Get. Rid. Of. Mandatory. Group. Quests.

[DarkGruffalo]

I notice that nobody is contesting my assertion that *none* of this stuff is mandatory.

 

Because you are right, and we'd be fools to argue it

[ObsidianBones]

I notice that nobody is contesting my assertion that *none* of this stuff is mandatory.

This was my first thought when I read the OP. All the stuff they're talking about is for reputation, gear, or something else they're looking for. Again, not mandatory.

 

P.S. Impressive that you can multi-box like you do. I'm certainly not ambidextrous enough to do that.

[Sarova]

The heroics on dantooine can be solo'd, i've not done it personally, but it can be done.

I could solo them on my lightning inq prior to 6.0 but not now. That said getting a group together for the dantooine heroics generally takes me 6-10 seconds and I always pay the 15 mill (to avoid the mob shenanigans) so get tonnes of group love. OP just spam LFM instead of LFG and people will join - generally people don't like to make groups so are pleased when someone else does. I'm a group-o-phobe but out of need have started raid groups for the Ossus boss(es) in the past. Ossus (for Kil'cik & R8-x8) is currently the only group that's harder to get, however that can still be done if someone is willing to ask on the fleet. And world bosses can be fun especially with a group of clueless randos (like myself) It's best not to take groups seriously. Leave that for ranked teams and ops guilds (shudder).

[DarkGruffalo]

I could solo them on my lightning inq prior to 6.0 but not now. That said getting a group together for the dantooine heroics generally takes me 6-10 seconds and I always pay the 15 mill (to avoid the mob shenanigans) so get tonnes of group love. OP just spam LFM instead of LFG and people will join - generally people don't like to make groups so are pleased when someone else does. I'm a group-o-phobe but out of need have started raid groups for the Ossus boss(es) in the past. Ossus (for Kil'cik & R8-x8) is currently the only group that's harder to get, however that can still be done if someone is willing to ask on the fleet. And world bosses can be fun especially with a group of clueless randos (like myself) It's best not to take groups seriously. Leave that for ranked teams and ops guilds (shudder).

 

The ossus wb's are hard to get because people don't need the drops anymore, if they were to add something new, like a higher percentage chance of the deco's, or maybe even a certainty of it dropping, and or a decent box drop, more people might do it. A 1 in 24 chance of getting the deco , is better than a % it might drop, and then when it does, it's a 1 in 24 chance

[RowanThursday]

I tend to believe that certain things should always be soloable. Not necessarily things that the game has done in the past. However- by way of example, I think that Shadow of Revan got right what Oricon got horribly wrong- the endgame of the 'main story' of an expansion should not be put behind a 'group wall'. Similarly, whilst the Shadow of Revan flashpoints, and the earlier Black Talon/Esseles ones, have a solo 'story' mode, the Taral V/Maelstrom/Foundry arc doesn't as far as I'm aware, and given its significant story connotations, it probably would benefit from one.

 

"But MMO!"

 

Yes but, you want people to group because they want to. A player who is grouping purely because they have to in order to experience the story- i.e. hasn't done it before, is a player who will probably respond to being rudely told "Spacebar, spacebar, omg spacebar" by either angrily quitting the group, getting into an out and out verbal war of words with the ADD spacebarista in group chat, or, in the best case scenario, simply ignoring the spacebarista and proceeding, albeit with a bad taste in the mouth.

 

Now, to this, the more reasonable spacebarista will be thinking "Yes, but, they should have said "I've never done this before; I want to do the story without skipping/spacebarring" before they started, because I think the default is to spacebar.

Fine- but, the specific player we're discussing as an example here is one who is not accustomed to grouping- they've only grouped rather than been a solo player because there is content that they want to experience, and they're not familiar with the conventions.

I'm perfectly familiar with the conventions of PUG group content; I just don't like them, so I avoid it most of the time, but not everyone is familiar- and it's in the best interests of the survival of the game as an MMO if the casual player and general soloist who is motivated to try group content has a positive experience of it.

 

So, I think there should be a solo path through the entire storyline, in which nothing significant to the main story is cut- but, it made clear that greater rewards etc are available from grouping up; heroics, operations, non-story-critical flashpoints, and harder-mode flashpoints and so on.

 

"It's an MMO; you should group" is not an unreasonable sentiment; but the means of encouraging it should always be the carrot; never the stick.

 

No argument here as to whether or not the quests specifically being considered actually are mandatory or not; they don't really sound it.

[MagicTerror]

The ossus wb's are hard to get because people don't need the drops anymore, if they were to add something new, like a higher percentage chance of the deco's, or maybe even a certainty of it dropping, and or a decent box drop, more people might do it. A 1 in 24 chance of getting the deco , is better than a % it might drop, and then when it does, it's a 1 in 24 chance

 

World Bosses in general were the most egregious example of "build them and leave them" group content that TOR ever did. They're great for their time but one expansion or planet addition later they're entirely irrelevant because there's no real reason to keep doing them even if it's just for the achievement or Qyzen Alliance Alert. The Balmorra world boss had half a dozen people ridiculing a poor soul just yesterday for trying to form to kill it because one heroic is simpler and more rewarding than a world boss kill. Ossus sounds like it already got put into irrelevance; that one at the very least needs a rare deco with a more generous drop rate. And to be honest all the world bosses need some reward like that. I get that SD-0 is a noob planet World Boss, but it should have more work put in to make it relevant besides scaling players down-level and giving them the same old lvl 10 earpieces, the fact that I haven't done it in so long that I'm not even sure if those still drop is just another example of how ignored that content is.

[DarkGruffalo]

World Bosses in general were the most egregious example of "build them and leave them" group content that TOR ever did. They're great for their time but one expansion or planet addition later they're entirely irrelevant because there's no real reason to keep doing them even if it's just for the achievement or Qyzen Alliance Alert. The Balmorra world boss had half a dozen people ridiculing a poor soul just yesterday for trying to form to kill it because one heroic is simpler and more rewarding than a world boss kill. Ossus sounds like it already got put into irrelevance; that one at the very least needs a rare deco with a more generous drop rate. And to be honest all the world bosses need some reward like that. I get that SD-0 is a noob planet World Boss, but it should have more work put in to make it relevant besides scaling players down-level and giving them the same old lvl 10 earpieces, the fact that I haven't done it in so long that I'm not even sure if those still drop is just another example of how ignored that content is.

 

I think they are trying to make them relevant again, it seems the DK WB is on CQ this week, so could be they are going to rotate more in, especially for the lower levels. We get a bit sick of the usual Tat/nar & belsavis, it's nice to have some change. Also DT is on it this week too

Edited May 12, 2020 by DarkGruffalo

[turbomagnus]

I tend to believe that certain things should always be soloable. Not necessarily things that the game has done in the past. However- by way of example, I think that Shadow of Revan got right what Oricon got horribly wrong- the endgame of the 'main story' of an expansion should not be put behind a 'group wall'. Similarly, whilst the Shadow of Revan flashpoints, and the earlier Black Talon/Esseles ones, have a solo 'story' mode, the Taral V/Maelstrom/Foundry arc doesn't as far as I'm aware, and given its significant story connotations, it probably would benefit from one.

 

The 'Revan Returns' FPs do have a solo story arc to them, wrapper missions picked up at the Spaceports on ImpTaris and PubBalmorra that guide you back to the fleet and through both Taral V/Boarding Party and Maelstrom Prison/The Foundry flashpoints while providing additional scenes and backstory. (Including the final fate of The Exile from KOTOR2)

[LiquidElectron]

I notice that nobody is contesting my assertion that *none* of this stuff is mandatory.

 

Because 99% of us know that you're right. It's amazing, the amount of solo things I can do in the game and still get to the 'end' without any help.

[turbomagnus]

Because 99% of us know that you're right. It's amazing, the amount of solo things I can do in the game and still get to the 'end' without any help.

 

Which, ironically enough, makes those few things that are otherwise that much more frustrating; especially those (Shroud Revealed, Iokath, Oricon, etc.) that are 99 per cent solo-able and then that last one per cent requires grouping...

[Dunderheid]

The 'Revan Returns' FPs do have a solo story arc to them, wrapper missions picked up at the Spaceports on ImpTaris and PubBalmorra that guide you back to the fleet and through both Taral V/Boarding Party and Maelstrom Prison/The Foundry flashpoints while providing additional scenes and backstory. (Including the final fate of The Exile from KOTOR2)

 

They do indeed, and one of them is so broken that everything can be one-shotted right up to the final boss, who used to be a right pain, and now he takes two shots to get rid of. That's why I don't bother with them on pub characters now:(

[denavin]

No mandatory group quest... in an MMO...

 

Try to complete the event on Dantooine... You Can't unless you do two 4 man heroic groups... Which are almost impossible to form.

 

That is what is called Mandatory....

Oh and before you climb up on your elite pedestal... Not everybody can do them solo or 2 man them (which would still be a Group).

[Phazonfreak]

Try to complete the event on Dantooine... You Can't unless you do two 4 man heroic groups... Which are almost impossible to form.

 

That is what is called Mandatory....

Oh and before you climb up on your elite pedestal... Not everybody can do them solo or 2 man them (which would still be a Group).

 

You cannot "complete" the event. Like all conquest events it's an infinite loop. Again, what you are describing is not mandatory but encouragement. Yes, you will earn much more Surveyor's Notes by doing the heroics themselves and finishing the weekly, but you can still earn them on a slower scale by only doing single player objectives. That is the entire point behind the daily Patrol quests from the mission board, so that players like you who seem to hate everything that requires grouping can still do the event at their own pace. As a single player you can rank up your reputation and buy all the rewards from the vendors and are not locked out of any of it even if you never did any of the heroics once and never finished the weekly at all. Which makes your claim of being mandatory disappear in a puff of smoke.

 

I also really don't get your claim that it is impossible to form a 4-man group for the heroics. It's probably the easiest and fastest out of all the event heroics. You just have to log into your character on Dantooine and you see groups forming in general chat all the time.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[DarkGruffalo]

Basically lfm implies that you're willing to lead. Maybe that's a false assumption on my part, but that's how i feel.

 

no, you'd be quite right for a lot of people. I used to use LFG, and get no one, but since I started using LFM, i get groups a lot quicker. I think a lot of people don't start groups, because if it goes sour, the person starting usually gets the flak.

But in most situations, it rarely does, excetp going in to harder context, ie ops, etc.

[DarkGruffalo]

Try to complete the event on Dantooine... You Can't unless you do two 4 man heroic groups... Which are almost impossible to form.

 

That is what is called Mandatory....

Oh and before you climb up on your elite pedestal... Not everybody can do them solo or 2 man them (which would still be a Group).

 

I'm sorry, but the h4 on dantooine is one of the easiest groups to form, just use LFM, and you'll have a group in a min or two. If you aren't getting a group, it's something you are doing. ie, using LFG. or too many people on ignore, etc

 

Yes, they are soloable, but not everyone can do it, I haven't, the best I've done before was 2 man, 2 companion job, and to be honest, it was probaly becuase the other person was really good.

[JediQuaker]

Try to complete the event on Dantooine... You Can't unless you do two 4 man heroic groups... Which are almost impossible to form.

 

That is what is called Mandatory....

Oh and before you climb up on your elite pedestal... Not everybody can do them solo or 2 man them (which would still be a Group).

Whenever I've done the Pirate event, it usually takes just a couple of minutes to get a group together for the Heroics. You must have really bad luck. The worst I've done is to actually complete 2 or 3 of the dailies while waiting for someone to start a group. (I'm one of those people who likes to join rather than start.)

 

As far as being 'mandatory' is concerned, yes, it is 'mandatory' to do the heroics to complete the Pirate Incursion. I think if you did a poll of the people playing SWTOR or any other MMO, you'd find that most of them are willing to do at least some group content. That idea is intrinsic to the very nature of an MMO.

 

I mean, really, why are people playing an MMO, who just want to only play solo, or only PvP, or just play Pazaak? Sure, it can be done, and it's your choice, but it seems silly to complain when the game encourages you to actually play an MMO. 😂

Edited May 13, 2020 by JediQuaker

[RowanThursday]

 

I mean, really, why are people playing an MMO, who just want to only play solo, or only PvP, or just play Pazaak? Sure, it can be done, and it's your choice, but it seems silly to complain when the game encourages you to actually play an MMO. 😂

 

I recall reading that quite a lot of people actually choose to play SWTOR because it's "KOTOR III", and having to pay for online servers and put up with occasionally seeing other players of the game wandering about in the background is just an unfortunate side effect.

 

I wouldn't quite go that far, not all the time, but I've certainly no sympathy either for those individuals in the "hardcore MMO player" camp who appear to resent the first group for not being "useful" to them. Both sets of players are equally "valid", neither need coercing to play the other person's way.

[EllieAnne]

This issue dates back to the mandatory level sync. Whether the intention or a side effect, BW forced people to group together. It has been an abject failure to that end from both sides. Having to group up for Heroics? Nah. Since they change the mechanics I can take a suitably OP toon and my level 50 companion and solo the Heroics - even the Heroic 4s. On the other side, try to find a group for Nightmare Pilgrim. Go on. If I didn't have level sync weighing me down I could complete the mission myself or with a partner. But no so I will not be able to get my Aratech Coral

Even more specific to the OP, the luster has faded from the Ossus farming so good luck building up your reputation there since both of the missions to do the weekly require grouping that is never done.

 

Of course if the only grouping you want to do is EV farming then that's easy to find.

[Phazonfreak]

Why do you guys keep perpetuating the myth that doing the heroics for the events is mandatory? Why? Do you all have a different definition of the word mandatory? This is driving me crazy.

 

'Mandatory' would mean you are forced to do them in order to get access to reputation ranks or rewards that you would not have access to otherwise and you could not reach by just doing the solo content. This is not the case! You can even get the "The Golden Dream" achievement and item just by paying the ransom for the Heroic yourself without any group at all.

 

Please, for the love of reason, say you are heavily encouraged to do so, or even say that you are unhappy that Solo players earn reputation and event currencies at a much slower pace, but stop saying it is mandatory when it clearly is not and the game is bending over backwards to cater to the Solo crowd compared to pretty much any other MMORPG on the market.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[EllieAnne]

Why do you guys keep perpetuating the myth that doing the heroics for the events is mandatory? Why? Do you all have a different definition of the word mandatory? This is driving me crazy.

 

That still doesn't address the two examples I gave. The quest for the Aratech Coral and the Weekly to build reputation on Ossus. Please explain how to solo those.

[Phazonfreak]

That still doesn't address the two examples I gave. The quest for the Aratech Coral and the Weekly to build reputation on Ossus. Please explain how to solo those.

 

You can build your reputation on Ossus without doing any heroics simply by doing the solo quests. Yes, you cannot finish two of the weeklies and you will build your reputation slower, but as I keep saying again and again that is not what the word mandatory means, because you are not locked out of earning reputation and claiming the rewards doing the solo content. Your described issues have far more to do with game content that shifts in attractiveness when new content is released, as we can clearly see with the release of Onslaught and how "uninteresting" Ossus has become.

 

BTW, I have reached max reputation rank on Ossus without ever doing a heroic with another player.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Phazonfreak

[SteveTheCynic]

P.S. Impressive that you can multi-box like you do. I'm certainly not ambidextrous enough to do that.

It's mostly the 75 who fights and the lowbie who /follows (although sometimes I'll launch the lowbie's companion into boss fights). I certainly don't fight simultaneously with both characters, and it's only Black Talon/Esseles anyway.

[Damask_Rose]

Why do you guys keep perpetuating the myth that doing the heroics for the events is mandatory? Why? Do you all have a different definition of the word mandatory? This is driving me crazy.

 

'Mandatory' would mean you are forced to do them in order to get access to reputation ranks or rewards that you would not have access to otherwise and you could not reach by just doing the solo content. This is not the case! You can even get the "The Golden Dream" achievement and item just by paying the ransom for the Heroic yourself without any group at all.

 

Please, for the love of reason, say you are heavily encouraged to do so, or even say that you are unhappy that Solo players earn reputation and event currencies at a much slower pace, but stop saying it is mandatory when it clearly is not and the game is bending over backwards to cater to the Solo crowd compared to pretty much any other MMORPG on the market.

 

FYI there is no solo way to get Gree currency beyond a one time quest to visit planets for the pet. Luckily the heroic can be soloed, but the heroic is much harder to solo than the older planetary heroics.

[juliushorst]

There are only two examples that could use some tweaking:

1. Oricon - There should be a way to conclude the questline solo, just to see cutscenes. Doesn't (and probably shouldn't) be a 'solo operation' but throwing you into a room with easy Brontes (if implementing mechanics is hard - simply nuking her works), showing cutscene between DF and DP, throwing you into a room with Council and showing the final cutscene should be an option. The rest of Dread Masters story operations are not required as Marr sums it all up at the beginning of Oricon.

2. Dreadseed and Shroud questlines. Yes, Dreadseed is soloable but requires some skill and patience in that barrel boss fight. Tune it down so anybody can finish it. For Shroud clicking all panels should be enough, no 'click all panels at the same time'. Or just remove panels like in Aurora Cannon and let us fight the boss, car jumping sequence is enough of a buildup to this.

 

Remaining flashpoints could use story mode but they are stand-alone stories without any solo questline leading to them so I think it would be a waste of resources.

Other than that - no quest are actually 'mandatory group content'.

[kirorx]

Definitely should be a solo version of operations so you can complete the story, the Oricon ones for sure. Even if its something different from the operation and its a fight like Revan was

 

There are only two examples that could use some tweaking:

1. Oricon - There should be a way to conclude the questline solo, just to see cutscenes. Doesn't (and probably shouldn't) be a 'solo operation' but throwing you into a room with easy Brontes (if implementing mechanics is hard - simply nuking her works), showing cutscene between DF and DP, throwing you into a room with Council and showing the final cutscene should be an option. The rest of Dread Masters story operations are not required as Marr sums it all up at the beginning of Oricon.

2. Dreadseed and Shroud questlines. Yes, Dreadseed is soloable but requires some skill and patience in that barrel boss fight. Tune it down so anybody can finish it. For Shroud clicking all panels should be enough, no 'click all panels at the same time'. Or just remove panels like in Aurora Cannon and let us fight the boss, car jumping sequence is enough of a buildup to this.

 

Remaining flashpoints could use story mode but they are stand-alone stories without any solo questline leading to them so I think it would be a waste of resources.

Other than that - no quest are actually 'mandatory group content'.

Edited May 14, 2020 by kirorx