jedimasterjac Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Being a guild leader is a role of responsibility and running our guilds is a service. It's up to each guild leader to decide how seriously they want to take that and how they want to shape their guild but it's the players that make the guild what it is and if they did not like how the leadership handles things then they would leave. My personal philosophy is simply that I want my guild members to be happy and to have a safe environment to enjoy themselves. Over the 8+ years I've been running the guild I have observed that the vast majority of people are able to have a good time without the need to spoil the game for other players. We're not some zerg guild desperate for people to join us to boost our numbers so why would we let just anyone through the front door. Look, everyone has their own way of doing things. I'm not forcing my guild's methods of handling trolls on anybody. All I've asked is for a certain in-game limit to be increased. No new features or bug fixes. Dear producers, please significantly increase the limit so we can continue to keep out the trolls. Guild leader to guild leader, I promise you that you can effectively keep out trolls without needing to ban 1,000 unique accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) Guild leader to guild leader, I promise you that you can effectively keep out trolls without needing to ban 1,000 unique accounts. first problem is limits. There are different types of trolling guess it depends on what type of people that you want to have in your guild, personally I see nothing wrong with members of the guild Ula is in coming here and showing our support for the suggests, in the end we are the ones that have to have trolls, guild bank thieves, people who AFK in Warzones/GSF/Ranked be in the same guild as us and be associated with us. a higher limit would be great, as one of the main culprits in this thread already posted there are far more guilds active today than there was a while ago so he along with the several other players who steal from the guild bank, AFK in GSF or ranked warzones and troll other players in various ways have far more guilds that they can join if they wish to. However if they for some reason wants to continue to spoil the gaming experiance of players from a certain guild, they shouldn't be able to do this just because there is a cap on guild bans. Naturally, some guilds are alright with a certain type of toxic or trolling behaviour from their members, and that might be why you three are finding it hard to relate, so I can understand why you might not agree with the suggestion. Edited February 13, 2020 by RikuvonDrake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfishman Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 AFK in GSF... Naturally, some guilds are alright with a certain type of toxic or trolling behaviour from their members, and that might be why you three are finding it hard to relate, so I can understand why you might not agree with the suggestion. So you preemptively ban players... who aren't in your guild... but who AFK in a GSF match? That's ... interesting. I dislike those individuals, of course, but I think I understand how you reached your limit so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyaka_Jedi Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Comparing the OP to a fascist dictator is a bit rich Mero. The only purpose of it I suppose is to antagonize and burn this thread. The OP is suggesting an increase of a feature that is unpar with the ignore list, and so far that hasn't broken the game. As I see it the only reason you're against it is that you have a personal vendetta against the OP, and think this feature will curtail you from joining in your many new accounts... Devs please give us the tools to ban trolls like this from entering our guilds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icestar Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 If this is true, how can you even see what they're saying to know you should ban them? Or you mean you're happy that the officers ban people for you so you don't have to see it? I am happy that they ban players that act like morons in any chat, General chat is of no use to me since there is hardly any good information in it nowdays anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Comparing the OP to a fascist dictator You do need a bit of filling in on terminology there my friend. Most people have incorrect understanding of many terms from the past like fascism, nazism etc. You are clearly getting it wrong. As I see it the only reason you're against it is that you have a personal vendetta against the OP, and think this feature will curtail you from joining in your many new accounts... I do hold a grudge against the OP, that is true, yet, this is something entirely different. As you can see I am very active on the forums (i have a boring job and a lot of time to kill) and do these kind of discussions in many topics, not just this one. I like this game and do not want a minority of players to misslead it. I am very active in the PVP section when it comes to cheating, bans, tools against that, I am in the Operation/FPS/Heroic section where I am against making Macrobinocular Heroic soloable. So this is how you see it, but you see it incorrectly. your many new accounts... This is one of the examples of the lies the OP is making his guildmates spread. People have no idea but are told an info which they spread around. Tell me what would you do if a guild of 1000 spreads lies about you? How can you counter that? What tools do Devs give me? I have my main account and one more account, which I have in order to manage my guild, invite people, use summons etc. nothing more so please if you have no idea or facts, keep your mouth shut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyaka_Jedi Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I apologize, clearly you see the OP as a Nazi and you hold a grudge... And you admit to having multiple accounts (against TOS btw) you also admit to afking in GSF and are a regular on the forums, fighting for freedom from oppression. Such a pillar of the community... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 clearly you see the OP as a Nazi You wrote that, not me. And you admit to having multiple accounts (against TOS btw) you also admit to afking in GSF 2 accounts, yes, where in the ToS does it exactly say you cannot have that? I am curious. Whats wrong with afking in GSF? Imagine you play a match, suddenly your son falls from the stairs, what do you do? Do you type in chat that you have to go and log off before rushing to help him? Many people afk matches, some on purpose, some on not, its still the same thing in terms of the game. If the players do not like you afking they can kick you, the function is there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTergon Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 And you admit to having multiple accounts (against TOS btw). Not jumping to anyones defense, but it's not against the ToS to have multiple accounts, it's against the ToS to USE those accounts in such a way that 'cheats' the system. Don't have the excat reference, but it's been spammed here quite a lot. You'll find a lot of players have multiple accounts, especially back in the days when you had so little chars Also, just out of curiosity , what server is all this going down on? Just wondering if I'm in the guilds...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 I mean this thread is about getting guilds a larger ban list Yes and that is exactly how my argumentation started. I felt badly that OP and others still resort to picking on the past as it has nothing to do with this discussion, so I had to act on that. I simply said the guild should clean up themselves, not expand complex ingame tools which in the end influence the flow of the game (check my first post). Sadly the discussion went a different way with attacks at my person. The more the OP posted, the more we learned about his incorrect operation, which was confirmed by others in this thread. Looking at it from that point of view I am glad the discussion went further and all those details about pre-emptive banning surfaced, as that is definitely not what this ban feature was intented for (is my guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Also, just out of curiosity , what server is all this going down on? Just wondering if I'm in the guilds...lol Darth Malgus server. Not jumping to anyones defense I guess if you are in their guild they probably banned you now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyaka_Jedi Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Yes and that is exactly how my argumentation started. I felt badly that OP and others still resort to picking on the past as it has nothing to do with this discussion, so I had to act on that. I simply said the guild should clean up themselves, not expand complex ingame tools which in the end influence the flow of the game (check my first post). Sadly the discussion went a different way with attacks at my person. The more the OP posted, the more we learned about his incorrect operation, which was confirmed by others in this thread. Looking at it from that point of view I am glad the discussion went further and all those details about pre-emptive banning surfaced, as that is definitely not what this ban feature was intented for (is my guess). In this thread, you have attacked the OP, told me to shut up and blatantly advertised wanton behaviour that in most reasonable assumption will get you banned from any reasonable guild. To my surprise you're saying you're the injured party. This is not a crusade against you personally, but you want to make it all about you... Ppl have ignore lists, guilds have banlists. If it would be such a game breaking feature to up the cap, this game would have crashed and burned already. So please don't spread false rumours, that this will happen. Devs please increase the cap on the banlist, at some point clever screening in house policing and clever management, just isn't enough to combat the trolls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 In this thread, you have attacked the OP, told me to shut up You seriously need to learn to take a joke will get you banned from any reasonable guild. You presume too much. Not all guilds are actively sitting on fleet, reading general chat and pre-emptily banning people from their guild This is not a crusade against you personally Really? The posts say otherwise: Would expect that kind of answer from you since multiple of your accounts have been included in the in-game ban list since it was added Can you wait until Monday before you start replying here with your other accounts to back yourself up like you usually do. It will help bump the thread. oh boo hoo... want a tissue? someone is clearly jealous that they dont have a player base Mero again, quite ironic given the context of the thread You of all people should know.... Another example is someone in this thread I won't name... There were more, but just a few examples. I didnt make any such accusations, I kept it cool and factual. You, your guildies and OP were the ones who brought me up. Naming and shaming, blaming, spreading false rumors etc. Am I offended? No, its a game, nothing is real, you can write what you want, but I do not want you breaking the game with silly requests for the Devs. this game would have crashed and burned already Limits are there so it doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anyaka_Jedi Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 You seriously need to learn to take a joke You presume too much. Not all guilds are actively sitting on fleet, reading general chat and pre-emptily banning people from their guild Really? The posts say otherwise There were more, but just a few examples. I didnt make any such accusations, I kept it cool and factual. You, your guildies and OP were the ones who brought me up. Naming and shaming, blaming, spreading false rumors etc. Am I offended? No, its a game, nothing is real, you can write what you want, but I do not want you breaking the game with silly requests for the Devs. This is just being hypocritical. Your attacks are just jokes, while me just repeating what you just wrote is a personal attack on you. How can a reasonable request to the devs, adjusting a numerical value to an existing feature, be deemed as asking to call forth Armageddon? No offense, but I'd rather hear from the Devs themselves, if this can be an option or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 How can a reasonable request to the devs, adjusting a numerical value to an existing feature, be deemed as asking to call forth Armageddon? No offense, but I'd rather hear from the Devs themselves, if this can be an option or not. Non taken. Its understandable that the kids these days do not know how computers or software works. I can see it on my own kids. They take a tablet, smarphone etc and power it on. They know where the ON button is they know where to click and what to do to get a result. Yet they have no idea what is behind all this. When i was a kid and I turned on my computer I didnt see a nice wallpaper, the whole page was black and on top it said C:/ that was all. While making a few programs of my own I realised many different ways on how you can make a simple program very complex and slow running. Simply said, yes, changing a few numericals can cause a lot of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkTergon Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Darth Malgus server. I guess if you are in their guild they probably banned you now lol, i'm mostly on SF, so I think I'm safe Love the C/ reference, not a lot of people remember that these days...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UlaVii Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) Can you wait until after 14:00 UTC before you bump the thread with more irrelevant stories of how things were in the 80s and how they relate to this game or just keep them to the role playing forum since that seems to be your thing (14:00 UTC is 08:00 in Austin, Texas) Whilst changing a single number could have big ramifications if it was say "increasing maximum number of letters in a single chat message", the change I requested is nowhere near the same category. Some of the only times that number will be referenced is when the list is opened or a guild invite is done and the system loops through existing ban list entries. You've made it clear that you don't think this feature is used by many guilds so increasing the value to a figure that is useful for large busy guilds will not cripple the system as you keep implying. Dear producers, please significantly increase the limit so we can continue to keep out the trolls. As you can see with this thread, the ban list system does work and is clearly intimidating to those who have reason to fear it. Edited February 17, 2020 by UlaVii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfishman Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Can you wait until after 14:00 UTC before you bump the thread with more irrelevant stories of how things were in the 80s and how they relate to this game or just keep them to the role playing forum since that seems to be your thing (14:00 UTC is 08:00 in Austin, Texas) Whilst changing a single number could have big ramifications if it was say "increasing maximum number of letters in a single chat message", the change I requested is nowhere near the same category. Some of the only times that number will be referenced is when the list is opened or a guild invite is done and the system loops through existing ban list entries. You've made it clear that you don't think this feature is used by many guilds so increasing the value to a figure that is useful for large busy guilds will not cripple the system as you keep implying. Dear producers, please significantly increase the limit so we can continue to keep out the trolls. As you can see with this thread, the ban list system does work and is clearly intimidating to those who have reason to fear it. I have no legitimate reason to fear it (I'm respectful and not a troll), yet I still do because of the way that power is used arbitrarily. I've noticed that you have a guild that is so large that it doesn't even fit into one guild. This concept of banning accounts for such a huge portion of the player base can absolutely be used in a way that negatively impacts the ability for players to enjoy the game. Of course, there's nothing wrong with asking the devs to look at the issue, but there's also nothing wrong with pointing out how often players that are "perfect" abuse this kind of system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) I've noticed that you have a guild that is so large that it doesn't even fit into one guild. This concept of banning accounts for such a huge portion of the player base can absolutely be used in a way that negatively impacts the ability for players to enjoy the game. Of course, there's nothing wrong with asking the devs to look at the issue, but there's also nothing wrong with pointing out how often players that are "perfect" abuse this kind of system. I don't think that you reached the right conclusion when you wrote this, are you really suggesting that the guild with a bit above two thousand active characters (within the last two weeks) should not ban toxic trolls who AFK in ranked warzones, AFK in GSF/Warzones, flame and troll people when doing group content, steal from guild banks and ruin the gameplay for other members, because it could have a negative impact on these trolls enjoyment of the game? There are no "random" bans, I don't know how you run your guild, or how the guilds you are in are run, but since there are such a large amount of the players on the DM server has had/have an character in SMW there is no way that the bans are just "random", there is always a solid reason for them based on the rules. One of the key players banned is a regular poster in this thread and if you knew why he was banned I think you would stop agreeing with what he posts, at least I hope you would be that kind of person. Edited February 18, 2020 by RikuvonDrake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfishman Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 (edited) I don't think that you reached the right conclusion when you wrote this, are you really suggesting that the guild with a bit above two thousand active characters (within the last two weeks) should not ban toxic trolls who AFK in ranked warzones, AFK in GSF/Warzones, flame and troll people when doing group content, steal from guildbanks and ruin the gameplay for other members, because it could have a negative impact on these trolls enjoyment of the game? I hope you reconsider The fact that you label all of these players preventatively as trolls says a lot. The fact that you have no idea how other members of your guild arrive at the conclusion that someone is a troll also says a lot. Or do you believe that it's not possible for a person in your guild to ban someone because they got out-dpsed, because someone talked back to them in a flashpoint or because they simply don't like the person? Your hazy "troll" definition is the biggest reason of all why this is a terrible idea. Who gets to decide what is "ruining the gameplay for other members"? Edited February 18, 2020 by sharkfishman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 The fact that you label all of these players preventatively as trolls says a lot. The fact that you have no idea how other members of your guild arrive at the conclusion that someone is a troll also says a lot. Or do you believe that it's not possible for a person in your guild to ban someone because they got out-dpsed, because someone talked back to them in a flashpoint or because they simply don't like the person? I think you are confused about how the ban system works in SMW, a player is never banned "randomly", it's always done by the guild master and only if there are screenshots of ninja looting/guild bank theft/trolling/significant toxicity and so on. I have personally seen the reasons for most of the bans and there are very few cases that I feel are questionable, and even those who have gotten banned are given a chance at redemption. Once again, I am not sure how your guild is run or how the guild that you are in handle bans, but there is nothing arbitary about how SMW does it and the mere suggestion that someone would be banned cause they were out-dpsing/outhealing or simply disliked by an officer seems insane. A well-behaved player that works in a community with other players will never be banned, at least not in SMW, how you run your guild is up to you of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfishman Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 There are no "random" bans, I don't know how you run your guild, or how the guilds you are in are run, but since there are such a large amount of the players on the DM server has had/have an character in SMW there is no way that the bans are just "random", there is always a solid reason for them based on the rules. One of the key players banned is a regular poster in this thread and if you knew why he was banned I think you would stop agreeing with what he posts, at least I hope you would be that kind of person. I write what I believe, not what other people write. You have no way to know why each of those people banned is on your list, unless you were physically present at each occasion. The larger the size of your guild, the higher the possibility people can ban others for whatever reason they want, and then chalk it up to "AFK in WZ." In any case, you've brought your request to the devs, which is fine as I said, even though I strongly disagree with the way you're using it and want to continue using it in the future. There are many ways to abuse such a tool, similar to how the vote kick feature, false reporting and other things are used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfishman Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 As a side question I've been wondering since I discovered that your guild has 1,000 players+ (you just said 2,000 which is interesting since I guess you have 2 maxed out guilds as one), how do you handle ranked warzones anyway? Do you guys just queue against each other? It just piqued my curiosity, though it's not really related to the topic of the thread. I was just wondering how having such a huge guild works on a small server such as DM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I write what I believe, not what other people write. You have no way to know why each of those people banned is on your list, unless you were physically present at each occasion. The larger the size of your guild, the higher the possibility people can ban others for whatever reason they want, and then chalk it up to "AFK in WZ." In any case, you've brought your request to the devs, which is fine as I said, even though I strongly disagree with the way you're using it and want to continue using it in the future. There are many ways to abuse such a tool, similar to how the vote kick feature, false reporting and other things are used. Of course, I know why these players where banned from the guild, the list with links to screenshots of why players were banned, as in how they stole from guilds, were toxic in chat, were trolling other groups, flaming/insulting in discords, AFK:ing in ranked warzones/GSF and several other reasons, it's was all leaked and can be found by anyone. I guess you don't really know how someone gets banned, it can only be done by the guild master so no "random member" can just ban a player they dislike from the guild, and with an already limited system, the players who gets banned are mainly the ones actively trying to ruin the gameplay of others. Again, perhaps there are other guilds that don't mind such behaviour and that is totally fine, you can run your guild how you like. Who gets to decide what is "ruining the gameplay for other members"? the other members of the guild of course, if a significant amount of players in the guild complain about the toxic behaviour of a certain player and has proof of how they are actively trying to ruin the gameplay through ninja looting, toxicity, trolling etc. i don't understand how it can be considered weird that they get removed from the guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkfishman Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I think you are confused about how the ban system works in SMW, a player is never banned "randomly", it's always done by the guild master and only if there are screenshots of ninja looting/guild bank theft/trolling/significant toxicity and so on. I have personally seen the reasons for most of the bans and there are very few cases that I feel are questionable, and even those who have gotten banned are given a chance at redemption. Oh, you're not the guild master. I was confused about that. So you guys always take screenshots of people who are AFK in warzones and GSF matches? Or that kind of thing doesn't really happen much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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