Socialbob Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 The Children of the Emperor, like the First Son are given portions of Vitiate's power. Given the hand knows that the Voice is trapped, and the Childrens are seen to be roaming the galaxy, why didn't were the Children of the Emperor not called in to hunt down Darth Baras? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlameYOL Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Considering the Emperor's Hand are already recruiting a new Emperor's Wrath to handle the situation I'd say he'd want the Children to focus on other matters. Tenebrae is a patient man, he has no need to rush things most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Considering the bigger picture of the Emperor's plans, either his use/need for his Children was over so they're discarded, or he has something else in mind for them. There's also as powerful as Baras is, he's still just an upstart Sith to the Emperor and won't take much to crush when he progresses past annoyance so it's either not worth wasting effort on him at that point. And there's also the cynical explanation of the writers of the class stories didn't talk much with each other so points that could've been cross story didn't get shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) My guess storywise would be that they were needed elsewere and so it was easier to pick Baras's former apprentice to kick his bottom. And, considering the Emperor just lost Scourge at that point, he needed another Wrath anyways to keep the Dark Council and other Dark Lords in check, because i don't think Baras would've moved against the Emperor if Scourge was still around. Maybe he also wanted them to stay hidden at that point. Edited February 7, 2019 by Goreshaga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 (edited) I think the Jedi Knight and Jedi Consular stories happen earlier in the chronology. The Sith Warrior can't become the Wrath until after Scourge defects. Baras probably would not have pulled the stunt of claiming to be the Emperor's Voice if any of the Children were still around to stop hiim. Also, IIRC the Jedi Knight's actions on Voss contribute to the Voice being trapped in another body that the Sith Warrior has to deal with in their own story. By the time the Sith Warrior gets to Belsavis and Voss, the Emperor's Children who were on those planets are gone. If they hadn't been, they probably would have been sent to deal with Darth Ekkage and the Voice. At that point it seems like the only ones left to go after Baras are the Servants and the Wrath. Edited February 7, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Also, IIRC the Jedi Knight's actions on Voss contribute to the Voice being trapped in another body that the Sith Warrior has to deal with in their own story. I'd say that it's the other way around as Sel-Makor is inside the Emperor's body on Voss, while he ends-up sealed away in the JK story. So i think the SW comes to Voss before the JK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) I'd say that it's the other way around as Sel-Makor is inside the Emperor's body on Voss, while he ends-up sealed away in the JK story. So i think the SW comes to Voss before the JK. The Emperor's Voice - there's something weird with all of that. I think the timeline must be a little messed up. It does sound like the SW is there first. I still think overall the Sith Warrior's Wrath career overall has to come after the JC and JK, though, because otherwise Baras wouldn't have pulled what he pulled, and the Children would have been sent to do the tasks that the Wrath does. Also, the only person speaking out against Baras in the Council is Vowrawn, and if the Children were still around, one would have thought they'd have turned up and decreed what the Emperor wanted. But they couldn't because the JC had already taken care of that. Edited February 8, 2019 by IoNonSoEVero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardrossan Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 It's a good question. The arguments to explain it away are also interesting, but raise a point for me about timeline: I never got the sense that the timeline for all eight characters doing things at the same time made any sense. Yes, they do interact in interesting ways, but I think someone would have a tough job actually making a complete timeline of the class stories and where they fall before each other and in which places. And I think some of the dialogue reflects that. Remember when the JK gets woken up from his brainwashing and he asks Orgus how long he's been out? He doesn't get a straight answer. It's intentional, because if he got a straight answer it would be easier to plot out a sequence of events happening before and after in other class stories. Perhaps originally that was the plan, but I think at some point the writers just threw up their hands and decided to make it purposefully ambiguous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 It's a good question. The arguments to explain it away are also interesting, but raise a point for me about timeline: I never got the sense that the timeline for all eight characters doing things at the same time made any sense. Yes, they do interact in interesting ways, but I think someone would have a tough job actually making a complete timeline of the class stories and where they fall before each other and in which places. I almost want to say it was on the forums here, but someone did go through making a timeline of all the class stories according to the class stories and cutscenes. For example in Chapter 1 Republic side, the Jedi Knight's story mentions the fighting ongoing on Ord Mantell and in early cutscenes in the Smuggler and Trooper stories you see the Smuggler's ship flying in during a Trooper cutscene and Corso mentions the Trooper's walker getting taken out. I think in the first Chapter all the class stories are fairly close timewise and it's in Chapter 2 they start widely diverging until Chapter 3 where they start coming close again. I remember the Minister in the Agent's story complaining about Baras, Thanaton and Vowrown's powerplays interfering so it fits for the Inquisitor/Warrior's stories to be wrapping up during the Agent's and the Supreme Commander's transmission places the Trooper's story as just starting during the Agent's. Hopefully someone with a stronger Google-fu than me can track the timeline down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 There are some other crossovers with the class stories, too. Kaliyo has a cameo in Doc's dialogue that is in the JK's chapter 3 story, and at that point, she is still working for Nemro. That must mean that she hasn't gone off with the Agent yet, so the Agent's story is still in its prelude/Chapter 1 when the JK is already almost done. Nemro's also killed off by Skadge, and that's mentioned in Chapter 3 of the JK story and the BH story, so those timelines seem close to each other at that point. Qyzen also contacts Mako close to the end of the JC story, and it appears that she's still with Braden at that point, although I could be remembering wrong. So that would seem that the BH is just starting when the JC is almost finished with their class story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 The Emperor's Voice - there's something weird with all of that. I think the timeline must be a little messed up. It does sound like the SW is there first. I still think overall the Sith Warrior's Wrath career overall has to come after the JC and JK, though, because otherwise Baras wouldn't have pulled what he pulled, and the Children would have been sent to do the tasks that the Wrath does. Also, the only person speaking out against Baras in the Council is Vowrawn, and if the Children were still around, one would have thought they'd have turned up and decreed what the Emperor wanted. But they couldn't because the JC had already taken care of that. I think the SW time as the Wrath happens after the JC's last chapter overall, but before the JK's. To me Baras moved after Scourge ran away with the JK as i don't think he would've moved against Vitiate while Scourge was around. So i'd say that the JK's end of chapter 2 happens before the SW's, but that overall, the SW's chapter 3 happens stlightly before the JK's The JK is on Voss after the SW considering what happens with Sel-Makor in both stories. About Kaliyo IIRC it's mentionned that Nemro is fond of her but not that she's still working for him at that point. And about Mako, that Qyzen knows her and Braden, but i don't think there is any mention of him still being alive. And the BH class story ends before the JC and trooper's as Janarus is not the Chancelor anymore at that point and has already been replaced by Saresh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I think the SW time as the Wrath happens after the JC's last chapter overall, but before the JK's. To me Baras moved after Scourge ran away with the JK as i don't think he would've moved against Vitiate while Scourge was around. So i'd say that the JK's end of chapter 2 happens before the SW's, but that overall, the SW's chapter 3 happens stlightly before the JK's The JK is on Voss after the SW considering what happens with Sel-Makor in both stories. About Kaliyo IIRC it's mentionned that Nemro is fond of her but not that she's still working for him at that point. And about Mako, that Qyzen knows her and Braden, but i don't think there is any mention of him still being alive. And the BH class story ends before the JC and trooper's as Janarus is not the Chancelor anymore at that point and has already been replaced by Saresh But the whole point of Kaliyo being on the JK's ship is that she's being held as a 'hostage' to ensure that Nemro will let Doc go again. I think it's mentioned that she's on his staff. That would mean that she's not gone off with the Agent yet. I think the Voss timeline may be a little messed up because Sel-Makor also appears in both the Imperial and Republic planetary quests. It does seem like the JK might have been there last because Sel-Makor supposedly gets killed once and for all. The SW does get a letter after their story from the Servants about the Emperor's "death," with reassurance that his servants have taken care of his real body, which might mean that the JK is there last, but it seems as though there's some crossover and some parts of the SW story happens later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldVengeance Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 (edited) It is odd that Nem'ro would care about a hostage that doesn't work for him anymore, but it doesn't make sense that Kaliyo appeared in the Jedi Knight storyline before the Agent story. Doc just says Nem'ro has a soft spot for her. He also calls him "her old employer." By virtue of his place in the story, Doc can only ever cure Nem'ro after Balmorra has been liberated. And by virtue of her's, Kaliyo can only join the Agent while it is still under Imperial occupation. Also Nem'ro is dying by the time Doc treats him, and is assassinated shortly thereafter, and on the Agent Story he is still alive by the time they leave the planet. Edited February 8, 2019 by OldVengeance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 But the whole point of Kaliyo being on the JK's ship is that she's being held as a 'hostage' to ensure that Nemro will let Doc go again. I think it's mentioned that she's on his staff. That would mean that she's not gone off with the Agent yet. I think the Voss timeline may be a little messed up because Sel-Makor also appears in both the Imperial and Republic planetary quests. It does seem like the JK might have been there last because Sel-Makor supposedly gets killed once and for all. The SW does get a letter after their story from the Servants about the Emperor's "death," with reassurance that his servants have taken care of his real body, which might mean that the JK is there last, but it seems as though there's some crossover and some parts of the SW story happens later. In that cutscene Doc says (that'll be in french as i have the recording in french) : "L'ancien employeur de mon amie est un chef du Cartel des Hutts appelé Nem'ro", so he clearly states that Nem'ro is Kaliyo's former boss at this point. Dunno about the planetary quests as i usually don't play them. But maybe the JK goes there last. IIRC, the Hand tells the Wrath that the Jedi was fighting the Emperor on Dromund Kaas while the SW was busy with Baras on Korriban. But yeah the timeline between classes is quite hard to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 In that cutscene Doc says (that'll be in french as i have the recording in french) : "L'ancien employeur de mon amie est un chef du Cartel des Hutts appelé Nem'ro", so he clearly states that Nem'ro is Kaliyo's former boss at this point. Dunno about the planetary quests as i usually don't play them. But maybe the JK goes there last. IIRC, the Hand tells the Wrath that the Jedi was fighting the Emperor on Dromund Kaas while the SW was busy with Baras on Korriban. But yeah the timeline between classes is quite hard to make I looked it up, and yeah, he says "old employer" in the English version too, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Nemro doesn't seem like he would be the type to care less about anyone when they were out of his employ. Also seems a bit weird to me that Kailyo would somehow be able to sneak away from the agent to board a Republic hero's ship...I wonder if they didn't think that out. The Voss planetary storyline is a bit weird because it seems like there are conflicts. Like both the Republic and Imperial characters decide the fate of the Gormak chieftain who is Force sensitive. There's Sel-Makor floating around. The Quesh planetary storyline is just as weird because you can decide Broga's fate on both sides. The Imperial one seems to happen first but you can kill Broga in that, but he's alive and well for the Republic story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I looked it up, and yeah, he says "old employer" in the English version too, but that doesn't make any sense to me. Nemro doesn't seem like he would be the type to care less about anyone when they were out of his employ. Also seems a bit weird to me that Kailyo would somehow be able to sneak away from the agent to board a Republic hero's ship...I wonder if they didn't think that out. The Voss planetary storyline is a bit weird because it seems like there are conflicts. Like both the Republic and Imperial characters decide the fate of the Gormak chieftain who is Force sensitive. There's Sel-Makor floating around. The Quesh planetary storyline is just as weird because you can decide Broga's fate on both sides. The Imperial one seems to happen first but you can kill Broga in that, but he's alive and well for the Republic story. Well dunno either, maybe he's really fond of Kaliyo even if she doesn't work for him anymore. He seems to like the BH too as he bets on their wins during the Great Hunt (but the BH is supposed to be Nem'ro's "champion" so that might be why) My guess would be that she told the IA that an old friend called her and needed help, but considering her personnality i don't really understand why she agreed with Doc's plan in the first place TBH. Yeah planetary quests, as they're meant to be played by any character, it doesn't always make sense. That's partly why i don't play them. I've only done the DK ones with the Revanites and the Balmorra ones with Darth Lachriss on my SW to record them as they're somehow part of the bigger picture, as on Balmorra you help Darth Lachriss and the JC takes her down later in their class story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saccharissa Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I almost want to say it was on the forums here, but someone did go through making a timeline of all the class stories according to the class stories and cutscenes. For example in Chapter 1 Republic side, the Jedi Knight's story mentions the fighting ongoing on Ord Mantell and in early cutscenes in the Smuggler and Trooper stories you see the Smuggler's ship flying in during a Trooper cutscene and Corso mentions the Trooper's walker getting taken out. I think in the first Chapter all the class stories are fairly close timewise and it's in Chapter 2 they start widely diverging until Chapter 3 where they start coming close again. I remember the Minister in the Agent's story complaining about Baras, Thanaton and Vowrown's powerplays interfering so it fits for the Inquisitor/Warrior's stories to be wrapping up during the Agent's and the Supreme Commander's transmission places the Trooper's story as just starting during the Agent's. Hopefully someone with a stronger Google-fu than me can track the timeline down. Is this the one you had in mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IoNonSoEVero Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Well dunno either, maybe he's really fond of Kaliyo even if she doesn't work for him anymore. He seems to like the BH too as he bets on their wins during the Great Hunt (but the BH is supposed to be Nem'ro's "champion" so that might be why) My guess would be that she told the IA that an old friend called her and needed help, but considering her personnality i don't really understand why she agreed with Doc's plan in the first place TBH. Dunno, seems like Nemro's pretty vile and self-serving to me. He also uses the BH to do all the dirty work he can get out of them on Hutta and then tries to kill them with a rancor when he feels they've outlived their usefulness to him. So when he bets on the BH in the Great Hunt I don't think it's about anything other than greed. What I hate about the Kaliyo thing is that there's no way for the JK to tell Kaliyo that she dislikes Doc too. If there had been a way for my JK to say, "you know what, I don't care if Doc comes back. Let Nemro feed him to the rancors" or at least told Kaliyo she found him disgusting or didn't have any choice about keeping him on the crew it would have been nice. Yeah planetary quests, as they're meant to be played by any character, it doesn't always make sense. That's partly why i don't play them. I've only done the DK ones with the Revanites and the Balmorra ones with Darth Lachriss on my SW to record them as they're somehow part of the bigger picture, as on Balmorra you help Darth Lachriss and the JC takes her down later in their class story As for the planetary quests, I don't bother with most of the Republic ones, but the Coruscant one is interesting because it introduces the Gree. On the Imperial side I like all of them except for the one on Alderaan because after listening to all those snobby nobles go on and on, my characters (and I) usually want to throw them all off a cliff. But the Revanite one on DK seems really important, and they follow up on it on Nar Shaddaa (you get to take a piece of the Star Forge and meet some other Revan fans). I like the Dread Masters one on Belsavis a lot, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreshaga Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Dunno, seems like Nemro's pretty vile and self-serving to me. He also uses the BH to do all the dirty work he can get out of them on Hutta and then tries to kill them with a rancor when he feels they've outlived their usefulness to him. So when he bets on the BH in the Great Hunt I don't think it's about anything other than greed. Pretty much greed yes, but i guess he realised that our BH was the best of them along the way or he would not bet on them What I hate about the Kaliyo thing is that there's no way for the JK to tell Kaliyo that she dislikes Doc too. If there had been a way for my JK to say, "you know what, I don't care if Doc comes back. Let Nemro feed him to the rancors" or at least told Kaliyo she found him disgusting or didn't have any choice about keeping him on the crew it would have been nice. The worst for me is that she assumed that my JK and Doc were a thing when there was nothing actually and my JK had no way to tell her that she was mistaken. As for the planetary quests, I don't bother with most of the Republic ones, but the Coruscant one is interesting because it introduces the Gree. On the Imperial side I like all of them except for the one on Alderaan because after listening to all those snobby nobles go on and on, my characters (and I) usually want to throw them all off a cliff. But the Revanite one on DK seems really important, and they follow up on it on Nar Shaddaa (you get to take a piece of the Star Forge and meet some other Revan fans). I like the Dread Masters one on Belsavis a lot, too. Pub side i do the Alderaan ones with my JK as on of them ties to her (in my HC) familly while the other have her work with Malcom, so they are important to her on a personal level. And the Revanite ones on my SW because they tie to what happens during SoR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limariko Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Is this the one you had in mind? Not sure if that's the one but it's as info dense as I remember. As far as planetary quests go, I only bother with the ones that award a title or I just really liked the quest like the Czerka one on Tatooine with the technozombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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