Make Mirror classes actual mirrors

[Barrechor]

So you have stated that they are not mirrors, and then you have pointed out that the smugs ability is on a longer cd......then you go on to say how the diff in CD makes up for the abilities. Are you just looking for stuff to cry about?

 

Most PvPers would take a shorter CD anyday for a move that does a similar effect.

 

True mirrors would homogenize the game. I like the diversity and I hope they keep it.

 

Edit: While true mirrors would make balancing the game far less complicated, I dont want to be a IA/Smuggler...i just want to be an IA.

 

I'll tell you what then, why dont they just switch these unbalances around so you get the 90 second CD and we get the 60 second one, seeing as you like diversity you shouldnt have a problem with it......

 

So transparent.

[Barrechor]

I only have one thing to say on this. Boring. I won't ever take away diversity for the sake of a little balance. Variety is more enjoyable.

 

Becaue a little balance would take away your advantage.

 

Knobhead

[CommandoPower]

this would be such a fun game if they would fix all there **** ups

 

You expect them to deliver this game flawlessly without bugs and you cannot even type a proper sentence and use the correct words. It's difficult and **** ups happen in the most menial jobs by even committed employee's. Of course **** ups are going to happen on a project of this scale.

 

Take how complicated this game is and multiply that idea by 10. Now multiply THAT by 10. Your getting warmer.

 

 

That being said, yes, the issues need to be fixed and they are going to be addressing them. The flash grenade already got fixed, something like the Sorc's project will take a bit more time once they decide on it one way or another. Turrets in Alderran? Yeah they should be fixed fairly quickly but I have no idea how complex the coding of it is. I could assume things but that would just make an *** out of U and ME.

 

I know everyone is concerned with Illum and the patch right now, but you have to look at the bigger picture. The reason Illum is such a problem right now is because of the number of imperials greatly outnumbering the number of republic. That issue has a root, and the root is the favoritism shown to the empire.

 

Dont let this issue fall to the wayside as it is at the root of most of the PvP problems that arent directly related to over all class balance.

 

I hate to burst your bubble but 90% of the population imbalance is simply due to Imperials and the dark side in MMORPG's in general seeming cooler to the kiddies (and some of the grown up adult kiddies). Once the population imbalances then you get the lamer crowd that auto-rolls to the zerg side for easy wins.

 

Right now the faction imbalances are not big enough to make very many if anyone switch. It's the population and coolness factor. Just like it has been with nearly every dark side faction in a 2 faction good/evil game.

[Kellindell]

Addressing an issue and fixing it are two different things.

 

I dont care if it takes them a long time to fix it. But the fact that they havent addressed it, or admitted that it existed or apologized for the problem is inexcusable.

 

 

Also I hate to burst your bubble, but that isnt true. This is something that didnt start until WoW. And the reason it started is because of the rampant horde favoritism that lasted up until recently when they finally decided to give alliance some decent racials, tone down some of the horde racials, and fix that games "invisible" buffs like the dismount tower in AV.

 

When all those things happened skilled PvPers started going alliance side, and good fights started to happen. But until WoW finally started fixing that stuff the game was unplayable from a PvP standpoint on alot of servers, unless you ran in premades and all you did or cared about was battlegrounds.

 

The reason this is such a big deal is because we see it happening again. If developers stopped favoring the side that happened to be evil this wouldnt be an issue.

 

When I was playing RIFT people complained that the guardians were the lopsided faction, dominating and what not. Why? Alot of people speculated it was because of armor look and race choice since both factions were essentially exactly the same. On my server guardians were extremely dominant. And maybe other servers had a different experience, I dont know. But the fact is, it was completely and blatantly so lopsided in one direction all across the board.

 

Have you not noticed that almost every complaint is about the empire? Think about the topics

 

-My warzone has always has 5 sorcs

-Premades of 8 sorcs are ruining the game..

 

How come we never hear sage in place of sorc?

 

Why are the posts "A guide to tracer missile spam" and not "A guide to grav round/tracer missile spam?"

 

Why arent people from at least one server talking about how on that server republic is farming the sith?

 

The answer to that is my post. My post explains that, all of the advantages led to one faction causing all those problems because people dont want to knowingly hamstring themselves, so when it became evident in beta that sith got advantages and that alot of the PvPers would be rolling sith, the result is the current state of the PvP forums.

 

And sadly, its not just pvp or pvp servers, and I think that fact speaks loudly about the Sith favoritism from the developers, but this is the pvp forum and I wont get to much into that as to not detract from the current topics.

 

 

You expect them to deliver this game flawlessly without bugs and you cannot even type a proper sentence and use the correct words. It's difficult and **** ups happen in the most menial jobs by even committed employee's. Of course **** ups are going to happen on a project of this scale.

 

Take how complicated this game is and multiply that idea by 10. Now multiply THAT by 10. Your getting warmer.

 

 

That being said, yes, the issues need to be fixed and they are going to be addressing them. The flash grenade already got fixed, something like the Sorc's project will take a bit more time once they decide on it one way or another. Turrets in Alderran? Yeah they should be fixed fairly quickly but I have no idea how complex the coding of it is. I could assume things but that would just make an *** out of U and ME.

 

 

 

I hate to burst your bubble but 90% of the population imbalance is simply due to Imperials and the dark side in MMORPG's in general seeming cooler to the kiddies (and some of the grown up adult kiddies). Once the population imbalances then you get the lamer crowd that auto-rolls to the zerg side for easy wins.

 

Right now the faction imbalances are not big enough to make very many if anyone switch. It's the population and coolness factor. Just like it has been with nearly every dark side faction in a 2 faction good/evil game.

[Kellindell]

Someone just reminded me that bioware was talking about adding more WZ for same faction.

 

Is it just me or is that pretty much admitting that they realize sith is dominant, and they are just going to leave it that way.

 

This seems like a band aid fix to population imbalance instead of just actually trying to fix it, or entice people to play republic with some sort of feature.

[Kellindell]

Highly, Highly doubt a single BW employe plays as a republic mate! The game is basically designed for the empire side.

 

Quote from another thread, thought it had alot of bearing here.

[laiboch]

Bioware needs to allow Faction Switching. So that players that have leveled up on either side can do a quest line allowing them to change faction PROVIDED there is a discrepancy in numbers.

 

It wont solve the differences in abilities caused by animation, but it would at least help with population imbalance.

 

As far as abilities.. They should be exactly the same in damage cast time etc. As classes are mirrors they need to keep this balance or you screw one faction or the other. Repub's and Imperials should be exactly the same in DPS and abilities.

Edited January 19, 2012 by laiboch

[Zunayson]

Abilities with 'travel times' do their damage at server side up front, even if it doesnt register on the player UI.

 

Thats why sometimes your standing there trying to cast with plenty of health, getting 'cannot activate while dead' messages, and then half a second later you explode.

 

no, that's because you're getting the damage instantly, and it's being registered, but the animation of you dying doesn't happen until the animation of the attack. e.i. Jedi Knight's Slash requires the spinning of a lightsaber and then the actual hit. The target takes damage mid-spin, but doesn't fall until after the swing hits him.

[TopDogJW]

Someone just reminded me that bioware was talking about adding more WZ for same faction.

 

Is it just me or is that pretty much admitting that they realize sith is dominant, and they are just going to leave it that way.

 

This seems like a band aid fix to population imbalance instead of just actually trying to fix it, or entice people to play republic with some sort of feature.

 

I'm of the opinion that same faction warzones are the wrong way to go entirely. If you give the more dominate faction on a server (whether Republic, or Imperial) a way to farm each other in PvP, you widen the gap even further in terms of geared players on that side. If they never have to wait in a queue because of faction inbalance, you give the population of the dominate faction absolutely no reason to ever think about switching sides.

 

I realize you might have the same opinion too (I haven't read enough of your posts to know one way or another), I just wanted to get in my two cents.

[Renim]

You expect them to deliver this game flawlessly without bugs and you cannot even type a proper sentence and use the correct words. It's difficult and **** ups happen in the most menial jobs by even committed employee's. Of course **** ups are going to happen on a project of this scale.

 

Take how complicated this game is and multiply that idea by 10. Now multiply THAT by 10. Your getting warmer.

 

 

That being said, yes, the issues need to be fixed and they are going to be addressing them. The flash grenade already got fixed, something like the Sorc's project will take a bit more time once they decide on it one way or another. Turrets in Alderran? Yeah they should be fixed fairly quickly but I have no idea how complex the coding of it is. I could assume things but that would just make an *** out of U and ME.

 

 

 

I hate to burst your bubble but 90% of the population imbalance is simply due to Imperials and the dark side in MMORPG's in general seeming cooler to the kiddies (and some of the grown up adult kiddies). Once the population imbalances then you get the lamer crowd that auto-rolls to the zerg side for easy wins.

 

Right now the faction imbalances are not big enough to make very many if anyone switch. It's the population and coolness factor. Just like it has been with nearly every dark side faction in a 2 faction good/evil game.

 

 

I can understand a few bugs.

 

But the fact that all of these "bugs" benefit the imperials really makes me raise an eyebrow.

 

 

 

 

 

Since they haven't even addressed anything, I've cancelled my account. I'm fed up that they added new content but didn't fix anything regarding mirror balance (which should be FIRST).

[Kellindell]

No Valor Rollback? Goodbye Republic PvP community. Glad I canceled my subscription, my suspicions have been confirmed - Bioware outright favors Empire.

 

Well with the fact that their was no Valor rollback from all the valor Sith farmed today, for alot of people its confirmed that bioware favors sith.

 

I genuinely believe now they play Sith, and they and their buddies were part of that farming today.

 

Add to that the fact that they are adding more same faction Warzones and it means the entire republic side doesnt even need to exist.

 

The only reason for people to keep the republic population up was to keep warzones queing. Now republic offers nothing to the game at all.

 

I bet the next version of Illum is a FFA like tatooine so sith can battle it out with each other.

[Darroth]

I noticed the travel time on the counselor equivalent of shock in wz's today. I was able to force cloak them before they hit me which i wouldn't of been able to do with shock. However i prefer the counselor animation and i wouldn't want them to change something for balance sake that would ruin the feel of it to play. I think it would be better if they tried to make the two classes slightly more different rather than exactly the same.

[Kellindell]

I noticed the travel time on the counselor equivalent of shock in wz's today. I was able to force cloak them before they hit me which i wouldn't of been able to do with shock. However i prefer the counselor animation and i wouldn't want them to change something for balance sake that would ruin the feel of it to play. I think it would be better if they tried to make the two classes slightly more different rather than exactly the same.

 

That would require an entire reworking of the game and would cause more problems then it would fix, if it fixed any.

 

As ive pointed out, the intention was for them to be the same, or what we were sold was that they were the same, and mysteriously one faction has a bunch of advantages.

 

What you are missing is, the graphic can stay the same so it still looks cool and unique to consular, but the damage should apply instantly the way that shock does.

 

OR and heaven forbid, shock should become a ball of lighting that has to travel to the target the same way project does.

[Bludjinni]

I want to say 2 things.

 

Electrocute IS affected by resolve, I can confirm, I just tore my hair out because of it in Huttball.

 

And Unload DOES suffer knockback and loss of ticks. Just now, again, I was being thoroughly annoyed tanking one. I don't know if there's talents to stop this, but for now I am being knockbacked and I am losing ticks clear as day.

 

Furthermore I honestly think a lot is unnecessary QQ. Who says both have to be equal mirrors? Yes, I play imperial. Would I have cared had I been at a "disadvantage" here? No, not at all. Why? Because I play Imperial for its flavour and not for its supposed advantages.

 

Secondly, some people are saying the consular's shock does a bit more damage than the sith's. Is this actually true? I don't know. Do you hear me cry? No. Does it actually matter? No, because just like, in the end whether or not the shock has a travel time will NOT make a difference for a skilled player, and I have witnessed so time and again vs skilled consulars, and, vs horrible inquisitors.

 

I do agree on the Death of Above thing, the reps' got shafted there. But I cannot comment on Heat myself, as I, interestingly enough, have heard the Trooper's ammo is much better than Heat and is a LOT less restricting.

 

It's being nitpicky, is what it is. I do so believe the devs have MORE than enough other issues to fix than the, honestly, minuscule travel time on a consular's rock.

 

 

TBH I think it's fine the classes are not exact mirrors. More balance? Sure, always welcome, but in its own time. Right now I'd just like to not get stuck on a boss and its bugs rather than worry over whether or not the dev will 'fix' these 'imbalances'.

 

My apologies if I sound harsh, that is unintended, but upon rereading my post I realize I might have. I respect your opinions, of course.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Bludjinni

[Kellindell]

Of course you think its fine, you are not at the disadvantage.

 

Its easy to say you dont care or that you wouldnt care if you had all of these disadvantages.

 

I have to hope people like you are trolling, because I weep for the future of this world if it contains people this ignorant, this selfish or both.

[EzoEo]

Testing between the two I found that Force Leap only does damage when the animation end while Force Charge does damage soon as the animation starts.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned before.

[Spiggeh]

Testing between the two I found that Force Leap only does damage when the animation end while Force Charge does damage soon as the animation starts.

 

Not sure if it has been mentioned before.

 

I had noticed that also, I thought I was going mad

[krissizcoming]

ive given this game a good 1 month, if this does not change by march, i will defenetly end my subscription. i think its fair that although a game deserves a chance to be able to make itself better, 3 months is more than enough time for a very capable company such as bioware to bring itself up. please really take this into good consideration... because i have been really patient and so have the other players. im sure that if things don't change, only fanboys and diehards are the only people that will play this game after march!

[Kellindell]

ive given this game a good 1 month, if this does not change by march, i will defenetly end my subscription. i think its fair that although a game deserves a chance to be able to make itself better, 3 months is more than enough time for a very capable company such as bioware to bring itself up. please really take this into good consideration... because i have been really patient and so have the other players. im sure that if things don't change, only fanboys and diehards are the only people that will play this game after march!

 

I dont even care if it changes by march, id just like to hear a dev talk about it by march.

 

But now with the whole illum fiasco we have a very small chance of that happening, even though the illum fiasco very much looks like Sith favoritism again.

[Kellindell]

I had noticed that also, I thought I was going mad

 

Any video or screenshot proof I can post?

[Kellindell]

Still no word on any of this, and now it seems to be getting over shadowed by the Illum stuff, I just wish people would see the relationship between this stuff and that problem.

[kckkryptonite]

Any update from the devs yet?

[KazeRonin]

Looks like there trying some fixes for this on the PTR, so they where listening.

[Jedikillar]

animations and an ability here and there arent exactly the same on mirrors. This makes pvp unbalanced. If you happen to play the class that it favors then good for you dont worry about it. If you dont, just deal with the disadvantages and beat the enemy by skill instead of by class. Don't go with fotm just cause the devs did. I actually prefer the underpowered classes/factions in mmos for pvp because it means that they are going to take more skill. People are shocked when they actually lose to a class they considered "inferior".

[Super-Nova]

fix yo **** bioware