The Unofficial Appearance Customization Thread

[JeramieCrowe]

Nothing you just said helps Bioware.

 

You admit Bioware went with a less flexible design. One that will take them more man hours to complete, and that offers nothing over an appearance tab, just on the say so of the players?

 

No, I didn't. I said that there are a few people who erroneously think that the a-tab is the ONLY flexible design. 1.2 offers just as much flexibility as an a-tab, but with a better design.

 

Really, because that sounds like a management issue.

 

If one of my people came up to me and said "hey, we have this new way of setting steel girders for the building, but it takes more work and doesn't offer as much flexibility if an earthquake hits," do you want to know what I would say?

 

Anything that encompasses design should only take more work if it offers greater rewards.

 

The flexibility of 1.2's design is not only just as flexible as an a-tab, but offers a more rewarding experience to achieving your look than an a-tab. The proof of that is in the pudding. I already have guildies and players saying how good it feels to complete an outfit, and these are people I've gamed with through SWG, EQ2, Warhammer, LotRO, etc. All have said how much better the current design is than an a-tab.

 

So, it does offer greater rewards for the effort put in.

 

Anecdotal? Of course. Not all rewards are tangible...

Edited March 29, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[illgot]

In your opinion it doesn't offer anything over an appearance tab, but that's just your opinion.

 

Would an appearance tab be convenient? Sure, but I'd much rather put some effort into custom tailoring my look and stats. I'm glad they went with the system they did, even if it is still getting ironed out. I have an entire cargo hold chock full with orange items that I can switch out if I get tired of my current look. It's fun collecting them all. I look forward to trying different options and matching them to my chest theme.

 

 

It's funny that Bioware gets called lazy with their approach to this game by most people, and then they get insulted for trying something innovative instead of taking the lazy way out like every other developer. They're damned either way.

 

There is nothing lazy about the orange mod system. The orange mod system is more cumbersome, more work intensive for everyone involved, especially the developers, and less flexible than an appearance tab system.

 

And again, no one for an appearance tab system is saying Bioware should get rid of the modification system. If a player enjoys constantly transferring up to 40 mods to change their characters appearance, no one is going to stop them. Adding in an appearance tab only allows players to store multiple outfits and change on the fly.

[JeramieCrowe]

There is nothing lazy about the orange mod system. The orange mod system is more cumbersome, more work intensive for everyone involved, especially the developers, and less flexible than an appearance tab system.

 

1.2 makes it JUST as flexible. And 1.2 isn't all. It's still going to have more flexibility and ease built in.

 

And again, no one for an appearance tab system is saying Bioware should get rid of the modification system. If a player enjoys constantly transferring up to 40 mods to change their characters appearance, no one is going to stop them. Adding in an appearance tab only allows players to store multiple outfits and change on the fly.

 

Are you purposely being obtuse with this statement? How is it, then, than I can switch between 4 outfits at will, all BiS slotted, without paying a single credit? I don't have to transfer ANY mods. At all.

Edited March 29, 2012 by JeramieCrowe

[DawnAskham]

It's hardly a grind. You have your orange piece, you get a new piece of gear. It takes all of 2 seconds to pull the mods out and put them in the orange piece. Done. It's exactly the same as an appearance tab, but you also get the benefit of being able to customize your stats however you like all in one system.

 

 

I honestly don't understand why people don't get this. An appearance tab is the lazy way out.

 

It isn't the same as an appearance tab, and they don't have to be mutually exclusive.

 

The mod system's most basic function is to allow a player to customize or upgrade their stats, independent of appearance.

 

This does have the side effect of allowing players to change their appearance by moving all mods from one item to another, but only if BOTH item are modifiable.

 

An appearance tab's most basic function would be to allow a player to customize or upgrade their appearance, independent of stats.

 

Right now, and post 1.2, we will be limited to what appearances can be used by which armor models are available in a modifiable shell, and to a limited extent for min / maxers, to which armor models are available in a crit-crafted modifiable shell.

 

I like the mod system as a way to customize my stats. I don't like the mod system as a way to customize my appearance.

 

I feel having an appearance tab that allows me to set my appearance to whatever I like INDEPENDENT of what I do to customize my stats would be the best of both worlds.

 

EDIT TO ADD FOR THE POSTER ABOVE:

 

A couple of points. No system would change the ability to farm up two, three, four or however many sets of gear you want to keep so that you can swap between them by simply equipping different sets (though it does bring up the desire for an equipment manager).

 

I too have played many games and I too have spoken to friends and guild members and such. Yes, I and many other like the mod system. Yes, we feel they are improving it in 1.2. No, we don't have problems searching for and farming up sets we like that are available.

 

What we do have a problem with is that MANY armor models we like ARE NOT available in a modifiable form.

 

Why is it hard to understand that many of the appearance tab people simply want the ability to use any of the existing in-game armor models that Bioware has designed as their appearance model, regardless of whether Bioware gets around to making a modifiable version?

Edited March 29, 2012 by DawnAskham

[illgot]

1.2 makes it JUST as flexible. And 1.2 isn't all. It's still going to have more flexibility and ease built in.

 

Are you purposely being obtuse with this statement? How is it, then, than I can switch between 4 outfits at will, all BiS slotted, without paying a single credit? I don't have to transfer ANY mods. At all.

 

Is anyone saying they take away the orange mod system? Do you really think the orange mod system and appearance tab can not exist in the game at the same time?

 

Before Bioware developed the orange modification system, which everyone in beta told them was a bad design choice, players could already use every design in the game and all crafted items could have augment slots.

 

In beta every green, blue, and purple item in game was fully modable. Any crafted item could have an augment slot. Bioware actually made their system worse by making all armor mods neutral, locking down the mods in everything, and only making certain items modifiable.

 

Do you not understand that the modification system is fine, that by adding in an appearance tab people will have greater flexibility to change their look on the fly without it taking up inventory space and without having to manually change out 40 mods just to retain their stats.

 

I'll repeat, having an appearance tab does not mean destroy the modification system.

Edited March 29, 2012 by illgot

[JeramieCrowe]

Is anyone saying they take away the orange mod system? Do you think that to have an appearance tab means Bioware can not have their modification system and an appearance tab?

 

From BioWare's standpoint, yes. They're not really big on redundancy of features...

 

Before Biuware developed the orange modification system, which everyone in beta told them was a bad design choice, players could already use every design in the game and all crafted items could have augment slots.

 

In beta every green, blue, and purple item in game was fully modable. Any crafted item could have an augment slot. Bioware actually made their system worse by making all armor mods neutral, locking down the mods in everything, and only making certain items modifiable.

 

That's your opinion. I remember that system as totally flawed, it completely left out the crafter, and had only negative impacts to the economy. It wasn't the peaches'n'cream you're trying to make it sound.

 

Do you not understand that the modification system is fine, that by adding in an appearance tab people will have greater flexibility to change their look on the fly without it taking up inventory space and without having to manually change out 40 mods just to retain their stats.

 

I'll repeat, having an appearance tab does not mean destroy the modification system.

 

They won't have greater flexibility. They will only have a more convenient way to do something that should take more effort.

 

It's only redundancy.

[JeramieCrowe]

What we do have a problem with is that MANY armor models we like ARE NOT available in a modifiable form.

 

YET.

 

Currently, all green items have an orange variant, it's just a matter of getting the rest of the schems from Underworld trading.

 

1.2 has ALL purple gear FULLY modifiable.

 

That means that once 1.2 hits, ALL armor models in the game will be available in a modifiable form.

[Kendaric]

1.2 makes it JUST as flexible. And 1.2 isn't all. It's still going to have more flexibility and ease built in.

 

Unfortunately not. The mod system is, even in 1.2, rather inflexible in regards to visual appearance due to the limited number of orange outfits available (especially craftable ones).

While I like the mod system, in it's current implementation it's just not sufficient for me due to the lack of choices.

 

YET.

 

Currently, all green items have an orange variant, it's just a matter of getting the rest of the schems from Underworld trading.

 

No, there are still a number of green outfits missing and most certainly not all available orange outfits are craftable.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Kendaric

[Rekkx]

I got thinking.

Yes, it happens rarely and when it does certain kittens spontaneously combust through sheer incredulation but, and bear with me here, what if there was a new crafting class whose specialisation was to make the unmoddable gear, moddable?

 

Of course they would need raw materials just like the rest etc, but how social and in demand would these people be???

 

I think it would be a great profession!

[Matte_Black]

Is anyone saying they take away the orange mod system? Do you really think the orange mod system and appearance tab can not exist in the game at the same time?

 

Before Bioware developed the orange modification system, which everyone in beta told them was a bad design choice, players could already use every design in the game and all crafted items could have augment slots.

 

In beta every green, blue, and purple item in game was fully modable. Any crafted item could have an augment slot. Bioware actually made their system worse by making all armor mods neutral, locking down the mods in everything, and only making certain items modifiable.

 

Do you not understand that the modification system is fine, that by adding in an appearance tab people will have greater flexibility to change their look on the fly without it taking up inventory space and without having to manually change out 40 mods just to retain their stats.

 

I'll repeat, having an appearance tab does not mean destroy the modification system.

 

What would be "added" by applying appearance tabs over the mod system are not things the devs want to add. They'd actually cut against the intended time and money sinks that serve to keep people playing as well as add a sense achievement to those players' final collected looks of signature, high-performance gear. Most of an appearance tab system would be redundant and much of the functionality that wouldn't be is not wanted by BioWare and many players.

[JeramieCrowe]

Unfortunately not. The mod system is, even in 1.2, rather inflexible in regards to visual appearance due to the limited number of orange outfits available (especially craftable ones).

While I like the mod system, in it's current implementation it's just not sufficient for me due to the lack of choices.

 

I just see an inability for people to wait on UTs to get all the schems. Because ALL green armor has an orange variant. ALL of them.

 

No, there are still a number of green outfits missing and most certainly not all available orange outfits are craftable.

 

Again, just because not all schems have critted out of UT yet (which, btw, is being fixed in 1.2) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Matte_Black]

Unfortunately not. The mod system is, even in 1.2, rather inflexible in regards to visual appearance due to the limited number of orange outfits available (especially craftable ones).

While I like the mod system, in it's current implementation it's just not sufficient for me due to the lack of choices.

 

I can attest to the mod system not being as flexible from the perspective of frequent costume changes but, it offers all the customization variety appearance tabs would have plus, the added ability to customize your stats. Any look/stat combination you could have had with appearance tabs is available once you collect the neccessary parts.

[illgot]

I can attest to the mod system not being as flexible from the perspective of frequent costume changes but, it offers all the customization variety appearance tabs would have plus, the added ability to customize your stats. Any look/stat combination you could have had with appearance tabs is available once you collect the neccessary parts.

 

White items have no option in part of the orange mod system. These can not be crafted or reverse engineered into wearable orange items. Which is sad, more than a few of the white items have a nice model and skin combination.

 

I know an appearance tab will never happen. The modification system was developed first and Bioware does not have the time or funds to co-develop another system which offers similar options.

 

We'll have to wait for the next generation of games before something like this becomes as standard as skill resets.

[VicSkimmr]

Unfortunately not. The mod system is, even in 1.2, rather inflexible in regards to visual appearance due to the limited number of orange outfits available (especially craftable ones).

While I like the mod system, in it's current implementation it's just not sufficient for me due to the lack of choices.

 

 

 

No, there are still a number of green outfits missing and most certainly not all available orange outfits are craftable.

 

You're basing your opinion on the PTS that has very very few people testing it and the system may not even be functioning correctly.

 

We're basing our opinions on what the devs have told us will be happening in 1.2.

[JeramieCrowe]

White items have no option in part of the orange mod system. These can not be crafted or reverse engineered into wearable orange items. Which is sad, more than a few of the white items have a nice model and skin combination.

 

I have yet to find a white item that did not was not repeated in a green item, which means there is an orange variant.

 

I know an appearance tab will never happen. The modification system was developed first and Bioware does not have the time or funds to co-develop another system which offers similar options.

 

We'll have to wait for the next generation of games before something like this becomes as standard as skill resets.

 

It's not about time or resources. If one dev, AdeptStrain, can design the a-tab solely on his lunch breaks, it's not a difficult endeavor for a team.

 

What is it about? I'll let Damion Schubert explain:

 

We’re not other games. And none of those 'other games' have the same feature set as each other, anyway. Each of them has had a different design philosophy, a different focus, a different set of problems to deal with, etc. And ours will be different still.

 

There are a lot of features that these games have that we don’t have. There are a lot of features we have that they don’t have – and likely never will. Features have a substantial cost – not just a cost to develop, in this case, but a cost to design, worldbuild, build art for, QA and support for years to come. The senior design leads spend a lot of time comparing the various features, and figuring out what will make the best package of combined features – i.e. the experience that we call the game.

 

Because really, no feature exists in a vacuum. It’s all good and well to say “This game must have Baby Seal Clubbing because game XXX had Baby Seal Clubbing 10 years ago and so this game is going to be like one built by primitive cavemen designers who had no idea of the magic of Baby Seal Clubbing!” But the MMO genre is so established now that the possibility space for features is very large, and no, not all of them will make it in. For every feature, there’s a lot more discussion that happens amongst the designers. Does this feature support or fight the other features in the game? Does the feature highlight what we’re trying to do, or elevate the IP, or serve part of the populace that is currently underserved? Put shortly, is this feature right for the game? Or is there a better place we can spend all those resources to make something truly magical?

 

Because at the end of the day, we’re not trying to make 'just another MMO but with lightsabers'. We don’t want to blindly include features because some of our competitors are doing so. We want SWTOR to be its own experience and its own identity, and this occasionally means doing things differently and taking some chances.

 

Does this mean that Baby Seal Clubbing will make it in? Well, I fought for it, but no.

 

The bolded enlarged portion specifically.

[Matte_Black]

We'll have to wait for the next generation of games before something like this becomes as standard as skill resets.

 

The mod system may be a sort of new method but, I don't look at it as linearly as some sort of generationaly thing. It's a design choice the devs feel is right for this game. I don't view as a leap ahead or a step back, just a different way of doing it.

 

That said, there are better ways to offer the sort of appearance flexibility and variety you want than with appearance tabs. If a game once that sort disconnect between appearance and stats, they should just make them totally separate as opposed to creating an extra layer of unseen imagery.

[illgot]

You're basing your opinion on the PTS that has very very few people testing it and the system may not even be functioning correctly.

 

We're basing our opinions on what the devs have told us will be happening in 1.2.

 

Even if they do not get every item in 1.2, Bioware will be tweaking their system constantly each week.

 

The mod system may be a sort of new method but, I don't look at it as linearly as some sort of generationaly thing. It's a design choice the devs feel is right for this game. I don't view as a leap ahead or a step back, just a different way of doing it.

 

That said, there are better ways to offer the sort of appearance flexibility and variety you want than with appearance tabs. If a game once that sort disconnect between appearance and stats, they should just make them totally separate as opposed to creating an extra layer of unseen imagery.

 

The way games are going, I can easily see developers swaying towards separating stats and appearances. More and more games are starting to separate the two functions for a number of reasons.

 

Especially with micro-transactions becoming more popular, it will be easier to sell outfits vs gear with stats already attached to them.

Edited March 29, 2012 by illgot

[AFKGCWBOT]

They already have an Appearance tab, was in beta. They're just holding it off for a few months so they can bring subscribers back. It's called dirty marketing and EA's little team of developers in the SWTOR department of bioware knows it.

 

I'm here for the long run, there's no need to hide other parts of the game from players. It just pisses off the few that DO enjoy the game.

Edited March 29, 2012 by AFKGCWBOT

[JeramieCrowe]

They already have an Appearance tab, was in beta. They're just holding it off for a few months so they can bring subscribers back. It's called dirty marketing and EA's little team of developers in the SWTOR department of bioware knows it.

 

I'm here for the long run, there's no need to hide other parts of the game from players. It just pisses off the few that DO enjoy the game.

 

Sorry, I seem to have misplaced my tinfoil hat...

[VicSkimmr]

Even if they do not get every item in 1.2, Bioware will be tweaking their system constantly each week.

 

Exactly. If that's what they say is happening, I trust that it will happen.

[Deewe]

The bolded enlarged portion specifically.

Yes I love the part where they spent time on the rail shooter vs having things like Pazaak, pod racing, world PvP, more body customization, alien species, LFG sytem, guild banks, a more optimized engine, good shadows, more than one type of weapon per AC, a decent UI, housing furnishing, gear dyes, etc.

 

 

The mod system may be a sort of new method but, I don't look at it as linearly as some sort of generationaly thing. It's a design choice the devs feel is right for this game. I don't view as a leap ahead or a step back, just a different way of doing it.

 

That said, there are better ways to offer the sort of appearance flexibility and variety you want than with appearance tabs. If a game once that sort disconnect between appearance and stats, they should just make them totally separate as opposed to creating an extra layer of unseen imagery.

It's indeed a step back for multiple reasons:

 

1) The UI to manage and maintain mods is tedious at best

2) It offers less flexibility than an appearance tab

3) It's less convenient to switch gear and sets on the spot (in fact it's impossible at this time)

4) There are not even gear dyes

5) You can't hide gear parts but the head, especially not the cloaks and the shoulder pads

6) Mods + gear takes more database room than items only

Edited March 30, 2012 by Deewe

[JeramieCrowe]

Yes I love the part where they spent time on the rail shooter vs having things like Pazaak, pod racing, world PvP, more body customization, alien species, LFG sytem, guild banks, a more optimized engine, good shadows, more than one type of weapon per AC, a decent UI, housing furnishing, gear dyes, etc.

 

You forgot virtual reality, odor/aroma feedback, rumble packs, compatibility with full 360° Virtusphere hardware, full VO that can actually say your name, integrated Facebook, facial recognition software for characters, and AI that feeds you and waters you and escorts you to the bathroom.

 

Seriously, dude, give it a rest. No game has EVERYTHING...

[LingormR]

Add in Afros. Let my dream come true on becoming an Afro Jedi.

[Apollonel]

i support the idea

[Deewe]

You forgot virtual reality, odor/aroma feedback, rumble packs, compatibility with full 360° Virtusphere hardware, full VO that can actually say your name, integrated Facebook, facial recognition software for characters, and AI that feeds you and waters you and escorts you to the bathroom.

 

Seriously, dude, give it a rest. No game has EVERYTHING...

No I was just mentioning features from others MMO or from KOTOR. you know things that have been done and are realistic contrary to your entries.

 

We all know you are fine with the actual system. I'm one among others thinking it can and has to be improved and it will benefits the players at a whole.

 

On this topic you keep criticizing others that don't bend to your liking but never provide suggestions to make things different or better. So why are you wasting your time because obviously you have nothing to add to the discussion?

 

As example Matte_Black and I stands on a separate side of the fence still he deserves respect for things like this:

 

Setting aside appearance tabs for now since they don't appear to be in the offing no matter their reported popularity or validity, what area of appearance customization is most in need of further development?

• Armor Dyes?
  
• Post creation avatar changes?
  
• More Avatar Options?
  
• More Races?
  
• Specific pieces of armor?
  
• Companion issues?
  
• Others?