xordevoreaux Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) Wow really? It's good you have 0 faith in the community. People are decent and they could approve every icon before it is uploaded, there are lots of ways to do this properly. Stop being a snowflake .. Tux is 100% correct. If people suddenly realize -- for however long it may last before it's removed -- that they can upload and display symbols of sexual promiscuity, hate, political vitriol, religious bigotry, and such into a game, they will, and if having our eyes wide open to the strong possibility of such means we're snowflakes to you, so be it. Edited March 28, 2019 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Wulff Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Just my 2 cents but the following 4 posts make the 2 strongest reasons for and against custom icons. Neither side has a perfect answer and sadly it is easier to deny individualism than to run the risks of legal liability. Custom icons would solve all problems. Why isn't there an option to upload a custom one? We don't need a bunch of generic icons. This would be an ideal solution. Tera provides this functionality in a game engine of a similar vintage and as long as they don't decide to add the guild icon/heraldry to everyone's characters as Tera does, there shouldn't be performance implications. Tera is very prescriptive about the image too. It must be a BMP of a precise size which approximates to 12KB. Assuming generously that 20,000 guilds per server make use of this (unlikely) then that's 250MB storage space on the server maximum. Expanding the "report" functionality would also take care of any concerns regarding inappropriate images. I'm assuming there were technical reasons they didn't take this approach. The only way to control content in a game licensed from a third party (Disney), is to not include uploads. What would Disney say if one if its reps just happened to see Youtube footage of: 1) a competitor's content uploaded (Matrix computer symbols, i.e., from competitor Warner Brothers) 2) sexualized icons (and you know what I'm talking about) 3) anything from the FBI's list of hate group symbols or: How EA would fumble the resulting furor if a pro-Christian guild uploads a crucifix symbol and an agnostic (or other) symbol is denied. ...list goes on. Uploads would be inviting a policing nightmare They should NEVER allow custom icons. EVER! It wouldn't take 1-minute of being live before someone would abuse the system and create inappropriate images. While both sides make accurate assessments neither addresses what could be done to allow individualism. Would it be possible to have the system as is be the default "make it and show it" option for a guild flag and for those that want something more custom they have access to a set of primitives (squares circles stars and such) that can be used in limited number (5 or 6 per flag) on their own or to enhance a stock icon? If you register your heraldry and have only used a single default option it goes into use immediately if you used more than one icon or primitive it goes in the trouble ticket queue to be approved by a set of human eyes. This too isn't perfect but it allows for both quick flags and more custom options without needing to add a system to load images that would need to be distributed to each client on the server as well as avoiding religious political trademarked or otherwise unwanted logos. Sure the queue for approval would be long (maybe up to 4 weeks if the cs queue is super busy) and some guilds will need to wait for approval but it allows for individuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xordevoreaux Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) No two guilds on a single server in Everquest 2 can share the exact same heraldry. There are enough layers for enough design options that every guild is guaranteed to have heraldry of a kind, if not exactly what they want because another guild has it. When I developed the heraldry for my guild on EQ2, I could expose to everyone online in the guild at the time exactly what I was fiddling with in the designer, and we sat there and they said yay or nay for almost an hour, but we finally agreed on a main color, main graphic, edge graphic, edge graphic color, etc. Everquest 2 does not allow player content for its guild heraldry system, so the same applies here as does there: broad availability of choice in the system itself via multiple layers of patterns / colors / icons. Edited March 29, 2019 by xordevoreaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCooter Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 I have to agree with the guild vendor request. I'm on at odd hours, due to work etc, and I never can catch enough people on to form a guild outright. I'd like to propose a Guild Vendor, located on fleet next to the guild registrar, that can: Bypass the four player requirement, and go stright to guild creation. Guild Experience to Level the Guild, and get access to the higher level guild heraldries. Dark Projects, and other needed craftables for Guild Flag ships and Bases, to complete expansions, and addons. Conquest Points, to test out Guild Perks, etc. Credits to purchase expansion costs. Preferably larger blocks of credits, as some of that stuff can get expensive, to keep from klicking. I.e, Options for examples 100K 1000K 10000K 1000000K , where K of coarse is 1000. I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting, but...That's my constructive bit, ie. solution, not complaint.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palaemus Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 Tux is 100% correct. If people suddenly realize -- for however long it may last before it's removed -- that they can upload and display symbols of sexual promiscuity, hate, political vitriol, religious bigotry, and such into a game, they will, and if having our eyes wide open to the strong possibility of such means we're snowflakes to you, so be it. It's like saying we won't be using a capitalistic society and economic system because people will scam and steal money, rob banks etc. Nothing in this reality is immune to exploit. People who exploit any kind of system of set rules get sanctioned properly. The solution is NOT building a system in fear of exploit. Proper system with proper management is the solution. Yes, your point of view is 100% wrong. Censorship is never a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Estelindis Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 (edited) It's like saying we won't be using a capitalistic society and economic system because people will scam and steal money, rob banks etc. Nothing in this reality is immune to exploit. People who exploit any kind of system of set rules get sanctioned properly. The solution is NOT building a system in fear of exploit. Proper system with proper management is the solution. Yes, your point of view is 100% wrong. Censorship is never a way. I think it's very rude to tell someone their point of view is 100% wrong. On the point itself, a company deciding not to provide (at their own expense!) a platform for you to express yourself in the precise way you want isn't censorship. Actually, it's their free choice, and arguably people saying Bioware shouldn't use the symbol system are trying to censor the BW artist(s) expressing themselves (yes, I think even a system built to offer many combinations is a work of art in its own way). And if you want to bring up capitalism, their choice looks like capitalism in action: the cost and benefits of building a system with the "proper management" are measured, and for the extra cost it would involve I imagine they don't see enough extra benefit to choose that over the system they're currently building. Edited March 31, 2019 by Estelindis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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