If you think Marauder is weak...

[wrmrstacrdwower]

Great modifier stacking on an AoE ability to deal lots of damage. Really Rage PvP is sub par if you remove the modifiers for Smash.

[Sinkaro]

Great modifier stacking on an AoE ability to deal lots of damage. Really Rage PvP is sub par if you remove the modifiers for Smash.

 

Erm, isn't that the idea of speccing rage, is to get those modifiers for smash?

[Raiden-loire]

Once again you make a claim without Realizing How Hypocritical it makes you sound since you seem to think Harder = Better. two different extremes and yours is just as baseless as his claim

 

If the class is so perfect, and everyone who is complaining is just unable to play it properly and you are so Awesome, Then make a guide and try to help people learn to play the class instead of just saying they are baddies and need to Learn to play (Aka the people who are pretty much the problem with ALL mmo Communities, They like to complain about how bad people are, yet refuse to help them learn to be better thinking its Beneath them)

Edited January 2, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[Hizoka]

Once again you make a claim without Realizing How Hypocritical it makes you sound since you seem to think Harder = Better. two different extremes and yours is just as baseless as his claim

 

If the class is so perfect, and everyone who is complaining is just unable to play it properly and you are so Awesome, Then make a guide and try to help people learn to play the class instead of just saying they are baddies and need to Learn to play (Aka the people who are pretty much the problem with ALL mmo Communities, They like to complain about how bad people are, yet refuse to help them learn to be better thinking its Beneath them)

 

i never said harder = better. The classes are different, ig you do not like the Marauder do not play it, rather then constantly QQing on the forums that the class is broken simply because you lack the ability to play it well. If you see the easy faceroll classes as better play one of them. No-one is forcing you to play a marauder, the class is not broken, it actually is a very well balanced class that does what it is built to do, people just want something like a wow rogue that takes no skill to play and is grossly over powered in PvP.

[Raiden-loire]

i never said harder = better. The classes are different, ig you do not like the Marauder do not play it, rather then constantly QQing on the forums that the class is broken simply because you lack the ability to play it well. If you see the easy faceroll classes as better play one of them. No-one is forcing you to play a marauder, the class is not broken, it actually is a very well balanced class that does what it is built to do, people just want something like a wow rogue that takes no skill to play and is grossly over powered in PvP.

 

Yes.. rogues in wow, Aka if i recall correctly the most UNDERPLAYED class in the game, only probably now getting a spike because blizz pretty much had to bribe everyone with an easy legendary that only they could use with an actual Good quest line behind it that forces you to play your class well... And really, you think they are Overpowered... Lol

 

And i didnt say i dont have the ability to play it, I have pretty much done everything you have said you did, two gold mobs, i have taken down without dying on my own, top DMG in pvp, i have done as well(but that is pretty much pointless anyway, Though i was top Objective points as well a few times) I just think the class could be alot more fun to play, As easy as people think wow is, At least all its classes are at least a little bit fun and dont make you feel Weaker then others

 

also my argument isnt Easy = better, its FUN = BETTER

 

Also your Argument has mainly been that you want the class to have a high Skill cap to be able to play the class at a good lvl, Which generally means Harder to play correctly, So in other words, Harder = better

Edited January 2, 2012 by Raiden-loire

[Hizoka]

Yes.. rogues in wow, Aka if i recall correctly the most UNDERPLAYED class in the game, only probably now getting a spike because blizz pretty much had to bribe everyone with an easy legendary that only they could use with an actual Good quest line behind it that forces you to play your class well... And really, you think they are Overpowered... Lol

 

And i didnt say i dont have the ability to play it, I have pretty much done everything you have said you did, two gold mobs, i have taken down without dying on my own, top DMG in pvp, i have done as well(but that is pretty much pointless anyway, Though i was top Objective points as well a few times) I just think the class could be alot more fun to play, As easy as people think wow is, At least all its classes are at least a little bit fun and dont make you feel Weaker then others

 

also my argument isnt Easy = better, its FUN = BETTER

 

Also your Argument has mainly been that you want the class to have a high Skill cap to be able to play the class at a good lvl, Which generally means Harder to play correctly, So in other words, Harder = better

for some people harder = fun

[Raiden-loire]

for some people harder = fun

 

Some True.. But neither of us Can really claim With 100% certainty that either of our opinions represent the majority and to do so would foolish since forums never EVER truly represent what the majority want, and i guess we will just have to wait and see what bioware will do, since afterall, They are the ones who have the real #'s and data

Edited January 2, 2012 by Raiden-loire

[Arzhanin]

Hello folks,

 

We've gone ahead and done a bit of maintenance in this thread.

 

While we do understand opinions can get passionate about certain subjects, we do want to remind people to leave the insults and rude comments about opinions, playing ability, or other such things out of the thread and exchange opinions in a constructive manner.

 

Thanks all.

[wrmrstacrdwower]

Erm, isn't that the idea of speccing rage, is to get those modifiers for smash?

In PvP for PvP purposes yes. But SWTOR is too new a game and the PvP mechanics are to horrid to epeen over it. But that's not the intention from the use.

 

Using it to show a class's performance, no not really. At least not in any competitive PvP game I have ever played. Your taking a small portion of the class and saying because this is mediocre and it's an AoE everything is fine and dandy; where the rest of the class could suck to no abysmal end.

 

A prime example, if you have played the game, is the Retribution Paladin from WoW. Due to it's mechanics it can potentially be a high burst survivability spec and also due to that same potential has been a spec that has underperformed in PvP and PvE to varying degrees.

 

And that's what those videos are. Just highlights of a small segment of the class and a spec that doesn't really account for a larger portion of anything. SWTOR may wind up being a PvP competitive game no one really knows, although it's unlikely with how things currently are, but it is a Story Driven MMO which means that class's really need to be able to perform appropriately in the PvE setting.

[Hizoka]

In PvP for PvP purposes yes. But SWTOR is too new a game and the PvP mechanics are to horrid to epeen over it. But that's not the intention from the use.

 

Using it to show a class's performance, no not really. At least not in any competitive PvP game I have ever played. Your taking a small portion of the class and saying because this is mediocre and it's an AoE everything is fine and dandy; where the rest of the class could suck to no abysmal end.

 

A prime example, if you have played the game, is the Retribution Paladin from WoW. Due to it's mechanics it can potentially be a high burst survivability spec and also due to that same potential has been a spec that has underperformed in PvP and PvE to varying degrees.

 

And that's what those videos are. Just highlights of a small segment of the class and a spec that doesn't really account for a larger portion of anything. SWTOR may wind up being a PvP competitive game no one really knows, although it's unlikely with how things currently are, but it is a Story Driven MMO which means that class's really need to be able to perform appropriately in the PvE setting.

 

this is not a PvP gamew... i dunnow hy so many are stuck on it. This sia story driven PvE game it just have a PvP mini game called Warzones.

[andysdead]

I'm just going to go ahead and suggest that if you can't solo with your marauder that you're bad.

 

Level 43 now, doing my class quests on Voss with mobs 2-3 levels higher than me. No big deal. It gets harder after 40? No way. Learn to spec and learn the rotation. Level 40 is when this class really starts to shine.

[Raiden-loire]

I'm just going to go ahead and suggest that if you can't solo with your marauder that you're bad.

 

Level 43 now, doing my class quests on Voss with mobs 2-3 levels higher than me. No big deal. It gets harder after 40? No way. Learn to spec and learn the rotation. Level 40 is when this class really starts to shine.

 

If thats the Case then why dont you Write a guide and try to help people learn there class Instead of just sitting back posting comments that essentially are there to say how much more awesome you are, Everyone saying L2P need to remember something, THE GAME IS NEW, there are FEW resources people can look at for help with Spec's and Rotation, No one is writing them So if the Class is fine and its just a Case of L2p, THEN TEACH PEOPLE,

[Hizoka]

If thats the Case then why dont you Write a guide and try to help people learn there class Instead of just sitting back posting comments that essentially are there to say how much more awesome you are, Everyone saying L2P need to remember something, THE GAME IS NEW, there are FEW resources people can look at for help with Spec's and Rotation, No one is writing them So if the Class is fine and its just a Case of L2p, THEN TEACH PEOPLE,

 

why should people waste their time making a guild for people who cannot learn on their own?

 

If you NEED a guild to play this class then you simply do not have what it takes to play the class, there is nothing wrong with that, but do not claim the class is broken because of it.

 

I was in beta i did have the change to work with this class for the past 7 months, its not hard to learn, however most players now rather QQ and say the class is broken then take time to learn to play it regardless of a guild or not. A guild only helps people smart enough to use it and QQers aren't that smart.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Hizoka

[andysdead]

If thats the Case then why dont you Write a guide and try to help people learn there class Instead of just sitting back posting comments that essentially are there to say how much more awesome you are, Everyone saying L2P need to remember something, THE GAME IS NEW, there are FEW resources people can look at for help with Spec's and Rotation, No one is writing them So if the Class is fine and its just a Case of L2p, THEN TEACH PEOPLE,

 

There's already a guide. I used it. It was helpful.

[andysdead]

A prime example, if you have played the game, is the Retribution Paladin from WoW. Due to it's mechanics it can potentially be a high burst survivability spec and also due to that same potential has been a spec that has underperformed in PvP and PvE to varying degrees.

 

Funny, I topped damage meters and ranked in PvP with a retribution paladin in WoW before they buffed it too.

[Raiden-loire]

why should people waste their time making a guild for people who cannot learn on their own?

 

If you NEED a guild to play this class then you simply do not have what it takes to play the class, there is nothing wrong with that, but do not claim the class is broken because of it.

 

Once again, i will repeat, I myself Dont have much issues playing the class, I have leveled to 50, and pretty much done everything your boasted doing, But i actually see that there could be improvement on the class and have actually tried to help people at least do better, While all you and alot of other Super Special Little Snowflakes have done is Say, " your a baddie, L2p/ Reroll/ Uninstall or Just die" the few who have made guides, I have Supported and thanked for there Attempts at trying to help others, NOT EVERYONE is Super Leet at MMO games and can figure everything out Immediately. Hence why Guides Are helpful And probably one of the best things wow has going for it is the DEEP long list of Resources people can use to try and improve at there class

 

And i will once again say, Neither of Us can claim to be Representing the majority Since Forums are a BAD representation of them(wow is proof of that) We will just need to wait and See what bioware does in the coming weeks to see what is the truth of the matter

Edited January 2, 2012 by Raiden-loire

[Raiden-loire]

Funny, I topped damage meters and ranked in PvP with a retribution paladin in WoW before they buffed it too.

 

Ya, wasnt that hard Really, Ret's Since well, the start of ICC have had a Huge amount of Burst at our Disposal and all you needed to due was just be careful about how your approached every situation in PVP(or had a pocket Healer) aside from that though, not so much(remember when ret was nerfed Because they were strong in LOW lvl pvp when pretty much all the top arena players said ret could use a PVP buff at the high end). Blizz Admitted it even after Hundreds of Players said Ret was fine, and L2p, hence why blizz tried to balance it out, Hell People said that about rets back in TBC, When almost the majority, and blizzard agreed Rets were broken as hell, Could people still be fairly Successful with them, Oh heck ya, Doesn't mean they weren't broken

[wrmrstacrdwower]

Funny, I topped damage meters and ranked in PvP with a retribution paladin in WoW before they buffed it too.

And your point is what exactly? Retribution did well in 5s, decent in 3s if you had a good team and was terrible in 2s in the 2100+ bracket. Still doesn't change the fact that in equivalence for gear there where 3-4 class that performed better then Ret. You could even go as far to say 6 class's depending on the heals played with.

 

Then again no one is saying Marauders are a weak PvP class.

 

PvE retribution post 4.3 is a mid paced raid spec in equivalence, with buff mind you, a flat average of 22k dps, 25k if inquisition was kept up which is comparable to several other specs. And thats not using gimmick fights with encounter based DPS buffs. Mind you WotlK retribution was fairly god like.

 

And no one is saying Marauders DPS is poor, at least no one that is following a rotation. What most people are saying is that Marauders seem to have a deficiency with survivability. Think of marauders as the Fury Warriors of WoW. Just better at the hitting stuff part.

[Dignam]

video of a guy with out key binds who interups half his own casts? All this shows is that most of the marauder population has downs.

[Majinr]

If thats the Case then why dont you Write a guide and try to help people learn there class Instead of just sitting back posting comments that essentially are there to say how much more awesome you are, Everyone saying L2P need to remember something, THE GAME IS NEW, there are FEW resources people can look at for help with Spec's and Rotation, No one is writing them So if the Class is fine and its just a Case of L2p, THEN TEACH PEOPLE,

 

ok the guides i looked at are all over the place some even from other games like rift and wow - but as the mechanics are similar they were easily translated here - (i Am Anni btw) - well first guide I looked at is - http://taugrim.com/ - he has great advice on how to keybind and has many commentary videos on swtor pvp - He mainly plays a BH - but he does give you advice on how to effectively play in each battleground - (lyk how not to die by choosing to do the wrong thing and lil tips that go a long way)

 

If you look back at some of his earlier vids there shuld be a video for sentinels

 

Second place I went to is http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Forum-Sith-Warrior-and-Jedi-Knight - its a reali good page for theorycrafting - got all my spec advice from there esp the Anni thread. So yes there you go

 

And third, I just kinda worked and tested and practised with the class and got the hang of it - its not hard at all but if you do need guides I'd suggest going to those places

 

If your still struggling after going to those places + the guides on this forum - then I'm sorry the class maybe not for you, whereas I'm enjoying it to the fullest

 

But the point is resources are out there, trust me there were out there even before the game was to be released.. You jus had to spend 5 mins to look for them - so instead of QQing, if you giv us a scenario or something you struggle with then we would gladly help you - because writing a full guide takes a lot of time which not everyone has including me

Edited January 2, 2012 by Majinr

[Teladis]

Most of the guides are common sense, I read them and already knew that crap before they even told me.

 

 

That does not change the core of the problems with the class, That is even with defense cds, you still drop like a wet noodle. We need something to either cc strong mobs, or at least give us a strike that heals.

 

 

Wtb victory rush.

[RagingSage]

No offence but you sorta miss the point, no one is saying its impossible to kill elites, most people are having problems with killing groups of enemys which the game throws at you constantly. Marauder has trouble sustaining damage from multiple enemys and surviving, a video of you killing one elite isnt going to change anyones mind. And yes the clicking is bad, and yes it will effect your playstyle especially in PVP.

 

 

This is exactly it. The problem with the class is in survivability against groups. I had few problems on Hoth or Belsavis, but Voss is giving me a run for my money.

 

In the class quest to kill the gormak warmaster, the groups protecting the shield generators are made up of two strong melee mobs, 45-46. They kick my ***. The best I can do is kill one of them, die, then kill the second. I completed both groups this way, confronted the warmaster, died before I could finish him, but got his guards. When I rezzed, the guards had also rezzed, but were friendly. I killed the warmaster on his own, and did not receive credit for the quest. He respawned, I killed him a second time. With that not working, I reset the quest, which made me start over from the first objective in the area, finding the voss cave. How lovely.

 

So let me assure you, as I am now "completing" this quest chain for the second time, the marauder is weak. This weakness was evident throughout the class's storyline, but only now has reached the point where it is almost impossible to overcome.

 

Buff the marauder, nerf the quest enemies, do whichever, just do one of them now bioware.

 

And while I'm at it, I may as well throw in how much the in-game service is terrible. Not on topic, just no reason not to say it.

[Hizoka]

Most of the guides are common sense, I read them and already knew that crap before they even told me.

 

 

That does not change the core of the problems with the class, That is even with defense cds, you still drop like a wet noodle. We need something to either cc strong mobs, or at least give us a strike that heals.

 

 

Wtb victory rush.

 

then go play wow where skill does not matter.

 

 

 

The class is fine, the only problem with it is the people playing it are 1 bad players 2 refuse to realize they are bad players.

 

It does not matter what you did in WoW, wow takes 0 skill to play they took skill out of the game, this is not wow. Marauders are a class that perform only as well as the person playing them, and most suck. However when you find someone who knows what they are doing they seem to not take any damage and kill you in seconds. If only 1 person is able to acive it it means the class is not broken, and far more then just 1 person is able to make the class look over powered, just because you can't does not mean its not possible.

[Hizoka]

This is exactly it. The problem with the class is in survivability against groups. I had few problems on Hoth or Belsavis, but Voss is giving me a run for my money.

 

In the class quest to kill the gormak warmaster, the groups protecting the shield generators are made up of two strong melee mobs, 45-46. They kick my ***. The best I can do is kill one of them, die, then kill the second. I completed both groups this way, confronted the warmaster, died before I could finish him, but got his guards. When I rezzed, the guards had also rezzed, but were friendly. I killed the warmaster on his own, and did not receive credit for the quest. He respawned, I killed him a second time. With that not working, I reset the quest, which made me start over from the first objective in the area, finding the voss cave. How lovely.

 

So let me assure you, as I am now "completing" this quest chain for the second time, the marauder is weak. This weakness was evident throughout the class's storyline, but only now has reached the point where it is almost impossible to overcome.

 

Buff the marauder, nerf the quest enemies, do whichever, just do one of them now bioware.

 

And while I'm at it, I may as well throw in how much the in-game service is terrible. Not on topic, just no reason not to say it.

 

funny i have done and can still easily take out large groups without issue, the problem is not the defensice of the class its people not using the skills wisely, things like pacify/obfuscate or using the skill that basically one shot normal mobs that can only be used in PvE, using cloak of pain/rebuke properly.

 

I easily can kill a group of 4 strings and 3-5 normals without losing half HP WITHOUT a healing companion, all you have to do is play correctly. The class is not the issue its the bad players that blame the class instead of their crappy play.

[Raiden-loire]

then go play wow where skill does not matter.

 

 

 

The class is fine, the only problem with it is the people playing it are 1 bad players 2 refuse to realize they are bad players.

 

It does not matter what you did in WoW, wow takes 0 skill to play they took skill out of the game, this is not wow. Marauders are a class that perform only as well as the person playing them, and most suck. However when you find someone who knows what they are doing they seem to not take any damage and kill you in seconds. If only 1 person is able to acive it it means the class is not broken, and far more then just 1 person is able to make the class look over powered, just because you can't does not mean its not possible.

 

Wow takes 0 skill to play.. Alright then, lets go with that then, Link your Characters With multiple Gladiator Titles, Heroic Deathwing And Rag kills, Heroic Lich king kill from when he was current, multiple legendary weapons from when they were current, Come on, Do it, if Wow takes 0 skill then you should be able to do it

 

Low lvl wow takes little Skill, High end arena's and PVE content take quite a good amount of skill, to say otherwise is just plain stupid and ignorant