EmperorRus Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 Applies Empowered Restoration t it's target. restoring 2886 health over 12 seconds. Surrounding a target with Force Armor immediatly heals if for 3854-4805 health. 2886 health over freaking 12 seconds??? 3-4k heal every 15 seconds or so? How is Empowered Restorer supposed to be viable in PvP/Ops!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ergecrs Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2886 health over freaking 12 seconds??? 3-4k heal every 15 seconds or so? How is Empowered Restorer supposed to be viable in PvP/Ops!? Easy, get it. Equip it. Then log onto a Mando healer and play that toon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediQuaker Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 2886 health over freaking 12 seconds??? 3-4k heal every 15 seconds or so? How is Empowered Restorer supposed to be viable in PvP/Ops!? Maybe it's not intended for OPs or PvP. (I don't know, and I don't care. 🙂 ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulus_Claudius Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 It beats the nerfed Revitalized Mystic by a long shot. At least it's consistent healing rather than a RNG chance at healing. That said, I did hope for a tactical or set that would buff the shield in the other direction, which I find disappointing. Rather than healing yet more, something to remove the 10 stack heal and apply it as added shielding instead would have been welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElZaguero Posted April 22, 2020 Share Posted April 22, 2020 It beats the nerfed Revitalized Mystic by a long shot. At least it's consistent healing rather than a RNG chance at healing. That said, I did hope for a tactical or set that would buff the shield in the other direction, which I find disappointing. Rather than healing yet more, something to remove the 10 stack heal and apply it as added shielding instead would have been welcome. Someone in a position of power at BW obviously has a serious hate on for healer Sorc/Sage; we get worked over with the splintery nerf-bat every other patch. We were already the weakest of the healer classes, but no, no, they had to go and nerf us some more. But the thing is, complaining about it will have exactly the same effect as not complaining about it - absolutely none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryban Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 It wasn't utter trash before?...lol Was it really viable to begin with? Sage/Sorc were lowest rated healers already. The trade offs I see and feel in play are minimal, if not a very slight improvement... How often do you really use benevolence/dark heal, with a vin/am stack... How often do you bubble someone(s)... a 10% critical chance increase and 20% increase IF you have a vindicate/amesty stack on a 10-12k base heal that you might use once ever 15-20 secs...... vs a guaranteed heal on an ability that you use more than the other, and you gain an extra healing ability... Idk, the guaranteed and extra ability over RNG on one less frequently used seems like at worst a lateral move, if not a slight improvement. Yeah, the numbers don't seem that eye popping...but it's not utter trash now compared to what it was already... Give it some time, the numbers will tell the story. But right now, looks like a lateral to slight improvement vs complete dog crap. Revitalized Mystic Again, the numbers will tell the story. The loss of the 1.5sec reduction isn't that big of a deal since you're probably hitting a click to recover some force anyway. The recovery of force when using an actual healing ability is an improvement, imo. The 6set bonus simply moved the force recovery to the 4 set piece and put a number on it instead of saying "some force". It also changes the wording to be more specific on the extra tick to Rejuv/Resurg. As previously stated, these changes are lateral at worst and maybe a slight improvement...we'll see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahwassa Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 Revitalized Mystic The recovery of force when using an actual healing ability is an improvement, imo. It´s not an improvement, it´s a nerf. It was 10 force before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryban Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 I’ll take your word on the 10v5 returned. And I did misread the 4 set, it’s still refresh, not use the ability. I read as use returns 5 force. In my error, I saw the use of the ability to return force as the improvement. But the ability works the same (minus 5) as it did with the 6 set. 5 less force returned, I haven’t felt/noticed it to be an issue while healing so not much of a nerf. Maybe a bigger deal in NiM stuff but I ain’t there, yet...lol I do prefer the empowered restorer set over revitalized mystic now. But need more time to see if the bubble heal works better for me than the extra half tick. Force management hasn’t been an issue so I’m not missing the loss of 5 on recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahwassa Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 The bubble set is way better than Rev Mystic. Run it with Roaming Mend +1 and you´ll be fine. For content where you would be dpsing anyway, use Endless Offensive + Storm Succor. The burst is great but you have to watch where the enemy and your target stand. But for tank and melee healing it´s the best there is. And if you have the 264 accuracy from the stim you´ll barely miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulus_Claudius Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) The loss of the 1.5sec reduction isn't that big of a deal since you're probably hitting a click to recover some force anyway. This is the hardest nerf Sorc healers have received in the 6.x patch cycle. Innervate is your single-target healing. Everything else is icing. The cooldown synergized perfectly with Resurgence, and now without it you have a "dead" GCD in between where you have to do something else that doesn't cost the Resurgence buff, because you want to keep it on CD yet you really don't want to waste it on anything other than Innervate or Roaming Mend. If you only used it for force regen before and didn't realize how insanely powerful that 25% crit on your biggest 2-GCD heal was to your overall healing, I guess you saw it as a force regen talent, but that wasn't the whole point of it. Now we have the same 6-piece bonus as before, just spread over two boni. That set is dead. Empowered Restorer and shielding more often is the most effective way to get around the problem the longer CD on Innervate has presented to us, as shields don't steal the buff away from Innervate. Edited April 23, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikePrice Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 I would love to hear the rationale for this complete redesign. It's overpowered? Okay, tone it down. Why re-design it completely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) I like the changes to the sorc healing class generally speaking so far. At first, it felt clunky and I was putting out bad numbers. I read through all my descriptions, seen the changes made by the 6.1 patch, and I then altered my rotations accordingly once I understood the mechanics of the abilities. It's more complex, but I find it refreshing. I am getting used to the changes, and seeing I don't even have a gear set yet, I look forward to seeing how well I do when i get one, because so far I am happy with the sorc healer's performance I do fine. I was working for the Empowered gear set, and will continue to work for that because I like Endless barrier tactical above the others. I find the All for One and One for All tacticals underwhelming and boring. I find more options with the Endless Barrier tactical and utilities. Maybe I was just bored of the healing on sorcs, I been doing it since launch! These changes did nothing to hurt my performance, in fact I think once I get fully geared they will benefit me more than anything. ***I want to add, I feel like they made the rotation more versatile now. Before, it was so mind numbingly simple. Now, you have some variations in when to cast what, I like how they did that. Resurgence sets you up, and then depending on the situation you have before you, you can use the resurgence buff for an ability that would be better served at that time. If i noticed a down tick in my performance I'd be angry about the overall changes but I have put up better numbers since this patch and my gears have not changed. Edited April 23, 2020 by Lhancelot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahwassa Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 I would love to hear the rationale for this complete redesign. It's overpowered? Okay, tone it down. Why re-design it completely? They redesigned it because no one was using it. Also I suspect that since everyone was using Rev Mystic they nerfed it so that we have to farm 2 different sets. But Endless Offensive + Storm Succor is really fun so idc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryban Posted April 23, 2020 Share Posted April 23, 2020 (edited) By dead cool down, do you mean you can no longer mindlessly spam resur/innervate/icing/icing repeat? If that's what you were doing, then yeah, I'd be upset with the "nerf" too. Lhancelot, I'm right there with you. I don't see these changes as bad or a nerf bc they don't really change the way I've been playing. The only thing it did was make one set more appealing to me than the other. They redesigned it because no one was using it. Also I suspect that since everyone was using Rev Mystic they nerfed it so that we have to farm 2 different sets. Agree. But the "nerf" stopped the "spam." Why did they do that to Sage/Sorc before merc...who knows... When mercs get nerfed, they'll be on here complaining...lol Edited April 23, 2020 by Tryban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulus_Claudius Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) By dead cool down, do you mean you can no longer mindlessly spam resur/innervate/icing/icing repeat? If that's what you were doing, then yeah, I'd be upset with the "nerf" too. Using Innervate was and still is the single most powerful use for Resurgence next to Roaming Mend. That won't change. It's a straight nerf to single-target healing, will not make Resurgence more interesting to use with anything other than Roaming Mend or Innervate, and just adds yet another cooldown of "icing," to use your word. That added "icing" will end up being a shield more often than not with Empowered Restorer because that doesn't use up the Resurgence buff, but what it doesn't do is make the rotation more "complex" or less "spammy." The old priorities remain the new priorities, just a bit more spaced out. In terms of HPS the Sorc is still in a better spot than before the patch just because the numbers got buffed across the board, but significantly worse than it would be with the lowered cooldown. The rotation feels a lot worse and less intuitive. I'll get used to it by learning to prioritize spells during the dead GCD that don't waste Resurgence before Innervate is up, but it's not going to encourage me to waste the buff on anything else. Admittedly I find that disappointing, but if they're going to make Innervate less frequent I actually hoped for a logical reason to use Resurgence on different spells based on the situation, and that's just not the case. Edited April 24, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryban Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 lol, Icing was your word, not mine. You keep making presumptions that aren’t there. Removing/having that 1.5 reduction changed nothing in terms of innervate importance relative to resurgence nor have I suggested otherwise. This change only means you have to “delay” 1 gcd instead of looping back 1 gcd earlier than we had to before RM existed. If you looped back to take advantage of that reduced cooldown, it caused other issues later, possibly reducing your overall effective healing. I tried to make use/exploit the shorter cooldown but it was ineffective over a long fight. So, I went back to what worked before there was a shorter cooldown. The result, I healed better overall. The 1.5 reduction was useless to me so I don’t miss it at all. As a result, I see no change or loss/nerf to RM. The only change is that ER is now more appealing bc of its changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulus_Claudius Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) lol, Icing was your word, not mine. By dead cool down, do you mean you can no longer mindlessly spam resur/innervate/icing/icing repeat? Please, quote me using it before that post of yours where you insulted all Sorcs who've played optimally since 3.0. This change only means you have to “delay” 1 gcd instead of looping back 1 gcd earlier than we had to before RM existed. If you looped back to take advantage of that reduced cooldown, it caused other issues later, possibly reducing your overall effective healing. I tried to make use/exploit the shorter cooldown but it was ineffective over a long fight. So, I went back to what worked before there was a shorter cooldown. The result, I healed better overall. The 1.5 reduction was useless to me so I don’t miss it at all. As a result, I see no change or loss/nerf to RM. The only change is that ER is now more appealing bc of its changes. We essentially agree on the new delay, although "before RM" we also had the reduced cooldown. It's been the Sorc heal set bonus since 3.0, wasn't part of RM initially on the 6.0 PTS, then got added prior to release after Sorcs gave feedback reminding them how vital it was. Keeping Innervate on cooldown was always the strongest rotation for pure single-target healing regardless of how quickly you could use the stacks it built. By "dead GCD" I'm not referring to just another filler GCD, it's the added GCD between Resurgence and Innervate where you can't use anything that procs Resurgence under threat of possibly having to delay Innervate, not to mention the effectively higher cooldown on Resurgence, as it's inextricably tied to Innvervate for optimal effectiveness. That limits your choices massively for far more GCDs over a long fight compared to 3.0-6.1. Edited April 24, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryban Posted April 24, 2020 Share Posted April 24, 2020 (edited) Please, quote me using it before that post of yours where you insulted all Sorcs who've played optimally since 3.0.. Everything else is icing. You were saying?...lol If you took the mindlessly looping spam comment as an insult, that's your issue bc I heal using sage/sorc. Not as long as you have, but long enough to know mindlessly looping resurg/innerv/icing/icing will cause problems if you don't do something else besides using resurg/innver based on resurg CD. Which is why I'm confused about the nerf complaint, because I don't understand how multiple uses of that cycle when resurg comes of CD is/was viable over any extended duration. Because, if you did that, you'd have to stop at some point to use non healing abilities to bubble/recover force, etc. which means you are no longer healing over several GCDs and effectively netting any gains from using resurg/innerv on resurg CD to take advantage of the set bonus. As I've said previously, numbers will tell the story. I don't play by numbers but more along the lines of feel and overall end result, everyone still upright... And to accomplish that, you have to heal, heal, heal and not miss too many GCDs without healing. And this is why I'm liking the ER set now, even if RM kept the 1.5 reduced cooldown. That's a whole lot of GCDs where I'm now healing where I wasn't before... For me, there is no "new" cooldown between resurg/innerv bc there has always been another ability I've used BEFORE returning to use resurg/innerv, which coincided with timing innerv cooldown and not just looping back to pop resurg on CD. May not have been "optimal" bc I've never had a set bonus on a healer until now, but I've managed to keep team members alive so far...lol When I did get the RM set bonus, I tried using resurg on CD as much as possible bc innerv was right there with it... That caused me issues that I couldn't resolve without taking 2 or more consecutive GCDs to use non healing abilities. So, I went back to what worked for me before and therefore, do not miss the 1.5 reduction, at all... My only issue about the changes is now having to build the ER set and the related cost. I have most of the set pieces, but RM set has all the preferred mods, so a few million credits to yank those and move them or RNG new ones...lol But, that comes with the territory in this game so nothing to really get bent about... Otherwise, we could all complain every time a new set comes out. And let's be real, it's been 6 months so you had to know major changes were inbound. Hey, at least it wasn't a new tier of gear to farm for...lol Now if we want to complain about the tacticals changes, I could probably get on board that train...lol But even then, change is a part of the game. Adapt and move on, or whine about it as if it's going to matter...lol Edited April 25, 2020 by Tryban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aulus_Claudius Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 (edited) snip Okay... you win on the icing thing. Was dead tired when I posted that and it's not a word I've ever used in that context before, so I thought "what a weird word he's using to describe filler GCDs." Oops. Oh well. Re: mindless spam, if you didn't mean it insultingly I'm glad to hear it. If anything it was overly hyperbolic, actual mindless spam being the exact same key repeated brainlessly ad infinitum (ex: Infiltration Sin AoE). It's usually a term used degradingly on more toxic forums than this one. Reddit rule #1: if it could be an insult, it probably is. Not to get off-topic though, Innervate is by far the strongest single-target heal Sorcs have and traditionally one of only two worth using with Resurgence. That hasn't changed in raw mathermatical terms, but the new rotation forces a heightened delay to make it always possible. As you correctly state, Resurgence CD is shorter than even the old Innervate CD, but delaying Resurgence by 1 or having one GCD in between for a shield was never a huge issue. Now we have to either delay by 2 every time or play an odd sort of "dance" between the two where Resurgence can be kept on cooldown and you have to choose between using the buff sub-optimally and potentially leaving Innervate unbuffed/delayed, or having more "dead" GCDs where you have Resurgence up but don't want to waste it on anything. To me, those GCDs are the least fun and least engaging portion of the rotation because your choices are hugely limited, and we just got a lot more of them. At least shielding is more interesting now and doesn't consume the buff, but for pure single-target burst I find it a big problem. I definitely agree with you re: re-gearing, though. It's ludicrous that they force a complete gear reset for just players of one class. Talk about discriminatory treatment of just 1/8 of their playerbase. The tacticals are at least more interesting than the old ones, not that that's really a good bar to set. I just find it amusing that they nerfed Roaming Mend by 20% and now make us equip a tactical if we want it to heal as much as it used to. Edited April 25, 2020 by Aulus_Claudius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryban Posted April 25, 2020 Share Posted April 25, 2020 I’m not opposed to mindless spam...lol I’m not an intellectual play style elitist or purist by any means. If something is simpler, more effective, I’ll use it. If I’m ever toxic, it’s purely by accident. I use mindless spam to describe simple, repetitive use of limited abilities, not as an insult. I do get irritated with incessant complaining or complaining just to complain without any real evidence or consideration of adjustment based on change. Even then, I try to engage thought and view from another perspective. Don’t be hitting me with negative waves so early in the morning. Try to say something beautiful and righteous for a change...lmao For those who know that reference, many bonus points...lol We agree resurg/innerv is good. We simply disagree on losing the cooldown as a “nerf.” To me, the change is minimal and only affects frequency of use, not necessarily overall performance. I’m not a numbers person and not overly concerned about them. On the surface, yeah, losing frequency of use of the two best synergies looks bad on numbers, but only time and numbers will tell the story. I started healing during 5.10, learned from Dianiss’s guide and without having the cooldown to begin with, so any changes to “rotations” are minimal and an easy adjustment. For those accustomed to a certain style/order for a longer period of time, I understand how this feels like a “nerf.” But to me, nerf and adjust are different. I think with this adjustment to usage, healing numbers will be fine or the same without much, if any loss of hps/total healing, or whatever other numbers based metric people focus on. Numbers people smarter than I am will figure it out. And if they were posting those numbers and results to prove removing the cooldown is indeed a nerf, I certainly wouldn’t debate the topic...lol Again, just based on feel not numbers, the “nerf” will probably show up in sage/sorc heal spec DPS when using RM set. Just a hunch...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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