Seasons Pilots read here.

[Gundahar]

Hey guys have a couple of questions.

 

Double volley or plasma warhead?

 

Swap capacitor to targeting? Don't seem to need regen with F1. Power is also an option I guess. Dunno If I need it, Rapids are practically free.

 

Thinking about launching a few today. Wanted to get a good feel for this blaster set up first. Still getting used to F1 and tab. Bound mine to "Q" because my finger already knows that one lol. Have some bad habits.

 

**EDIT** also swapped to crit on the rapids and back to gault. too hard to see the red things on top and bottom of my circle. Any thoughts here?

Edited August 22, 2021 by Gundahar

[Drakkolich]

Hey guys have a couple of questions.

 

Double volley or plasma warhead?

 

Swap capacitor to targeting? Don't seem to need regen with F1. Power is also an option I guess. Dunno If I need it, Rapids are practically free.

 

Thinking about launching a few today. Wanted to get a good feel for this blaster set up first. Still getting used to F1 and tab. Bound mine to "Q" because my finger already knows that one lol. Have some bad habits.

 

**EDIT** also swapped to crit on the rapids and back to gault. too hard to see the red things on top and bottom of my circle. Any thoughts here?

 

Double Volley is just way more damage, but if you're having ammo problems you can swap to the DoT, that's really the only reason to use it.

 

I'm assuming you mean the Magazine and not the actual capacitor. Basically if you're running Heavy/Quads setup you need Regeneration Extender because that combo just eats weapon power, but if you're running Heavy/Rapids you can take Efficient Targeting since Rapids are so weapon power light you're good to go. That's another advantage that Heavy/Rapids gets, is that you have faster Missile lock ons.

 

Crit on Rapids is fine, it's very much a personal preference thing for that upgrade, I personally like more accuracy since you're already doing a ton of damage and just making everything more consistent is how I like to play.

 

Gault is a fine offensive crew member choice, you're basically choosing between Missile lowered cooldowns and extra arc and if you're using Clusters you definitely want the cooldowns. If you're running Protons though, you really want the extra arc.

[Gundahar]

Thanks appreciate the quick response! Yep totally meant magazine sorry. oops lol. Appreciate the info. Think I will make some U/I changes to accommodate the huge arc and switch to targeting with dbl vollry. Taking + 4 ammo. Don't plan to spam them but I do want to stay in gun range. I also like the extra accuracy on rapids. Flew one with crit and missed the 5% reduced tracking penalty right away.

 

Got them unlocked finally

[Ttoilleekul]

Hey guys have a couple of questions.

 

Double volley or plasma warhead?

Double Volley. Agree with Drakolich - the only reason to take Plasma Warhead is to not run out of ammo. That said they can work very effectively. I ran it for a while with almost no discernible change in performance. The trick is that clusters must be landed at the same time as blaster damage, or at least directly before / directly after. Do that and both options work, but Double volley is still better.

 

Swap capacitor to targeting? Don't seem to need regen with F1. Power is also an option I guess. Dunno If I need it, Rapids are practically free.

Go with Efficient Targeting for this build. This gives you 1.1s lock time on Clusters which will land with almost as much reliability as pods. Few people have the mental speed to break clusters that quick. Again agree with Drakolich, Regen Extender is not needed on this build.

 

**EDIT** also swapped to crit on the rapids and back to gault. too hard to see the red things on top and bottom of my circle. Any thoughts here?

Crit on rapids is largely pointless I think. Not going to ramble on too much about why but I think the only build worth running crit on is traditional piledriver. For everything else you want accuracy. Don't forget what you really want from that option is the decreased tracking penalty. If you intend to continue out turning people and using Rapids at close range, that option is essential.

 

I don't agree with Drakolich on Offensive choices here. I don't agree that the choice is between Rapid reload and extra arc. On a Scout, yes I always take extra arc and improved accuracy. But on a Strike with Rapids and Heavies? Why do we need extra arc? Rapids already have a huge arc, and adding more arc to Heavies is pointless, as they suck for anything that is not dead ahead. I personally take Pierce in Offensive for this slot. Gault is fine, but clusters reload in 3.0s anyway, so bringing that re-load time down to 2.4s doesn't gain you much. Especially when you consider the goal here is not to spam missiles but to work on your effectiveness with lasers.

 

I can honestly say I have never felt the need for my clusters to reload quicker. I don't think anyone who is confident about their laser damage ever does. I don't think Drakolich feels that need if he really thinks about it. Let's actually think about this for a second. Rapid reload gives you 0.4s faster reload time on Clusters. To actually benefit from that you need to be spamming clusters like a mad man. Because once 3.0s has elapsed, that Rapid Reload option is doing nothing for you. How many times in a match do you need to fire off that many clusters in that quick succession? I can tell you its not often, and if you do feel that need, you're not focusing on ship positioning and being devastating with your lasers, which is the entire point here, isn't it?

 

Pierce gives extra ammo, while both options give improve accuracy. Extra ammo just makes sense when running double volley clusters. That brings your ammo pool up from 12 - 19, which is a far more significant difference, even In TDM, because sometimes you just can't find a yellow when you want it. In DOM, you can't rely on having ammo refill on a repair drone. You have to think as a solo player here, not as someone who knows their team always has a refill ammo repair drone. The only reason to go with Rapid Reload is if you're dying too quickly to make use of 19 clusters. But that's something we are also working on here, right? The better you become at staying alive the more you will appreciate the extra ammo, because 12 clusters does not go far.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Ttoilleekul

[Drakkolich]

Yeah so this is one of those I forget you guys are thinking in Solo queue terms things again, so my bad.

 

Yes, just on it's own I would choose ammo over arc or cooldown, however when I run this build with clusters it's usually in the idea of spamming people with clusters as fast as possible to mask Protons for my teammates, and when I run it we have someone bring an Ammo drone so I never have to worry about running out of double volley clusters.

[Ttoilleekul]

Yeah so this is one of those I forget you guys are thinking in Solo queue terms things again, so my bad.

 

Yes, just on it's own I would choose ammo over arc or cooldown, however when I run this build with clusters it's usually in the idea of spamming people with clusters as fast as possible to mask Protons for my teammates, and when I run it we have someone bring an Ammo drone so I never have to worry about running out of double volley clusters.

 

Yep;. So just to clarifiy in case you missed it, what Gundahar is doing here - prompted by my tips thread - is trying to improve his proficiency with lasers, and get away from reliance on Protons. To that end I suggested he run with clusters, because that will force better usage of primary weapons.

 

In a team set up, yes spamming clusters forces breaks which means your team mates can then Protorp them. It even works in solo queue and its why I run clusters on my T2S TDM build instead pods. That's just not what we are trying to achieve for him here though. He's trying to get to a point where he is confident in making damage and kills with lasers, and only uses missiles for specific situations rather than spamming them in hope of making a kill.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Ttoilleekul

[Drakkolich]

Yep;. So just to clarifiy in case you missed it, what Gundahar is doing here - prompted by my tips thread - is trying to improve his proficiency with lasers, and get away from reliance on Protons. To that end I suggested he run with clusters, because that will force better usage of primary weapons.

 

In a team set up, yes spamming clusters forces breaks which means your team mates can then Protorp them. It even works in solo queue and its why I run clusters on my T2S TDM build instead pods. That's just not what we are trying to achieve for him here though. He's trying to get to a point where he is confident in making damage and kills with lasers, and only uses missiles for specific situations rather than spamming them in hope of making a kill.

 

Yeah I understand the premise of his exercise, I was just offering advice for if he or someone actually wanted to play with Clusters regularly, sorry if that didn't come across.

 

Also while you are getting enemy breaks with Clusters that's not really the "masking" I was referring too.

 

Most players when they get hit by a Cluster even after a break, learn that they can just take the missile, or atleast take every second one and break inbetween. In a team setting you can single out players that are doing this, by having a teammate with Protons Lock theirs at the same time as you, this way they think they're letting themselves take 1 Cluster as damage so they can break the second one, and in reality they end up taking the Proton. It's an advanced tactic to target players that are trying to tank clusters to not waste their missile break.

[Ttoilleekul]

Yeah I understand the premise of his exercise, I was just offering advice for if he or someone actually wanted to play with Clusters regularly, sorry if that didn't come across.

 

Also while you are getting enemy breaks with Clusters that's not really the "masking" I was referring too.

 

Most players when they get hit by a Cluster even after a break, learn that they can just take the missile, or atleast take every second one and break inbetween. In a team setting you can single out players that are doing this, by having a teammate with Protons Lock theirs at the same time as you, this way they think they're letting themselves take 1 Cluster as damage so they can break the second one, and in reality they end up taking the Proton. It's an advanced tactic to target players that are trying to tank clusters to not waste their missile break.

 

Yes, I understood what you meant. All I meant was that by using clusters on my Scout in TDM, if I force a break, there's a decent chance that guy is going eat a Protorp from someone else. If he doesn't break - or get evasive, I'm still in a Battle Scout and he's going to get blown up. So while it is not the level of coordination you guys are utilizing, it still serves my team because its one guy with no break and goodness knows how many Protorp spammers trying to lock him. I don't think I would refer to coordinated missile masking as "advanced" but its certainly effective, yes.

 

I'd like to see you guys do a "no ammunition" match. I know you used to do "just for fun" matches before. Maybe you could do a "no ammo" just for fun match. That would include no pods, even though they aren't really missiles....

Edited August 24, 2021 by Ttoilleekul

[Gundahar]

Well late to the party again. I had a lot more free time when I originally shot my mouth off Sorry this is taking so long and thanks for hanging in there. This will be more of a slow and steady experience I guess.

 

Good news is that I have been flying a handful of matches daily and I wanted to update on my early impressions. Not sure what match I am on. Less than 50. Best guess is around 40. Didn't look before logging out last night.

 

Thanks for the tips in the crew member discussion. I like pierce on the blackbolt with rocket pods. Can see how the extra ammo would help with clusters for sure. Still using Gault currently. Have not actually fired a cluster (edite: 0 missiles/torps fired) yet on this ship. I remember what you said Luke but I am back in rookie mini camp here and the new (to me) things are just too important right now. These are skills I should have already had down before doing the cluster test.

 

I forced myself to slow it down and fly focusing only on what I am starting to see as the three aspects of GSF combat. Power management, Survival, Accuracy. Guess what is happening? Already have a 1.something:0.something kill ratio and am around 5.something kills/match avg. Accuracy and dmg both mid 40's avg and steadily increasing.

 

F1 - F4:

EVERYTHING is better with good power management. Still have a lot to learn here. I did find myself running out of blasters when I have to rely a lot on the heavies. Even in F1. Swapped to damage capacitor to lower the cost. Haven't noticed any drop off in dmg. opposite actually. Lot of learning curve variables to factor in though.

 

Tabbing - then "c" where they are : This is Survival 101. Not just for finding attackers. Learning that this is useful in many situations. Still thinking too much with too long reaction times. Things will smooth out.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Gundahar

[Gundahar]

Hey if you guys do have a "no ammo match" Can I play? I will handicap your team but it would be great practice for me.

[Drakkolich]

Hey if you guys do have a "no ammo match" Can I play? I will handicap your team but it would be great practice for me.

 

I think he meant, just something to mess around with when I'm playing with my regular team just flying matches. Not sure when you play, but I'd be up for scheduling to play some matches with you one day. Our usual time slot is roughly 11pm-2am which changes a little depending on the day.

[Gundahar]

Sounds good, thanks!

[Drakkolich]

I'd like to see you guys do a "no ammunition" match. I know you used to do "just for fun" matches before. Maybe you could do a "no ammo" just for fun match. That would include no pods, even though they aren't really missiles....

 

As Requested, we actually had a lot fun in this short match.

 

[Ttoilleekul]

Well late to the party again. I had a lot more free time when I originally shot my mouth off Sorry this is taking so long and thanks for hanging in there. This will be more of a slow and steady experience I guess.

 

Good news is that I have been flying a handful of matches daily and I wanted to update on my early impressions. Not sure what match I am on. Less than 50. Best guess is around 40. Didn't look before logging out last night.

 

Thanks for the tips in the crew member discussion. I like pierce on the blackbolt with rocket pods. Can see how the extra ammo would help with clusters for sure. Still using Gault currently. Have not actually fired a cluster (edite: 0 missiles/torps fired) yet on this ship. I remember what you said Luke but I am back in rookie mini camp here and the new (to me) things are just too important right now. These are skills I should have already had down before doing the cluster test.

 

I forced myself to slow it down and fly focusing only on what I am starting to see as the three aspects of GSF combat. Power management, Survival, Accuracy. Guess what is happening? Already have a 1.something:0.something kill ratio and am around 5.something kills/match avg. Accuracy and dmg both mid 40's avg and steadily increasing.

 

F1 - F4:

EVERYTHING is better with good power management. Still have a lot to learn here. I did find myself running out of blasters when I have to rely a lot on the heavies. Even in F1. Swapped to damage capacitor to lower the cost. Haven't noticed any drop off in dmg. opposite actually. Lot of learning curve variables to factor in though.

 

Tabbing - then "c" where they are : This is Survival 101. Not just for finding attackers. Learning that this is useful in many situations. Still thinking too much with too long reaction times. Things will smooth out.

 

Its just practice from here on out. Your brain needs to get used to things where the synapses are natural and you aren't having to think about it too much. All normal, You're getting there.

[Ttoilleekul]

As Requested, we actually had a lot fun in this short match.

 

 

Hehe. nice one I'll check that out in a bit.

[Gundahar]

Hey I finally got my 12 kill achv! Got 14. Most dmg I've ever had too. :D:D:D:D:D

 

[Ttoilleekul]

Hey I finally got my 12 kill achv! Got 14. Most dmg I've ever had too. :D:D:D:D:D

 

 

Well done! Nice numbers! Good accuracy and good damage!

[Gundahar]

Thanks:) this wouldn't have been possible without your film break down and Drak's power management guide. I have had a 12 kill 75k dmg goal for months and could not get past 11 kills 56k dmg. Now I will shoot for 20 kills 100k dmg. Maybe never hit that but it's a goal.

 

If I can learn to do this anybody can. Just takes some good information and focused practice. Still having bad matches too but they aren't nearly as bad as they used to be. In my view all aspects of the game take practice to get good at. Nobody rolls into mm dxun on the first day and clears it.

 

I read something once that still motivates me in different areas of my life. Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong. Not sure where I fall into all that but I do know that good information plus focused practice has helped a lot.

 

Hey Drak, I watched your missile vid on youtube other day. I will say again nicce! that looked fun. checked out your missile animation vid that day and was astonished to find out prototorps can take up to 10 seconds in the air. That plus the 2.4? second lock time..... can almost shoot down 5 ships with blasters in that amount of time. 1 - 2 sec kills are achievable by anyone.

 

Been keeping an eye on everyone's targeting computers while watching everybody's youtubes. It's helping me try to understand what targets you pick and why.

[Ttoilleekul]

Thanks:) this wouldn't have been possible without your film break down and Drak's power management guide. I have had a 12 kill 75k dmg goal for months and could not get past 11 kills 56k dmg. Now I will shoot for 20 kills 100k dmg. Maybe never hit that but it's a goal.

You will achieve it, I am certain of it, based on what I have seen.

 

If I can learn to do this anybody can. Just takes some good information and focused practice. Still having bad matches too but they aren't nearly as bad as they used to be. In my view all aspects of the game take practice to get good at. Nobody rolls into mm dxun on the first day and clears it.

Precisely.

 

I read something once that still motivates me in different areas of my life. Amateurs practice until they get it right. Professionals practice until they can't get it wrong. Not sure where I fall into all that but I do know that good information plus focused practice has helped a lot.

You fall into a category of someone with a lot of potential if you keep approaching things the way you are now. Tenacity, is the one thing that a lot of people miss.

 

can almost shoot down 5 ships with blasters in that amount of time. 1 - 2 sec kills are achievable by anyone.

I love that you made this observation. It bodes very well.

[Gundahar]

Mission complete. Did you guys give up on me?

 

Luc - if you read this; thanks again. I mean it. Read you are leaving GSF and I wish you the best. I will miss our conversations and your encouragement. Added a link to your solo win guide to page 1. Nice work.

 

Well I got off to a great start and then things moved in decimals for about 40 matches. Saturday afternoon/evening they moved backwards while I got my butt kicked for about 6 hours. The big guns were out to play. That was also the day I learned the most. I still make the same mistakes, only not as often. Also learned a new trick or two.

 

Here are the results - Page1:

https://i.imgur.com/NX7mPZU.jpg[/img]"]

Page 2:

https://i.imgur.com/1Jxfzf1.jpg[/img]"]

 

I have mixed feeling about the results. On the one hand there is clear and obvious improvement in every category. That feels pretty good. On the other hand I didn't do as well as I wanted to and I am disappointed. I don't know if these are "good" or "bad" numbers - nothing to compare them to. What I do know is that I wanted to do better.

 

Some really fun things happened. Already showed my 12 kill achv. Here is my 15 (16). This was extra fun because many were kills vs scouts on nodes in an extremely close match.

 

Here is what I think is my best match. Not the best number match. Not bad either though. Felt like it is the one I made the fewest mistakes. Can't see that on a stat line, here it is anyway.

 

Here is one with 63% accuracy. Not great otherwise. Tells me I can do much better in the accuracy department. This was match 100/100.

 

Well I don't know where to go from here with this. I was hoping to read Luc's analysis of the results to see how I did. Drak would you mind? I honestly don't know if I did any good or not. Some good things Yes for sure. Overall the dmg and acc numbers seemed pretty weak to me.

 

For now I will just pass it on and say this is well worth doing. Might hit a rough patch just keep at it.

 

I OFFICIALLY DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU, (whomever you are), TO FLY THIS SHIP FOR 100 MATCHES.

 

I agreed with Luc before that lasers are important. Now I wish to reinforce his opinion that everyone should learn to fly without missiles.

[Ttoilleekul]

I can still give you a break down on this, and its my pleasure to sign off on this challenge for you. Sub is ending in 4 days though and I won't remain active on this forum even if I still had access.

 

Here are the results - Page1:

https://i.imgur.com/NX7mPZU.jpg[/img]"]

Page 2:

https://i.imgur.com/1Jxfzf1.jpg[/img]"].

These don't enlage properly, so its hard to see the numbers. But it looks like 58% win ratio, and 39k Av.Dmg? Be happy with that. I wouldn't have expected more to be honest. Don't take that as an insult. This is a major improvement, and lets not forget this is with clusters. 40k Av.dmg is getting into the realms of being a solid vet skill level. Even more so when Protons are not equipped and these are all laser kills.I know you wanted to do better, and that's a good thing, because the best Aces are never happy with their performances or numbers. They always feel they can do better.

 

So one goal you had was to beat 12 kills, and you did that with a 14kill match. You then beat that again with this 16 kill match. Both matches had 70k+ damage, which shows these were not lucky matches. Someone who gets 12 kills with 30k damage is lucky - and mostly Proton kills. Your results are the effect of increasing skill.

 

Here is what I think is my best match. Not the best number match. Not bad either though. Felt like it is the one I made the fewest mistakes. Can't see that on a stat line, here it is anyway.

And then you did it again here, 16 kills, this time in Dom and with a good objective score, which also means you are trying to play on nodes. Excellent.

 

Here is one with 63% accuracy. Not great otherwise. Tells me I can do much better in the accuracy department. This was match 100/100.

Double volley clusters will give you inflated accuracy numbers, remember that every missile launched counts as a hit. But Rapids can lower those numbers too, because unlike with BLC, its okay with Rapids to correct your lead on your target without releasing the fire button. Not ideal, but permissible. Either way you slice it, 63% accuracy is great, well above average, and proof that the challenge worked. If you're shooting over 50% in tough matches and over 60% in easy matches, you are doing just fine. 46.4 % overall accuracy, would benice to see this over 50%, but remember your last 25 games will have come up a lot. It will be your first 50 games dragging that down.

 

Well I don't know where to go from here with this. I was hoping to read Luc's analysis of the results to see how I did. Drak would you mind? I honestly don't know if I did any good or not. Some good things Yes for sure. Overall the dmg and acc numbers seemed pretty weak to me.

You did great. Accuracy > damage > kills will keep on improving from here, just keep doing what you're doing. Your KDR needs work. Work on survivability. Staying alive. Try to bring your KDR up. Work on coming out of super tough matches (ones where you're losing badly) with a positive KDR. Even if its by only 1. Then work on making it by more.

 

Now that you have done this with Clusters, and are clearly and evidently using lasers properly, switch to Concussions. I bet you'll see your kills going up. Eventually you can go back to Protons if you wish. It's your choice, just make sure you don't lose that priority and ability you have trained with lasers. They should always be 80% of your damage and kills.

 

I OFFICIALLY DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU, (whomever you are), TO FLY THIS SHIP FOR 100 MATCHES.

 

I agreed with Luc before that lasers are important. Now I wish to reinforce his opinion that everyone should learn to fly without missiles.

Atta boy, thats the spirit

 

Report card grade..... A-.

If you had managed a KDR over 2.5, I would have given you an A+.

 

Drakolich, take this kid further will you. Please.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Ttoilleekul

[Gundahar]

oh nice! Glad I got this up before your sub ran out. Looks like I did better than I thought, just not as well as I was hoping. Now that we have Luc's analysis I will share that my private goals were 7 kills avg, 2:1 KDR, with 50k avg dmg and 50% accuracy. I fell short and did not like that.

 

Sorry the screenies are so huge. No idea what happened there or how to fix it. I will type some of the final numbers here for reference. Anyone that wants to verify will have to scroll until what you want to see is in the center of your screen. Pretend you are lining up a blaster kill:rak_03:

 

Battles: 100

win/loss% : 58

Avg kills: 5.96

avg assist: 7.36

kill/death ratio: 1.76

avg damage: 39,525.64

missiles fired: 442

accuracy: 46.40%

 

The missile number is a little bit skewed. 4.42 per match is low. Remember I flew 36 matches before I fired one. I didn't use many because they are almost useless but I did use more than that. Last 20 matches or so ran out twice and swapped to Pierce. If we calculate on 64 matches 6.9/match. I was using them on anything that moved at the end just to try and get my avg damage up.

 

Thoughts on this ship build:

In Domination it is great. You are (or should be) fighting on nodes where the short range and double turning give you an advantage. Even against scouts. Bombers take forever to burn down with rapids but you can easily out fly them. Even with an interdiction effect present can still maneuver a little bit. In Denon - stagger your approach to recharge engines. You can make it but you won't have anything in the tank to fight with. I learned to LOVE this build for Dom.

 

Team Death Match is a different story. You are slower than the other strikes, catching scouts is a joke unless they make a mistake. You have what amounts to no missiles and will have to rely on your heavies a lot while on approach (5500 - 2500M is what I use) to your target. This means your target MUST be centered. Heavies are unforgiving. Wreck everything though so you get a nice trade off for flying well.

 

Gone are the days of staying out of the crowd in TDM and sniping with a missile or hoping someone comes in range for a blaster shot. You can't catch anyone so don't try. Instead you have to get rough up in the enemy crowd and fly in range of your blasters. This means you will be flying 2 - 4 vs 1 at all times. If there's a good vet on your team wing with them and cover each other. They will already know how to do this so just stick like a mosquito. You will learn to use terrain as cover.

[Gundahar]

whoops meant to preview and hit submit. All I want to add is that moving forward for me ... I will re equip edit: concussions and keep flying this ship for a few more weeks. Still a lot it can tech me. Not on the same alt though, Going back to flying the weeklies across my account to stock pile fleet comms for the goods I hope we get in 7.0.

 

Luc, thanks again man and GL! I will keep all these things in mind until I don't have to think about them anymore.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Gundahar

[Ttoilleekul]

, catching scouts is a joke unless they make a mistake. You have what amounts to no missiles and will have to rely on your heavies a lot while on approach (5500 - 2500M is what I use) to your target. This means your target MUST be centered. Heavies are unforgiving. Wreck everything though so you get a nice trade off for flying well.

This is actually the best build for countering Scouts, as long as they aren't an Ace. Clusters are excellent against Scouts and rapids work well too. Learn to piledrive this build, if you haven't.

[Gundahar]

This is actually the best build for countering Scouts, as long as they aren't an Ace. Clusters are excellent against Scouts and rapids work well too. Learn to piledrive this build, if you haven't.

 

Oh yeah for sure. I only meant for when they run away. Seems to be becoming a thing. Good luck catching up. Can be persistent with pursuit and chase them around. will eventually get them. Also, anything I said about scout fighting doesn't count for the 3% that can fly the daylights out of one.

 

Also will ad you are at a serious range and weapon disadvantage against other strikes. Don't even think about jousting one with this build unless you are at about 1500 meters. Then its a guaranteed (almost) win. Pile driving reminded me of it. Have not tried it much yet. I will for sure though.