6.0 Gearing

[Mikeieveli]

I have been a long time subscriber, joined the game 1 month shy of the founder title. I love this game. But the gearing and the direction of solo play made me decide to not play this previous expansion for the most part. I am anxious to try out 6.0, but I and I am sure the community as well, would love to hear some details on gearing. How will gearing work in 6.0 specifically? Can we see some details please? Thanks.

[tummiswtor]

I have been a long time subscriber, joined the game 1 month shy of the founder title. I love this game. But the gearing and the direction of solo play made me decide to not play this previous expansion for the most part. I am anxious to try out 6.0, but I and I am sure the community as well, would love to hear some details on gearing. How will gearing work in 6.0 specifically? Can we see some details please? Thanks.

 

Just wanted to create smilar topic.

Does 6.0 gear 75 level cap willrequire masterwork & monumental crystals? Or again we gonna have something new?

[Quraswren]

I have been a long time subscriber, joined the game 1 month shy of the founder title. I love this game. But the gearing and the direction of solo play made me decide to not play this previous expansion for the most part. I am anxious to try out 6.0, but I and I am sure the community as well, would love to hear some details on gearing. How will gearing work in 6.0 specifically? Can we see some details please? Thanks.

 

I'm sure details are coming but what we should all expect is that anything you have now with be relatively worthless once the new expansion launches. Gear will quickly be useless for the most part. Unassembled parts and some other tokens will get a less than amazing trade in value like we have seen before that will give just the smallest boost to something new.

 

I'm curious if they will use the galactic command which they had finally got working decently to where you could actually play the way you wanted and get gear or will biwoare fall back to the OPS/PVP or die mentality.

 

So many things that could screw this new gearing thing up and it took forever to get galactic command to something worth playing butI haven't forgotten just how bad galactic command was when it first launched so a new gear system has me worried.

[Mikeieveli]

I'm sure details are coming but what we should all expect is that anything you have now with be relatively worthless once the new expansion launches. Gear will quickly be useless for the most part. Unassembled parts and some other tokens will get a less than amazing trade in value like we have seen before that will give just the smallest boost to something new.

 

I'm curious if they will use the galactic command which they had finally got working decently to where you could actually play the way you wanted and get gear or will biwoare fall back to the OPS/PVP or die mentality.

 

So many things that could screw this new gearing thing up and it took forever to get galactic command to something worth playing butI haven't forgotten just how bad galactic command was when it first launched so a new gear system has me worried.

 

Personally I am hoping for a combination of both. I want to be able to buy PvP gear for PvP with PvP comms like it was before. With Galactic Command to supplement it.

 

As for gear being obsolete, it should be. I dont say this as a returning player that didnt play for an xpac. I am saying this as a MMO player who knows whenever you have an level increase the current gear will be obsolete. Its how it should be.

[KendraP]

As for gear being obsolete, it should be. I dont say this as a returning player that didnt play for an xpac. I am saying this as a MMO player who knows whenever you have an level increase the current gear will be obsolete. Its how it should be.

 

I agree but their phrasing has me worried. It's this paragraph from the announcement I read:

 

These item sets can be acquired through multiple paths. "Acquire your gear no matter how you choose to play: Player vs Environment, Player vs Player, Galactic Command, and Crafting are all viable." See here: http://www.swtor.com/info/news/article/20190413

 

The first sentence specifically says "item sets". The second sentence is promising though, referencing "acquire gear however you choose."

 

I just keep repeating this to remind Musco et al: I do not like how 252/8 is locked behind Ossus (and think it was stupid to add it in the first place) and continuing with this being the top gear would be a killing point for me.

 

I'll accept crappy conversion rates to a new system if I must. I will not accept a continuance of 258 being top gear. I have despite everything remained subscribed to this game, in hopes for 6.0 and accepting not having top gear. Refusing to change from Ossus gearing would stop my subscription.

[merovejec]

I just keep repeating this to remind Musco et al: I do not like how 252/8 is locked behind Ossus (and think it was stupid to add it in the first place) and continuing with this being the top gear would be a killing point for me.

 

I explained many times that Bioware wants the players to always play the newest content so that they get the needed numbers for management. So the newest "locations" or "events" always have to be the most played parts of the game. One way of making players do this is to tie something to it, like gear or so.

 

They seem to have good feedback from players on the fact that they can get the best gear by not having to do operations. They simply farm their crystals and can be full 258 (or at least without MH and OH) easily. So based on this they will continue with this approach for a easy (but I suppose lengthy) gear grind.

[Collec]

What can you expect?

 

Here's a short list:

 

GRIND, GRIND GRIND

 

**** Legacy because why would they make anything easy.

 

Let's make them grind for 2 sets on 1 toon, because we know they will.

 

Out in September, so it's time for new gear 268 or something.

 

**** Galacitc Command, some new and even *******r way to grind for gear like every other time.

 

And then watch them do their PR stuff trying to defend their choices.

[KendraP]

I explained many times that Bioware wants the players to always play the newest content so that they get the needed numbers for management. So the newest "locations" or "events" always have to be the most played parts of the game. One way of making players do this is to tie something to it, like gear or so.

I've hypothesized this myself if you've bothered reading. Self manipulated data proves nothing, however.

 

The newest content should be played because it is in fact new, and thus people want to play new things. Upending an existing gearing system so they could call Ossus a success is astonishingly dim witted

 

Were they not expecting Ossus to be enjoyable enough that players wanted to participate rather than do the same stuff over again? If true, they should look at what they can do to make content more pleasurable than hard nosedly forcing it via gear.

 

As I've mentioned, I'm not doing anything else involving ossus or 252/8 gear. They want to play stupid games, I'll give them a stupid prize. One less statistic doing ossus. I suggest anyone else irked by their strategy join me, and maybe tilt the scale.

 

Also, I did not explain this in my earlier post because I was attempting to look forward, and get answers as to what they are doing in the future, rather than consistently rail on their stupid past decisions.

 

So far 6.0 seems very ambitious. I wish I could say I was cautiously optimistic. On paper I like the concept of "play your way." The problem I have is that their previous history suggests that whatever they choose to implement will be done in both the dumbest way possible and contain game breaking bugs no matter how much they test it.

 

They seem to have good feedback from players on the fact that they can get the best gear by not having to do operations. They simply farm their crystals and can be full 258 (or at least without MH and OH) easily. So based on this they will continue with this approach for a easy (but I suppose lengthy) gear grind.

 

They did this to themselves. This argument has taken place all over. By combining gear they eliminated one issue (multiple gear sets) and created another (gearing must be possible for PvP players, so without doing NiM/HM ops).

 

I assume you're implying it's bad to get BiS gear without doing NiM (thanks to the lack of a point in the opening sentence, I can't be certain). As a ranked PvPer supposedly you should be aware of the impact of a potential gear gap.

 

Whether solo players need or want or should be able to get BiS gear is another can of worms entirely, and since I'm not a solo only player, I'm not even going to bother addressing it. Solo players affect only themselves so I don't see why anyone chooses to care what gear they use. What does it affect NiMers/PvPers if a solo guy has BiS gear? It doesn't. So why care? If your ego is that fragile you need some real accomplishments.

Edited April 16, 2019 by KendraP

[Mikeieveli]

As I've mentioned, I'm not doing anything else involving ossus or 252/8 gear. They want to play stupid games, I'll give them a stupid prize. One less statistic doing ossus. I suggest anyone else irked by their strategy join me, and maybe tilt the scale.

 

Also, I did not explain this in my earlier post because I was attempting to look forward, and get answers as to what they are doing in the future, rather than consistently rail on their stupid past decisions.

 

So far 6.0 seems very ambitious. I wish I could say I was cautiously optimistic. On paper I like the concept of "play your way." The problem I have is that their previous history suggests that whatever they choose to implement will be done in both the dumbest way possible and contain game breaking bugs no matter how much they test it.

 

 

 

This argument has taken place all over. By combining gear they eliminated one issue (multiple gear sets) and created another (gearing must be possible for PvP players, so without doing NiM/HM ops).

 

I assume you're implying it's bad to get BiS gear without doing NiM (thanks to the lack of a point in the opening sentence, I can't be certain). As a ranked PvPer supposedly you should be aware of the impact of a potential gear gap.

 

Whether solo players need or want or should be able to get BiS gear is another can of worms entirely, and since I'm not a solo only player, I'm not even going to bother addressing it. Solo players affect only themselves so I don't see why anyone chooses to care what gear they use. What does it affect NiMers/PvPers if a solo guy has BiS gear? It doesn't. So why care? If your ego is that fragile you need some real accomplishments.

 

I'm pretty sure its standard that old raids/OPs are obsolete once an expansion hits. Just like with their previous expansions you will have to grind a new set of gear once you are max level without revisiting old OPs content.

 

I agree with you, there must be a path for PvPers to be able to get gear. That is what I will be looking for and a deciding factor on whether or not I return to the game.

[Jdast]

The good news is that Eric largely acknowledged the problem with the 5.10 / Ossus gearing model last month during a podcast. In his own words, and I'm using quotes around his direct language...

 

He acknowledged that 5.10 created "friction" and "how you acquire gear is just as important as the gear itself." He attributed this directly to 5.10 being "largely completely divorced from Galactic Command."

 

That's good news. From November 2017 to December 2018, the system made all content relevant while understandably lessening the impact of RNG by offering drops from Ops, etc.

 

I'm a half-glass full kind of guy, but I disagree that they try to pad numbers in specific types of content to impress management. Management cares about the number of paying players / cartel market sales; i.e., profits. Do you really think Keith goes to upper management with spreadsheets about the number of people playing Ossus? At the end of the day, management cares about one thing and one thing only.

 

In other words, we shall see. Like many, I'm skeptical about the new gearing system until I see details. But we can at least take some solace and comfort in knowing they understand the concerns about 5.10. And -- knowledge is half the battle, or at least a first step.

 

Personally, I think they were so fixated on 6.0 / Onslaught that they just did 5.10 gearing as a one off, not understanding (or caring about) the problems it created. I think they figured that "hey, we're not scaling old Ops / FPs, etc." so let's give folks an easy way to acquire gear for 8 months before we totally revamp the system.

 

Hopefully, they will provide us details sooner rather than later on the new system. If they wait to provide details until it's up on the PTS 2 months prior to release, we are (likely) screwed because it will be locked in.

 

Dasty

Edited April 16, 2019 by Jdast

[KendraP]

I'm pretty sure its standard that old raids/OPs are obsolete once an expansion hits. Just like with their previous expansions you will have to grind a new set of gear once you are max level without revisiting old OPs content.

 

Ah but this is not how it works here currently. Because they cannot release a new "tier" of content to get gear, they rescale old ops to keep them relevant.

 

I currently assume you will have to grind new gear, which is fine, but nitpicking their phrasing gives me a slight concern.

 

The fact Musco has made a plethora of posts and not answered this simple question is also not encouraging.

 

Much of the little rant is totally irrelevant to 6.0 which is why I didn't include it in my first post

 

I agree with you, there must be a path for PvPers to be able to get gear. That is what I will be looking for and a deciding factor on whether or not I return to the game.

 

Ditto.

 

The good news is that Eric largely acknowledged the problem with the 5.10 / Ossus gearing model last month during a podcast

 

The problem I have with this is, I, among many others, some of whom were PTS testers, were complaining about the gear before it was ever a thing. they had time to fix it, or at least mitigate the furor a bit, but didn't.

 

Now suddenly they're concerned about the "friction?" We saw the same thing after the intial GC/5.0. My spidey sense is detecting a disconcerting pattern.

 

I'm a half-glass full kind of guy, but I disagree that they try to pad numbers in specific types of content to impress management. Management cares about the number of paying players / cartel market sales; i.e., profits. Do you really think Keith goes to upper management with spreadsheets about the number of people playing Ossus? At the end of the day, management cares about one thing and one thing only.

 

Do I think Kanneg goes to upper management with the number of people doing Ossus? No. The number of people spending money on the CM and how much, sure.

 

But how do they decide what direction to take the game to keep subscribers? I would assume the relative numbers of players doing certain things is a factor. I.e. more people are doing ossus > people enjoy ossus > make more stuff like ossus to keep them around. Thus the logical fallacy - actively shoehorning players into new stuff pads the numbers artifically, making this statistic meaningless, if encouraging.

 

Yes, I could be over-analyzing. I'm also a very slow person to forgive when I've spent $15/month on something for almost 4/5ths of a decade and I'm consistently given a virtual screw you because I keep paying.

 

"Oh we hear you! But we know what you find fun better than you do!" That's what I get out of Musco.

 

Personally, I think they were so fixated on 6.0 / Onslaught that they just did 5.10 gearing as a one off, not understanding (or caring about) the problems it created

 

Then frankly, they shouldn't have bothered in the first place. Nothing is better than buggy, half finished stuff they have no intention of supporting.

 

If they wait to provide details until it's up on the PTS 2 months prior to release, we are (likely) screwed because it will be locked in.

 

And this is the root cause of all the problems I have. How can I trust them to listen to feedback when their track record is frankly, atrocious. We see it several times a year:

 

Oh your feedback is so important, we're going to do better!

 

People post feedback

 

Feedback gets ignored or otherwise shunned

 

People start eating at each other from lack of dev input

 

Oh hey guys you're so valued!

 

So frankly, my optimism is almost burnt out. I'm going to wait and see. Musco has to prove himself, not just give meaningless yellow posts.

[Mikeieveli]

 

 

The problem I have with this is, I, among many others, some of whom were PTS testers, were complaining about the gear before it was ever a thing. they had time to fix it, or at least mitigate the furor a bit, but didn't.

 

Now suddenly they're concerned about the "friction?" We saw the same thing after the intial GC/5.0. My spidey sense is detecting a disconcerting pattern.

 

Do I think Kanneg goes to upper management with the number of people doing Ossus? No. The number of people spending money on the CM and how much, sure.

 

But how do they decide what direction to take the game to keep subscribers? I would assume the relative numbers of players doing certain things is a factor. I.e. more people are doing ossus > people enjoy ossus > make more stuff like ossus to keep them around. Thus the logical fallacy - actively shoehorning players into new stuff pads the numbers artifically, making this statistic meaningless, if encouraging.

 

Yes, I could be over-analyzing. I'm also a very slow person to forgive when I've spent $15/month on something for almost 4/5ths of a decade and I'm consistently given a virtual screw you because I keep paying.

 

"Oh we hear you! But we know what you find fun better than you do!" That's what I get out of Musco.

 

And this is the root cause of all the problems I have. How can I trust them to listen to feedback when their track record is frankly, atrocious. We see it several times a year:

 

Oh your feedback is so important, we're going to do better!

 

People post feedback

 

Feedback gets ignored or otherwise shunned

 

People start eating at each other from lack of dev input

 

Oh hey guys you're so valued!

 

So frankly, my optimism is almost burnt out. I'm going to wait and see. Musco has to prove himself, not just give meaningless yellow posts.

 

I hear ya. As a long time subscriber, sometimes even stayed subbed even though I didnt have time to play, that quit and cancelled my sub for 5.0 and part of 4.0, I can say that I have been there. My initial thought though when I read your post about the gear scaling with Osus OPS is that they didnt want to waste limited resources on that content when resources are allocated to 6.0. I can say with absolute certainty that 6.0 has been in development for quite sometime, likely a year +, prior to their announcement of the release date. September is far too close for them to just start developing it after the latest patch releases. Assuming that the case, I would say it would be acceptable to do what they did to improve the game. Changing gear, adding in gear is a lot development time that is easily allocated elsewhere.

 

I quit primarily because of gearing. I will not come back unless they fix the mess that the past expansions were. When Keith took over, I would tell people that he is only going to stop hemorrhaging in this current expansion and we wouldnt see his vision until the next expansion. Some of the things he has done to stop the hemorrhaging have given me faith that he will restore the direction of this game to that of growth in every aspect of the game. I think he will make it better. So far, with limited details, I cant say I have seen anything as of yet to make me think otherwise.

 

For me its simple, 6.0 will be one of two paths, either this game will be dead to me for good or i will be restored with a new hope...

[OlBuzzard]

Just wanted to create smilar topic.

Does 6.0 gear 75 level cap willrequire masterwork & monumental crystals? Or again we gonna have something new?

 

I'd like to find a little more effecient way of getting the crystals .. At the rate I'm going right now ... it's going to be a while ... a REALY long while.

 

Hopefully we can find a way to get the mods we want and install them into the adaptive equipment that we use. Frankly everything I use contains mods. Soooo ... it'w better for me to collect mod parts and install them where I need !

[Batwer]

If it ends up like on Ossus......

[russia]

I have been a long time subscriber, joined the game 1 month shy of the founder title. I love this game. But the gearing and the direction of solo play made me decide to not play this previous expansion for the most part. I am anxious to try out 6.0, but I and I am sure the community as well, would love to hear some details on gearing. How will gearing work in 6.0 specifically? Can we see some details please? Thanks.

 

me not like that with all my characters reset 300 lvl CR (and need to this to do for themselves) this simply mockery of my expense in empty time ... if possible I would have applied to the court :mad: