Range classes in this game need something to shoot at. Even better when the enemy can't break line of sight or reflect incoming damage.

 

Expect PvP to be a joke for melee DPS after the patch hits, and as always keep your try hard pants on.

[xordevoreaux]

Two words for you: Sleep dart.

 

This is akin to WoW removing Sap from rogues. (Note: WoW has never removed Sap from rogues.)

 

Somehow, at least for Operative, BW has managed to do something so irrational that even ATVI wouldn't do it.

 

Dev notes update indicate sleep dart was never meant to be removed and will be restored when PTS comes back up.

One less thing to pop an artery over.

[arunav]

Dev notes update indicate sleep dart was never meant to be removed and will be restored when PTS comes back up.

One less thing to pop an artery over.

 

Few of us are "popping arteries". We're giving timely feedback on classes/specs such that they can be as close to what we've played for years, despite the new system trimming abilities.

 

The sooner in the process you constructively, politely make your case to BW, the better the chance that ability gets saved or isn't put in a choice with 2 other essential abilities for the class/spec.

 

There are some folks getting emotional in their posts, but most of the ones I see are on the constructive side of things.

Edited August 27, 2021 by arunav

[ExarSun]

I can say with certainty that no one on the dev team actually plays DPS Juggernaut at a high level. Removing intercede then forcing a choice between mad dash, saber reflect, and endure pain is a veritable death sentence to the class in PvP.

 

The viability of the class going forward is going to be based largely on what the other classes lose, and the extent of the damage buffs they get.

 

Word on the street is the devs main snipers / mercs, so don't expect them to lose much of anything. Most likely snipers will keep diversion, immunity to cc / leaps while entrenched, and that silly run speed boost they get when exiting cover. Mercs will probably lose their heal DCD, but gain an extra charge of hydraulic overrides and some damage.

 

Range classes in this game need something to shoot at. Even better when the enemy can't break line of sight or reflect incoming damage.

 

Expect PvP to be a joke for melee DPS after the patch hits, and as always keep your try hard pants on.

 

Right on point. Not much to be said other than that. Its a complete joke.

[friendly_facist]

Word on the street is the devs main snipers / mercs, so don't expect them to lose much of anything. Most likely snipers will keep diversion, immunity to cc / leaps while entrenched, and that silly run speed boost they get when exiting cover. Mercs will probably lose their heal DCD, but gain an extra charge of hydraulic overrides and some damage..

 

When did they start playing?

[euroDSMtuner]

I can say with certainty that no one on the dev team actually plays DPS Juggernaut at a high level. Removing intercede then forcing a choice between mad dash, saber reflect, and endure pain is a veritable death sentence to the class in PvP.

 

If what you say is accurate,

 

Then ****.

 

They might as well remove DPS juggernaut from the game altogether!

 

All 3 are vital survival abilities that are used on a regular basis! Hell, intercede and mad dash is how I keep up with people in ops. Not to mention MD's use to get the hell out of the way of certain mechanics that mean life or death. Jugg is going to be a f**king joke after 7.0 if what you say holds true. This blows *** since my mains are DPS and Tank Juggernauts.

 

Endure pain is my cleanse. Saber reflect can save me from massive directed hits. Mad dash gets me out of the way of Corrupter Zeros anti gravity AOE.

 

Having to choose one of these three will absolutely trash this class and will turn it into a heavy, slow liability in both PvP AND PvE.

 

WHAT THE ABSOLUTE HELL, BioWare.

I've been playing since 1.0, the money and time I've spent on this game are massive, and this is potentially just the biggest 'f**k you' imaginable.

 

At least my starships and ground weaponry in STO aren't getting nerfed into squeaky toys. You could really learn something from the devs over at Cryptic. THEY know how to keep their player base happy

Edited August 29, 2021 by euroDSMtuner

[Dyne-]

If what you say is accurate,

 

Then ****.

 

They might as well remove DPS juggernaut from the game altogether!

 

All 3 are vital survival abilities that are used on a regular basis! Hell, intercede and mad dash is how I keep up with people in ops. Not to mention MD's use to get the hell out of the way of certain mechanics that mean life or death. Jugg is going to be a f**king joke after 7.0 if what you say holds true. This blows *** since my mains are DPS and Tank Juggernauts.

 

Endure pain is my cleanse. Saber reflect can save me from massive directed hits. Mad dash gets me out of the way of Corrupter Zeros anti gravity AOE.

 

Having to choose one of these three will absolutely trash this class and will turn it into a heavy, slow liability in both PvP AND PvE.

 

WHAT THE ABSOLUTE HELL, BioWare.

I've been playing since 1.0, the money and time I've spent on this game are massive, and this is potentially just the biggest 'f**k you' imaginable.

 

At least my starships and ground weaponry in STO aren't getting nerfed into squeaky toys. You could really learn something from the devs over at Cryptic. THEY know how to keep their player base happy

 

There's a reason the Guardian feedback thread has 479 replies, and the overwhelming majority of them are negative.

 

They have an update that was posted on August 24th about the changes they've made thus far. Saber throw is back to being a baseline ability, and endure pain is baseline for Immortal spec only. Intercede is a level 35 choice for Immortal spec only.

 

So Immortal level 70 choice is looking like Mad Dash, Saber Reflect, and Awe. Overall it looks like Immortal will be the spec that will remain closest to its live counterpart. From a PvP perspective this is hilarious considering it's the most OP in its current state.

 

The nail in the coffin for me will be if I see Operatives and Mercenaries with the ability to reflect damage, but Force Users no longer can lol.

 

Oh and before you think about playing Marauder just know they no longer have force choke. They also have to choose between Undying Rage, Force Camo, and Mad dash at level 70.

 

I get the feeling either myself, or some other talented Jugg player killed a devs merc one too many times in PvP.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Dyne-