DPS merc - optimal stats needed for PVP?

[Lhancelot]

What is the accepted norm regarding how much accuracy, crit, alacrity, power, mastery I should aim for on my dps merc for PVP?

[Cylestat]

What is the accepted norm regarding how much accuracy, crit, alacrity, power, mastery I should aim for on my dps merc for PVP?

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622

 

See above link to comprehensive list.

[Cylestat]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=918622

 

See above link to comprehensive list.

 

Given this a PVE list I would drop the accuracy though.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Cylestat

[Lhancelot]

Given this a PVE list I would drop the accuracy though.

 

I know accuracy is useless for sages/sorcs in PVP, but I was under the assumption accuracy was good for mercs to bypass defensive bonuses that some classes can have.

 

That's why I figured to ask this question directed for PVP because I don't think PVE stat baselines are always 100% transferable to PVP.

 

Also, your sig is broken Cylestat, or is that purposeful?

Edited August 21, 2018 by Lhancelot

[Cylestat]

I know accuracy is useless for sages/sorcs in PVP, but I was under the assumption accuracy was good for mercs to bypass defensive bonuses that some classes can have.

 

That's why I figured to ask this question directed for PVP because I don't think PVE stat baselines are always 100% transferable to PVP.

 

Also, your sig is broken Cylestat, or is that purposeful?

 

Thanks - I fixed it. You are right though about accuracy - don't go 110%, go 105% max.

[Hoppinswtor]

This laughably archaic misconception about accuracy in PvP should end. This isn't 2013, where you had to sacrifice a ton of burst to get to the accuracy cap.

 

Specs that have significant amounts of white damage (Marksman, Virulence, Arsenal, Carnage, etc.) should be running at least 107 percent accuracy, and ideally 110 percent accuracy. Why? Several reasons.

 

(1) The amount of augments, enhancements, etc. required to reach 700ish accuracy is far less than ever before, meaning you are sacrificing fairly little to reach this mark given the diminishing returns of other stats.

(2) Some classes have 10 percent dodge, like sorc and sin.

(3) This is the real kicker: Tanks have a spammable debuff that reduces accuracy by 5 percent for 45 seconds...and most of the classes in the game have at least 5 percent dodge; if you have that debuff on you, you're gonna miss 5 percent of the time even at 105 percent accuracy.

(4) White damage is so integral to certain rotations that it would be far more devastating to miss a white attack than see a couple percent taken off the attacks that do hit. Imagine missing a Weakning Blast or a Priming Shot (and its valuable debuff).

(5) Many classes now have utilities that increase their defense chance/dodge chance passively, and there are a ton of DCDS in this game that increase defense chance astronomically. Usually you swap off them in this case, but sometimes you might be forced to tunnel through them. It's nice to land a few extra hits in those situations.

 

I run 109.93 percent accuracy on all DPS specs except Concealment, Lightning, and Madness, PvP or PvE. Yes, even AP and Pyro, where railshot is an important component to heat management/burst. Missing sucks. If your swaps are clean, the 2-3 percent less damage you will be doing won't matter; missing an Ambush or 5-stack Rail Shot, however, will screw you over hard.

Edited August 21, 2018 by Hoppinswtor

[Wimbleton]

If you upgrade those 5 augs to 240 you get 109.99%, how’s that for your OCD???

[Hoppinswtor]

If you upgrade those 5 augs to 240 you get 109.99%, how’s that for your OCD???

 

bioware = trolls

[Lhancelot]

This laughably archaic misconception about accuracy in PvP should end. This isn't 2013, where you had to sacrifice a ton of burst to get to the accuracy cap.

 

Specs that have significant amounts of white damage (Marksman, Virulence, Arsenal, Carnage, etc.) should be running at least 107 percent accuracy, and ideally 110 percent accuracy. Why? Several reasons.

 

(1) The amount of augments, enhancements, etc. required to reach 700ish accuracy is far less than ever before, meaning you are sacrificing fairly little to reach this mark given the diminishing returns of other stats.

(2) Some classes have 10 percent dodge, like sorc and sin.

(3) This is the real kicker: Tanks have a spammable debuff that reduces accuracy by 5 percent for 45 seconds...and most of the classes in the game have at least 5 percent dodge; if you have that debuff on you, you're gonna miss 5 percent of the time even at 105 percent accuracy.

(4) White damage is so integral to certain rotations that it would be far more devastating to miss a white attack than see a couple percent taken off the attacks that do hit. Imagine missing a Weakning Blast or a Priming Shot (and its valuable debuff).

(5) Many classes now have utilities that increase their defense chance/dodge chance passively, and there are a ton of DCDS in this game that increase defense chance astronomically. Usually you swap off them in this case, but sometimes you might be forced to tunnel through them. It's nice to land a few extra hits in those situations.

 

I run 109.93 percent accuracy on all DPS specs except Concealment, Lightning, and Madness, PvP or PvE. Yes, even AP and Pyro, where railshot is an important component to heat management/burst. Missing sucks. If your swaps are clean, the 2-3 percent less damage you will be doing won't matter; missing an Ambush or 5-stack Rail Shot, however, will screw you over hard.

 

Hey Hoppin, what do you run as far as crit, mastery, alacrity and power? Have you ever experimented much with the stats just for the fun of it? When does crit end up not worth it due to diminishing returns? Used to be power had no DR point, and so people used to stack power back in 3.0 iirc. Is power the same now still?

[TrixxieTriss]

Ive a question about accuracy as well.

 

I’ve been gearing up my Merc on SF (just started). So I’ve been checking full spec’d Mercs to see their stats.

 

Is it normal for some Mercs who have accuracy equipped, to show accuracy at only 100%?

 

I took a pick so I could show you what I mean. I’ve seen this a few times now.

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/bJEJMOw

[RiChess]

Hey Hoppin, what do you run as far as crit, mastery, alacrity and power? Have you ever experimented much with the stats just for the fun of it? When does crit end up not worth it due to diminishing returns? Used to be power had no DR point, and so people used to stack power back in 3.0 iirc. Is power the same now still?

 

For my Merc I've done 2k crit (right at DR), ~1400 alacrity (you get 3% alac from arsenal so you can hit the 1.3s GCD with 1375 alac instead of 1857), then I dumped the remainder in mastery.

 

I'm not a class expert so I won't claim that's the absolute best way, but its worked out well for me.

[Lhancelot]

For my Merc I've done 2k crit (right at DR), ~1400 alacrity (you get 3% alac from arsenal so you can hit the 1.3s GCD with 1375 alac instead of 1857), then I dumped the remainder in mastery.

 

I'm not a class expert so I won't claim that's the absolute best way, but its worked out well for me.

 

I got a question about the stats you laid out... If you hit DR on crit at 2k, I'm wondering if power would be more useful than mastery if you already sitting at the DR for crit or are you going for more crit even after the DR?

 

Thanks for sharing your stats I am still working to gear my merc DPS only 198 CXP now, so it will be awhile. But it's good to see what DR is for crit, I did not know it was 2k, and the exact cutoff for alacrity on Arsenal is really helpful too.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. I just want to comment on Arsenal merc, it's actually a lot of fun now. The amount of melting it does is impressive! It's by far the most fun DPS to play now, just as it used to be for me. I can't get into my madness sorc atm, but have been non-stop on my merc the last 5-6 days.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Lhancelot

[TrixxieTriss]

I got a question about the stats you laid out... If you hit DR on crit at 2k, I'm wondering if power would be more useful than mastery if you already sitting at the DR for crit or are you going for more crit even after the DR?

 

Thanks for sharing your stats I am still working to gear my merc DPS only 198 CXP now, so it will be awhile. But it's good to see what DR is for crit, I did not know it was 2k, and the exact cutoff for alacrity on Arsenal is really helpful too.

 

Thanks!

 

P.S. I just want to comment on Arsenal merc, it's actually a lot of fun now. The amount of melting it does is impressive! It's by far the most fun DPS to play now, just as it used to be for me. I can't get into my madness sorc atm, but have been non-stop on my merc the last 5-6 days.

 

Doesn’t mastery add to both crit stats (crit and the old surge)? I maybe wrong, I’ve not paid much attention to it with this stupid gearing taking too long.

If it does, woudnt mastery still add to the other crit stat even if you got DR on one of them?

[Talon_strikes]

I'd have to log in and check but my Merc is full 248s w/ 240 augs and his Mastery is ~7509, Crit is 1930, Alac is ~15.4%, and Acc is 5%.

 

Crit DR starts at 1800 btw, at soft I think. I only ever use ~2k crit on healers because they benefit more from Crit than Mastery.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Talon_strikes

[Hoppinswtor]

I run 1414 alac and 2091 crit. I haven't invested in 240 augs on most of my toons so those numbers will be a tiny bit higher if you are perfectly min-maxed. (Honestly the 240 augs add maybe 120 dps at most...it's not that much.)

 

I run slightly higher crit on merc because of Advanced Targeting, which buffs crit multiplier and has a very high uptime for both merc dps specs. Radley, another one of the highest parsing mercs in the game, also runs roughly the same crit rating as I do. Some other mercs I know have found success running similar stats. Everything seems to point to high crit for mercs.

 

1414 alac will take you to the 2nd tier of alacrity thanks to the 3% passive alacrity bonus in the Arsenal tree.

Edited August 22, 2018 by Hoppinswtor

[Lhancelot]

I run 1414 alac and 2091 crit. I haven't invested in 240 augs on most of my toons so those numbers will be a tiny bit higher if you are perfectly min-maxed. (Honestly the 240 augs add maybe 120 dps at most...it's not that much.)

 

I run slightly higher crit on merc because of Advanced Targeting, which buffs crit multiplier and has a very high uptime for both merc dps specs. Radley, another one of the highest parsing mercs in the game, also runs roughly the same crit rating as I do. Some other mercs I know have found success running similar stats. Everything seems to point to high crit for mercs.

 

1414 alac will take you to the 2nd tier of alacrity thanks to the 3% passive alacrity bonus in the Arsenal tree.

 

Ok great thanks for sharing this. Now just to get gears and then augs.

[Lhancelot]

Doesn’t mastery add to both crit stats (crit and the old surge)? I maybe wrong, I’ve not paid much attention to it with this stupid gearing taking too long.

If it does, woudnt mastery still add to the other crit stat even if you got DR on one of them?

 

I am not sure how much mastery gives to crit but yes, it does affect crit percentage. I am more curious if there is a DR on power, I am quite sure mastery still has a DR. Used to be power did not have a DR iirc.

[kissingaiur]

I am not sure how much mastery gives to crit but yes, it does affect crit percentage. I am more curious if there is a DR on power, I am quite sure mastery still has a DR. Used to be power did not have a DR iirc.

 

Mastery’s bonus damage is linear (no dr). The critical change (different from critical rating) in mastery does have a dr. Powers bonus damage is also graphed linearly.

[Lhancelot]

Mastery’s bonus damage is linear (no dr). The critical change (different from critical rating) in mastery does have a dr. Powers bonus damage is also graphed linearly.

 

I see, so I guess because there are no 236/240 rated pure power (overkill) augs once the proper alacrity range is reached they have to go with crit or mastery augs.

 

Does mastery DR become detrimental at a lower level than crit, is that why people tend to stack crit over mastery?

[RiChess]

I see, so I guess because there are no 236/240 rated pure power (overkill) augs once the proper alacrity range is reached they have to go with crit or mastery augs.

 

Does mastery DR become detrimental at a lower level than crit, is that why people tend to stack crit over mastery?

 

It’s simply because the damage increase is higher per point for crit/alac until you’re at/close to DR or your target number. Mastery also doesn’t give surge rating, which is vital to help make your crit rating effective.

[Lhancelot]

It’s simply because the damage increase is higher per point for crit/alac until you’re at/close to DR or your target number. Mastery also doesn’t give surge rating, which is vital to help make your crit rating effective.

 

Ok, gotcha that makes sense.

 

Appreciate you and others giving explanations on stats, thanks a lot! Not that it will make me good, but at least having stats better optimized will give me a better shot. Literally and figuratively on my merc.

[Wimbleton]

I think people are overplaying this conversation. We're talking a bout the final 250 (2 aug, 1 crystal) to 300 (3 aug) of stat.

 

APM (Abilities per minute), accuracy, positioning, target transition, proper target selection, proper AOE/cleave opportunity and resource management will make about 98% of difference in your success and these final couple hundred stats will make 2% difference.

 

Yes, its true that Crit DR starts to go into effect around 1850 crit, but its not a cliff its a very gradual change. And when you factor in that merc DPS has a near 100% uptime on a 10% surge bonus, I'm not sure that crit doesn't win out regardless of DR.

 

So putting those final few points into mastery or crit makes much less of a difference than 1) APM and 2) not missing any shots.

[Cylestat]

I think people are overplaying this conversation. We're talking a bout the final 250 (2 aug, 1 crystal) to 300 (3 aug) of stat.

 

APM (Abilities per minute), accuracy, positioning, target transition, proper target selection, proper AOE/cleave opportunity and resource management will make about 98% of difference in your success and these final couple hundred stats will make 2% difference.

 

Yes, its true that Crit DR starts to go into effect around 1850 crit, but its not a cliff its a very gradual change. And when you factor in that merc DPS has a near 100% uptime on a 10% surge bonus, I'm not sure that crit doesn't win out regardless of DR.

 

So putting those final few points into mastery or crit makes much less of a difference than 1) APM and 2) not missing any shots.

 

I tested out last night 1400 Alacrity, 2000 crit, and rest into mastery and I got about 250 DPS and a little bit of APM over my first tier alacrity. Playing with it now to get my APM up.

[Lhancelot]

Hey while some of you mercs are in the thread, what utilities do you run? Also, do you run different utilities in regs than you do in ranked? If so what do you change?

[Talon_strikes]

Hey while some of you mercs are in the thread, what utilities do you run? Also, do you run different utilities in regs than you do in ranked? If so what do you change?

For me the utilities are the same in regs and ranked PvP. Only when I switch from Arsenal to IO and back is when I change, but it's only 1 in particular.

 

When I run Arsenal I take the following:

 

Skillful:

- Afterburners (the root is an annoyance to Ops and Maras trying to run away)

- Gyroscopic Alignment Jets

 

Masterful:

- Power Barrier

- Torque Boosters (extra seconds on Hydraulic Overrides is SO helpful when kiting to heal and LOS)

 

Heroic:

- Trauma Regulations

- Energy Rebounder

 

Legendary:

- Kolto Surge

- Thrill of the Hunt (since Blazing Bolts is a key part of Arsenal's rotation, I like being able to kite and chase while using it)

 

When I run IO I take all except for Thrill of the Hunt because Unload is more or less a filler, and I swap that with Power Shield in the Heroic tree because it helps me not be interrupted while having Energy Shield active since IO's key abilities are so prone to being interrupted.