The Unofficial Appearance Customization Thread

[Deewe]

Simply put players should not be obliged to wear any gear piece to min/max out their characters.

 

You should not be required to choose between look or stats.

 

I did not say all the exiting gear meshes and textures have to be easily obtainable. But once you get stats you want to use you must not be required to look a specific way.

[illgot]

Crit-crafted gear is intended to be rare and something you chase. They won't be handing it out it's bonus on every piece of existing orange. Yes, it will be the hypothetical best but, I would not expect to see alot of people with full sets of it for some time.

 

Trust me, it is not that rare. You can crit low level orange gear pretty easy. It has a low production time and cost. Just gather the mats and wait until 1.2 hits.

 

Simply put players should not be obliged to wear any gear piece to min/max out their characters.

 

You should not be required to choose between look or stats.

 

I did not say all the exiting gear meshes and textures have to be easily obtainable. But once you get stats you want to use you must not be required to look a specific way.

 

The weird thing I find on forums is the same people that say looks don't matter tell others that they should pay a heavy price if they want to change their looks.

Edited March 24, 2012 by illgot

[Matte_Black]

Yeah, they lied. Thus, by extension, their orange mod system being a substitute for an appearance tab is crap.

 

Where did they state that the mod system was a substitute for an appearance tab?

 

I understand the frustration and dissatisfaction that they did not give you what you wanted but, they did not lie about attempting to offer a substitute for appearance tabs. Most of the comments I read and we deconstructed here at length talked about going a different way for appearance customization than appearance tabs, not trying to do what appearance tabs do.

 

It's been well-established in this thread that the major difference between the mod system and appearance tabs was the effort and expense of creating looks and the how much harder it would be to change between looks than with appearance tabs. BioWare's intention has been apparent to most of us for a while, It's providing a wide range of looks and engaging the player in acquiring and creating them not a dress-up tool.

[Tricky-Ha]

It's going to cost alot of friggin credits to remove mods from endgame gear & put it into Oranges.

 

Bioware seems incapable of finding a middle ground, a compromise that can probably make the most amount of people happy. They always nerf something too far in one direction I think. Color match doesn't work at launch? Get rid of it & get rid of half of the gear in beta too cause it's too much gear & the players might get confused.

 

I'm still really cross that I'm expected to pay much too much credits to use what is basically BioWare's version of the appearance tab in MMO's. Every other MMO I played that had an a-tab, it was free to use it to customize the look of my character how ever I wanted to.

 

I wonder if BioWare's once again taking notes from Blizzard's playbook? I'll bet they are NOT charging their playerbase as much equivalent gold to transmorgrify their WoW gear, so that 2 armor pieces meld into one better looking piece. I'll bet ya, we're getting charged more than Blizzard charges their playerbase so they have access to appearance customization.

[Deewe]

The weird thing I find on forums is the same people that say looks don't matter tell others that they should pay a heavy price if they want to change their looks.

Noticed that too. Along people saying they need to recognize others in PvP by their used gear and you find them admitting in other posts they have fun ganking others.

[illgot]

Where did they state that the mod system was a substitute for an appearance tab?

 

I understand the frustration and dissatisfaction that they did not give you what you wanted but, they did not lie about attempting to offer a substitute for appearance tabs. Most of the comments I read and we deconstructed here at length talked about going a different way for appearance customization than appearance tabs, not trying to do what appearance tabs do.

 

It's been well-established in this thread that the major difference between the mod system and appearance tabs was the effort and expense of creating looks and the how much harder it would be to change between looks than with appearance tabs. BioWare's intention has been apparent to most of us for a while, It's providing a wide range of looks and engaging the player in acquiring and creating them not a dress-up tool.

 

Back in beta all gear was modable. Then they locked down the mods near the end of beta and only allowed blue and purple to be fully modable. And at the end of beta they introduced the orange mod system and locked down the mods in blues and purples.

 

SR stated that the new orange mod system was to allow players the ability to look how they wish while retaining the stats they wanted. He also stated that every green and blue item would have an orange version... which still hasn't happened. There are a lot of colour schemes and models out there without an orange equivalent.

Edited March 24, 2012 by illgot

[Tricky-Ha]

Matte is right.

 

BioWare never made any promises of anything like an a-tab. That's all been us, trying to push the idea onto them. Still trying to force the idea onto them.

[Matte_Black]

It's going to cost alot of friggin credits to remove mods from endgame gear & put it into Oranges.

 

Bioware seems incapable of finding a middle ground, a compromise that can probably make the most amount of people happy. They always nerf something too far in one direction I think. Color match doesn't work at launch? Get rid of it & get rid of half of the gear in beta too cause it's too much gear & the players might get confused.

 

I'm still really cross that I'm expected to pay much too much credits to use what is basically BioWare's version of the appearance tab in MMO's. Every other MMO I played that had an a-tab, it was free to use it to customize the look of my character how ever I wanted to.

 

I wonder if BioWare's once again taking notes from Blizzard's playbook? I'll bet they are NOT charging their playerbase as much equivalent gold to transmorgrify their WoW gear, so that 2 armor pieces meld into one better looking piece. I'll bet ya, we're getting charged more than Blizzard charges their playerbase so they have access to appearance customization.

 

I can definitely agree that they shouldn't be going overboard with the costs and efforts needed to attain some of these things but, there is reason for such investment to exist.

 

1. It keeps the player engaged in the content and from sitting around being bored and leaving or becoming troublesome.
    
   
2. It also helps keep rare items rare. Some players will chase what they want and many will pass on what they don't. If everything becomes easy to get, your unique look will be copied more easily.
    
   
3. It also gives what you attain a sense of achievement and accomplishment.
    
   
4. In the case of rare crafted gear, it even drives players to network among the crafting community to find who might have a specific item available.
   

Ultimately, what is "easy", "grindy" or "just right" is not going to be universally agreed on. Appearance tab fans probably will never embrace working for each signature look over the fluidity they desire. I do think negotiating a balance will be an ongoing process that will make or break the system and I suspect that it will change up to the 1.2 release and will continue to be tweaked as the players get used to it.

Edited March 24, 2012 by Matte_Black

[Deewe]

Matte is right.

 

BioWare never made any promises of anything like an a-tab. That's all been us, trying to push the idea onto them. Still trying to force the idea onto them.

Don't bet on this

 

 

When Blizzard unveiled Transmogrification:

 

Quote:

Silvara1 Kerry

@Rockjaw Can you clarify if SWTOR will have dressing room & appearance tab options? As haven't found any info regarding these options yet?

 

Stephen Reid

@Silvara1 Both something we want, but possibly not for launch.

18 hours ago via Twitter for iPad

 

Source

 

BTW before WoW announcement they've always been against appearance tabs.

[Matte_Black]

Matte is right.

 

BioWare never made any promises of anything like an a-tab. That's all been us, trying to push the idea onto them. Still trying to force the idea onto them.

 

MMO forums seem to have a long tradition of people posting how the developers lied when they don't deliver on specific assumptions the poster assumed would be delivered with no hard evidence to have based it on.

[Tricky-Ha]

Don't bet on this

 

 

When Blizzard unveiled Transmogrification:

 

 

 

Source

 

BTW before WoW announcement they've always been against appearance tabs.

 

Oh I know that quote very well Deewe, unfortunately it cannot be construed as an *official* BioWare promise. I've tried to shove those words into Steph's face so many times & someone in charge finally responded to me in an PM, very harshly I might add, letting me know what the real deal is. Message was personal so I'll keep it that way, but I got the point very clearly.

[Matte_Black]

Don't bet on this

 

 

When Blizzard unveiled Transmogrification:

 

 

 

Source

 

BTW before WoW announcement they've always been against appearance tabs.

 

Fair enough, maybe Stephen Reid lied to you. Of course he promised nothing and we have no idea what he wanted then. Now show me where BioWare confirmed or reposted that tweet you are calling a promise.

[JeramieCrowe]

Yeah, they lied. Thus, by extension, their orange mod system being a substitute for an appearance tab is crap.

 

 

 

Most of the changes they made in 1.2 for appearances is just a reversal of what they already had in beta.

 

Features in beta:

 

Colour matching system - taken out at the end of beta

 

All items modable - taken out at the end of beta

 

Specific armor mods (Feet, Chest, etc) - taken out at the end of beta

 

The only "new" feature is the ability to have an augment slot on orange crit gear. But this is only an issue orange gear appeared at the very end of beta as a replacement for having all gear modable.

 

Bioware wasted a huge amount of time flopping back and forth on how their armor system worked. Which could have easily been solved by adding in an appearance tab which offers more flexibility for the players and less work for the devs.

 

Actually, you couldn't be more wrong. Emmanuel lined out EXACTLY why it was removed, and this new system provides far and away MUCH better customizability with less negative impact to crafters and the economy.

 

Seriously, read it. I was there, and I remember that the system in beta was FAR from the peaches'n'cream some people try to push.

[illgot]

the high cost of remoding gear does not give people more to "chase". It only forces people to settle with changing their gear maybe once or twice before they settle with an acceptable look.

 

An appearance tab function similar to LoTR gives people something to chase. It allows players to constantly play and search the game for new outfit combinations that they can change on the fly. Because there was no cost to changing their look, people often went after things they weren't even serious about for seasonal events or just a little RP.

 

If the cost is too high, most people will just settle into one look.

Edited March 24, 2012 by illgot

[JeramieCrowe]

the high cost of remoding gear does not give people more to "chase". It only forces people to settle with changing you gear maybe once or twice before you just settle with a look you can live with.

 

An appearance tab function similar to LoTR gives people something to chase. It allows players to constantly play and search the game for new outfit combinations that they can change on the fly. Because there was no cost to changing your look, people often went after things they weren't even serious about for seasonal events or just a little RP.

 

If the cost is too high to alter your appearance while still being viable, most people will just settle into one look.

 

I've always been one in pretty much every iteration of this thread saying, "I definitely want an a-tab rather than nothing, but it's high time that the tired old UI overlay be replaced with something more realistic, dynamic, and actually involve CUSTOMIZATION." Then this system was announced, and we got not only appearance flexibility but stat customization, too!

 

Seriously, it's time to transcend the clunky old UI overlay...

[JeramieCrowe]

Conversation that I literally JUST NOW had with a guildie:

 

"I love it when I complete an outfit!"

 

"Very satisfying, isn't it?"

 

"Oh, definitely!"

 

"I dare say it's more rewarding than a simple a-tab."

 

[Matte_Black]

Conversation that I literally JUST NOW had with a guildie:

 

"I love it when I complete an outfit!"

 

"Very satisfying, isn't it?"

 

"Oh, definitely!"

 

"I dare say it's more rewarding than a simple a-tab."

 

 

Yep, how do you think he'd feel if another guildie ran to the bazaar and copied it instantly?

[Tricky-Ha]

I've always been one in pretty much every iteration of this thread saying, "I definitely want an a-tab rather than nothing, but it's high time that the tired old UI overlay be replaced with something more realistic, dynamic, and actually involve CUSTOMIZATION." Then this system was announced, and we got not only appearance flexibility but stat customization, too!

 

Seriously, it's time to transcend the clunky old UI overlay...

 

Yeah, but c'mon, man...

 

Didn't you want a customization system that offered the same amount of options that an a-tab would've given us, namely being able to conveniently mod more than one set of gear around.

[Tricky-Ha]

Yep, how do you think he'd feel if another guildie ran to the bazaar and copied it instantly?

 

*pretends that Matte_Black had asked me*

 

Oh, I wouldn't care. I'm just glad to finally have the look I wanted & I'm sure that other person is equally as glad as I, so that is all that matters. Since we're in a Mando themed guild, now lets see if we can convice other members to go to the GTN or work with our crafters to get these same sets of gear so we can have a "Mando guild uniform" thingy going on, Kandosii!

Edited March 24, 2012 by Tricky-Ha

[JeramieCrowe]

Yeah, but c'mon, man...

 

Didn't you want a customization system that offered the same amount of options that an a-tab would've given us, namely being able to conveniently mod more than one set of gear around.

 

Currently, on my Smuggler, I have 4 complete outfits. On my BH, I have 2 complete outfits. All 8 character slots full, each has at least one complete outfit. Once 1.2 hits, I'll be able to build sets with set bonuses and augments, especially since all appearances in the entire game will be craftable. I don't see the problem?

[Roechacca]

/support

[Innocences]

I wish BW would make all level old orange L47 gear or higher come with an augment. I literally spent weeks searching for gear I like and I've not seem them ever since. So am I ever going to be able to get the same gear with augment slots? We are talking one augment slot and at level 47+ it's not going to make any difference. If I take my current orange gear and reverse engineer it what happens? Am I able to get a green blue print and roll it into another orange? I like the idea of orange being the best but I hate to lose the look I have since all the consular gear looks like crap.

[illgot]

An appearance tab gives a player reason to go out and collect different looks.

 

Because they can change their look on the fly and without great cost, people will spend more time gathering outfits for casual RPing, one time events, or even a night of goofing off.

 

If however they have to spend nearly 600k each time they want to change their look, then few people will bother doing it more than once or twice. There will be one main "look" and very few people will ever change that with such a high cost.

 

How many people here are willing to spend 1.2 million credits just to change their look for an evening of RPing or do run a guild event?

 

Hell even Bioware admitted at the guild summit that very few people had over 1 million credits, and they want us to pay almost 600k to change our appearance?

 

Once Blizzard introduced their appearance system, which is relatively cheap, people started having fun with it. They are still raving about it on their forums about how much they love being able to change their look on the fly.

 

People have spent weeks collecting items in old instances, buying and trading rare designs, and even having whole nights where everyone dressed for an occasion.

 

Do you ever see that happening in TOR with a price tag of 600k for every time you want to change your look end game?

 

Blizzard is a smart company. The sheer fact that they expanded the MMO market by tens of thousands proves that. Blizzard understood that to have fun with an appearance system you can not tie it down with restrictions based on stats. Bioware does not understand this. I have no idea why after copying so much from World of Warcraft they had to go and create such a crappy "innovative" appearance system like their orange mod gear (which is not as innovative as people think as it has been done is other MMOs).

Edited March 25, 2012 by illgot

[Matte_Black]

An appearance tab gives a player reason to go out and collect different looks.

 

Because they can change their look on the fly and without great cost, people will spend more time gathering outfits for casual RPing, one time events, or even a night of goofing off.

 

If however they have to spend nearly 600k each time they want to change their look, then few people will bother doing it more than once or twice. There will be one main "look" and very few people will ever change that with such a high cost.

 

How many people here are willing to spend 1.2 million credits just to change their look for an evening of RPing or do run a guild event?

 

Hell even Bioware admitted at the guild summit that very few people had over 1 million credits, and they want us to pay almost 600k to change our appearance?

 

Once Blizzard introduced their appearance system, which is relatively cheap, people started having fun with it. They are still raving about it on their forums about how much they love being able to change their look on the fly.

 

People have spent weeks collecting items in old instances, buying and trading rare designs, and even having whole nights where everyone dressed for an occasion.

 

Do you ever see that happening in TOR with a price tag of 600k for every time you want to change your look end game?

 

Blizzard is a smart company. The sheer fact that they expanded the MMO market by tens of thousands proves that. Blizzard understood that to have fun with an appearance system you can not tie it down with restrictions based on stats. Bioware does not understand this. I have no idea why after copying so much from World of Warcraft they had to go and create such a crappy "innovative" appearance system like their orange mod gear (which is not as innovative as people think as it has been done is other MMOs).

 

First off, you do not need to change every mod slot in every item slot to change your look. You can have a very different look by swapping the chest piece of another color and hiding your headgear and that would be far less than 600k. It also does not take into account the inevitable number of spare mods that players could leave in their other look. I'll admit that they could scale down the cost some but, it should be meaningful amount. (I personally feel a full swap out should be more around 200k but, I'd suggest that come through skill based discounts.) I think you'll see alot more people spending more like 200-300k to radically swap their looks than you will see spending 600k to swap every mod.

 

Your example assumes that RP needs to happen in BIS gear. Sure we'd like to have our best but I view that as more of luxury. I don't why your evening of RP can't be done in your next best suit of mods and gear or your other sets you have set aside for PvE/PvP or (if we eventually get dual-speccing) the set we tweaked for our other build. If it really is an RP event, I have my doubts if you really need 100% optimization in your non-signature look.

[Kharnis]

Your example assumes that RP needs to happen in BIS gear. Sure we'd like to have our best but I view that as more of luxury. I don't why your evening of RP can't be done in your next best suit of mods and gear or your other sets you have set aside for PvE/PvP or (if we eventually get dual-speccing) the set we tweaked for our other build. If it really is an RP event, I have my doubts if you really need 100% optimization in your non-signature look.

 

So, according to you, you can RP or you can play the game, but you can't do both at the same time? Perhaps you should stick to arguing why the mod system is superior to an a-tab and stay away from anything relating to RP events.