Why regift Shae Vizla?

[DarkTergon]

Then perhaps you should explain it. Actually try explaining why your undeserved entitlement should receive a jot of attention from upstairs. People have already explained ad nauseum why recognizing new subs is important. But I have heard no argument for why BW should contribute any resources to recognize subs who, let's face it, are going to resub regardless.

 

Again, like other posters here, like the one you're responding to...I already have Shae. I just made a new character the other day and got 32 mails with junk 'rewards' I mostly don't use. Others probably got lots more. What do I possibly need with one more?

 

Don't have the patience to explain it to you again, why waste time?

[DarkTergon]

"Limited Time" and "One Time Only" are two different contractual promises. The ads I could dig up show BioWare specifically stating available for a limited time. If BioWare Offers an item that is available for 364/365 days it technically falls under the limited time definition. The promotion in question is being released a third time, with two-ish year between each release. This once again fall under the definition of limited time. Accusing them of lying/breaking their promise would be an overstep.

 

*Terms and Conditions

* To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PST//7:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail or mission and are redeemable as of the launch of the monthly chapter(s). Players must have an active Subscription status to unlock 2 Days of Early Access for each Chapter.

*Players must have completed Chapters 1-9 to access their HK-55 Companion. After completing Chapter 9, players will receive an Alliance Alert that will take them on a mission to recruit HK-55.

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

 

That's the ToS on the shroud chapter. But they've brought that back as a CM item. They changed the ToS on it, etc.

That's why people have accused them of lying, etc. This never said limited time, in fact, states you HAD to be a sub from X to Y.

[AceMasterSoul]

*Terms and Conditions

* To qualify for the Knights of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards, the account must be in a Subscriber status as of 11:59PM PST//7:59AM GMT on the date listed by the reward. Knights of the Fallen Empire rewards are delivered through in-game mail or mission and are redeemable as of the launch of the monthly chapter(s). Players must have an active Subscription status to unlock 2 Days of Early Access for each Chapter.

*Players must have completed Chapters 1-9 to access their HK-55 Companion. After completing Chapter 9, players will receive an Alliance Alert that will take them on a mission to recruit HK-55.

** To qualify for the HK-55 Bonus Chapter, the account must continuously be in active Subscription status between January 11 - August 1, 2016. Once you qualify and the Bonus Chapter is released, you may enter and play the Bonus Chapter after you complete Chapters 1-16.

 

That's the ToS on the shroud chapter. But they've brought that back as a CM item. They changed the ToS on it, etc.

That's why people have accused them of lying, etc. This never said limited time, in fact, states you HAD to be a sub from X to Y.

 

I love reading terms and conditions. I wasn't around for this promotion and I'm no lawyer, but * point two is the most important piece of the T&C. This states what the product/promotion is "Knight of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Rewards" HK-55 being a sub category in that Product/Promotion. Once BioWare made it a solo Cartel Market item It was no longer a "Knight of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Reward", but a separate product. Therefore the qualification at ** no longer applied to it.

 

One could also argue that "To Qualify" ≠ "Only way to Qualify" which would make not qualifying during stated time the only way to break this agreement. This route would require comparing the different versions of the T&C to make sure they have similar defined statements. I don't know multiple languages so I can't do this.

 

As I said before, It's an overstep to state BioWare Lied, Players that qualified got their rewards. People who purchase the HK-55 chapter don't get the other rewards. T&Cs are generated to protect companies from law suits. T&Cs are only truly defined when they are in legal debate. BioWare may have indented to have it as an exclusive reward, but since it was highly requested their intent changed. Lies require an intent to deceive. BioWare changing their intent, unfortunately for some, ≠ equal not having the intent at all. (I can't truly claim to know their intent, but from previous dialogue this seems to be the case.)

Edited September 2, 2020 by AceMasterSoul

[DarkTergon]

IOnce BioWare made it a solo Cartel Market item It was no longer a "Knight of the Fallen Empire Subscriber Reward", but a separate product.

 

I'm not a legal expert, neither are most people here, but basically it should never have been separated, maybe it's a case of using the 'letter of the law versus the intent' But it has been arguments like that that have literally let people get away with murder. You can argue over semantics all day, I'm sure there are legal people who love this type of 'puzzle'

But they basically said HAD to be a sub from x to y, which implied it was only available then. Which is why people have felt lied to, etc. We can continue to argue over this, but it's old territory, and nothing new will come from it. Some people wanted to know why people were angry, that is one of the main reasons.

[stoopicus]

I'm not a legal expert, neither are most people here, but basically it should never have been separated, maybe it's a case of using the 'letter of the law versus the intent' But it has been arguments like that that have literally let people get away with murder. You can argue over semantics all day, I'm sure there are legal people who love this type of 'puzzle'

But they basically said HAD to be a sub from x to y, which implied it was only available then. Which is why people have felt lied to, etc. We can continue to argue over this, but it's old territory, and nothing new will come from it. Some people wanted to know why people were angry, that is one of the main reasons.

 

Yeah, I'd agree with this. The intent at the time was clearly that this piece of content was to be limited to the current set of users at the specified time.

 

So yes, perhaps not *legally* mendacious, but definitely misleading.

 

My assertion is that the entire idea of time-limited content for things like this is dumb and puts Bioware in bad situations nearly every time. They should stop.

 

This is more than just Lord British's Fifth Anniversary Cake here. Take the HK-55 unlock as a prime example - This unlocks two excellent companions, one of which all players are clearly intended to form an emotional bond with in KotFE regardless of subs status, and is also tied to an alliance alert mission that is actually relatively long, well done, funny, and super fun. It's a lot of content, and it is tied to important story content, and it was fundamentally dumb to *ever* make this content locked behind a subs reward.

 

Shae (and Nico?) are legacy rewards and as such are very useful companions. You can plop Shae onto any new L1 character you make and use her to sweep through early levels at an even more ridiculous pace. She was available to everyone to such a broad extent that I had even forgotten that she was time-limited at all. So, also dumb to lock out from new users, and I am glad she's released.

 

For both of these, the real problem here is Bioware making the same mistake repeatedly, of time-limiting content and then subsequently removing the limitation. They should never have been time limited to begin with, and Bioware should find better ways (of which there are good suggestions upthread) for rewarding long term subs.

[AceMasterSoul]

Yeah, I'd agree with this. The intent at the time was clearly that this piece of content was to be limited to the current set of users at the specified time.

 

So yes, perhaps not *legally* mendacious, but definitely misleading.

 

My assertion is that the entire idea of time-limited content for things like this is dumb and puts Bioware in bad situations nearly every time. They should stop.

 

This is more than just Lord British's Fifth Anniversary Cake here. Take the HK-55 unlock as a prime example - This unlocks two excellent companions, one of which all players are clearly intended to form an emotional bond with in KotFE regardless of subs status, and is also tied to an alliance alert mission that is actually relatively long, well done, funny, and super fun. It's a lot of content, and it is tied to important story content, and it was fundamentally dumb to *ever* make this content locked behind a subs reward.

 

Shae (and Nico?) are legacy rewards and as such are very useful companions. You can plop Shae onto any new L1 character you make and use her to sweep through early levels at an even more ridiculous pace. She was available to everyone to such a broad extent that I had even forgotten that she was time-limited at all. So, also dumb to lock out from new users, and I am glad she's released.

 

For both of these, the real problem here is Bioware making the same mistake repeatedly, of time-limiting content and then subsequently removing the limitation. They should never have been time limited to begin with, and Bioware should find better ways (of which there are good suggestions upthread) for rewarding long term subs.

 

Do you truly believe Bioware Intended to mislead you when they put that promotion on original? I don't think that's true. I remember when players originally started asking for the reward. BioWare made a statement several months before the actual re-release. They said, in so many words, it is tough to decide the right thing to do and that they would get back to us. If I can find the actual statement, I found the actual thread link at the bottom, it will show you that they intended it to be exclusive but because of player demand the were looking for a way to give players HK-55 while minimizing the damage to those who participated in the promotion. I'd say they succeed.

 

It’s time to make HK-55 and Chapter 10 available for subs??

Edited September 3, 2020 by AceMasterSoul

[stoopicus]

Do you truly believe Bioware Intended to mislead you when they put that promotion on original? I don't think that's true. I remember when players originally started asking for the reward. BioWare made a statement several months before the actual re-release. They said, in so many words, it is tough to decide the right thing to do and that they would get back to us. If I can find the actual statement, I found the actual thread link at the bottom, it will show you that they intended it to be exclusive but because of player demand the were looking for a way to give players HK-55 while minimizing the damage to those who participated in the promotion. I'd say they succeed.

 

It’s time to make HK-55 and Chapter 10 available for subs??

 

I should probably be more clear, apologies.

 

I do not feel misled myself and am happy with the current state of bringing back old content for everyone.

 

I have a very easy time seeing why some people do feel misled. At the time of the exclusive content offers, the intent feels clear (even to me) that these are rewards are to be limited to people subbed at the time.

 

I personally think this is a very bad idea, because it puts Bioware in exactly this situation, where some people (pretty legitimately, IMO) feel misled if they release the content, while others (new players) benefit a lot when they do.

 

In my opinion the correct *action* to take here, 100% of the time, is to release the content to everyone. Substantial content should not be time-lockout.

 

Going down that path is just bad. For an example at the other end of the spectrum, Destiny 2 is one of my favorite games. And it has a well known FOMO problem, to the point that even Bungie is trying to find good ways to back off from it a bit. In the case of D2, you have entire *content story arcs* that are time-limited. Because I had the Season Pass after Forsaken, I was able to experience the unfolding of the Dreaming City cycle and the Mara Sov story arc. That is now *over*. No one can experience that now. It's a part of the story that I only got to play because I was a member at a specific time. New players are permanently unable to do the things we did then. And Bungie repeats this again and again. It actually leads to real FOMO and it isn't healthy.

 

The same is true of these limited content drops to a lesser extent. It's not a good path to take.

[DarkTergon]

Do you truly believe Bioware Intended to mislead you when they put that promotion on original? I don't think that's true. I remember when players originally started asking for the reward. BioWare made a statement several months before the actual re-release. They said, in so many words, it is tough to decide the right thing to do and that they would get back to us. If I can find the actual statement, I found the actual thread link at the bottom, it will show you that they intended it to be exclusive but because of player demand the were looking for a way to give players HK-55 while minimizing the damage to those who participated in the promotion. I'd say they succeed.

 

It’s time to make HK-55 and Chapter 10 available for subs??

 

They basically did what they always do, which is what was best for themselves, not the community, which is why we had the massive backlash, the problem is, this argument is cylindrical and just keeps going round and round. This particular thread will disappear down the list shortly, but in another few weeks something similar will pop back up, people asking for her again, or someone else, etc. The best , and tbh, the fairest option/idea we've seen on the forums so far is the sub token idea, which several people have brought up or refined, in several threads. 1 month sub , 1 token, you can build it up, subbing constantly or part time, which ever you like. And have a vendor that can sell older rewards for the tokens.