Jedi Under Siege Reactions?

[OldVengeance]

I thought it was generally fun. Although I did have a couple major and minor issues.

 

It was too short, although I was expecting it to be, given that there were two separate storylines and Bioware seems to have extremely limited resources for TOR these days.

 

The story was engaging for both sides. The characters were pretty good. Tau Idair in particular was interesting. I especially liked her relationship with Gnost-Dural. I also liked how Nadia and Doc felt more integrated into the story that most other returned companions. But I still felt there was significant room for improvement there. There's kind of a jarring disconnected when an unromanced Consular greets her. Nadia reacts how you might expect, but the Consular just gets straight to business without any kind of "Nadia, it so good to see you." All that gets saved for the Alliance Alert after the story is over, which made it feel a little disconnected. I think it would have been nice if we'd spent more time with her. Or at least enough time to get a few flirts in before the final reunion. I was so excited for my Consular to finally romance Nadia, so that was good. But I think it would have be nice for that to be tied a little more to the events of the Ossus story or maybe to the 6 year absence in their existing relationship.

 

Also Nadia never seems to mention looking for you like Ranos and Hexid said she was.

 

They had mentioned Dark Jaesa was the only one not on Ossus. And that made me worried she was going the one companion that was specifically least involved in the story, and those fears turned out to be true. Although, I suppose there wasn't a huge amount of extra content for everyone else, but still, Dark Jaesa fans get the worst of it.

 

But I guess they had already finished creating an Alliance Alert that was originally meant to take place before the Zildrog incident, and they didn't want to change anything about it.

 

Whoever decided on Dark Jaesa's reunion armor should be fired (or something). It was such a *MINDBOGGLINGLY* idiotic decision, that I can hardly fathom how it happened. How could they make (for me anyway) the most attractive character in the game deliberately look ugly with a weird hood that makes all her hair disappear and gives her the appearance of having a giant forehead. Jaesa fans waited THREE YEARS for this reunion. And I think someone must have known it was a terrible look because someone designed a better outfit for her in the reveal Livestream, but that doesn't appear in the game. What makes it even worse is that this is may well be the last time we'll ever see her. The more I think about it, the more angry it makes me.

 

There was some really great work from Rachel Leigh Cook here as both Jaesas, but ironically it is Dark Jaesa that gets the short end of the stick, not Light Jaesa, as so many people were worried about.

 

I was fine with Malgus return, but I did not appreciate how many people were keen to spoil in that in the forums. I think his situation was an interesting twist, instead of him just being alive like nothing happened. It does make our battle against him on Illum feel like it had consequences. He and his relationship with the other Sith Lords are probably the most interesting idea from the Empire side of the story. But I will say it definitely felt like the Empire side was lacking in characters, given that The Republic gets Nadia and Doc in their main story, but the Sith don't get Jaesa or Khem Val to the same extent.

 

The loyalist or sabotuer idea sounds interesting, though Charles was right when he said that at this stage you're still only doing minor things.

 

Anyway, this does feel like a pretty good tease for a larger story, but that still means they have to deliver that story. I hope the Jedi and Sith get significant further development in the upcoming war, because 5.10 alone doesn't feel like enough.

Edited December 14, 2018 by OldVengeance

[PowerJediRanger]

I did both sides and they were alright and good. On the Imp side I found Major Anri good character that I hope we see more of her.

[Tulcaron]

I'd say the only thing that stuck in my throat a little was Daerunn being all "we know of one member of the jedi council..." while my consular, a literal member of the council, is standing right there, lol. I mean I know she's been cut off from the jedi for years, so she's not exactly what he's looking for in this context of finding the missing jedi, but still, it wasn't her choice to get frozen. She still thinks of herself as a council member. Oh well.

 

OH MY LORD, A THOUSAND TIMES THIS. I've been so upset about this for so long - the game dialogue barely EVER references this, and it's been this way for years. All the way back to them taking away the "of the Jedi Council" title consulars got in beta. For no reason. Then they still gave a council title to the inquisitors!! Who by the way, of course, have cinematic dialogue in this expansion referencing *their* council seat (as always). It's like the devs have forgotten this happened or want to brush it away as a story mistake!! I've never really forgiven them for it. I so badly want the Consulars to take their place on the council. I want that title back, and I want so G****** respect from the NPC cinematics!!!!

[OldVengeance]

Yeah I thought that was annoying. The Jedi Consular should be a leading figure in the Jedi Order especially after so many other council members were killed.

 

I was similarly annoyed that on the Empire side, the game still operates on the assumption that you're not really Imperial anymore. My Sith Warrior was annoyed that he was still called "Commander" more than "My Lord."

 

And then Darth Malgus insisted that "Imperial Troops" in an Imperial Base would obviously not be his to command. Stuff like that is a little weirder given that the nature of the storyline now means they don't have to account for Republic Outlanders in Imperial Bases anymore.

[Asmodesu]

Yeah I thought that was annoying. The Jedi Consular should be a leading figure in the Jedi Order especially after so many other council members were killed.

 

I was similarly annoyed that on the Empire side, the game still operates on the assumption that you're not really Imperial anymore. My Sith Warrior was annoyed that he was still called "Commander" more than "My Lord."

 

And then Darth Malgus insisted that "Imperial Troops" in an Imperial Base would obviously not be his to command. Stuff like that is a little weirder given that the nature of the storyline now means they don't have to account for Republic Outlanders in Imperial Bases anymore.

 

When you recruit jaesa (LS) your character (sw in that instance) even says they're not Imperial anymore. I think this is the point of, yeah we're not part of the original factions anymore.

[OldVengeance]

Yeah, I know. That's part of the problem. I thought the appeal of this whole storyline was about loyalty to our chosen factions? Edited December 14, 2018 by OldVengeance

[Estelindis]

When you recruit jaesa (LS) your character (sw in that instance) even says they're not Imperial anymore. I think this is the point of, yeah we're not part of the original factions anymore.

I thought this was a terrible line to put into our mouths via auto-dialogue. That is absolutely not how my sith warrior sees herself.

[FlameYOL]

I found it to be an enjoyable story, a good prelude to the next expansion. However I do dislike heavily the way they brought back Darth Malgus, mostly because there is no proper explanation as to how he survived. His current role is very fitting and I am interested to see how his character and story develops now, however I am rather displeased with the way they brought him back as it requires a proper explanation.

[Asmodesu]

Yeah, I know. That's part of the problem. I thought the appeal of this whole storyline was about loyalty to our chosen factions?

 

Apparently not :/ I'm not disagreeing with you , not really. Just in my opinion the way they've placed that does make a lot of sense, in a way they aren't just bricking the last few years (rl and in-game) of the Alliance stuff + 5 year carbonite.

On top of allowing us to work our way back into the factions. Loyal, or sabotaging. For the first little update this to me has been fine, it all depends on how they approach it in the next few story bits imho, not the first. I hope they let some characetrs start referring to themselves as Imperial again (choice as they crawl their way back into the fold) but at the moment, we are outsiders so not being Imperial or republic anymore makes sense. For now. So they may change viewpoint at force us all to change back still, just wait

 

I'm still hopeful for the future stuff, I did enjoy this one surprisingly.

[esomxummills]

Frankly, I expected Darth Jadus to make a come back (since we never knew what happened to him after his exile or after he left the Dark Council for the unknown regions), I'm a little disappointed...

 

Warning Spoilers ahead!!!!

 

In the agent story you either kill him or side with him at the end of chapter 1. He later reappears in the carbonate dream of KOTFE as an old enemy come to take you. Other characters you encounter in certain stories you have to play in other classes to encounter or learn their fates!!!! For example in JUS Moff Pyron was mentioned in the endless swamp while talking with Lana but he hasn’t been seen until now!!!!

[Nefla]

Warning Spoilers ahead!!!!

 

In the agent story you either kill him or side with him at the end of chapter 1. He later reappears in the carbonate dream of KOTFE as an old enemy come to take you. Other characters you encounter in certain stories you have to play in other classes to encounter or learn their fates!!!! For example in JUS Moff Pyron was mentioned in the endless swamp while talking with Lana but he hasn’t been seen until now!!!!

 

You can try to fight him but you can't kill Jadus.

[Toraak]

I've done Loyalists for both factions, and a saboteur on one of my republic characters. I've enjoyed the story each time. The only Negative thing I have to say is. Starting on your ship to get the quest, going to Odessan, then Nar Shaddaa, back to Odessan, and finally to Ossus is really annoying. They simply should have cut back on the absolutely useless running around they have us doing just to start the Ossus storyline.

[grania]

I've done Loyalists for both factions, and a saboteur on one of my republic characters. I've enjoyed the story each time. The only Negative thing I have to say is. Starting on your ship to get the quest, going to Odessan, then Nar Shaddaa, back to Odessan, and finally to Ossus is really annoying. They simply should have cut back on the absolutely useless running around they have us doing just to start the Ossus storyline.

 

I suppose that was kind of strange, would be cool to get missions on the holoterminal of the ship again instead!

[CrazyScruffy]

You can try to fight him but you can't kill Jadus.

 

You are correct. Jadus went to the unknown regions and we haven't heard a peep from him since. Even the Emperor recognized that he was second in power only to himself. Really wished they brought Jadus back instead of Malgus. Was never a big fan of his but that's just me. (also the forums didn't return the return of Malgus for me. I know better then to have chat or be on the forums during new content. What ruined it was the anniversary gift, ruined it right there.)

[LordVitalus]

Jadus as Emperor, Malgus as Wrath,... that's the Empire where I want a Council seat.

 

As this game is not canon anymore, I hope we'll be able to destroy the Republic and the Jedi Order for good.

[Venn_Dras]

I was expecting to see Scourge return in this one. The devs mentioned him along with Jaesa in a previous stream, so it was disappointing that he's still missing. Edited December 15, 2018 by Venn_Dras

[Ylliarus]

I loved the story, to me it was a high sigh of relief that we finally are turning our backs on the whole Zakuul/Eternal Alliance story and setting, that we are finally returning to the story that mattered: Empire vs Republic, Jedi vs Sith.

 

The return of Malgus really didn't even surprise me, I have expected it would happen for a long time. So when I saw him pop up I just smiled and said to myself "I knew it". Besides, the Jedi Under Siege wallpaper is rather an obvious clue if you look at the hooded figure in the middle.

 

Personally I don't mind Malgus' return, I would have preferred if dead actually meant dead in this game for once, but as long as he is this half-machine on a leash type of character I am content. Because if Malgus suddenly became Emperor by killing Acina/Vowrawn, then that would change my attitude towards his return drastically. You can't betray the Empire and then expect everyone to love you if you make a second powerplay, that would make the situation feel very forced and unrealistic to me. If he stays this Empire's/Emperor's/Empress' Wrath type of character then I have no problems about his return.

 

I am just waiting for the moment when the Alliance can finally be merged with either the Republic and Empire and we can return to our former positions or something similar to our former positions. Technically it could be very easy for Sith characters, because we simply could have our characters enter a political marriage with either Acina or Vowrawn. I guess an Imperial Agent might make sense although it becomes a tad stretchy, but a Bounty Hunter would be problematic. The Republic and Jedi shouldn't be too difficult to do, because Jedi Knight can easily resume being the Jedi Battlemaster and sit on the new Jedi Council while the Jedi Consular can resume being Bar'senthor and also sit on the Council. Trooper could become the new Supreme Commander of the Republic while the Smuggler, well, I am sure we can figure something out for the Smuggler

[Sarova]

Jadus as Emperor, Malgus as Wrath,... that's the Empire where I want a Council seat

I'm also in - save me my Council seat

 

--

I completed the republic version of 5.10 today and I am very confused

how is it that in the Imperial version, Gnost Dural can be killed or taken prisoner but in the republic version he is severely injured, rescued and treated by the republic/Jedi? How are both versions allowed to happen? Surely if he's captured by the Sith/Empire in their version the same should be true during the Jedi/Repuiblic version? How can they have a story where there are different outcomes for Gnost Dural? I also think something similar must be true for Darth Malora. It's all very confusing

 

 

Other than that condusing story issue, Doc's return was much better than most recent romance returns that I've done. His new outfit was awful though - first opportunity, in the bin it went

Edited December 15, 2018 by Sarova

[Jesseriah]

All in all it was fine for me.

 

But two things are a NO-GO and nearly completely destroyed half of my enjoyement:

 

1) WHY IN GODS SAKE IS THERE ALWAYS A NEED OF BRINGING DEAD CHARACTERS BACK?! Damn it Bioware, why do you have to listen to these whiners about Malgus? HE IS DEAD!!! Why cant you keep him dead ffs?! Im so tired of these always returning characters.

 

2) Why do we still have to be called "Commander of the Alliance"? I mean, srsly. Im so done with that zakuul-crap. I want to go back to the republic/empire and be called "Jedi-Master" again, or being on the Council again etc. But please, please stop this alliance-crap.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Jesseriah

[Ollmich]

I realized that I need to share my thoughts somehow, somewhere, with someone.

 

***

 

About choices

 

You could call the update “Writers under siege”. Both storylines are full of compromises and half measures, and still lack flexibility.

 

Even if your character likes being a leader of the Alliance and doesn’t want to hug imps or pubs, he’s still forced to pronounce scripted phrases like “It’s time for me to go back to the Republic” and can’t even show that he understands the necessity of this choice but it doesn’t make him happy.

 

Maybe things are better if your character is eager to return to their original faction? Yeah, he can state it a few times but NPCs keep reminding him that he’s a Commander and leads a separate faction.

 

And if your character wants to switch sides, guess what… he’s not trusted yet and has to do minor damage while fighting the faction he’d prefer to fight for.

 

Looks like it was written with certain protagonist in mind, and it’s not about the classes, it’s about attitude: “It’s good to be a leader of semi-independent faction and support another faction I like!” If your character feels differently you have no other choice but to headcanon things. It’s understandable: after so many years of continuing story characters have evolved so much and their background have become so complex that it’s just impossible to make them all fit into any new piece of story. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. And yet… I felt so sorry for my Consular who had to say things he’d never say.

 

***

 

About storylines

 

Republic storyline evolves around the theme which has been already explored in SWTOR (see RotHC) but I still liked it more than Imperial one. It’s more coherent: the protagonist was asked to help the Jedi on Ossus, and that’s exactly what he was doing from the beginning until the very end (or pretended doing it). Returning companions are integrated into the story far better than Elara and Quinn on Iokath, and remind of KotFE chapters which were exemplary in this regard. Lastly, it gives us a character who represents contradictory nature of the Jedi ideals, and dynamics between her and “old man” is very curious and touching.

 

Sadly, Imperial story seems to be very clunky compared to Republic one. Pyron asks us to help soldiers under insane Dark Council member’s command, and we end up running around the planet looking for missing scouts and mysterious drops and then suddenly storm the Jedi Library with a dude returned from the dead. Huh?

 

Obviously, when you need to fulfill a vital mission you choose a woman who’s not exactly sane and can’t concentrate on anything but her own goals and researches. Obviously, when you need to rescue a squad who’s suffering because of her decisions the best choice is a leader of a third faction. Obviously, when a mission is on the verge of fail, you try to save a day sending there your personal enforcer (pity his box lacks a gift ribbon). Everything seems logical so far… wait a minute… why not sending him here instead of insane girl to make sure that vicious “let’s eliminate the Jedi and steal their food” plan will be successful from the beginning?

 

My favourite part is “dead” Malora finding Commander and Major to inform them what she’s up to. Are we her best friends or what? I don’t see any other reason for this awkward reunion but to explain her presence in the library in Republic storyline.

 

So, you want to resurrect a big bad from the early days of the game. You want him to play a vital role in this little story. You want to please “For the Empire!” type of players allowing them to storm brutally a Jedi hideout having this big bad at their side. Of course his return should be a surprise, he needs some sort of decoy, and the planet has to be filled with different enemy mobs – here comes Malora with her bugs. And of course the protagonist needs a reason to come to Ossus – here comes Pyron worried about his soldiers (I’m still giggling trying to imagine a DS SI Empress forced to run around the planet looking for missing scouts).

 

But, you know, when you can see the seams and stitches which desperately try to make the story whole, it’s not a good story.

 

***

 

About Malgus

 

*sigh*

No one dies in Star Wars only once, right? He’s in good company: Palpatine, Maul, Vitiate, Revan, Ysanne Isard, the whole army of Force ghosts and poor characters who died twice in different continuities. At this point it’s a Star Wars tradition but I’d prefer it has never been established. Resurrection of a dead character is a cheap move, the worst type of fan service ever and it rarely pays off unless it's a feature of this particular character or the story which was thought off at the point of their creation. Period.

 

We have a few examples in SWTOR. Vitiate was established as a dying-and-rising god from the beginning, and everything happened to him later made sense. Kephess is a funny meme. And Revan… I love this game but what it and its media have done to Revan was horrible and destroyed his character completely.

 

Now Malgus is in danger of taking Revan’s path. I hope it won’t happen.

 

***

 

As a conclusion.

 

Cons:

• Malgus.
  
• Lack of flexibility despite all the efforts.
  
• Imperial storyline is clunky and rugged.
  
• Very few mentions of Ossus lore.
  
• I find Malora not worth that much attention. There’s nothing interesting about her, she’s just generic crazy Sith. Her modulated voice and the way she speaks are extremely irritating.
  
• A moment when Consular meets Nadia on Ossus and has nothing else to say but “Oh, you guys are leaving, right?”
  
• Nadia and Jaesa don’t recognize Lana in their Alerts. That’s just weird. There was a cutscene in the beginning of SoR where the whole player character’s crew is heading to Rishi. Why does the game presume that PC was gallivanting around Rishi and Yavin IV alone while his crew was dying of boredom on their ship? Why risking including such questionable lines which don’t even add much to the dialogues?
  
• A mention of planets introduced in new canon. That’s… personal.
  

 

Pros:

• I’m very happy to see Ossus added to the game. The planet is awesome, especially the Library.
  
• Republic storyline is very solid.
  
• Nadia and Doc fit the story much better than Elara and Quinn on Iokath.
  
• Tau and Anri are both charismatic, memorable and beautifully voiced characters.
  
• I love the Jedi Scholar type Gnost-Dural represents.
  
• Daeruun and Anri acknowledge player’s choice on Iokath.
  
• Enjoying sunset with romanced Lana.
  
• Lots of mails showing what different characters think about recent events.
  
• A quote from The Phantom Menace. Nice touch.
  

Edited December 16, 2018 by Ollmich

[Ollmich]

It did feel a bit weird though that the consular didn't react at all to Nadia being there - the consular was written as so laser-focused on the mission that she didn't even have a chance to be surprised or happy or anything else on being reunited with her old padawan.

Yeah, it was weird. She was so happy to see JC, and he couldn’t say anything better than “So you guys are evacuating, right?” And it was so easy to make it look a little more natural and less rude without adding extra conversation wheels and breaking default dialogue.

 

Nadia: I sensed you presence something something!

JC: Nadia! *smiles*

Doc: Friend of yours?

Nadia: It’s my old master! He’s gonna save the day!

JC: So you guys are evacuating, right?

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Ollmich

[grania]

All in all it was fine for me.

 

But two things are a NO-GO and nearly completely destroyed half of my enjoyement:

 

1) WHY IN GODS SAKE IS THERE ALWAYS A NEED OF BRINGING DEAD CHARACTERS BACK?! Damn it Bioware, why do you have to listen to these whiners about Malgus? HE IS DEAD!!! Why cant you keep him dead ffs?! Im so tired of these always returning characters.

 

Yeah, for one thing it made me unsure of how to treat him during the story. I'm ecstatic about getting back to the empire, but I have to work with this guy..? Plus now apparently Malgus is referred to as the wrath of the empire so he stole my title.

 

I hope this is leading up to something satisfying, obviously Malgus is in a bad situation with Acina so I'm feeling pretty optimistic about the future of the story.

[OldVengeance]

Yeah, it was weird. She was so happy to see JC, and he couldn’t say anything better than “So you guys are evacuating, right?” And it was so easy to make it look a little more natural and less rude without adding extra conversation wheels and breaking default dialogue.

 

Nadia: I sensed you presence something something!

JC: Nadia! *smiles*

Doc: Friend of yours?

Nadia: It’s my old master! He’s gonna save the day!

JC: So you guys are evacuating, right?

 

 

Yeah that was really frustrating. Turns out only romanced Consulars get to say anything about being happy to see Nadia in that scene. Anyone else only gets to be happy to see her after that whole Ossus affair is finished.

 

It's also true that it didn't make sense that Nadia and Jaesa don't recognize Lana Beniko. Even if they didn't know them well, they should know who they are. And in my case, Jaesa and Nadia were two of them people I specifically brought with me for the Forged Alliance/Shadow of Revan storyline.

 

It's not like this was always a problem. Theron's reaction to Kaliyo was on point, for example. I guess best possible explanation is that they knew they had met them before but after 6 years didn't remember them well. But you'd think it would be hard to forget fighting Revan or Yavin or the catastrophe on Ziost.

Edited December 16, 2018 by OldVengeance

[MSpectre]

Very underwhelming, as to be expected from EAware.

 

Too short, too shallow.

 

Only subbed for DS Jaesa.

 

I plan to do the new dailies once or twice and then quit.

 

See you all sometime in 2020, if that.

[Collec]

Jedi Under Siege as 5.10 is cool...I love Ossus and it's dailies. It is also great to see so many QQ about new gear....truly lol to see people ***** and whine about it in game chat and on forums. Only time I really cared about gear was at start of game and 1st time they introduced new gear. After that it was just on and off with this game. To all those who are so gung-ho on BIS gear...keep QQ..it makes my day. And after 3-6 months when BW again raises gear,same *****es gonna QQ again. BIS gear is the last thing on my mind and it was funny when people QQ and raged on 5.0...and it's funny now.

 

But one thing I HATE about Jedi Under Siege...like really hate and dislike.....IS WHY THE **** DID YOU BRING BACK MALGUS !!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!! This is copy+ paste move of bringing back Darth Maul in Clone Wars and I hated it there too. Both cool characters,but if you didn't know how to use them in first place,then just leave them dead. I know you are not the ones responsible for Maul,but copy+paste how both" died" and then just came back.

Just reminds me, how much you milked Revan... STOP IT !!!

 

You had cool storyline with Satele and her sensing Theron dying,but then all you/we get is one mail from her...like miss me BW with that. You could have old companions become big players,but no. Let's bring back Malgus.