returning player, what are the tiers now?

[misterfelix]

The tiers for the dps. Please mention not only the class but spec too

[Wimbleton]

100% depedent on the player. Praast just came back and has absolutely horrid gear and has been out damaging in 100% of games.

 

Hard to make a list without more factors.

 

The most worthless dps class imo, lethality op, can still put out a lot of dmg.

 

The popular classes right now are Sniper, Jugg, Mara and Sorc (lightning).

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

The tiers for the dps. Please mention not only the class but spec too

 

If you are looking for statistical information regarding the DPS performences of the various specs [which I think is what you are asking for], you can get the general position of DPS potentials here.

 

http://parsely.io/parser/stats

 

This is statistical information only.

 

The DPS spec with the lowest DPS ceiling can still beat someone playing the spec with the highest DPS ceiling, play skill and understand of the specs involved are always the most telling attribute of performance.

 

Most PVPers don't measure DPS in the correct manner, it's simply less important in PVP as it is in PVE as their are no DPS checks to be concerned about and rotations can be more difficult to maintain [sort of like it's harder to maintain rotations in NiM Operations as opposed to SM Operations with less difficult mechanics]. PVPers tend to regard DPS in terms of total damage, not damage per second. The maximization and maintanence of the highest levels of DPS are not emphasized in PVP, so they take less stock in optimal DPS performance [that's not an insult, it's just a different set of needs that don't require maximization of DPS in PVP as is required more for progression raiding at the higher difficulty levels].

 

In simpler more general terms, if you are asking what does the best in PVP overall, that's easy, Mercs, Snipers, and Fury Marauders. They are the top dogs of PVP in this meta. I wouldn't put Fury Marauders quite in the same cateogory as Mercs and Snipers as they are not ranged and they lack heals and the over-abundance of heals and strong defensives play a large part in what make Snipers and Mercs so powerful in PVP. Fury Marauders have great DCDs, but they can't handle battles of attrition like Mercs and Snipers can because Mercs and Snipers are self sufficient heal wise and Marauders must rely on the presense of a healer for heals and there isn't always a healer on every team [and where there is, they aren't always skilled/ tend to the needs of everyone.]

 

It's very much a ranged meta. You will find a ton of Mercs and Snipers in PVP as they are the 'FOTM' classes and that 'month' has been going on for over a year now heh. Sorcs and Juggs are very popular as well but are generally not considered as being 'OP' as Mercs and Snipers are.

 

Obviously, stealth classes are extremely effective in PVP and would be considered strong as well, but less so than the top 3. Their utility and unique abilities make them particularly suited to many objectives you find in PVP.

 

Regarding 1v1's however, Operatives are the Kings and Queens of 1v1s, Assassins are quite good at that as well. The stealth and CC array make the strongest and most able in 1v1s, as makes sense.

 

That said, any spec can perform at high levels when played by a skilled enough player. Some are just more suited to the environments and the challenges inherent to PVP play.

 

Hope that helps some.

Edited June 25, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[yellow_]

5.0 is the mara sniper merc expansion

[Mournblood]

The tiers for the dps. Please mention not only the class but spec too

 

This smacks of a "FotM" question. If you want to play FotM, nothing wrong with that, imo. It's your dime, your time, as I say. But you would be better off just doing a little research on the forums here. You'll arrive at a more unbiased answer than what is so often opinion laced with personal agenda.

[misterfelix]

If you are looking for statistical information regarding the DPS performences of the various specs [which I think is what you are asking for], you can get the general position of DPS potentials here.

 

http://parsely.io/parser/stats

 

This is statistical information only.

 

The DPS spec with the lowest DPS ceiling can still beat someone playing the spec with the highest DPS ceiling, play skill and understand of the specs involved are always the most telling attribute of performance.

 

Most PVPers don't measure DPS in the correct manner, it's simply less important in PVP as it is in PVE as their are no DPS checks to be concerned about and rotations can be more difficult to maintain [sort of like it's harder to maintain rotations in NiM Operations as opposed to SM Operations with less difficult mechanics]. PVPers tend to regard DPS in terms of total damage, not damage per second. The maximization and maintanence of the highest levels of DPS are not emphasized in PVP, so they take less stock in optimal DPS performance [that's not an insult, it's just a different set of needs that don't require maximization of DPS in PVP as is required more for progression raiding at the higher difficulty levels].

 

In simpler more general terms, if you are asking what does the best in PVP overall, that's easy, Mercs, Snipers, and Fury Marauders. They are the top dogs of PVP in this meta. I wouldn't put Fury Marauders quite in the same cateogory as Mercs and Snipers as they are not ranged and they lack heals and the over-abundance of heals and strong defensives play a large part in what make Snipers and Mercs so powerful in PVP. Fury Marauders have great DCDs, but they can't handle battles of attrition like Mercs and Snipers can because Mercs and Snipers are self sufficient heal wise and Marauders must rely on the presense of a healer for heals and there isn't always a healer on every team [and where there is, they aren't always skilled/ tend to the needs of everyone.]

 

It's very much a ranged meta. You will find a ton of Mercs and Snipers in PVP as they are the 'FOTM' classes and that 'month' has been going on for over a year now heh. Sorcs and Juggs are very popular as well but are generally not considered as being 'OP' as Mercs and Snipers are.

 

Obviously, stealth classes are extremely effective in PVP and would be considered strong as well, but less so than the top 3. Their utility and unique abilities make them particularly suited to many objectives you find in PVP.

 

Regarding 1v1's however, Operatives are the Kings and Queens of 1v1s, Assassins are quite good at that as well. The stealth and CC array make the strongest and most able in 1v1s, as makes sense.

 

That said, any spec can perform at high levels when played by a skilled enough player. Some are just more suited to the environments and the challenges inherent to PVP play.

 

Hope that helps some.

 

no, i'm not about numbers. im about competetive dps classes. I dont like Snipers (that's not a mobile class) and Mercs (because of their overheat)

 

I prefer to play stealth class. Operatives are the best in 1 on 1? Do you mean Concealment? and what about assasins, they are worse?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

no, i'm not about numbers. im about competetive dps classes. I dont like Snipers (that's not a mobile class) and Mercs (because of their overheat)

 

I prefer to play stealth class. Operatives are the best in 1 on 1? Do you mean Concealment? and what about assasins, they are worse?

 

To be fair, with regard to the stealth classes, I'm speaking only from what I have read and experienced. I don't play those classes personally and some of the info is more along the lines of "common knowledge".

 

I think it is safe to say that Operatives are the undisputed Kings and Queens of 1v1.

 

I would think that you could word it that way, with regard to Assassin's being worse than Operatives 1v1, but that's an academic distinction and not mean to imply that Assassins are bad at it. I would put Assassin as next in line after Operatives being very strong 1v1. Both classes obvious have stealth and an abundance of CCs [Operatives have more and some of them are better in effect]. Stealth against non-stealth get to pick the terms and have the advantage of surprise even after the combat is initiated.

 

With Operatives it is my understanding that concealment is the more apt spec for PVP as it has burst. Burst tends to do better with regard to getting actual kills. Lethality has much stronger DPS but, that's dots playing into things to a degree. Again, I am not an expert on the intricacies involved, only the generalization view.

 

Another notable difference between Operatives and Assassins is that Operatives have much stronger heals than Assassins, Assassin do have better DR and combat DCDs as it defensive aspects. Assassin's can get an 'extra life' but not in the traditional sense. They can cloak out, which brings them out of the 'combat state' and heal themselves to full with the class out of combat heals, while their opponents remain in combat state this granting the health benefit as well as once again being able to pick their attack form on the opponent they were opposing. It's a bit different than 'in combat' heals like most of the other DPS specs have. That said, the only class who has worse heals than Assassins are Marauders [as they have no self heals at all].

 

All things considered I'd think that Operative would be the stronger stealth class overall and thus is why it is better than even Assassins in 1v1. In fact, there are some people who will go so far as to say Operatives are too good and some think they should be nerfed in some manner.

 

Consideration in your decision should also include what your feelings on role switching may be and off role ability usage . If you'd like to play a spec than can either be a tank or a DPS, Assassin is the way to go [plus they have a skank tank option], of you'd like to play a class than can be DPS or Healer, Operative would be the better choice.

 

As DPS go, Assassins also come with the ability to guard and taunt off and potentially combat rezz role, DPS operatives have off role ability in self heals, off heals, cleanses and in combat Rez.

 

Both are technically melee based. Operative basic attack however is ranged [30].

 

Again I'm no expert on these classes so there would be others who would perhaps have some better considerations, but I think most of above is relatively correct from an out side POV. How hard they are to play comparatively, that I cannot answer.

 

A final consideration - Assassins are force users [they use double bladed lightsabers] and Operatives and not force users and use Rifles and knives.

 

Given they are both highly represented in PVP in terms of numbers, they are both popular and effective as a stealth class. Considerations of personal play style also play into choice. They both bring good utility for PVP concerns. I don't think you could go wrong with either choice.

 

Hope that helps some.

Edited June 25, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Morteistno]

[quote=WayOfTheWarriorx;9616577

In simpler more general terms, if you are asking what does the best in PVP overall, that's easy, Mercs, Snipers, and Fury Marauders. They are the top dogs of PVP in this meta. I wouldn't put Fury Marauders quite in the same cateogory as Mercs and Snipers as they are not ranged and they lack heals and the over-abundance of heals and strong defensives play a large part in what make Snipers and Mercs so powerful in PVP. Fury Marauders have great DCDs, but they can't handle battles of attrition like Mercs and Snipers can because Mercs and Snipers are self sufficient heal wise and Marauders must rely on the presense of a healer for heals and there isn't always a healer on every team [and where there is, they aren't always skilled/ tend to the needs of everyone.]

 

Snipers self sufficient in terms of heals????? I think you are thinking of a few patches ago really,

Snipers have quite limited healing, Very much below mercs, operatives, juggernauts, but above marauders and powertechs. I would also be tempted to say below assasins as in a way they have heal to full when stealth out but that's up for debate.

 

I play all classes and yes mercenaries are definitely one of the top classes (and heat issues are rare for them nowadays) as they have very good defenses, are ranged, quite mobile and have a lot of insta-cast attacks with procs. So much much harder to los than f.i. a Marksman Sniper who is not mobile at all and whose attacks can be los'd much more easily.

 

I think sniper is a decent class and engie sniper in good hands can be very annoying particularly but I really don't think they are OP anymore since the nerf to shield. Tell me honestly... what would you take away from current snipers to make them balanced (according to you then) without nerfing them in the ground?

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Snipers self sufficient in terms of heals????? I think you are thinking of a few patches ago really,

Snipers have quite limited healing, Very much below mercs, operatives, juggernauts, but above marauders and powertechs. I would also be tempted to say below assasins as in a way they have heal to full when stealth out but that's up for debate.

 

I play all classes and yes mercenaries are definitely one of the top classes (and heat issues are rare for them nowadays) as they have very good defenses, are ranged, quite mobile and have a lot of insta-cast attacks with procs. So much much harder to los than f.i. a Marksman Sniper who is not mobile at all and whose attacks can be los'd much more easily.

 

I think sniper is a decent class and engie sniper in good hands can be very annoying particularly but I really don't think they are OP anymore since the nerf to shield. Tell me honestly... what would you take away from current snipers to make them balanced (according to you then) without nerfing them in the ground?

 

Heals. It's suppose to be a pure DPS class. Marauders are a pure DPS class and don't have heals. Snipers also didn't have heals coming from 4.x. Now, you see Snipers healing for 700K.

 

That's on top of all their other crap.

 

I don't doubt that you don't feel like they are OP, but most non-Fury Marauder melee's do think that. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, you may even think it makes perfect sense for one pure DPS class to have heals and the only other one doesn't. All the CC/CC immunity, AOE 50% slows that can be maintained forever, have no CD and can be reapplied at will, rolls and root, knockbacks and leap immunity, and their control over melee are some of the reasons most melee don't see it as you do.

 

There is a rather sizable portion of PVPers who feel that Mercs, Snipers, Skank Tanks and Fury Marauders are too strong, Mercs and Snipers being the ones people consider to be the most so. A ton of people play them, thats why they are everywhere, but because so many people play them, some of the people you see saying "They are fine" are people who are playing them and like them not being "fine".

 

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to to see it that way, I am merely explaining the nature of the view points as I understand them to be from the 700000 gazillion threads about it throughout 5.x. If you are interested in delving a bit deeper at the view points, simply use the search option using mercs and snipers or some version of those keywords to bring up the many threads that have spoken about it, you will find a great deal of information on the viewpoints expressed on it since 5.0 dropped.

[Morteistno]

Heals. It's suppose to be a pure DPS class. Marauders are a pure DPS class and don't have heals. Snipers also didn't have heals coming from 4.x. Now, you see Snipers healing for 700K.

 

If you follow this logic also DPS Juggs, DPS Operatives, DPS Sorcerors, DPS anything should not have any heals at all. You could even argue stealth should be out as well as it is very often exactly that in pvp a heal to full.

 

So why are you fine with all of the above having heals and specifically snipers not? And the heals snipers have are still much worse than the heals of most dps classes. 10% every 20 seconds with roll. So it's not like a huge amount and to make optimal use of it you will have to roll on cooldown which is hardly advisable.

 

Then you have on top of that 1% per second during 20 seconds with balistic shield, and 2% every 3 seconds when in cover.

 

Note that all of these require utility points. Without utility points snipers have zero heals.

 

The 700K number you mention is extremely rare you can do the math yourself. It can only occur in very long matches.

 

The specific mention to 4.1 makes me think you are just nostalgic off the days when snipers and mercs were a dead easy kill for melee. I can see a valid argument that mercenary heals are too strong but for snipers no.

 

 

 

That's on top of all their other crap.

 

I don't doubt that you don't feel like they are OP, but most non-Fury Marauder melee's do think that. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, you may even think it makes perfect sense for one pure DPS class to have heals and the only other one doesn't. All the CC/CC immunity, AOE 50% slows that can be maintained forever, have no CD and can be reapplied at will, rolls and root, knockbacks and leap immunity, and their control over melee are some of the reasons most melee don't see it as you do.

 

Once again the pure dps class is nonsensical. You may want to look at how bioware determines the proper damage potential for a class. Secondly I suspect that your gripe is not so much with snipers in general but with engineer snipers specifically. Yet the nerf you propose would impact them all. If you were to argue for a nerf on plasma probe - fi a cooldown on it - I could see your point, argueing to remove all heals is nonsensical to me unless you want them to go back to their pre 5.0 status. I.e. a dead easy kill, especially in arenas.

 

Btw: Mauraders may have no heals though they have one utility with very limited heals if we are going to be correct, but they do have waay more damage mitigation than snipers, a (granted poor mans version of) stealth, very high mobility, instant attack anything (no interrupting or los),obfuscate aso. So if you want heals taken away from snipers then take half of the damage mitigation away from marauders and give them some nice castbars on their biggest attacks.

 

 

 

There is a rather sizable portion of PVPers who feel that Mercs, Snipers, Skank Tanks and Fury Marauders are too strong, Mercs and Snipers being the ones people consider to be the most so. A ton of people play them, thats why they are everywhere, but because so many people play them, some of the people you see saying "They are fine" are people who are playing them and like them not being "fine".

 

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else to to see it that way, I am merely explaining the nature of the view points as I understand them to be from the 700000 gazillion threads about it throughout 5.x. If you are interested in delving a bit deeper at the view points, simply use the search option using mercs and snipers or some version of those keywords to bring up the many threads that have spoken about it, you will find a great deal of information on the viewpoints expressed on it since 5.0 dropped.

 

And from my point of view all of these people are either:

 

- specifically talking about engie spec

- thinking of snipers pre the nerf to shield (where yes I would say before that nerf they were very, very tanky while shield was up)

- never or very rarely play a sniper themselves to experience from the other side how 'tanky' and 'self sufficient in healing they really are' <sic>

- or just nostalgic of the good old days pre 5.0 when snipers were absolute garbadge in terms of survivability.