JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 For some reason some people on the forums take discussions about SWTOR personally and then feel a need to stalk you around the forums picking fights. Hey, at least be glad he doesn't report you for hurting his feelings. Lhance, I pretty much only post in the pvp section, and I've never reported anyone on the forums. Nice try though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) He was the one who was pumping PTs to defend sins, so it's relevant I'm afraid. How would you have known it was wrong if not for myself and others questioning it? I only use that to counter the notion that some people have "why argue on the forums, just let people have opinions." If you just let opinions stand unopposed, then people can often get wrong impressions. It's nearly always a good thing to argue against what you think is wrong, especially on a public forum when that's kind of the point lol. And I never said you couldn't appreciate Kre'a, by all means do. I've also never criticized any of his guides. Ironically though, your attitude towards him here, and defense of him, actually makes it all the more necessary to challenge him when he's wrong. I never pumped up PTs to defend Sins, it's like anything I say to you is to defend sins. "I love mcdonalds", you: "exactly what somone who defends sins would say, burn the witch!" I pumped up PTs because PTs were strong and it was unnoticed. And I was right about PTs. They got nerfed in the most recent patch notes because of how strong they were. But idk, what do I know Edited November 14, 2019 by Jinre_the_Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 I never pumped up PTs to defend Sins, it's like anything I say to you is to defend sins. "I love mcdonalds", you: "exactly what somone who defends sins would say, burn the witch!" I pumped up PTs because PTs were strong and it was unnoticed. And I was right about PTs. They got nerfed in the most recent patch notes because of how strong they were. But idk, what do I know Are you implying that I should stop crying about a class that is possibly balanced but does have 1 aspect of it that is considered pretty strong? That would be a really immature thing to do, wouldn't it? Maybe you're right, maybe it is just crying after all. I'm sure this premise couldn't possibly be applied anywhere else This is exactly the topic where it became clear that you were arguing in bad faith regarding sin nerfs. Again, your words are there for all to see. Also, they nerfed one set bonus for pts, not the class itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 This is exactly the topic where it became clear that you were arguing in bad faith regarding sin nerfs. Again, your words are there for all to see. Also, they nerfed one set bonus for pts, not the class itself. The set bonus is what made the class do absurd things. Just like the Death Knell set bonus is what's making Sin do the damage it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 The set bonus is what made the class do absurd things. Just like the Death Knell set bonus is what's making Sin do the damage it does. Fair enough, but my other point still stands. Your quote from that thread makes it clear that you didn't fully believe in what you were saying. You were just saying it because you thought other people were unfairly blasting sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Fair enough, but my other point still stands. Your quote from that thread makes it clear that you didn't fully believe in what you were saying. You were just saying it because you thought other people were unfairly blasting sins. At this point I'm done defending my opinion that I believe sins should be nerfed to you, it's not worth the argument anymore. I made my statement, I think they should nerf sins. If that's not genuine enough for you, I don't really care anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) At this point I'm done defending my opinion that I believe sins should be nerfed to you, it's not worth the argument anymore. I made my statement, I think they should nerf sins. If that's not genuine enough for you, I don't really care anymore. Maybe you really do think that now, though there's still evidence to the contrary (see post #31 of this thread), doesn't really matter to me. But, you still seem to think I'm being unfair when I say you were arguing in bad faith. So maybe you can help me out. Why did you say this and what did you mean by it? Are you implying that I should stop crying about a class that is possibly balanced but does have 1 aspect of it that is considered pretty strong? That would be a really immature thing to do, wouldn't it? Maybe you're right, maybe it is just crying after all. I'm sure this premise couldn't possibly be applied anywhere else Edited November 14, 2019 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinre_the_Jedi Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Maybe you really do think that now, doesn't really matter to me. But, you still seem to think I'm being unfair when I say you were arguing in bad faith. So maybe you can help me out. Why did you say this and what did you mean by it? You can both point out how idiotic specific logic is via sarcasm while simultaneously actually believing that Sin should be nerfed, people aren't 1 dimensional beings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndriusAjax Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) He was the one who was pumping PTs to defend sins, so it's relevant I'm afraid. How would you have known it was wrong if not for myself and others questioning it? Lol... by playing it...? Do you think your argument changed my opinion? You hold yourself in very high esteem... and that's actually the root of this debate in my opinion Edited November 14, 2019 by AndriusAjax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) You can both point out how idiotic specific logic is via sarcasm while simultaneously actually believing that Sin should be nerfed, people aren't 1 dimensional beings. That quote was about the PTs though. You directly implied that you were "crying" on purpose to show people that similar crying about sins was unjustified. Lol... by playing it...? Do you think your argument changed my opinion? You hold yourself in very high esteem... and that's actually the root of this debate in my opinion Playing it without the set bonus or tactical? How is that valuable. I am very doubtful lol. You also specifically said you realized it was just a way to deflect from sins, which is exactly what the context of the thread was. You're just back pedaling now. I also wasn't trying to take full credit, there were plenty of others in that thread saying similar things. Edited November 14, 2019 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndriusAjax Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Playing it without the set bonus or tactical? How is that valuable. I am very doubtful lol. You also specifically said you realized it was just a way to deflect from sins, which is exactly what the context of the thread was. You're just back pedaling now. I also wasn't trying to take full credit, there were plenty of others in that thread saying similar things. I did have the full set bonus... In the thread that you took that from, I was actually upset at BW for removing the ability to refund pieces because I did just that. And to be clear, and this honestly should go without saying, I appreciate everyone's opinion. I appreciate Krea's opinions and I appreciate your counter opinions, as well as others. The dissemination of information is always a good thing. But when an alpha starts trying to bring others down just to make himself feel better, I get a little annoyed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 And to be clear, and this honestly should go without saying, I appreciate everyone's opinion. I appreciate Krea's opinions and I appreciate your counter opinions, as well as others. The dissemination of information is always a good thing. But when an alpha starts trying to bring others down just to make himself feel better, I get a little annoyed. I completely agree with you here. It's not my intention to bring anyone down or make anyone look bad. I always try to stay specifically grounded in whatever the argument itself is (though I'm not perfect). And I'm on here without advertising who I even am in-game, so it's not like I'm trying to make myself look good in some weird way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndriusAjax Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) I completely agree with you here. It's not my intention to bring anyone down or make anyone look bad. I always try to stay specifically grounded in whatever the argument itself is (though I'm not perfect). And I'm on here without advertising who I even am in-game, so it's not like I'm trying to make myself look good in some weird way. I definitely don't think you're trying to make yourself look good. Edited November 14, 2019 by AndriusAjax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) I definitely don't think you're trying to make yourself look good. Oh man, you edited too fast, though it is more directly insulting now, which is nice. I actually think you weren't totally wrong though lol. I enjoy arguing on the forums to some degree, otherwise I wouldn't do it . But I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as I only argue for things I actually believe in. I never argue for no reason or just to antagonize people. Edited November 14, 2019 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndriusAjax Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Oh man, you edited too fast. I actually think you weren't totally wrong lol. I enjoy arguing on the forums to some degree, otherwise I wouldn't do it . But I don't think there's anything wrong with that as long as I only argue for things I actually believe in. I never argue for no reason or just to antagonize people. Oh no, I think I was right lol. I just didn't want to make things slightly personal as it seemed like the argument was winding down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndriusAjax Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Oh man, you edited too fast, though it is more directly insulting now, which is nice. Hey, I was just agreeing with you. When you're right you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Oh no, I think I was right lol. I just didn't want to make things slightly personal as it seemed like the argument was winding down It might be, but Coppes promised 10 pages and we're only at like 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltraFlashStar Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 It might be, but Coppes promised 10 pages and we're only at like 2. Give it time, it’s only been 1 hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Lhance, I pretty much only post in the pvp section, and I've never reported anyone on the forums. Nice try though. You misunderstood me, I guess. My point was you don't report people unlike some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 You misunderstood me, I guess. My point was you don't report people unlike some others. I see. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 You misunderstood me, I guess. My point was you don't report people unlike some others. Yep, the old bait and report posters. I know Alex isn’t one, but there are plenty of them around the forums who do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septru Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Sorry for going to old quotes... but there is a key element of the argument that needs to be addressed. In this exact thread, I said "I'm saying this as a Sin, the burst from Sin's opener should be nerfed, that's fair." Yes, I start discussing other classes after that, but as Prum said earlier in this thread, one class being too strong doesn't justify another class being too strong. So my talking about classes other than sin does not detract from my statement saying that their opener should be nerfed. I'm saying this as a Sin, the burst from Sin's opener should be nerfed, that's fair. But Sorcerer is monstrous right now, they even have insanely high Damage Reduction, it's almost as much as a Marauder. Sniper, Sorc and Operative are the top 3 classes atm for sure. You can all hate on Sins all you want, but just wait until you see some of the top players on Sniper, Operative and Sorc. It's scary. It very well may be that sorcs and to a lesser extend operatives and snipers need to be nerfed. But those classes being really strong does not negate the fact sin is also strong (as Krea acknowledged). Let them nerf the opener, I’ll still be playing my sins with all my other classes. It’s the only way you can truely understand a class and know how to fight against them better. The problem is not the opener. Spike is strong but spike is not the part that does the damage. The problem is maul spam. I'd even be fine with 60k mauls, but not progressively. I am so *********** afraid of breaking in a game with 1 or more sins because I know it will haunt me later on. I can mitigate the opener. As Krea and others have mentioned, the opener should not kill kids. But its the fact that 1 sniper can maul spam you from 60% to 0% in one hardstun somewhere down the road is too strong. Operative doesn't have that power. Sniper doesn't have that power. Sorc doesn't have that power. Granted there are force management problems, but IMO they are not significant enough. For 2 reasons.... 1) If you get your mauls to land they can kill a kid, and once you get a 3v4 energy problems are not significant because 3v4s are so disadvantage to the other team. 2) Sin has a fast energy regen (compared to other classes). You might be stuck chilling and kiting if a sin maul spams, but you can shortly get back into the fight. Classes like sorc and sniper ACTUALLY have energy management problems. You spam AOE as Madness or Engi and you will end up doing nothing but basic attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 And no one has even brought up the fact that snipers were just nerfed. Imperial Preparation not resetting roll isn't huge, but it's still a noteworthy nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
septru Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 No that's the way it was supposed to be. 4 rolls is retaaarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterAlex Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 (edited) No that's the way it was supposed to be. 4 rolls is retaaarded. That's only with the repositioning set bonus if I'm understanding you correctly. It's a shame they couldn't just nerf that, rather than nerfing a class ability. Like I said, it's not a huge deal, but it is a nerf nonetheless. Edited November 14, 2019 by JediMasterAlex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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