Time to merge the US servers... again. Primetime window getting smaller and smaller.

[robertthebard]

I've said nothing about server merges, I wouldn't enjoy pvp in any of those examples you mentioned, and you liking certain kind of pvp does not make you better than me, who likes different kind of pvp.

 

That's the point, though: I think it's irrelevant, because it is. It has no effect on the main game, to the point that it might as well be an addon, whereas, if they'd done anything similar to the suggestions I've made, both earlier in this thread, and a considerable amount of time back, they could have made PvP and Conquest both mean something. I'll note here that I didn't play on the hardcore PvP server in Rappelz, because the grind was so mind numbingly boring that I tended to zone out, and that could have cost me whatever gear I was using, but I did PvP on the main servers.

 

I've had to repair gear, and pets after they changed those up before I could use them for PvE. This was OW PvP too, only someone had to be flagged for it. It didn't have to be both parties eithers, so you could be up against a group that wasn't flagged with a healer on your team that's not flagged, and the other team couldn't attack your healer, unless they flagged up to do it. But the weekend dungeon sieges meant something: the winning guild could set the percentage of drops they got from everyone that ran it, and could collect the rewards from a special NPC. Profits, and every alliance I'd been in paid you if you showed up for the Time Attacks and/or the actual siege, assuming we won, anyway. Lots of risk for potentially no reward.

 

The same was true in Aion with the abyss fortresses at launch, and the later end game areas that could be sieged as well. If your faction won, there was a dungeon in the fortress you could run. I played for 4.5 years or so before I saw the inside of one of those dungeons, because we were constantly outnumbered by the Elyos, at the end of the time where I played regularly, we were outnumbered 10-1, easily.

 

So yeah, I like my PvP to mean something. That doesn't mean, despite what I've read on these forums, that I hate PvP in general, just that I don't have any use for it here, as it's implemented. By all means run those instanced duels with PvE rewards, just don't try to convince me that it's somehow relevant, or hardcore, or even remotely meaningful to the game. If you're having fun, more power to you, but it's not what I'm looking for as far as PvP is concerned.

[Friend-Referral]

the irony in your attitude of defending bad behaviors by PvPers and trashing solo PvEers in the context of your very bitter and increasingly negative and demanding posts in the forum

Coming from the poster who always trashes the PvP community every chance they get. Hypocrisy at its finest. This is why no one on this forum takes you seriously.

 

This game was developed as an MMORPG. You see the MMO part? The whole point is for a buttload of players to be online together simultaneously to participate in content whether it's PvP, PvE or RP.

 

I know it is difficult for you to wrap your arms around the fact that PvP has been the leading source (not the only source.. so don't come back with exception examples ... just the leading source) of server die-off for years now.. but it is.

Don't get it twisted. PvP as a play style was not any source of die-off for the servers in this game. Neither was PvE or RP. The die-offs were due to many things such as lack of endgame content, bugs that took months or years to fix (I bet some launch bugs are still in swtor), ability delay, rubber banding, and the decision to option up a whole bunch of servers to deal with queues, only to then have a massive amounts of ghost town serves due to the devs' naivete.

 

PvP servers.... since launch and through the period we actually had PvP servers.... ALWAYS died off first in terms of population and player activity. PvP just is not the thing in this MMO that you want it to be.. and almost 7 years in now... there is no reason to expect that to change. We all could wish it to be different, and make endless threads about it and present ideas to reverse this persistent fact... but that does not change what the player base chooses to do.

Again, playing fast and loose with the truth.

 

Remember all those servers they opened up to deal with the ques due to launch hype? Yes, some were PvP, but others were RP and many were mainly PvE. Servers of ALL archetypes died off, not just PvP first as you so try to twist it in your attempt to discredit the PvP play style and bash PvP'ers every chance you get for being oh so toxic.

 

The fact remains... every PvP server that ever existed in this MMO has died off much earlier then the roughly equivalent PvE server in the same point in time.

Fast and loose again.

 

Remember when people were walking away from the game when server populations started plunging a month after launch? .... where there was no server transfers or merges yet.. so PvPers in NA declared collectively to aggregate through rerolls on The Fatman... and declared The Fatman to be THE stable, populated, and active PvP server where all NA PvPers should play. Yeah.. and yet The Fatman did not fair well in population stability over the long term and being a PvP server.. it did not attract PvE players much. There is no Fatman anymore... it went into the dead bucket in a server merge cycle... and of course.... in 2018.. there is no such thing as a PvP server anymore.

The Fatman was basically The Harbinger but for PvP'ers mainly. The Fatman did have quite a healthy PvE population, though

 

It was not only PvP'ers conglomerating to The Fatman, either. It was dead server refugees switching there when all those new servers of all archetypes that were opened up after launch had died. In fact, there was even a guild on The Fatman called <Dead Server Refugees>.

 

The reason The Fatman did not fair well in the end is because, once all those dead servers were going to be merged, people saw a reason to go back to the characters they started with. The server was simply a focal point for the players of dead servers, essentially the characters they made there simply alts until they could go back to the original characters they started with.

Edited September 13, 2018 by ColorfulCaiques

[Lunafox]

ITA.

 

I also didn't like the way they did the mergers. They just lumped all the East Coast and West Coast servers together for the two new servers. But since everything is physically located on the East Coast, that really wasn't necessary.

 

IMHO since they knew full well that all the servers were moving to the East Coast, it would have been kinder/more player-friendly if they'd sorted the servers into "more RP/solo oriented" and "more PvP/Ops oriented" and merged them accordingly.

 

IIRC there were people on some of the smaller servers who were very upset they were going to be merged with Harbinger because that was a totally different player culture than they preferred, and there were a fair number of players who jumped over to Ebon Hawk to try to avoid that. But then Ebon Hawk was merged with at least one server with the same sort of population, and the RP community isn't what it once was, from what I have heard.

 

But yeah, taking away a West Coast server at all wasn't a swift move.

 

 

I agree, I didn't care for how things were done at all. I think they could've taken more care to give people a choice where to go based on how they like to play, but then in a few months, it would likely happen, what has historically happened, that the pvp type server would probably be empty and those that remained would be unhappy because they have no one to fight.

 

You remember correctly, there were quite a few people that were put off about being put somewhere that didn't jive with the way they like to play. Putting rpers together with pvpers is like throwing goldfish in with piranhas. There was evidence of that the way the rpers were first harrassed on SF. There would be people screaming in general that this was the pvp server and to get lost. They even went on the forums screaming that X server is the pvp one and all others should kindly ____ the hell off.

 

And yeah, I think it would go a long way to make things right if they put out a west coast server again and include the APACs there, so that people on that side of the world can actually enjoy competitive play.

[Totemdancer]

I agree, I didn't care for how things were done at all. Snip

 

You remember correctly, there were quite a few people that were put off about being put somewhere that didn't jive with the way they like to play. Snip

 

And yeah, I think it would go a long way to make things right if they put out a west coast server again and include the APACs there, so that people on that side of the world can actually enjoy competitive play.

 

Agreed. As an APAC player they really did a number on us by closing our APAC servers and moving us to the US. Not only did we get more lag, but the cultural difference was a big shock and my guild didn’t jive with it.

The US servers were so harsh, rude, aggressive, RL political and too serious compared to the Aussie servers, which were mostly laid back and friendly.

My guild disbanded soon after the merge to the US and only a handful of us stayed.

 

It killed off the rest of the APAC community with the last merge and move to the east coast. Opening another server there would be pointless as no one trusts EA or Bioware to do the right thing. All faith is gone and the people remember. I doubt many would come back.

They could probably open another APAC server and it wouldn’t get as many APAC people back as there were before the last merge.

 

They should have just left Satele Shan on the west coast and merged the pvp servers and some pve servers with it.

Made Star Forge RPpve and left it on the east coast. They wouldn’t have lost as many players and everyone would have nearly been happy. I’m sure we would have more players than we do now and this thread wouldn’t even exist.

[Friend-Referral]

what has historically happened, that the pvp type server would probably be empty and those that remained would be unhappy because they have no one to fight.

Again, PvP servers in this game have never died first. In fact, you could say a lot more PvE servers died compared to PvP (and maybe even RP servers combined) because the vast majority of new servers opened were PvE.

Edited September 15, 2018 by ColorfulCaiques

[Totemdancer]

Again, PvP servers in this game have never died first. In fact, you could say a lot more PvE servers died compared to PvP (and maybe even RP servers combined) because the vast majority of new servers opened were PvE.

 

It depends on the servers. Pvp servers died before Harbinger and a few pve(rp) servers on the east coast. If you look at it from that perspective, pvp servers did die first.

 

I know the apac pvp server was the only server to partially die in the apac region before they merged them all to the US. The PvE server had more players 24/7 than the current servers do.

 

Nobody on Dalbora wanted or needed to be merged with the US. The other 2 servers could have been merged with Dalbora and made it one super server.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Totemdancer

[jimmorrisson]

 

the latest merge we had was done 100 times better than the first merges we had back around 2012.

 

hahahahhaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahaha

[annabethchase]

hahahahhaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahaha

 

He's right though, from the perspective of a PvE player. For PvP players, it's debatable. For Asian players it was tough.

[Kiesu]

hahahahhaahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahaha

You're welcome to tell me even one thing they did better -12

He's right though, from the perspective of a PvE player. For PvP players, it's debatable. For Asian players it was tough.

It was no issue for PVP player either, and certainly better than leaving the servers as they were. Back then we still had world pvp which was nonexistant due to pre-merge desertion, the instanced pvp didnt come with any merge. I can't remember from the top pf my head anything that changed for PVP due to -12 merge.

[Lunafox]

Again, PvP servers in this game have never died first. In fact, you could say a lot more PvE servers died compared to PvP (and maybe even RP servers combined) because the vast majority of new servers opened were PvE.

 

Actually, PVP servers have died first. I've been here since early access, and the pvp servers were always the first to become ghost towns. The first server I played on was Lord Calypho EU and it was Rp-pvp and was one of the first to die. I hated the pvp and followed my hubby to Krayt Dragon PVE NA. People didn't enjoy playing with psychopaths that would kill lowbies and camp quest areas, so those servers emptied right quick. PVE and RP servers typically did better than pvp.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Lunafox

[IoNonSoEVero]

Actually, PVP servers have died first. I've been here since early access, and the pvp servers were always the first to become ghost towns. The first server I played on was Lord Calypho EU and it was Rp-pvp and was one of the first to die. I hated the pvp and followed my hubby to Krayt Dragon PVE NA. People didn't enjoy playing with psychopaths that would kill lowbies and camp quest areas, so those servers emptied right quick. PVE and RP servers typically did better than pvp.

 

I have not been here since the beginning but when I signed up, the friend who got me into SWTOR very carefully explained which servers I'd want to stay away from if I didn't want to be griefed, for sure.

 

The PvP instances on the PvE servers, and the areas like Outlaws' Den are usually ghost towns too, from what everyone's said. In fact one of the things people are being told right now is to go to the PvP instance when there's too much of a bottleneck for quests in the PvE instance...since nobody will be there.

[Seireeni]

The PvP instances on the PvE servers, and the areas like Outlaws' Den are usually ghost towns too, from what everyone's said. In fact one of the things people are being told right now is to go to the PvP instance when there's too much of a bottleneck for quests in the PvE instance...since nobody will be there.

 

Why wouldn't it be like that? The game engine can't handle big scale open world pvp, and occasionally dueling people you happen to run into isn't what most pvp players have in mind when they think "fun". Especially not since some classes (deception assassin, concealment operative) have a considerable advantage in that.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Why wouldn't it be like that? The game engine can't handle big scale open world pvp, and occasionally dueling people you happen to run into isn't what most pvp players have in mind when they think "fun". Especially not since some classes (deception assassin, concealment operative) have a considerable advantage in that.

 

No reason it wouldn't be. Just adding it because it bolsters the fact that the PvP servers died first. Most people in the game aren't playing (or interested in playing) open world PvP either on its own server or its own instance so those areas did die first or aren't as crowded.

Edited September 16, 2018 by IoNonSoEVero

[Kiesu]

No reason it wouldn't be. Just adding it because it bolsters the fact that the PvP servers died first. Most people in the game aren't playing (or interested in playing) open world PvP either on its own server or its own instance so those areas did die first or aren't as crowded.

You can look at any mmo ever and instanced and/or formed PVP is always wildly more popular than any form of spontaneous world pvp. It's a silly argument.

We were originally promised formed world pvp in large scale by BW. People subscribed to that idea. It failed and got removed because crap engine. People moved to instanced PVP. How is this still not common knowledge

Edited September 16, 2018 by Kiesu

[Lunafox]

You can look at any mmo ever and instanced and/or formed PVP is always wildly more popular than any form of spontaneous world pvp. It's a silly argument.

We were originally promised formed world pvp in large scale by BW. People subscribed to that idea. It failed and got removed because crap engine. People moved to instanced PVP. How is this still not common knowledge

 

Actually, I'm not arguing anything. I'm stating a fact about this game. The pvp servers were the first to die off. Period. Pvp might be more exciting in other games, but not this one and it's the plain truth, as unpalatable as it might be for some people, it's true of this game, that the pvp servers died first. That's history. People can try to re-write it all they want, but that won't make it true.

[Seireeni]

Actually, I'm not arguing anything. I'm stating a fact about this game. The pvp servers were the first to die off. Period. Pvp might be more exciting in other games, but not this one and it's the plain truth, as unpalatable as it might be for some people, it's true of this game, that the pvp servers died first. That's history. People can try to re-write it all they want, but that won't make it true.

 

I agree. However, claiming it was because

 

People didn't enjoy playing with psychopaths that would kill lowbies and camp quest areas, so those servers emptied right quick.

 

Is just false. There are several reasons to why pvp servers started dying before pve and rp ones, claiming it's because pvp community was just too toxic serves no one.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Seireeni

[Andryah]

Actually, I'm not arguing anything. I'm stating a fact about this game. The pvp servers were the first to die off. Period. Pvp might be more exciting in other games, but not this one and it's the plain truth, as unpalatable as it might be for some people, it's true of this game, that the pvp servers died first. That's history. People can try to re-write it all they want, but that won't make it true.

 

^^ This is a correct assessment.

 

The reasons "why" can be debated in endless circles and people can play the perpetual blame-the-studio game as well.. but the core assessment that for SWTOR...PvP servers die off at a faster rate then PvE servers is simply not debatable for this MMO. Cause can be debated.. but the effect is not debatable.

 

Even before they pulled the PvP server rule set and replaced it with PvP instances in game.... the remaining PvP servers were ghost towns. There is a reason they did away with the PvP servers completely... there were none left alive.. even though PvE and RP servers in most cases were still active, some very active.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Andryah

[Kiesu]

Even before they pulled the PvP server rule set and replaced it with PvP instances in game.... the remaining PvP servers were ghost towns. There is a reason they did away with the PvP servers completely... there were none left alive.. even though PvE and RP servers in most cases were still active, some very active.

Yes. Since our promised world pvp didn't get delivered, majority of PVP population was now interested in instanced PVP only and since instanced PVP is no different in PVP or PVE server, naturally people moved to bigger server to get more frequent pops. I don't know why this is so hard for you guys to understand. The server type doesn't matter in the slightest.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Kiesu

[Lunafox]

I agree. However, claiming it was because

 

 

 

Is just false. There are several reasons to why pvp servers started dying before pve and rp ones, claiming it's because pvp community was just too toxic serves no one.

 

Well, I'm 'people' and my hubby and son are 'people' and we didn't like dying to jerks camping quest zones. Our two family friends that played didn't like it. Both quit, and my hubby decided to move to pve server to try that first, and me and the boy followed. It was pretty toxic and unpleasant, so it's not false at all. Pvp community was very toxic in the early days and continued to be until the populace start fading. Then it was like, be human, or have no one to play with.

[Lunafox]

^^ This is a correct assessment.

 

The reasons "why" can be debated in endless circles and people can play the perpetual blame-the-studio game as well.. but the core assessment that for SWTOR...PvP servers die off at a faster rate then PvE servers is simply not debatable for this MMO. Cause can be debated.. but the effect is not debatable.

 

Even before they pulled the PvP server rule set and replaced it with PvP instances in game.... the remaining PvP servers were ghost towns. There is a reason they did away with the PvP servers completely... there were none left alive.. even though PvE and RP servers in most cases were still active, some very active.

 

Thank you

 

And exactly so. People have different reasons for why they died, for me and my family &friends it was toxicity. Others have their own reasons and arguing which one is that real cause accomplishes nothing.

[IoNonSoEVero]

IMHO one can't act like griefing on the PvP servers/instances isn't a thing that has deterred people from playing there. Only reason? Of course not. Primary reason? No way to know. Is it there and does it turn some people off? I think there's no way to deny that.

 

Even most PvPers frown on that behavior, so saying it exists isn't slamming every PvPer. It's slamming those who felt the need to do things like camping at nodes, ganging up on people way below their level, waiting until they respawn and hitting them again, etc

 

I personally will not set foot in a PvP instance even if it appears empty because of the possibility of griefing/being randomly attacked and how upsetting that is to me personally. While I know that most people don't have my level of anxiety, IMHO it's not a stretch to think that others don't want to be attacked while questing and thus stay out of PvP zones.

[Totemdancer]

IMHO one can't act like griefing on the PvP servers/instances isn't a thing that has deterred people from playing there. Only reason? Of course not. Primary reason? No way to know. Is it there and does it turn some people off? I think there's no way to deny that.

 

Even most PvPers frown on that behavior, so saying it exists isn't slamming every PvPer. It's slamming those who felt the need to do things like camping at nodes, ganging up on people way below their level, waiting until they respawn and hitting them again, etc

 

I personally will not set foot in a PvP instance even if it appears empty because of the possibility of griefing/being randomly attacked and how upsetting that is to me personally. While I know that most people don't have my level of anxiety, IMHO it's not a stretch to think that others don't want to be attacked while questing and thus stay out of PvP zones.

 

Most pvpers do frown on griefing. But getting randomly attacked isn’t griefing. There is a massive difference between them.

 

I preferred the old pvp system on pve servers where you could turn on your pvp flag. It’s wasnt perfect or anything. It could have been made so you couldn’t flag people who didn’t want to be flagged. I really wish they had fixed that system.

Edited September 17, 2018 by Totemdancer

[IoNonSoEVero]

Most pvpers do frown on griefing. But getting randomly attacked isn’t griefing. There is a massive difference between them.

 

I preferred the old pvp system on pve servers where you could turn on your pvp flag. It’s wasnt perfect or anything. It could have been made so you couldn’t flag people who didn’t want to be flagged. I really wish they had fixed that system.

 

Oh, I know. It's more like the people who would kill someone and then wait for them to respawn and kill them again, over and over again. Or the ones that traveled in mobs to kill low level players.

 

I will be honest and say I prefer the PvP being in the warzones and a totally separate instance so those who don't want to be around it don't have to. If there were just flags I think it would be too easy to come across random fights and get distracted, or get people heckling you to turn on your flag the same way they have duel spammers.

[Totemdancer]

...or get people heckling you to turn on your flag the same way they have duel spammers.

 

I never came across this in the 5 years playing before 5.0

Edited September 17, 2018 by Totemdancer

[IoNonSoEVero]

I never came across this in the 5 years playing before 5.0

 

Good to know - but considering the people I've encountered who send constant duel requests faster than I can even put them on ignore and the ones I've met who send 5 or 6 group invites in a row I think it's not out of the realm of possibility.

 

I still think it's best to have PvP as its own thing separate from PvE and let people go to the PvE areas and instances if they want to play that way, and let PvE have its own PvP-free space.