Dear Story Team, What Year Are We Currently In?

[Ylliarus]

I tend to agree, but I believe the reason there's no official word here is that the devs don't want to adhere too closely to a set timeframe for fear of restricting what players want it to be, i.e. "nothing is canon except what you decide for yourself to be". There's also the possibility that the writing team doesn't want to open themselves up for attack over disrepancies and things like that. For instance,

containing all the different dialogue variants for the Kira and Scourge dialogue in Onslaught. They played the audio for a cut response from Kira saying it's been 6 years, which would suggest that everything from being thawed from carbonite to now was only a year of real time.

 

I understand of course that players want to have some degree of autonomy over the story they play. Even though it would make the lives of roleplayers a lot easier if we did have canon (canon in terms of SWTOR, not the wider Disney canon) versions of the story, such as knowing whether Acina or Vowrawn is the canon ruler of the Sith Empire, I understand the reasoning why the story team doesn't want to settle on that.

 

However, setting the date shouldn't be that big of a deal. There are other games and MMORPGs who openly state the date their story takes place in. I can't imagine that a player would get mad over the fact that the official timeline says its 24 ATC instead of the player's headcanon that it's 30 ATC, or something. In such instances, I don't think a player's headcanon should be more important than establishing clarity in terms of lore. And I don't think that setting what in-universe year the story takes place in, would cause a lot of complaints to arise.

 

The RP community already has to jump through hoops with all the story choices that lead to diverging continuities. Is Acina Empress, or is Vowrawn? Is Onderon falling to the Empire or still fully in the Republic? Did the Empire win the Battle of Corellia in Onslaught or did the Republic? Having at least clarity in regard to the date, would make the lives of a lot of RPers a lot easier.

[robertthebard]

This is going to seem a bit snarky, and it's not my intent, but isn't an approximation all you'd really need for RP purposes? What if the timeline they decide to use doesn't coincide with something you're expecting it to, is it then going to be similar to what we see when a protagonist has a relatively defined backstory? Just curious, really, because the general attitude, and justifiably so, is "the less specifics the better for RP reasons".

[Kiesu]

This is going to seem a bit snarky, and it's not my intent, but isn't an approximation all you'd really need for RP purposes? What if the timeline they decide to use doesn't coincide with something you're expecting it to, is it then going to be similar to what we see when a protagonist has a relatively defined backstory? Just curious, really, because the general attitude, and justifiably so, is "the less specifics the better for RP reasons".

 

Those of us who like keeping track of how many gray hairs out characters have, year is kinda important as its directly tied to our characters age. Its a big deal if you dont know if your character is 14 on 18 at this point, its a big difference.

[robertthebard]

Those of us who like keeping track of how many gray hairs out characters have, year is kinda important as its directly tied to our characters age. Its a big deal if you dont know if your character is 14 on 18 at this point, its a big difference.

 

None of that is controlled by what date a story line takes place. Your character was born before the events of the vanilla story. How old were they when they started that? Is it really your contention that you want someone else assigning that value for you, because that's exactly what would have to happen, if we're just looking at character age in relation to a story line.

 

The RP community sure has changed since I was an avid RPer. It used to be we didn't want someone telling us what our characters did, or for how long they did it, because we wanted to take care of that ourselves. One of the main beefs with DA 2, all those years ago, was how predefined Hawke was, and now? It seems like we're getting a dose of "Please predefine my character for me".

[Ylliarus]

This is going to seem a bit snarky, and it's not my intent, but isn't an approximation all you'd really need for RP purposes? What if the timeline they decide to use doesn't coincide with something you're expecting it to, is it then going to be similar to what we see when a protagonist has a relatively defined backstory? Just curious, really, because the general attitude, and justifiably so, is "the less specifics the better for RP reasons".

 

There are several types of roleplayer:

 

- You have the type of roleplayer that simply wants to headcanon things for their personal backstory or RP out story while playing the game. For those types of roleplayers, the less details are known the better. This is not the type of roleplay I speak of.

- The second group is what I would call the "mainstream" RP community. Those are the RPers who don't roleplay Darth Nox, Lord Wrath, the Barsen'tor or the Outlander/Commander. Those RPers don't RP the class stories or SWTOR's main story, but they RP in SWTOR's setting. This RP Community lives on the lore, as the lore stipulates what we can and can't do. In other words, we do Heavy RP, in the sense that we adhere closely to what the universe's lore says and we create our own stories within the setting of the game. For example, you'll have one guild that is RPed as the powerbase of a originally created Darth or Sith Lord, that has absolutely no relation to the Lord Wrath or Darth Nox. They're simply a Darth or Sith Lord in the Sith Empire. This RP community cannot properly function without clarity and elaboration from SWTOR's lore. Here, the rule is "the more elaborate and explicit the lore, the easier our time RPing is".

 

Since we already closely follow lore, any confirmation or official answer isn't going to affect us negatively. Instead, it will finally create clarity for all the guilds, individual RPers and RP projects that are going on in the community. We'll simply incorporate it into the RP we follow. If the official answer is that it's 25 ATC while some of the RP guilds in our community thought we were in 23 ATC, they'll simply gradually progress into 25 ATC over the course of the guild arcs and story events they create amongst themselves. That's how it has always been and function in the mainstream RP community I speak of.

 

If you are interested in learning more of the type of RP I described here, please feel free to have a look over at the Darth Malgus RP Enjin forums: https://malgus-rp.enjin.com/

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[Kiesu]

Your character was born before the events of the vanilla story.

 

Oh, so you haven't ever RPd in your life but think you are being clever. Gotcha.

 

Yea I definitely RP all my 10 Jedi Knights as the battlemaster slayer of Emperor and all my 60 other characters as the Outlander. Totally. Yeah. That sounds like a great RP. roflmao

Rookie argument.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Kiesu

[Ylliarus]

None of that is controlled by what date a story line takes place. Your character was born before the events of the vanilla story. How old were they when they started that? Is it really your contention that you want someone else assigning that value for you, because that's exactly what would have to happen, if we're just looking at character age in relation to a story line.

 

You misunderstand the various types of roleplaying and roleplayers. When I speak of RP, I don't mean that we roleplay the classes, the Outlander or the Commander. We RP our own original characters - with absolutely no relation to any of the classes or the class stories - within the setting of SWTOR. But the setting is what enables us to RP together, to maintain immersion and coherence in our RP. Perhaps this will help you understand:

 

SWTOR's lore for the "mainstream" RP community I speak of is like the laws of physics for our real universe. The lore creates the rules of what is possible and what isn't within the bounds of RP. If the lore is left vague or leaves open a lot of continuity divergences, the laws governing the RP community become unclear as well and fragment the community. One RPer might interpret lore in a certain way, while another player does in another way. This continiously creates conflict within the RP community, because one group may say "lore says this can happen" while another part contradicts it by saying "lore says it can't happen". This fragments our community into players who don't RP with one another. As a lot of inter-guild RP projects and plots depend on cooperation and mutual roleplaying, we need the clarity of lore to maintain the coherence of our various RP guilds and entities within the RP community. Without the clarity and detail of lore, our RP community cannot exist.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[robertthebard]

Oh, so you haven't ever RPd in your life but think you are being clever. Gotcha.

 

Yea I definitely RP all my 10 Jedi Knights as the battlemaster slayer of Emperor and all my 60 other characters as the Outlander. Totally. Yeah. That sounds like a great RP. roflmao

Rookie argument.

 

Here's a concept: Reply to what I said, instead of what you want me to have said? I know it's a novel idea, and makes it really hard to carry out conversations on the internet, but it will make things easier in the future, when I don't have to guess what your head canon of the conversation is going to be.

 

I was roleplaying when you couldn't roleplay on computers. When the "rules" were pamphlets, characters where pulled from the pages of a rather short rule book, and then fleshed out by the player. Basic world information was provided by one person, and everything else, including character age, was determined by the individual player.

[robertthebard]

You misunderstand the various types of roleplaying and roleplayers. When I speak of RP, I don't mean that we roleplay the classes, the Outlander or the Commander. We RP our own original characters - with absolutely no relation to any of the classes or the class stories - within the setting of SWTOR. But the setting is what enables us to RP together, to maintain immersion and coherence in our RP. Perhaps this will help you understand:

 

SWTOR's lore for the "mainstream" RP community I speak of is like the laws of physics for our real universe. The lore creates the rules of what is possible and what isn't within the bounds of RP. If the lore is left vague or leaves open a lot of continuity divergences, the laws governing the RP community become unclear as well and fragment the community. One RPer might interpret lore in a certain way, while another player does in another way. This continiously creates conflict within the RP community, because one group may say "lore says this can happen" while another part contradicts it by saying "lore says it can't happen". This fragments our community into players who don't RP with one another. As a lot of inter-guild RP projects and plots depend on cooperation and mutual roleplaying, we need the clarity of lore to maintain the coherence of our various RP guilds and entities within the RP community. Without the clarity and detail of lore, our RP community cannot exist.

 

No, I understand perfectly, and that's the problem here. I understand all too well that it's more a case of "I need someone to nail down details", instead of just rolling with what you have. It's nice that you have all these categories, and you probably don't have enough of them, but the core comes back to "It's my character, and I don't need someone else detailing it". The real issue is that hardcore RP has shifted from what it was, to something that is barely recognizable. Sure, we can watch them play out their character's lives where ever they happen to be doing it, but all this "I need someone else to tell me how old I am"? That wouldn't have been ideal, even in Neverwinter Nights.

 

The other problem is: How many players are in the same time line, even in the same group? I have about 16 toons that have never, and will never touch KotFE/KoTET. Do they cease to exist now because a RP guild has done all of it? Does the RP guild cease to exist because I haven't, and we can't all be in the same instance because we're not all on the same timeline? It's left ambiguous for a reason, and this is the reason, I suspect. It's a lot easier to just let players wiggle around in the time line, than to clearly define it, and restrict who can play with whom.

[JediQuaker]

Here's a concept: Reply to what I said, instead of what you want me to have said? I know it's a novel idea, and makes it really hard to carry out conversations on the internet, but it will make things easier in the future, when I don't have to guess what your head canon of the conversation is going to be.

Unfortunately, replying to what you've said is seems to no longer be part of modern discourse. 😏

[Ylliarus]

No, I understand perfectly, and that's the problem here. I understand all too well that it's more a case of "I need someone to nail down details", instead of just rolling with what you have. It's nice that you have all these categories, and you probably don't have enough of them, but the core comes back to "It's my character, and I don't need someone else detailing it". The real issue is that hardcore RP has shifted from what it was, to something that is barely recognizable. Sure, we can watch them play out their character's lives where ever they happen to be doing it, but all this "I need someone else to tell me how old I am"? That wouldn't have been ideal, even in Neverwinter Nights.

 

The other problem is: How many players are in the same time line, even in the same group? I have about 16 toons that have never, and will never touch KotFE/KoTET. Do they cease to exist now because a RP guild has done all of it? Does the RP guild cease to exist because I haven't, and we can't all be in the same instance because we're not all on the same timeline? It's left ambiguous for a reason, and this is the reason, I suspect. It's a lot easier to just let players wiggle around in the time line, than to clearly define it, and restrict who can play with whom.

 

You miss a big difference: in what you describe, you RP in a universe that is partially your own. Within SWTOR, we RP within the universe that someone else owns. Heavy RP relies on adhering to the canonically accepted lore, instead of creating your own or thinking up something. It's why headcanons are rarely accepted in the mainstream RP community I speak of. Perhaps an example for clarification:

 

On the Darth Malgus server, there is a guild that has accepted the headcanon that Sith Purebloods have the ability to live several centuries. However, this is not an accepted headcanon by the wider Darth Malgus community. Let's call the guild I spoke of that accepts the headcanon guild X. Suppose a Sith Pureblood character from guild X roleplays meeting a member of guild Y - a guild that does not accept the headcanon that Sith PBs can live for multiple centuries. The character from guild X however, is roleplayed to be 211 years old. When that character interacts with the character from guild Y, that forces the player behind the character from guild Y to accept in their RP that the Pureblood their character interacted with is 211 years old. This is something they don't want to do, as it contradicts the lore they follow. Out of courtesy, the player from guild Y will finish RPing with the player from guild X, but then refuse to roleplay with that player again, as they don't acknowledge the headcanon that Sith Purebloods can live for centuries. This creates a fracture in the RP community, as one player will not want to interact with the other. That is on a small scale, but the same happens on a larger scale. Guild Y will announce they will not interact with guild X, because the headcanon X follows contradicts the lore that guild Y follows. Suppose roleplayers between those two guilds had been roleplaying in a cross-guild RP project, that will fall apart.

 

Now, let's say in a future story update, there appears an ingame codex that clearly and directly states that Sith Purebloods can live for multiple centuries by natural affinity. That clarifies the lore that guild X followed and turns their headcanon into actual lore. That means that guilds who disputed the headcanon earlier, will accept and follow the new clarification of the lore. Where there was fragmentation before, lore has created coherence through clarity. Guild X and Guild Y will start interacting with one another again, because one's following of the lore doesn't contradict the other's anymore. Both guilds have to follow the newly added lore now, that Sith Purebloods can live for multiple centuries, taking away the point of contention in regard to lore.

 

Do you see how the clarity and detail of lore can fragment the RP community or bring it together? The same applies for dates. If guild X follows that the timeline is currently in 23 ATC but guild Y disagrees and says it's 25 ATC, that might create fragmentation based on the fact that the RP of one guild, would contradict the RP of another guild. But if the lore stipulates that the year is actually 24 ATC, then both guilds will follow that and instead be united in their RP. Now take into account that the Darth Malgus RP community alone contains dozens of RP guilds with hundreds of individual roleplayes. Each guild and RPer tries to follow lore as closely as possible, but differences in lore interpretation will always arise. However, if there is no ambiguity to cause contention based on interpretation, all the guilds and all the RPers will be able to RP together without conflict or trouble.

 

This is also why there are rules in the RP community, that prohibit roleplayers from creating characters that are "special snowflakes" with vastly unique powers or relations to existing characters. If one player creates a character that is the grandson of Darth Vowrawn and starts to RP with that character, other RPers will have to acknowledge that fact in their RP when they don't want to because it's not done in the RP community. Those RPers will not interact with the RPer roleplaying Darth Vowrawn's grandson and thus create fragmentation. As such, the rule is that no one RPs characters with a relation to existing characters. The same goes for special powers like Essence Transfer.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[Kiesu]

Here's a concept: Reply to what I said, instead of what you want me to have said? I know it's a novel idea, and makes it really hard to carry out conversations on the internet, but it will make things easier in the future, when I don't have to guess what your head canon of the conversation is going to be.

 

I was roleplaying when you couldn't roleplay on computers. When the "rules" were pamphlets, characters where pulled from the pages of a rather short rule book, and then fleshed out by the player. Basic world information was provided by one person, and everything else, including character age, was determined by the individual player.

 

You have an oddly narrow view of what RPing in swtor universe is for you level of "expertise" on the matter of RPing.

 

I quoted exactly the part of your post that was the most wrong on every level. Hard to miss mate.

You are suggesting all we ever RP is the character archs the game has given us. Not true in 90% of the time I've had an RP session withing this universe and timeline. Not true for most people who write fiction either, as I've noticed.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Kiesu

[robertthebard]

You miss a big difference: in what you describe, you RP in a universe that is partially your own. Within SWTOR, we RP within the universe that someone else owns. Heavy RP relies on adhering to the canonically accepted lore, instead of creating your own or thinking up something. It's why headcanons are rarely accepted in the mainstream RP community I speak of. Perhaps an example for clarification:

 

On the Darth Malgus server, there is a guild that has accepted the headcanon that Sith Purebloods have the ability to live several centuries. However, this is not an accepted headcanon by the wider Darth Malgus community. Let's call the guild I spoke of that accepts the headcanon guild X. Suppose a Sith Pureblood character from guild X roleplays meeting a member of guild Y - a guild that does not accept the headcanon that Sith PBs can live for multiple centuries. The character from guild X however, is roleplayed to be 211 years old. When that character interacts with the character from guild Y, that forces the player behind the character from guild Y to accept in their RP that the Pureblood their character interacted with is 211 years old. This is something they don't want to do, as it contradicts the lore they follow. Out of courtesy, the player from guild Y will finish RPing with the player from guild X, but then refuse to roleplay with that player again, as they don't acknowledge the headcanon that Sith Purebloods can live for centuries. This creates a fracture in the RP community, as one player will not want to interact with the other. That is on a small scale, but the same happens on a larger scale. Guild Y will announce they will not interact with guild X, because the headcanon X follows contradicts the lore that guild Y follows. Suppose roleplayers between those two guilds had been roleplaying in a cross-guild RP project, that will fall apart.

 

Now, let's say in a future story update, there appears an ingame codex that clearly and directly states that Sith Purebloods can live for multiple centuries by natural affinity. That clarifies the lore that guild X followed and turns their headcanon into actual lore. That means that guilds who disputed the headcanon earlier, will accept and follow the new clarification of the lore. Where there was fragmentation before, lore has created coherence through clarity. Guild X and Guild Y will start interacting with one another again, because one's following of the lore doesn't contradict the other's anymore. Both guilds have to follow the newly added lore now, that Sith Purebloods can live for multiple centuries, taking away the point of contention in regard to lore.

 

Do you see how the clarity and detail of lore can fragment the RP community or bring it together? The same applies for dates. If guild X follows that the timeline is currently in 23 ATC but guild Y disagrees and says it's 25 ATC, that might create fragmentation based on the fact that the RP of one guild, would contradict the RP of another guild. But if the lore stipulates that the year is actually 24 ATC, then both guilds will follow that and instead be united in their RP. Now take into account that the Darth Malgus RP community alone contains dozens of RP guilds with hundreds of individual roleplayes. Each guild and RPer tries to follow lore as closely as possible, but differences in lore interpretation will always arise. However, if there is no ambiguity to cause contention based on interpretation, all the guilds and all the RPers will be able to RP together without conflict or trouble.

 

This is also why there are rules in the RP community, that prohibit roleplayers from creating characters that are "special snowflakes" with vastly unique powers or relations to existing characters. If one player creates a character that is the grandson of Darth Vowrawn and starts to RP with that character, other RPers will have to acknowledge that fact in their RP when they don't want to because it's not done in the RP community. Those RPers will not interact with the RPer roleplaying Darth Vowrawn's grandson and thus create fragmentation. As such, the rule is that no one RPs characters with a relation to existing characters. The same goes for special powers like Essence Transfer.

 

This last paragraph tends to create a paradox for you then, doesn't it? On one hand "we're in a universe created by someone else" and on the other hand "nobody is allowed to be associated with anything from that universe". While I understand the need for something like that, I question the need to remove some ambiguity, such as the exact date. It exists to give RPers freedom to wiggle around a bit in the timeline, w/out having something game shattering happen where the entire RP community's sub world is blown apart by "The actual date is x".

[robertthebard]

You have an oddly narrow view of what RPing in swtor universe is for you level of "expertise" on the matter of RPing.

 

I quoted exactly the part of your post that was the most wrong on every level. Hard to miss mate.

You are suggesting all we ever RP is the character archs the game has given us. Not true in 90% of the time I've had an RP session withing this universe and timeline. Not true for most people who write fiction either, as I've noticed.

 

So at what point in the vanilla story was your character born, exactly? You see, for all your vast knowledge of RP, you forget one very important detail, we all start out the same way. I guess you can buypass it, not a typo, by buying tokens to pick your level...

[Ylliarus]

The other problem is: How many players are in the same time line, even in the same group? I have about 16 toons that have never, and will never touch KotFE/KoTET. Do they cease to exist now because a RP guild has done all of it? Does the RP guild cease to exist because I haven't, and we can't all be in the same instance because we're not all on the same timeline? It's left ambiguous for a reason, and this is the reason, I suspect. It's a lot easier to just let players wiggle around in the time line, than to clearly define it, and restrict who can play with whom.

 

You continue to misunderstand. You describe a different type of RP community. The RP I speak of is not tied to the class stories or RPing the classes. It's about RPing in the setting of the game, with characters who are not the Sith Inquisitor, or the Sith Warrior, or the Jedi Knight or the Smuggler. That is not the RP I speak of. The RP I speak of has nothing to do with the classes or the class stories.

 

For example, I roleplayed a Sith Lord by the name of Ryssius. In technical lore term, he was a random Sith Lord in the Sith Empire from the mass of unnamed and unspecified Sith Lords that exist in lore. He was not the Sith Inquisitor, he was not Darth Nox. He was an originally created Sith Lord that I roleplayed in RP community that creates stories, plots and arcs outside of the classes and their stories.

 

That is the type of mainstream RP I describe. You describe an entirely different type of RP that the community I speak of is not a part of. You describe the type of RPer that does RP like the Smuggler, or Trooper or Imperial Agent. That does RP within the bounds of the class stories. The RP community I speak of is completely detached from roleplaying within the bounds of the class stories, we merely RP in the setting that they create in SWTOR. So, for example, if hypothetically in future story content the Sith Empire is defeated and fragmented, we will have to RP in the lore that SWTOR's main story created on our originally created characters.

 

This last paragraph tends to create a paradox for you then, doesn't it? On one hand "we're in a universe created by someone else" and on the other hand "nobody is allowed to be associated with anything from that universe". While I understand the need for something like that, I question the need to remove some ambiguity, such as the exact date. It exists to give RPers freedom to wiggle around a bit in the timeline, w/out having something game shattering happen where the entire RP community's sub world is blown apart by "The actual date is x".

 

No, it does not create a paradox. I can't seem to make you understand the difference between the two types of roleplayers I am speaking of.

 

1. The type of RPer that RPs as the classes: yes, ambiguity in lore is desirable there.

 

2. The type of RPer that RPs as originally created characters, completely unrelated to the classes and their stories: no, ambiguity is not desirable and instead, creates problems.

 

Perhaps this thread on RP etiquette from the Darth Malgus RP community will help to clarify what I am speaking of, I encourage you to read it.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[robertthebard]

You continue to misunderstand. You describe a different type of RP community. The RP I speak of is not tied to the class stories or RPing the classes. It's about RPing in the setting of the game, with characters who are not the Sith Inquisitor, or the Sith Warrior, or the Jedi Knight or the Smuggler. That is not the RP I speak of. The RP I speak of has nothing to do with the classes or the class stories.

 

For example, I roleplayed a Sith Lord by the name of Ryssius. In technical lore term, he was a random Sith Lord in the Sith Empire from the mass of unnamed and unspecified Sith Lords that exist in lore. He was not the Sith Inquisitor, he was not Darth Nox. He was an originally created Sith Lord that I roleplayed in RP community that creates stories, plots and arcs outside of the classes and their stories.

 

That is the type of mainstream RP I describe. You describe an entirely different type of RP that the community I speak of is not a part of. You describe the type of RPer that does RP like the Smuggler, or Trooper or Imperial Agent. That does RP within the bounds of the class stories. The RP community I speak of is completely detached from roleplaying within the bounds of the class stories, we merely RP in the setting that they create in SWTOR. So, for example, if hypothetically in future story content the Sith Empire is defeated and fragmented, we will have to RP in the lore that SWTOR's main story created on our originally created characters.

 

No. The story elements all take place on the same dates. Is it irony that you're asking for date clarification, but insisting that these dates don't matter because RP? This is what I'm trying to sort out, and exactly why I posted, because this is a direct contradiction. This is what would be required to give you what you asked for in your OP:

 

1. The exact date that the character's main story quest begins on.

2. The exact date the story ends on.

3. The exact date that Ilum, Makeb et al happens.

 

If "well that's a different kind of RP", what do you need this for at all? Once a player starts one of the expansions, there are at least 5 years difference between where they are in universe, and where someone that hasn't is, also in universe. You're trying to have it both ways here, either everyone's in the same time period or they're not. That's the ambiguity I'm talking about here, because it's entirely possible to play all the way to the end of all the content we have, and still ignore any of the associated titles, such as Outlander, or Commander. Having these nailed down exactly will do more harm than good, or, is just a waste of time, if it's just going to be ignored because it's inconvenient. Which is exactly what it would be, if you're in a RP group that has players that haven't started any of the expansions, are in the middle of them, or has finished them. We know, from the story, that 5 years have elapsed, minimum, from the end of the Oricon story line and the beginning of KotFE.

 

If we're running with "more than one kind of RP", why even clearly define this, and just leave it ambiguous, so as not to invalidate player stories running within the setting?

 

Edit: Sorry, I said Oricon, but meant SoR and aftermath.

Edited May 22, 2020 by robertthebard

[Kiesu]

So at what point in the vanilla story was your character born, exactly? You see, for all your vast knowledge of RP, you forget one very important detail, we all start out the same way. I guess you can buypass it, not a typo, by buying tokens to pick your level...

Wow. Way to completely miss both points i made in one sentence. Are you wearing double eye-patches?

 

I am saying exactly that RP characters dont start the exact same way, because most rp people dont rp the character the game has given us, but rather a different person in the same universe and time who is not connected to the player vanilla characters, but the events in the universe still apply to the RP world. Because roleplaying ten outlanders in the same D&D session at the same time would make a real silly RP.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Kiesu

[Ylliarus]

No. The story elements all take place on the same dates. Is it irony that you're asking for date clarification, but insisting that these dates don't matter because RP? This is what I'm trying to sort out, and exactly why I posted, because this is a direct contradiction. This is what would be required to give you what you asked for in your OP:

 

1. The exact date that the character's main story quest begins on.

2. The exact date the story ends on.

3. The exact date that Ilum, Makeb et al happens.

 

If "well that's a different kind of RP", what do you need this for at all? Once a player starts one of the expansions, there are at least 5 years difference between where they are in universe, and where someone that hasn't is, also in universe. You're trying to have it both ways here, either everyone's in the same time period or they're not. That's the ambiguity I'm talking about here, because it's entirely possible to play all the way to the end of all the content we have, and still ignore any of the associated titles, such as Outlander, or Commander. Having these nailed down exactly will do more harm than good, or, is just a waste of time, if it's just going to be ignored because it's inconvenient. Which is exactly what it would be, if you're in a RP group that has players that haven't started any of the expansions, are in the middle of them, or has finished them. We know, from the story, that 5 years have elapsed, minimum, from the end of the Oricon story line and the beginning of KotFE.

 

If we're running with "more than one kind of RP", why even clearly define this, and just leave it ambiguous, so as not to invalidate player stories running within the setting?

 

Edit: Sorry, I said Oricon, but meant SoR and aftermath.

 

Why can't you understand that the mainstream RP community doesn't RP within the class stories, the class missions, or the expansions. We don't RP out these missions, we don't RP out these characters. We RP in the lore that this content creates, but we don't RP doing those events. The mainstream RP community I describe, roleplayers a random Lord or Darth within the Sith Empire, a random Jedi within the Order or a random citizen of the Republic.

 

We. Do. Not. RP. As. The. Classes.

 

Why does the lore matter to us? Because as I have described elaborately in previous posts, the lore dictates what is and isn't possible within our roleplay.

 

Our characters don't start at the class story start, the mainstream RP community does not RP as the class stories. Please tell me if I am writing unclearly, because I don't know how I can convey what I am saying any clearer. We create guild events, plots and story arcs ourselves outside of the class stories. We organize and write them ourselves. BUT. In order to be able to write them and play them out, we need clarity in lore. For that is what Heavy RP is about, to stick to the lore of the universe you roleplay in.

 

Take a look at this RP guild from the Darth Malgus RP community, called The Qorit Network. Its members RP as part of Sith Intelligence but they are not Sith Intelligence. They are simply a part of it, yet in order to create immersive stories, the guild needs to have clarity in lore about Sith Intelligence to creae credible stories for its members. And no, its members don't RP as Cipher 9, they RP as random members of Intelligence with no relation to Cipher 9.

 

Another example from the Darth Malgus RP community, a Sith guild called House Horuset. RPers here roleplay as Sith and Imperials part of the powerbase of a Pure Sith bloodline. They don't RP as Darth Nox or Lord Wrath, no, they RP random Sith and Sith Lords unrelated to the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor classes. The leader of the powerbase is Darth Horuset, an original character that is, in essence, a random Darth within the Sith Order. They are not played as Darth Nox or the Lord Wrath. However, in order to create credible guild arcs for their members and create immersive storylines, the lore surrounding the Sith Order and the Empire has to be clear and detailed, so as to stick closely to the lore as an RP guild.

 

Do you start to understand what I mean, with me having provided these examples? I focused on two Imperial guilds from the Darth Malgus RP server, but the same ideas apply for Republic guilds like The Lost Praxeum or The Academy of Kaleth.

 

This is what would be required to give you what you asked for in your OP:

1. The exact date that the character's main story quest begins on.

2. The exact date the story ends on.

3. The exact date that Ilum, Makeb et al happens.

 

No, you keep misunderstanding. For example, the story of my characer Lord Ryssius started in 7 BTC, during the Empire's Invasion of Serenno. That is because my character was not played as the Sith Inquisitor. They were a Sith Lord in the Empire's powerstructure. Another character's story begins in 20 BTC, or 7 ATC, or 14 BTC. That all depends on the player creating their original character. However, everyone in the mainstream RP community roleplayes in the present. And that is what the issue is, what is the present according to the latest story updates. Is it 23 ATC? Or 24 ATC? That is why roleplayers are among those who want to know what the current in-universe year is, to know what it means when we say "the present".

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[robertthebard]

Wow. Way to completely miss both points i made in one sentence. Are you wearing double eye-patches?

 

I am saying exactly that RP characters dont start the exact same way, because most rp people dont rp the character the game has given us, but rather a different person in the same universe and time who is not connected to the player vanilla characters, but the events in the universe still apply to the RP world. Because roleplaying ten outlanders in the same D&D session at the same time would make a real silly RP.

 

Thanks, I extended your bolding so you can see exactly what it is I'm trying to get to here.

 

In universe events still apply, until

 

I am saying exactly that RP characters dont start the exact same way, because most rp people dont rp the character the game has given us"

 

My logic sensors are overloading, but either we're using in universe events to where we need an exact timeline of events, or we're not, in which case we don't need an exact timeline. In one paragraph, you have jumped to both positions, and still act like I'm the one having trouble understanding what's going on.

[robertthebard]

Why can't you understand that the mainstream RP community doesn't RP within the class stories, the class missions, or the expansions. We don't RP out these missions, we don't RP out these characters. We RP in the lore that this content creates, but we don't RP doing those events. The mainstream RP community I describe, roleplayers a random Lord or Darth within the Sith Empire, a random Jedi within the Order or a random citizen of the Republic.

 

We. Do. Not. RP. As. The. Classes.

 

Why does the lore matter to us? Because as I have described elaborately in previous posts, the lore dictates what is and isn't possible within our roleplay.

 

Our characters don't start at the class story start, the mainstream RP community does not RP as the class stories. Please tell me if I am writing unclearly, because I don't know how I can convey what I am saying any clearer. We create guild events, plots and story arcs ourselves outside of the class stories. We organize and write them ourselves. BUT. In order to be able to write them and play them out, we need clarity in lore. For that is what Heavy RP is about, to stick to the lore of the universe you roleplay in.

 

Take a look at this RP guild from the Darth Malgus RP community, called The Qorit Network. Its members RP as part of Sith Intelligence but they are not Sith Intelligence. They are simply a part of it, yet in order to create immersive stories, the guild needs to have clarity in lore about Sith Intelligence to creae credible stories for its members. And no, its members don't RP as Cipher 9, they RP as random members of Intelligence with no relation to Cipher 9.

 

Another example from the Darth Malgus RP community, a Sith guild called House Horuset. RPers here roleplay as Sith and Imperials part of the powerbase of a Pure Sith bloodline. They don't RP as Darth Nox or Lord Wrath, no, they RP random Sith and Sith Lords unrelated to the Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor classes. The leader of the powerbase is Darth Horuset, an original character that is, in essence, a random Darth within the Sith Order. They are not played as Darth Nox or the Lord Wrath. However, in order to create credible guild arcs for their members and create immersive storylines, the lore surrounding the Sith Order and the Empire has to be clear and detailed, so as to stick closely to the lore as an RP guild.

 

Do you start to understand what I mean, with me having provided these examples? I focused on two Imperial guilds from the Darth Malgus RP server, but the same ideas apply for Republic guilds like The Lost Praxeum or The Academy of Kaleth.

 

 

 

No, these are not important. For example, the story of my characer Lord Ryssius started in 7 BTC, during the Empire's Invasion of Serenno. That is because my character was not played as the Sith Inquisitor. They were a Sith Lord in the Empire's powerstructure. Another character's story begins in 20 BTC, or 7 ATC, or 14 BTC. That all depends on the player creating their original character. However, everyone in the mainstream RP community roleplayes in the present. And that is what the issue is, what is the present according to the latest story updates. Is it 23 ATC? Or 24 ATC? That is why roleplayers are among those who want to know what the current in-universe year is, to know what the present is.

 

Because the lore is created by the content. Neither exists in a vacuum. If you're going to RP outside of the storylines, then you don't need a timeline for them. This is akin to wanting to know what dates the events in Baldur's Gate transpired, so I can use them for RP purposes in Dark Souls.

[Ylliarus]

Because the lore is created by the content. Neither exists in a vacuum. If you're going to RP outside of the storylines, then you don't need a timeline for them. This is akin to wanting to know what dates the events in Baldur's Gate transpired, so I can use them for RP purposes in Dark Souls.

 

We don't RP outside of the events. The events shape our RP, so we need the lore and the details of the setting to be able to RP. But we don't RP as the classes, we don't RP as Nox, Wrath or the Knight. Am I writing in Huttese? Why can't you understand what I am writing, I am writing it down as plainly and comprehensibly as I can.

 

We RP in the setting that the class stories create, but we don't RP as the classes themselves. Do you understand now?

 

Also, I seriously doubt if you have taken the time and effort to truly read what I wrote. I especially have trouble believing that you went to the links I provided to help you understand the difference I am speaking of.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[robertthebard]

We don't RP outside of the events. The events shape our RP, so we need the lore and the details of the setting to be able to RP. But we don't RP as the classes, we don't RP as Nox, Wrath or the Knight. Am I writing in Huttese? Why can't you understand what I am writing, I am writing it down as plainly and comprehensibly as I can.

 

We RP in the setting that the class stories create, but we don't RP as the classes themselves. Do you understand now?

 

Also, I seriously doubt if you have taken the time and effort to truly read what I wrote. I especially have trouble believing that you went to the links I provided to help you understand the difference I am speaking of.

 

I'm not having any issues understanding not being x. I'm looking at it as "I'm JoeAverage, Jedi Knight", and what the exact date is doesn't matter, because nothing in my life is tied to knowing when Darth Nox is captured by Zakuul. But what happens if it's really the Smuggler? Trooper?

 

When I RP outside of the story arc, I don't need the details of the story arc to do so. I ran a RP group through a NWN module a friend made, and didn't use any of the lore associated with it, other than what came directly from the D&D lore associated with the setting. None of the dates mattered, nothing in the associated stories told in the module mattered, because we were running my own little campaign inside of an existing campaign. You have the tools to do that now with approximate dates. Pick one and run with it, you'll be better off, because no matter what the devs decide to do, you're insulated by virtue of creating your own.

[Kiesu]

My logic sensors are overloading, but either we're using in universe events to where we need an exact timeline of events, or we're not, in which case we don't need an exact timeline. In one paragraph, you have jumped to both positions, and still act like I'm the one having trouble understanding what's going on.

Yes I can see this is very hard for you. Let me try to put it as simply as I can for you. I will use small words.

 

In short:

Your statement: "All characters start the same". Reply: "No, we're not playing the 8 class characters."

Your statement: "Need exact timeline for universe events if using them". Reply: "Yes."

Your statement: "Don't need exact time if we're not using universe events". Reply: "Correct."

 

Are we on the same page yet?

[Ylliarus]

I'm not having any issues understanding not being x. I'm looking at it as "I'm JoeAverage, Jedi Knight", and what the exact date is doesn't matter, because nothing in my life is tied to knowing when Darth Nox is captured by Zakuul. But what happens if it's really the Smuggler? Trooper?

 

When I RP outside of the story arc, I don't need the details of the story arc to do so. I ran a RP group through a NWN module a friend made, and didn't use any of the lore associated with it, other than what came directly from the D&D lore associated with the setting. None of the dates mattered, nothing in the associated stories told in the module mattered, because we were running my own little campaign inside of an existing campaign. You have the tools to do that now with approximate dates. Pick one and run with it, you'll be better off, because no matter what the devs decide to do, you're insulated by virtue of creating your own.

 

I have really tried to make you understand why knowing for example the date is important, yet you continue to refuse to move beyond the understanding of RPing as the classes. I have explained, patiently and elaborately, how the mainstream RP community does not RP as the classes, but that the setting the story in those classes and later expansions creates the rules we RP in. I have given you examples, I have given you links to study further, I have been as detailed as I can. However, there seems to be a fundamental lack of understanding between my meaning and your interpretation of my meaning. I cannot be faulted for having been to brief or unclear, as I have written multiple paragraphs trying to explain it to you.

 

As such, I will sadly have to ask that - if you cannot understand the difference I have been trying to explain nor why clarity in lore is of importance to the mainstream RP community - you don't oppose this. The establishment of an official date will not affect you in any significant way, but it would mean the world to the mainstream RP community. As such, if you can't understand or don't want to understand, then perphaps this thread is not for you. I am not saying that I am shooing you away, but I simply don't know what to do to help you understand. I have done my best, really, I did. Yet either you choose to not understand or you have never encountered the mainstream RP community.

Edited May 22, 2020 by Ylliarus

[robertthebard]

Yes I can see this is very hard for you. Let me try to put it as simply as I can for you. I will use small words.

 

In short:

Your statement: "All characters start the same". Reply: "No, we're not playing the 8 class characters."

Your statement: "Need exact timeline for universe events if using them". Reply: "Yes."

Your statement: "Don't need exact time if we're not using universe events". Reply: "Correct."

 

Are we on the same page yet?

 

Yep, so we don't need an exact timeline for the setting, because we're RPing outside of the actual setting. We can pick something reasonably close, and go from there, problem solved. See how easy that was?